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Thread: Hypocrisy?

  1. #1

    Default Hypocrisy?

    This is a true statement from me no lies and I'm still looking for answers? And not getting any? Would like to hear your views.

    Hypocrisy or what? Banned from coaching by the BCU (British Canoe Union including Canoe England) no right of appeal, no hearing, no convictions and no reason given yest I am banned even from my local clubs.? The letter and phones calls to the clubs just said "He is not allowed to coach"?
    Then yesterday I get letter asking me to renew my membership in MAY???

  2. #2
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    Seems to contravene all notions of natural justice! Under what circumstances did you hear of your ban? Have you really no idea why the BCU imposed this sanction?
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  3. #3
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    Without knowing the details. Few will be able to comment.

    If this is a lapsed membership, then just rejoin - if it is more, then...

    As far as I know current policy is to allow only 3 years of lapsed membership to accrue before some kind of full re-qualifying. Their rules!

    A few centers are now taking 'current practice' as their line, alongside any current or past level of accredited competency. Don't know about clubs.

  4. #4

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    Sounds very tyrannical, and I would think that legally they must inform you of the reasons for the ban.
    Of course you can go down the road of human rights, that seems to cover all kinds of things, and you could probably get legal aid.

  5. #5

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    well I had been coaching as a new level one for nearly 2 1/2 years before going for level two just to gain a wider range of experience, then trained and passed my level 2 the next few months I was coaching as a level 2. Then I get a letter asking to explain a conviction when I was 14/15 which I received for wounding. Now this was set in a domestic situation and occurred after many years of alcohol and physical abuse by my father. Then one day my parents were fighting I walked in the room saw him throw a pregnant woman across the room and that is all I remember. I was told later that I had stabbed him with a crucifix (mother collected them). Anyway I was convicted of wounding 30 years ago. They tried to use that saying I might snap again? So got nacro involved who said that that was illegal and not relevant to banning me. The next thing I hear is that they are concerned that I gave a sweet to a child (at school) and that I had lost a job at another school (Part time work and within the 1 month trial period). None of which relates to coaching paddlesports or has resulted in me being referred to the ISA in fact I have a totally clean record for working with children and have a Offsted recommendation as being suitable for working with children. This has made no difference to the BCU who still Banned me. It appears that I have no rights and they can do this? Innocent man hung is a term that comes to light. That's it so far and for the record the only people allowed to ban you from working with children, vulnerable adults and adults is the ISA (Independent Safeguarding Authority).

  6. #6

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    It is tyrannical and can get legal aid but no solicitors want to take on the case, but will if I pay privately and as one firm told me if you have money you have your rights. Human rights is next but you have to exhaust all other avenues...............but I wonder if I am the only one the BCU have done this too.

  7. #7

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    At relearner no the originally letter stated I am banned from coaching at any centre or club in the UK. This is final and no right of appeal the words of Mark Williams-Thomas. I am allowed to caoch at one Centre Cobnor Activity Centre but work is seasonal and I can only work if they have work, which they don't this year. So I can't apply for jobs nor can I go a head with setting up my own business in coaching?

  8. #8
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    Suggest you have a look at this link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...nt-Convictions

    Is your situation determined because of the need to get a BCU Enhanced CRB check..? I'm not sure of the validity of the BCU requiring their own CRB for coaching awards... but certainly worth taking this further with Consumer Action Group or Citizens Advice.

    Best of luck.

  9. #9

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    No I have an enhanced CRB check which was done through the BCU no problems, plus I have been working with children and vulnerable people and in youth work for over 30 years so it's not the CRB. The CRB was issued before this all started?

  10. #10

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    Will check out the website though thank you wilderness canoe.

  11. #11
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    Good luck with your inquiries and efforts. I have never heard of anything comparable in the States, where the American Canoeing Association sponsors the bulk of the trainer certifying and instructing. I would have expected someone who was being cut out of coaching to have been given a hearing before a committee, at least if the grounds for dismissal were not flagrantly obvious.

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    BCU is a joke.

    I know they have good instructors but a canoeing bureaucracy is as contrary to what canoeing means to most people as you can get.

    The BCU would want Bill Freekin' Mason to take a flat-water course and wear a crash helmet before letting him teach a clinic.



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    As a member of the BCU*, a new Level 2 coach and chair of a successful club, I have to say when it comes to the coaching scheme, the BCU have not so much shot themselves in the foot as repeatedly fired a bazooka at their own faces. Unfortunately, they cannot hear the sound of their members pleading them to stop above the noise.

