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Thread: what procedure for drilling stitching holes ??

  1. #1
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    Default what procedure for drilling stitching holes ??

    My question is this:
    When drilling the holes for stitching,do i drill both rows at 200mm intervals before stitching,OR do I just drill the bottom row and then drill the matching row as I go along with the stitching one by one?
    I would appreciate some guidance on this as I am fast approaching this stage.
    Thanks

  2. #2

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    I drilled one side all the way along at 120mm and drilled the other, one by one to match after I had offeredit up and tied a few stitches.

  3. #3
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    Do not drilll. At least, I am very happy with my result, I used packagingtape on the outside to get to Canoe in shape. You can see it in my building blogg. Is saves a lot of time;
    no drilling,no stichtin, you can fillet the hole Canoe in one go, no unstichting, no filling the holes.


    I used 2 or 3 on the bow and stern. Where it was difficult to get all parts together.
    Afterr the prepping of the panels, i had the shape in an hour or 2.

  4. #4

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    The instructions for my canoe was to mark and drill the holes all the way around the middle panel and then starting from the butt straps (middle) match and drll the holes two or three at a time and tie with wire. I worked first one side then the other keeping the distance I worked even on each side. I only tied them loosely at first and then went along after I had all the panels tied together and tightened the wire. My Eureka only has five panels so it worked out fairly simple. With your seven panels I'd mark and drill the bottom panel then match and fit the first to it and then work my way up the sides, drilling the top of each panel first and then matching the next to it. I thought I would have needed an extra pair of hands but by starting the ties loose I just let the panels flop around until I got to the ends and it all came together relatively easy.


    Maybe one of the other Raven builders on here can let you know how they built theirs.


    Kev.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennart View Post
    Do not drilll. At least, I am very happy with my result, I used packagingtape on the outside to get to Canoe in shape. You can see it in my building blogg. Is saves a lot of time;
    no drilling,no stichtin, you can fillet the hole Canoe in one go, no unstichting, no filling the holes.


    I used 2 or 3 on the bow and stern. Where it was difficult to get all parts together.
    Afterr the prepping of the panels, i had the shape in an hour or 2.
    Lennart, the tape and glue method sounds interesting. Can you give me a link to your blog with pictures please?

  6. #6
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    Dave, I reckon trying to line up a piece of very flexible, slim ply against another whilst trying to mark hole positions against a piece that has already been drilled will be a nightmare. Also, using Gaffer tape only might work on certain parts (the top pieces above the water line). I found that I was using the wire to pull pieces into shape, especially the lower pieces. There was no way tape would have held the tension I was using (and I still ended up with some gaps!).

    The design of the stitch and glue is such that all the edges that meet will be the same length (when pulled into shape). Therefore, provided you start the hole measuring from a datum point (ie the middle joint), the holes should line up when you start stitching. I drilled all the holes prior to assembly. I had to drill a few more around the bow curve to bring the front (and back) together tightly. I must admit, filled holes are not ideal as they are certainly visible on my canoe. Maybe using better colour matched filleting powder (ie sawdust from the sanding phase) would improve this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianp2000 View Post
    Dave, I reckon trying to line up a piece of very flexible, slim ply against another whilst trying to mark hole positions against a piece that has already been drilled will be a nightmare. Also, using Gaffer tape only might work on certain parts (the top pieces above the water line). I found that I was using the wire to pull pieces into shape, especially the lower pieces. There was no way tape would have held the tension I was using (and I still ended up with some gaps!).

    The design of the stitch and glue is such that all the edges that meet will be the same length (when pulled into shape). Therefore, provided you start the hole measuring from a datum point (ie the middle joint), the holes should line up when you start stitching. I drilled all the holes prior to assembly. I had to drill a few more around the bow curve to bring the front (and back) together tightly. I must admit, filled holes are not ideal as they are certainly visible on my canoe. Maybe using better colour matched filleting powder (ie sawdust from the sanding phase) would improve this.
    Seems to make good sense.Cheers Ian p.

  8. #8

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    I worked out the distances, made a wooden former with hole at one end the same size as the drill I would be using (6mm), hole filled with projecting dowel at the other and the width between the hole and edge of the wood to match the distance from the gunnel down. Drill the first hole where I calculated I wanted it to be, then placed the projecting dowel in this and drilled through the other hole. Started from each end towards the middle. Easy!

    Somewhere on this site are pictures showing this in action.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellarman View Post
    I worked out the distances, made a wooden former with hole at one end the same size as the drill I would be using (6mm), hole filled with projecting dowel at the other and the width between the hole and edge of the wood to match the distance from the gunnel down. Drill the first hole where I calculated I wanted it to be, then placed the projecting dowel in this and drilled through the other hole. Started from each end towards the middle. Easy!

    Somewhere on this site are pictures showing this in action.
    See here http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...highlight=idol

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Scott View Post
    Lennart, the tape and glue method sounds interesting. Can you give me a link to your blog with pictures please?
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...lue-and-stitch



    Please bare in mind that I bluid the canoe in 4 mm .

    best pictures of the taping
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/24154262@N05/4384142890/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2415426...7623401088153/

    these where the first 3 panels on each side. after those came another 2. 1 tumblehome and 1 2cm peice that is there to put the gunnels on.

