PBK wood and canvas canoes

[Jez Graves]

Hi
For old times sake I am looking to build a PB Teal canadian canoe. When my Dad was at school he built a PB kayak and canoed it down the river Wye. As I am getting into canadians I thought I would build the open version so the two of us could relive his youth!
I've managed to get a copy of Percy Blandford's book 'Canoes and Canoeing' and I've ordered the plans from the internet. I was wondering if anyone had any experience of building one of these or similar and if they have any advice. I am not particularly skilled in the woodworking sense but have done a bit and am happy to take my time to get it right.
Any help would be most welcome.
Thanks
Jez

[Snowghillie]

I have an PB canoe that has to be recovered. It was given to me to restore by the brother of a chap who had built it in the 50s or 60s. I wonder if it is a Teal, I will check the dimensions. It is my next project after restoring a Tyne Double.

[kev4]

video demonstrating skin-on-frame toughness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU

[Jez Graves]

Thanks for that - seems its going to be worth having a go for definite! Hope the canoes are as strong as the kayaks!
Still waiting for the plans, but fingers crossed
Jez

[DougR]

Skin on frame!


Read about it

[kev4]

That's a work of art!

[willswood]

I've managed to get a copy of Percy Blandford's book 'Canoes and Canoeing' and I've ordered the plans from the internet.

And from where did you get these plans, old fruit? I've looked all over but can only find the PB open canadian type, whereas I would like one of his decked ones

[bothyman]

Try here.

>> http://www.clarkcraft.com/

[Jez Graves]

Mine came from clark craft. Sent an email/web order but they didn't respond for ages. Once I rang them everything was fine and they were very efficient.
Good luck.
Jez

[Obscured by Clouds]

How about one of these:



http://gaboats.com/boats/robroy14.html

[bikemec]

My Dad built a pbk when we were kids,

from the book I built this a pbk 55 I think



and then a sailing version



Can't rember much about the fullsize build, other than Dad used heavier wood than needed we think the frame is still outside a cottage in Donegal

[Voyager]

Dad used heavier wood than needed we think the frame is still outside a cottage in Donegal

.........by now it probably is a cottage in Donegal!

[mike1942]

Hi...I know some of the above post are gaining moss but did anyone build a PBK Canoe or re-skin there old one.......kind regards Mike .....

[drifter]

I have just joined this forum through a search on pbk canoes in Google and was directed to this particular topic. I bought an old Percy Blandford Kayak earlier this year and have been very pleased with it. I have a web site of my experiences but I am unable to give you the address!!! I suppose, if any of you are interested enough, you could ask me for the address privately.

I realize that this site is mostly concerned with Canadian canoes but many of the places I visit could easily be easily explored using either style of canoe and we probably share many of the same problems (and joys!)
Harry

[Sparky]

Welcome, Harry. I'd be interested in hearing more about your PBK, even if it is a kayak. I have [I think] an unskinned PBK which I've had for many years. I'm contemplating moving it on because I can't see me having the time to sort it out, but I'd like to be convinced otherwise!

Mike

[drifter]

Welcome, Harry. I'd be interested in hearing more about your PBK, even if it is a kayak. I have [I think] an unskinned PBK which I've had for many years. I'm contemplating moving it on because I can't see me having the time to sort it out, but I'd like to be convinced otherwise!

Mike

Hi Mike,
I have some information about the canoe on my website at:
http://website.lineone.net/~luichart..._highlands.htm
If you want to know any more just let me know. I also have a Dagger Charleston touring kayak which is a similar size to the PBK and, to be quite honest, there is not much difference between them except for the price!
Harry

[Sparky]

Thanks for the link Harry, looks interesting, I'll check it out in more depth later.