    Just a sample of the problems for a club with amateur coaches:

    • Despite the BCU advocating different learning styles in their syllabus, anyone entering the scheme has to crawl up a long ladder of qualifications to get anywhere. Experienced people who could take the assessment directly are not allowed to do so and have to follow the path. Most of them choose not to;
    • Whilst it is important that the BCU takes child protection seriously, there is serious overkill. The legislation for criminal record checks is for employers. The BCU does not employ the people it issues qualifications to and probably has no legal right to ask for, never mind insist on, a criminal record check;
    • The direct time commitment just to reach Level 2 is disproportionate an puts many peopleoff. Take up of the qualification is poor and the BCU is starting to fund courses to keep the numbers up. In the case of my club, we have invested 5,000 of grant money, additional club funds and personal money, but only half of our coaches are at Level 2. Whilst the scheme has improved those who went through it, we could have up-skilled all of our coaches directly for far less than we have had to spend;
    • Despite the investment of time, the Level 2 remit is inadequate for coaching on a river. The remit states huge and the resulting remit is inadequate. The remit allows the coach to operate in a sheltered water environment.
    • Our club operates at Symonds Yat which is a mecca for beginners, but not within remit for Level 2. We cannot sensibly use either the coaching scheme or the river leadership awards as necessary qualifications to carry out the normal business of the club. If the cost to get to the necessary Level 3 to coach there is 3,000 at commercial rates, then we need to attract 100 members to pay for this. 8 of them can be coached at BCU ratios, meaning the other 92 have to watch.
    • Level 3 is no longer a possibility for amateur coaches due to the time commitment and cost. However competent we may become, we will never have the time or money to achieve this qualification as amateurs.
    • The dual craft approach is nonsense. Time is wasted on coaches courses for people to catch up and train in their secondary craft. People who have do not want to coach in both disciplines are put off the scheme.


    Solving these problems is simple. Not solving them will result in the collapse of the scheme in the medium term as numbers continue to decline.



    *Actually I am a member of Canoe Wales. The ridiculous situation is that I am really happy with Canoe Wales, their approach to Access, and many other aspects of their service. However, they are constrained by the centralised approach for coaching. There are many in England who share this view, but are prevented from joining in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

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    Meanwhile; anyone want to go canoeing?
    Lloyd

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  15. #15

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    Neat summary of my own issues with the coaching scheme Mr Shan.

    We had a flurry of L3s when the old system faded out but since then have had very few coaches training. We are a busy club and could do with some additional coaches. I have been toying with the idea of getting someone to train up a group to the old L2 syllabus.

  16. #16
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    I think part of the issue with the coaching scheme is that BCU have followed suit (through choice or not I don't know) with others SPORTS*. As an example, I am a L1 hockey coach and attained this through experience playing the game (2 years) as well as 3 days coaching / assessment. This allows me (under the supervision of a L2 coach) to coach any age / skillset in this SPORT meaning that I can contribute to the club, which I want to do.

    As I understand BCU Coaching, a L1 coach can't take a group unsupervised so a L2 is required - in my hockey scenario, a L2 is required otherwise England Hockey (or any other applicable sports body) won't provide insurance cover - is it for the same reasons within BCU? In order to get my hockey L2, it would be reasonably straightforward with a number of 'coaching' sessions followed by assessments. Back to canoeing, the fun stuff then starts with both canoe & kayak certificates being required even if you only ever wanted to coach one discipline. IMHO, this is kind of like having the same coach qualification for rugby union & league or field hockey & ice hockey.

    In the 'good old days' it was more complicated, but easier to understand ! I was Senior Instructor (Kayak) meaning I could lead groups on water up to Grade 3; I was Instructor (Canoe) meaning I had to work with an SI and could assist leading groups on water up to Grade 3; I was Level 3 (or 4, can't remember) Canoe Polo meaning that I could coach to a club / regional standard. But all of these were targeted at the respective disciplines rather than a 'broad brush' approach - I never coached competitive open canoe or 'recreational' polo as that just doesn't make sense. I know that the teaching of recreational & competitive is split within BCU, but the different disciplines still remain.

    My days of competitive canoeing are long gone and don't have any club affiliation to worry about but from the little reading I've done, it does seem that the changes in BCU will harm the SPORT and the hobby.

    Just my 2c and slightly off the original topic.