  11. #11

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    Dave.

    One thing I don't understand here. Didn't it state in the plans how to go about doing the stitching ? Be carefull about getting creative because it could cost you time and money.

    There are some quick build canoes out there with three panels that use tape to hold the panels in shape. I would stay away from the tape idea with your build. When you start to tighten the stitching you can adjust the panels as you go but with tape you can't do that. Also start from the middle and work towards the ends so that any discrepancies finish up in the stems where you can sand them back. If you start from the ends and work to the middle any discrepancies will only distort the panels.

    Kev.

  12. #12

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    I've seen great results with a packing tape build, but I've no experience of it so I'll stick to commenting on the drilling of holes. Don't try to pre-drill all your holes at regular intervals on all the panels and then expect them to magically match up. Your centre holes will be fine, but as you work out toward the ends of the boat you'll find that the holes no longer match up. Stick to drilling your top edge and then as you stitch drill a few holes at a time of the bottom edge of your new plank. Don't stress about perfect spacing either. You can get away with fewer stitches in the low stress areas and beef up the number of stitches in the high stress areas around the stems.

  13. #13
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    I found that you can adjust a lot with the tape , I fisrst taped vertical . you can lot a lot of tension on there. My building book told me as well to do the sticting thing , but I found on some palce on the web some info on taping with good results. so I tought try that one first a hour or 2 it that does not look like it is going to work I would have started drilling. as you can see I used the stations on the outside and the inside as well that helped a lot to get the boat in shape.
    I could and still can see many pro's for this method and not many cons.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Scott View Post
    My question is this:
    When drilling the holes for stitching,do i drill both rows at 200mm intervals before stitching,OR do I just drill the bottom row and then drill the matching row as I go along with the stitching one by one?
    I would appreciate some guidance on this as I am fast approaching this stage.
    Thanks
    Wondering this too..
    I was going to drill the bottom sheets, one on top of the other to save time, as the "base" holes.
    Then align the next peice side by side starting in the middle, and swing it along the curve marking off where it will align. The upper part of that same panel can be randomly drilled at your set distance, and then again swing the next panel along marking off where they meet.
    Repeat until finished!
    What I am not sure of is how far into the panel to drill as I am using cable ties. It would help on the finish and filling of the holes if it is close enough to be under any seam tape. Question then is do you just fillet in between the ties, remove them, and fillet the remaining gap?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjgm View Post
    Question then is do you just fillet in between the ties, remove them, and fillet the remaining gap?
    I personally filleted between the ties, removed them then filleted the gaps.

  16. #16

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    I 'tacked' between wire ties, using a syringe. Then pull the ties out ( a lighter will fetch out the buried ones), then fillet all the way along.

    The holes don't have to be perfectly aligned. The friction between the panels will stop you moving them against each other even if you want to. Remember the ties are there just to hold things in shape till you get some epoxy on.
    Better drowned than duffers
    If not duffers wont drown

  17. #17

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    How thickened was your epoxy mix, if it will got through a syringe, yet dosnt run down the panels? It does seem that this filleting process is where you can really make a permanent mess, so I am keen to find a clean way of doing it ! A re.fillable cartidge gun solution , though I did read about a cake/icing decorating approach !
    There must be a neat way of lining a bead of filler,like you might silicon in the bathroom....

  18. #18

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    I have just finished doing my fillets between the wires. As per plan I mixed the epoxy with wood flour and microfiber until it was like a peanut butter consitency. At first I tred filling a freezer bag with the mix and cutting off the corner and piping the epoxy out like icing. It sort of worked but I found it easier to just use a stick sanded down like a chisel and scooping out a little at a time smoothed it into the joint. Worked for me.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

  19. #19
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    Omg. That is neat. Omg.......

  20. #20

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    I use a ketchup thickness in the syringe. If the panels are closed up as tight as they should be, it won't dribble through. Once it's gone off, pull out the wires. Then mask, fillet, pull off the masking, and fibreglass in one go.

    Better drowned than duffers
    If not duffers wont drown

  21. #21

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    For filleting, I applied epoxy/woodflour/bit of silica mix with a flat freezer bag, with the corner snipped off. Don't use ones with gussets as it squirts all over the place.
    Better drowned than duffers
    If not duffers wont drown

  22. #22

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    eeek.. you are setting me some standards here !

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaker View Post

    Just looking at your photo...how on earth did you get those joins in the lengths of ply (the curved interlocking bits that look like a jig saw puzzle)?!?! THAT is clever!

  24. #24

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    Either

    a) I have a fine japanese jigsaw and I am a woodworking deity, or
    b) It's CNC cut by FyneBoatKits.

    The joints are great though. Perfect alignment, plenty of glue area. CLC do the same thing across a whole sheet of marine ply, so you can get puzzle jointed ply as long as you want, and use it instead of scarfing if you are building from plans.
    Better drowned than duffers
    If not duffers wont drown

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