Mike

[mike1942]

Hi Harry...I built a PBK 20 in the 50s with my father and a great deal fun for the next 20 years...but now in retirement have started again these canoes survive..I have just purchased a frame from an old scout hut in Birmingham which The canoe must be nearly sixty years old over the last six months I have aquired two other PBKs for a trip with my children I say children they are in there 20s ...we are recovering all of them heavy weight PVC for the hull and breathable canvas tops ..what is really good about this is these kayaks have stood the test of time ..and the great pleasure of getting them out and using them again......Mike

[mike1942]

Hi Harry..I have just looked at your links the Highlands are stunning can you canoe anywhere or are there restrictions of any kind....kind regards mike

[Sunworshipper]

For anyone looking for PBK (or any other Percy Blandford design info), I may be able to help on account of being lucky enough to be married to his grand daughter. Percy's wealth of knowledge (as well as designs) is a trove of treasure and I am sure he would be willing to share it with all who are interested. He may also be willing to help in the sourcing of any missing plans, designs, instructions, etc but given that he is now 97, your patience will be appreciated!

Please feel free to email me direct should you need anything & I will ensure Percy receives it.

[Aero]

What a fabulous first post.

Thanks Sunworshipper.

Dave

[mike1942]

Hi Sunworshiper.....that is really fantastic to hear about Percy Blandford he has given so much pleasure to so many young people very kind regards Mike

[bikemec]

Thanks for your very kind offer Sunworshipper,

The only thing I'd loike to pass on is a thanks for the amount of joy he has given my family and me, one of his designs built by my Dad was my introduction to canoe sport,

I'm going to try a bigger model of a teal and possibly an RC sailing model of a kayak, would build a real size one but can't untill the summer due to a lack of build space

John

PS I've just got a copy of his book on garden furniture so some of that will be made soon too

[drifter]

Hi Harry..I have just looked at your links the Highlands are stunning can you canoe anywhere or are there restrictions of any kind....kind regards mike

HI Mike, I believe that "Legally" you can canoe anywhere you wish (Right to roam). In practice you have to be a bit more diplomatic and respect other people's use of the countryside (Anglers, stalkers etc). The main problem I find is actually getting your canoe into the water. I drove along Loch Ness a couple of weeks ago looking for launching sites and they are few and far between. Another loch that I would like to canoe is Fionn Loch (near Loch Maree) which would be a real test of the access laws. I don't think you would be allowed to drive there and although Letterewe estates like to boast of their willingness to allow access I wonder how they would react about portaging over the hill to Loch Fionn.
Harry


Harry

[drifter]

Hi Sunworshipper,
It is fantastic news about Percy and wish him well. I am 65 now and he has provided me with a lot of inspiration and enjoyment throughout my life and is still doing so! I have the plans for a PBK 14 sitting on my desk as I write. I think the younger generation miss so much because they no longer build their own canoes but buy IPKs instead. (IPKs are what I call "Imitation Plastic Kayaks"!)
I would love to see the BBC make a documentary about Percy.
Harry

[Thysville]

Hi Sunworshiper.....that is really fantastic to hear about Percy Blandford he has given so much pleasure to so many young people very kind regards Mike

Have never got around to building one but have paddled many that others have made.

It is interesting how many of my older books always refer to the PBK.

[mike1942]

Hi Harry..thank you for the information if I ever make to the Highlands I will buy you a wee dram or two......kind regards Mike

[mike1942]

Hi in the 1940s and earlier there seemed to be canoe designs about but the folding canoes at the the time were very expensive but what Percy Blandford did in the rather tough post war years was make the building of kayaks and other craft accessable to the guy in the street to schools and scout groups sea cadets..these activities that father son & daughter could do on limited budgets there must be countless of stories of canoeing scout camps,family holidays,that have been made possiable being able to make your own craft ...the pleasure that gave me for nearly 25 years and now because of those experiences in the past at 66 I am starting again canoeing and there was not any doubt in my mind when I started again it had to be a PBK Kayak.........thank you Percy for giving me so much pleasure and now I will be passing this on to my children......all the very best Mike...