    * the reference to SPORT in capitals is deliberate as canoeing is one of those rare activities that can be both a sport & a hobby / pastime.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezwater View Post
    Good luck with your inquiries and efforts. I have never heard of anything comparable in the States, where the American Canoeing Association sponsors the bulk of the trainer certifying and instructing. I would have expected someone who was being cut out of coaching to have been given a hearing before a committee, at least if the grounds for dismissal were not flagrantly obvious.

    I would agree there was no hearing before the child protection panel or any other panel. When we 1st met they came to a centre I was working at to discuss my CRB. Fine then they said as before I can only coach there no where else, which contradicts their ban then when challenged through a legal charity they said we haven't banned him, yet the person who banned me is sending out letters that I am banned? I agree if I had been absusive or a threat to children I could fully understand ! But I haven't and getting no answers?

  18. #18

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    I whole heartedly agree with you guys the BCU have to some extent made it impossible for local clubs to push training for coaches and most clubs I know are river based. I have been paddling about 10/15 years and know the rivers around me quite well. But the BCU say I should be a level 3 I am an expereinced and seasoned paddler if I know the waters and I'm safe then those with me will be. How often do the BCU come out and paddle your rivers?

  19. #19

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    A level 1 can take a group of 6 on sheltered waters or small enclosed and in swimmimg pools but also under the guidence of a L2.

  20. #20

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    The BCU lost the plot when they started chasing money for the olympics.............and gave up on the paddling (recreation) community, I do not class myself as a sports coach although I am, rather I see myself as a coach who coaches good safe paddling skills on a good foundation, then it's upto the individual if they want to pursue a sports career in paddling once they have the basic's. The cost to clubs in training coaches is stupid now and volunteer coaches cannot afford the fees. Unfortunately in this country we don't support low level sportspeople with training and funding and we should?

  21. #21

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    On the CRB issue it is actually down to the employer or the club to make the decision on weather your allowed to coach or not, it is not the responsiblility of the BCU they do not employ you as a coach. The only people allowed to ban you from working with children is the Independent Safe guarding Authority, if the BCU, Club or employer as concerns they should report you to the ISA who investigate and have a hearing where you present your case.

  22. #22

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    I agree wildeness canoe you shouldn't be required to have a CRB check until qualified up until that point you are working and training under supervision, it may be a good idea to have one anyway just to be aware of what the procedure is and then your ready to coach once qualified. The crazy thing is I have got running at the moment 4 other enhanced CRBs 2 for schools?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    BCU is a joke.

    I know they have good instructors but a canoeing bureaucracy is as contrary to what canoeing means to most people as you can get.

    The BCU would want Bill Freekin' Mason to take a flat-water course and wear a crash helmet before letting him teach a clinic.

    you been reading BCU personal emails?
    Last edited by KeithD; 24th-April-2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason: fix quotes
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    Completely off topic....but I wonder if Bill Mason ever muttered the words "dynamic risk assessment"

    I hope you can get it sorted funkymonkey.

    I have mixed thoughts on the coaching system. As a UKCC Level 2 I concur the amount of paperwork and theory vs the "lets just get on with it and go canoeing" is vastly disproportionate in favour of the paperwork. It has become very difficult to convince coaches to complete training to level 2 as I found when running coaching at my club. We had very experienced canoeists who just could not be bothered with the amount of supplementary paperwork. Luckily we can still allow them to impart their knowledge, providing of course a level 2 is watching them.

    In terms of coaching awards and requirements, it gets silly. I have now done three various child protection modules cause the goalposts keep changing. This plus all the various other courses cost time and money.

    Thankfully, I can just go out canoeing with mates now and then to drag me away from coaching world otherwise as much as I enjoy teaching others, Im sick of the amount of box ticking and list making that the new syllabus has become.
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    can you guys not just do your thing without the BCU?
    seriously: sounds to me like they're a private club more or less, so what's their power over those who don't join, and don't care about them?
    you want to teach people caneoing; can you not do that without BCU blessing, based on your skill and reputation?

  26. #26

    Default Hypocrisy

    I received a call from the chairman of my local club (whom I've been with for years) saying the BCU rang them and just said I was not allowed to coach? Then I received a letter about a week later from the BCU saying I was not allowed to coach anywhere?
    They say I have to notify them of where I'm going and if I intend to coach but I am banned from coaching. As previously stated I have committed no offence towards children or vulnerable adults been a youth leader for 30 yrs work in local school and local children's charities am covered by Enhanced CRBs so am stunned. Plus I don't think I should notify them of my movements they are implying I am or have done something wrong, my view is that if I agree to their terms I am admitting that I have something to hide and am guilty? So I will not the whole procedure was tyrannical and one sided. I have days where I really wish I had done something seriously or stupidly wrong then I could understand all this?

  27. #27

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    I can paddle but I started to set up my own business and to hand out qualifications you need to be a registered coach if I did that then the BCU will not recognise them, the BCU is the governing body of paddle sports, but from what I can find out a lot of the staff who they employ are not paddlers so really have no idea?

  28. #28

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    To Lowlander, I can paddle privately and really should, but I started to set up my own business and to hand out qualifications you need to be a registered coach if I did that then the BCU will not recognise them, the BCU is the governing body of paddle sports, but from what I can find out a lot of the staff who they employ are not paddlers so really have no idea? So in all this hooha I have lost money in business set up and work....

  29. #29

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    I would look at the discrimination angle If it were me.
    It sounds to me as if some allegations have been made, however informal and without informing you or giving you the right to defend yourself which is out of order.

    Just to correct one thing though; someone stated that only the ISA can ban someone from working with children. Not quite true.
    Any associated club of any sport can conduct its own hearings and investigation and take a decision to ban you for life from working with children within their association.
    This ban may well appear on list 99 of the enhanced CRB but as it's not a conviction it wouldn't appear anywhere else. If your enhanced CRB shows additional info (such as x,y club banning you), then nobody else would dare touch you with a barge pole anyway.

    It can be frustrating, but I know from personal experience (I wasn't the accused by the way ) that when allegations are made of an individual, and a police investigation concludes that there is NOT enough evidence to secure a conviction, then they will drop the case. This doesn't mean the individual was innocent though. The respective association can then hold their own investigation and do not require the same level of evidence to take action and if necessary ban you.

    I actually agree with and support this. After all, an enhanced CRB simply shows that at the time it was printed, you haven't been convicted etc etc. It isn't a guarantee that the holder is 100% safe around children.

    I am a member of liberty but I also believe that the protection of the many (children) should outweigh the rights of the few. By that I mean that if there's an allegation made about an individual from a number of sources, but no evidence to support it; Ban him/her! Possibly an innocent person is being banned but on the grounds of probability he/she must be banned to protect others.

    Not suggesting that's the case here btw, just my opinion on the way these things happen.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkymonkey View Post
    To Lowlander, I can paddle privately and really should, but I started to set up my own business and to hand out qualifications you need to be a registered coach if I did that then the BCU will not recognise them, the BCU is the governing body of paddle sports, but from what I can find out a lot of the staff who they employ are not paddlers so really have no idea? So in all this hooha I have lost money in business set up and work....
    Ask yourself this; "Is the benefit of training to acquire a sheet of paper or to acquire knowledge and skill?" They are two different things. If the training you offer provides the latter it is of value. The sheet of paper is pretty meaningless...as is the "governing body" that issues it.

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    cant you use the freedom of information act to obtain any information the bcu is holding on you? it strikes me that if you want to challenge what they are saying, then first it would be handy to know exactly what that is. a request might also wake someone up to the fact that if they are holding or spreading false information about you, then they might end up getting hit in the pocket. foi requests arent expensive to make and i dont think there are any reasons in law why they cant be compelled to show you what they have on their files.
    sod work, im off for a paddle.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnr View Post
    cant you use the freedom of information act to obtain any information the bcu is holding on you? it strikes me that if you want to challenge what they are saying, then first it would be handy to know exactly what that is. a request might also wake someone up to the fact that if they are holding or spreading false information about you, then they might end up getting hit in the pocket. foi requests arent expensive to make and i dont think there are any reasons in law why they cant be compelled to show you what they have on their files.
    Good point. Also, they have to register with Data Protection and you are entitled to see any and all info held in relation to yourself whether held on computer or paper.

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    Just to expand so we know how to help you what was the sweet with the kid thing? have they got hung up on that for some reason?