[sinbad115]

Wow what a lot of info/history , i have just bought a 14ft wood canvas pbk from ebay (£59). Its in great condition just dusty ,as has been on an office roof for years. Was a bit ignorant about my purchase so thanks all for above posts. Im really impressed with it so far , tho ive decided glen the dog aint getting in this one (jaggy feet) Its just to nice to risk it !
Was going to paint it .... any tips on what paint without bursting the bank or maybe it deserves only top quality paint ? Will post a few picks shortly when i get a new digi camera ...emm last one got wet dont ask lol
Ian

[mike1942]

Hi Sinbad...did you buy the one from Scotland on Ebay if it is the one it looked in pretty good condition it was covered in pvc if it is any acetone based paint you cannot use it will melt the pvc enamel based should be allright but if the surface is good it is best to leave it you will add weight the original canoe that i built nearly now 50 years ago was all covered in canvas and then treated to make it waterproof a few years later h/d pvc came along and we covered the bottom with grey pvc and the top with 15oz canvas this allowed the inner part to breath through the canvas and keep the wood in good condition all the best with your kayak/canoe........Mike

[mike1942]

Hi Sinbad...just had a thought why dont trim Glen toe nails back and he can enjoy the water to .....but what i have done when you want to put a lot of camping kit use some thin plywood and fill either side of the duckboard in the cockpit and he wont be able to put his feet throgh the bottom you have some stunning canoeing areas in Scotland.......all the best Mike

[drifter]

Was going to paint it .... any tips on what paint without bursting the bank or maybe it deserves only top quality paint ?

Ian

There are a lot of instructions on covering this boat at:
http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~acsrrrm/kayak/
If your canoe is canvas covered then, if you think the canvas is still good, you can use an oil based paint. It really all depends on how old the canvas is and whether it has deteriorated. You might want to think about re-covering it but I would play about with it first. It might be good for a year or so and a cheap oil based paint from B&Q would do. If the canoe is covered in PVC then just leave it without paint.
Harry

[sinbad115]

Hi Sinbad...did you buy the one from Scotland on Ebay if it is the one it looked in pretty good condition it was covered in pvc if it is any acetone based paint you cannot use it will melt the pvc enamel based should be allright but if the surface is good it is best to leave it you will add weight the original canoe that i built nearly now 50 years ago was all covered in canvas and then treated to make it waterproof a few years later h/d pvc came along and we covered the bottom with grey pvc and the top with 15oz canvas this allowed the inner part to breath through the canvas and keep the wood in good condition all the best with your kayak/canoe........Mike

Yeah Mike it was on ebay in scotland, not too far for me to nip across for. Thanks for tips, i'll give it a paddle or two more before i decide whether to paint or not to paint.
Also agree im lucky to be in scotland , tho i would nt think devon is a bad spot either cheers sinbad

[kernowpaddle1]

Hey there guys...great to see people together chatting about PBK kayaks...I was given one several years back, and have been busy renovating it ever since, between other jobs!...here it is:



It is around 16 and a half feet long, and seems quite happy with two people in it!...Could it be a pbk 20?...Anyway, I have finished sorting out the hull, and have noticed now that I have turned it so the cockpit is uppermost, that the wood along the tops of the frames is slightly rotten, and that the fore and aft piece of wood that holds the middle of the deck canvas up has gone!...I found a bit of it loose in the boat, completely rotten through!...is there any way that I can replace these without taking the deck canvas off?....

Also, I was wondering if anyone still has plans for a PBK that would suit a large 16 stone bloke and all his camping kit, as I would like to build one from scratch!...I would also be interested to know if there is anyone in the Devon/Cornwall area in the UK that would like to meet up for a paddle, as I havent been paddling it for long, and could do with a confidence boost! I have a fiancee and a two and a half year old, and we all go out in a big sit on top kayak as a family, but I have always been drawn to wooden boats myself, and would love to compare other peoples boats to mine to get other ideas, to try and make my boat the best that it can be! Cheers for now guys!

[kernowpaddle1]

hang on!...apparently i need to have made 2 posts or more before I can post pics!........

[kernowpaddle1]

here they are!!!........


http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...kayak/mine.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...yak/mine-1.jpg

[bikemec]

I managed to get a copy of one of Percy's books with plans for several boats including a single kayak and the teal, I'll post the title and stuff tomorrow,

The plans for the models I built came from the same book, but a friend had lent it to me

got my copy through Abe books

[kernowpaddle1]

hi mate...yes, I have just managed to get the book which i think you may be refering too...canoes and canoeing...just starting to wonder if replacing the deck canvas might be the way forward...it would mean that i could then inspect all of the wood just below the cavas that is there now, replace the piece that goes from the front of the cockpit to the bow, and get a new canvas on there too!...is there anyone out there that has skinned a kayak before that would come and give me a hand doing it...or maybe i could bring it to you?....Satisfaction of helping to preserve someones boat, and a beer or three in exchange!!!