    Dave

  34. #34

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    Hi funkymonkey.
    This really must be a nightmare for you. Apart from the Freedom of Information act, the BCU must surely come under the Data Protection Act. (apologies here Bucephalas, I had been writing this and lost connection) My understanding is that you can demand any information they have on you, and without having to pay them for the information. Some may say I am being a bit cynical here, but could there be a business competitor near you making malcious allegations to the BCU? Someone with friends in the BCU maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucephalas View Post
    I am a member of liberty but I also believe that the protection of the many (children) should outweigh the rights of the few. By that I mean that if there's an allegation made about an individual from a number of sources, but no evidence to support it; Ban him/her! Possibly an innocent person is being banned but on the grounds of probability he/she must be banned to protect others.
    I really can't let this one pass. I understand the need to protect people, but that also includes protecting people from "allegations" with no evidence. How many malicious people could use this view to get an innocent party banned? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? How many teachers have been falsely accused and had their careers ruined? Using your logic, they should all have been banned anyway!
    Last edited by sc0ut; 23rd-April-2012 at 10:28 PM. Reason: delayed connection
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  35. #35

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    I did say when an allegation is made from a number of sources. Not one or two disgruntled individuals who know each other.

    From my time as a serving police officer I could quote a number of occasions where the police could do little, but as a father of two girls who are heavily involved in a sport (which I won't name as its a small world), I have known a coach who had allegations made against him by a couple of parents. The association investigated as did the police. Police could do nothing, the association banned him for life. He then went on to abuse youngsters in a club of a different sport.

    The needs of the many outweight the rights of the few!

    The world isn't perfect unless you're living in a fools paradise.

    My sister is also head of HR for a blue chip company and they regularly sack people after allegations have been made without evidence but using the grounds of probability looking at the individual, their lifestyle and habits etc.
    That's the real world.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucephalas View Post

    From my time as a serving police officer,

    The needs of the many outweight the rights of the few!


    That's the real world.

    what a bizarre situation we are in then if thats how the police think. im sure that you will know then that from a statistical point of view, by far and away the majority of abuse cases are as a result of abusers within or close to the family of the child. following your logic, it would make a case for the removal of all children from their familys as thats the most likely source of abuse!
    sod work, im off for a paddle.

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    It's time someone created a "BRCA" British Recreational Canoe Association to train 'real canoeists' and tackle access interests of Recreational Paddlers in the UK and leave all this sport nonsense where it belongs. May as well use your membership money where it counts instead of financing the Olympics just so you can have a canal permit.
    Lloyd

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    It's time someone created a "BRCA" British Recreational Canoe Association to train 'real canoeists' and tackle access interests of Recreational Paddlers in the UK and leave all this sport nonsense where it belongs. May as well use your membership money where it counts instead of financing the Olympics just so you can have a canal permit.
    Well said Lloyd, that's something that needs looking at, perhaps we should have a new thread to discuss how it could be done.


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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucephalas View Post
    From my time as a serving police officer I could quote a number of occasions where the police could do little, but as a father of two girls who are heavily involved in a sport (which I won't name as its a small world), I have known a coach who had allegations made against him by a couple of parents. The association investigated as did the police. Police could do nothing, the association banned him for life. He then went on to abuse youngsters in a club of a different sport.
    A lack of logic when applying a specific example to the generality of the point. Let's consider exactly the same preamble but revise the last sentence to 'He then went on to lead a blameless life and behaved like a saint. But he was still banned.

  40. #40
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    I am suddenly sooo glad that I dont do clubs or associations.

    I hate politics.

  41. #41
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    paddling is great fun, but some folk always want to collect badges and courses. clubs and associations by their definition tend to attract the sort of people who want to run clubs and associations and the sort of people who want to be in clubs and associations. ive never had any canoe training, and from the stuff i hear on this site about training, courses and the way people seem to feel undressed without a list of 'qualifications' i think i'll stick to my own blissful ignorance.
    sod work, im off for a paddle.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkymonkey View Post
    To Lowlander, I can paddle privately and really should, but I started to set up my own business and to hand out qualifications you need to be a registered coach if I did that then the BCU will not recognise them, the BCU is the governing body of paddle sports, but from what I can find out a lot of the staff who they employ are not paddlers so really have no idea? So in all this hooha I have lost money in business set up and work....
    yes i understand. but look at it this way: what does the BCU provide that you actually need for your business?
    it's not the "qualification", that's just a random piece of paper issued by some club. it's the trust that this piece of paper provides your customers, be it legitimate or not.
    if you can find a way to make your customers trust your abilities to give them appropriate training, you don't need the BCU any more.

    this can be done in various ways. some ideas:
    - build up a reputation; can take a long time but is the most natural way to do this. can be done through building a base of happy customers, or by gaining credibility through publishing your own accomplishments to frame yourself as an 'expert'... or maybe some other ways... be creative
    - create a common standard with like minded coaches (open canoe coachin association - OCCA?) that is based on actual needs as agreed between yourselves
    - bite the bullet and join an established association that issues coaching standards (BCU - or are there existing alternatives?). think laterally: canoeing as a competition sport seems to be covered by the BCU but as a recreational outdoors activity could maybe fit under the umbrella of some other, outdoors oriented organisations?

    just because they are the first or only organisation applying a coaching standard right now, doesn't mean it has to stay this way.

  43. #43
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    The BCU don't really care about their coaches. As an active coach I would expect any problems with my status to be reported to me.

    I had an incident with them earlier this year. It was not too serious but never the less, my coach status was suspended.

    The BCU did not tell me.

    A colleague contacted the BCU to confirm my qualifications for my role as their inspector and occasional coach. He was told that I was not a coach. He alerted me and I contacted the BCU by 'phone.

    The BCU said that they have no record of my "child protection" status and that I do not have a current CRB with them.

    I had sent in records, previously, of the "child protection" training I had completed and the CRB for my local council youth service. They could not find these records, they had lost them. There was no apology and little help to get reinstated.

    It took 2 months for me to regain my coaching status.

    I have decided to maintain my coach status to help others get involved in canoeing but when I require further updates to continue as a coach, I will retire and resign from my membership to the BCU and CE. They are not worth the money I pay them.

    If a more pro-active canoeing organisation could be formed that would take the concerns of recreational canoeing more seriously, I would join and support them.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  44. #44

    Default

    The BCU style themselves as a 'governing body', they want to govern, I get the impression they don't really want to be helpful.

    A few years ago, our local coaching panel organised a forum evening, everyone who sent in a slip advising the CPD time spent was sent a letter advising that this was insufficient and that they were not up to date even though they were already up to date before the meeting.
    Last edited by Adrian Cooper; 25th-April-2012 at 09:26 AM.

  45. #45
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    I am pleased I just paddle for leisure and pleasure now. I might start my own recreational canoe organisation I will need to think of a snappy name for it .
    Mitch

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    It's time someone created a "BRCA" British Recreational Canoe Association to train 'real canoeists' and tackle access interests of Recreational Paddlers in the UK and leave all this sport nonsense where it belongs. May as well use your membership money where it counts instead of financing the Olympics just so you can have a canal permit.
    We should now all add to Lloyds reputation for the most sensible suggestion ever made on this forum.
    Paul
    Just goin with the flow

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    BCU is a joke.

    I know they have good instructors but a canoeing bureaucracy is as contrary to what canoeing means to most people as you can get.

    The BCU would want Bill Freekin' Mason to take a flat-water course and wear a crash helmet before letting him teach a clinic.



    (puts shotgun barrel in mouth...)
    Ditto. Can't imagine joining any kind of canoe club.
    The perfect canoe -
    Like a leaf on the water

  48. #48
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    I'm a dedicated no star paddler. Fairly new to canoeing but had done a fair bit of kayaking, dedicated no star paddler in that too (on purpose.)
    I thought it was strange at first when a coach told me a particular stroke I was doing was "banned!" I thought, eh, not best practice maybe, but banned??? Aye, dead on. I don't do it that way anymore, simply because a friend showed me a better way of doing the same thing, after explaining why what I was doing was not great.
    Next experince was when I was helping out a friend in a pool session, he asked me to do a hand roll, just to see if I still could. (It had been maybe 15 years since I last did it.) I did a few when a coach approached me and told me that way was "All wrong." OK, every days a school day and all that, so I asked him to show me his way. He replied, "Uh, um, I can't do them. Aye, dead on.
    I'll continue doing my own thing, and for now I'm happy being NOT REMOTELY QUALIFIED!!!

  49. #49

    Default

    Back to the original point. I think I’ve already said that I’m not sure the BCU has any right to ask for CRB checks on the basis that they are not normally the ‘employer’ or even ‘deployer’. That aside, I suspect that those in a position to actually check what comes through from the CRB are like anyone else in charge of ‘health and safety’, it’s not about risk management, it’s about risk avoidance. They see the record, identify a past issue and immediately take the safest possible action, ‘strike them off’. Of course what you think might happen is that they would do more investigation, ask one in for an interview, try to get a better understanding of the case in hand. I suspect that none of this has happened, they have no powers to investigate beyond what they have and given the history will be sure that an interview would not yield any unbiased answers. The sanction option is easy and ‘justifiable’ to anyone who asks.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre girard View Post
    Can't imagine joining any kind of canoe club.
    You'd like our canoe club Pierre, we try to concentrate on enjoying ourselves.