Bikemec - is the boat in your first pic (the pbk 55) the finished article?...i love the see-through look of the deck....once the canvas is tacked down and wetted to finish the stretching, dont you have to paint it too protect and strengthen it?...are there paints that can give a see through effect?

Also - as I am on a budget, I am struggling to find a 15 oz canvas that is wide enough and the right price. I found a 15 oz canvas that was cheap enough, but it was only 37 inches wide. Randomly, I have found a 9.5 oz canvas from the same company that is much wider and a cheap price!...Is 9.5 oz canvas too light? is it likely to tear when put upside-down on a car? cheers!!...and sorry for all the questions!!!

[mike1942]

Hi Kernowpaddle 1...welcome it is a pbk 18 you have the 15ozs canvas is best if you take water over the top you want a stout canvas ....the 37" width should be allright the beam is only 32" with 2" inches either side for the side fastening canvas can be be pulled as tight as possiable the rotten wood problem if you do not want to replace the top canvas take of the rubbing strake and just take out the copper tacks a quarter down the side of the kayak and you should be able to relace the timber by peeling the canvas back retack when finished and this should save you sripping the whole lot off i will e mail some canvas suppliers i am just moving from Devon back to nearer the Thames..if i can help in any way please let me know....regards Mike...

[bikemec]

Hi Kernow,

just checked and yep same book, the first model is the finished boat but don't forget it's only 24" long I covered it in modelers tissue and dope like the balsa planes

I have a friend who got a sea kayak built like an inuit boat but covered in canvas they soaked in some kind of epoxy for a near see through but very tough skin I'd love to say I had a deep knowledge of these boats but I was about 10 when Dad built ours, I remember he covered it in PVC and we had it in the living room (via the window) to get it warm enough to stretch the PVC

If i can help let me know

[mike1942]

Hi Bikemec...the material i think they use to get that see through effect is old aircraft covering that is full size aircraft and then dope it.... it comes in white and then clear dope as in the model it goes into the fibers an creates a transparent effect .....the american name for this covering is Ceconite 101 it might have a different name over here but i bet it will be expensive.... when 12oz/15oz canvas cost about £6.00 aprox a metre run coloured canvas seems to be the best bet with 18oz pvc canvas for the hull which is very strong the same material that curtainsider trucks are covered in .....kind regards Mike

[drifter]

http://website.lineone.net/~luichart..._highlands.htm

I also have a set of plans for a 14.5 foot single. If you are thinking about changing the canvas then I would not recommend PVC. I think they have changed the manufacturing process or material in modern PVC. I found that people who make tarpaulins have canvas and PVC.
Harry

[mike1942]

Hi Drifter ....the canvas/pvc is the same as they use on curtainsider truck sides it has a form of canvas bonded in i do agree there was some years ago a larger amount of material in the old pvc/canvas but this is about £10.00 to £15.00 a square meter but it is very strong there is a lighter pvc/canvas that is half the weight and price but personally i would not recommend it ........with proper just canvas material on the top so the wood can breath about 15 oz......have you been on any more trips in Lochs...kind regards Mike

[creativeglenn]

Oh no guys I feel gutted.
I bought one of these off ebay for a tenner maybe 3 years ago purely to study it.
It sat in the garden until a month ago and ive chopped it up for the fire!
However I have a sailing version I bought off ebay for rather a lot more that had the skin removed and then covered in ply to make it rigid.
It flys I can tell you and is for sale although needs a bit of varnish.
Get in touch for pics ect if interested IM based in Stockport near Manchester.
Looking for around £400

[creativeglenn]

Hi Drifter ....the canvas/pvc is the same as they use on curtainsider truck sides it has a form of canvas bonded in i do agree there was some years ago a larger amount of material in the old pvc/canvas but this is about £10.00 to £15.00 a square meter but it is very strong there is a lighter pvc/canvas that is half the weight and price but personally i would not recommend it ........with proper just canvas material on the top so the wood can breath about 15 oz......have you been on any more trips in Lochs...kind regards Mike

Do you have a link to any usefull material by any chance please as I fancy making one?

[drifter]

Do you have a link to any usefull material by any chance please as I fancy making one?

Hi Creativeglenn, I can't really help with any of the materials but I do have a set of plans which I could sell to you.

Mike, I went a couple of weks ago to Loch Bad a ghaill and then Loch Lurgainn but found the two protages quite difficult on my own. The next day I went to Bottle Isle in the Summer Isles and found that trip to be a long paddle (I think I am getting too old for this!) I don't like to write about these trips as I am using a kayak and this website is really devoted to Canadian Canoes. I can't really find a website catering for touring kayaks.

[kernowpaddle1]

hey guys...as you will see I have be messing about with pbk's for a while now, but am having to move from cornwall to the cotswolds, so cant take them all with me!...I am open to offers, and all it needs is re-decking and one or two very small easy patch repairs on an otherwise great condition hull. The canvas seems to be in very good condition. Its a 14ft version, with lots of room, and can be picked up with one finger!...pm me with offers, cheers!

[kernowpaddle1]

by the way, the black marks inside the hull are not holes, but leaves!!

[mike1942]

Hi Harry..sorry i did not reply earlier fighting with computers and a new broadbanband connection i dont think this forum is that purest about your particular mode of transport on the water after all it is the experience and your trips in in the Highlands are pretty unique after all we could all paddle on a log and have the same type of experience a bit more tricky to stow the gear but you see what i mean.....kind regards Mike

[bumtrinket]

Hi I've started a Percy W Blandford appreciation group over on facebook. If you are on facebook please join.

Percy designed dozens of great canoes and kayaks and introduced thousands of people to canoeing through his popular books on the subject.

We hear from his granddaughter that he has written his memoirs and I for one can't wait to read them!

Don't want to pinch any traffic from this site, but it would be great to get some pictures of Percy's designs up!

[mike1942]

Hi i have been a fan of PBK canoes since i was 11 years old and as i am 67 now the interest has not diminshed i quite agree about not taking traffic away from this site all the members here i have found have been very helpfull and kind i have owned a wooden Canadian canoe but i still go back to the PBK design and i fortunate to own in varies condition 4 PBK designs PBK 20,22,18.10 the 20 was rescued from a scout hut near Birmingham just the frame and the canoe is nearly 60 years old and is bieng recoverd this month and hopefully will be on the Thames in July this year kind regards Mike QUOTE=bumtrinket;273610]Hi I've started a Percy W Blandford appreciation group over on facebook. If you are on facebook please join.

Percy designed dozens of great canoes and kayaks and introduced thousands of people to canoeing through his popular books on the subject.

We hear from his granddaughter that he has written his memoirs and I for one can't wait to read them!

Don't want to pinch any traffic from this site, but it would be great to get some pictures of Percy's designs up![/QUOTE]

[mike1942]

[QUOTE=mike1942;273634]Hi i have been a fan of PBK canoes since i was 11 years old and as i am 67 now the interest has not diminshed i quite agree about not taking traffic away from this site all the members here i have found have been very helpfull and kind i have owned a wooden Canadian canoe but i still go back to the PBK design and i fortunate to own in varies condition 4 PBK designs PBK 20,22,18.10 the 20 was rescued from a scout hut near Birmingham just the frame and the canoe is nearly 60 years old and is bieng recoverd this month and hopefully will be on the Thames in July this year kind regards Mike hi again what is the name of your group on facebook i think there might be a need for a PBK website if your keen but i would still like to remain a member of this one as well to share ideas and experiences and new places to canoe around this country and abroad do you own a pbk canoe yourself ....kind regards Mike =

[mike1942]

Hi Kernowpaddle 1....I apoligise for not e mailing a supplier of canvas but i was moving in Feb at the time from Devon to Berkshire and things got a bit hectic i beleave you have moved to the Cotswolds i have a supplier on the M5 just north of Bristol they stock h /duty curtainsider material for the hull and 15oz canvas for the deck and they seem vary helpfull the 15oz for the deck is 91cms (37") and a metre run £4.20 per metre in a light blue/dark blue... by the way if you want a paddle on the thames anytime i hope to have a pbk 20 that i amin the process of bringing back to life have covered and ready in late june early august......all the best Mike