  51. #51
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    If anyone's interested I'm setting up a rival body to the BCU. Its called Fredster's Unofficial British Canoe Union, or FU-BCU for short. There will be qualifications but these will be self-awarded and be judged on the following criteria.

    FU-BCU Level 1. Person that derives pleasure from looking at canoes (online or in the flesh) and is entertaining the idea of owning one.
    FU-BCU Level 2. Person that owns a canoe and gets out there and enjoys themselves.
    FU-BCU Level 3. Person that has introduced others to canoeing, be they family or friends.

    I'm a FU-BCU level 2, just awarded myself the award a few mins ago actually - if I have a mo later on I may make a nice certificate on the poota.
    ___________________________________
    Something profound.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredster View Post
    FU-BCU Level 1. Person that derives pleasure from looking at canoes (online or in the flesh) and is entertaining the idea of owning one.
    FU-BCU Level 2. Person that owns a canoe and gets out there and enjoys themselves.
    FU-BCU Level 3. Person that has introduced others to canoeing, be they family or friends.
    Nice system, Fredster! I think, at the moment, that I would qualify as a FU-BAR paddler - at every level!
    Juvanile delinkwit, vaguely faffing around with a pair of pliers. Du skal ikke tro at du er bedre end mig!

  53. #53
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    FU-BCU Level 1. Person that derives pleasure from looking at canoes (online or in the flesh) and is entertaining the idea of owning one.
    Ooh I like the sound of that, a canoe fetishist, that's me alright. Now where did I put that sandpaper and dust mask!!!


    Jon.
    The SotP Wedding
    Selway Fisher Peterborough 15' - 21Kgs
    FU-BCU Level 2 (Owns a canoe and gets out there and enjoys themselves)

  54. #54
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    I think you need to make Lloyd Honourary Head Honcho and let him write the articles in his own indomitable style.

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredster View Post
    I'm a FU-BCU level 2, just awarded myself the award a few mins ago actually - if I have a mo later on I may make a nice certificate on the poota.
    I'm afraid to say fred you can't be a level 2.

    Don't forget you introduced Jane & Dave () to proper canoeing, that makes you level 3
    SF Peterborough 14'
    weighs 7 Stone! 44.5kg
    Bell Yellowstone (so light)

  56. #56
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    I introduced my brats and a dog I borrowed!



    Can I be a level 3 too!?!

    Pleeeese!

  57. #57
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    I've introduced all sorts of people to canoeing and many have lived to regret it!

    I hereby claim my FU-BCU level 3.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  58. #58
    Crow's Avatar
    Crow is offline こんにちは。私はカラスと私はスコットラ ンドの出身で す。 My location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squidwurf View Post
    I'm a dedicated no star paddler. Fairly new to canoeing but had done a fair bit of kayaking, dedicated no star paddler in that too (on purpose.)
    I thought it was strange at first when a coach told me a particular stroke I was doing was "banned!" I thought, eh, not best practice maybe, but banned??? Aye, dead on. I don't do it that way anymore, simply because a friend showed me a better way of doing the same thing, after explaining why what I was doing was not great.
    Next experince was when I was helping out a friend in a pool session, he asked me to do a hand roll, just to see if I still could. (It had been maybe 15 years since I last did it.) I did a few when a coach approached me and told me that way was "All wrong." OK, every days a school day and all that, so I asked him to show me his way. He replied, "Uh, um, I can't do them. Aye, dead on.
    I'll continue doing my own thing, and for now I'm happy being NOT REMOTELY QUALIFIED!!!
    A man after my own heart, Squid.

    There's more than one way to skin a cat...

    Crow Trip Log

  59. #59
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    Those who can...... do.

    Those who worry about whether they can or not....want lots of pieces of paper saying they can.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe.ford View Post
    I'm afraid to say fred you can't be a level 2.

    Don't forget you introduced Jane & Dave () to proper canoeing, that makes you level 3
    Sweet! Forgot to mention it earlier but FU-BCU level 3 accreditation comes with coaching status gaffa-taped to it.
    ___________________________________
    Something profound.

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