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Thread: My cedar strip lawton tender row boat build.

  1. #61

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    - I can already see the lovely lines of the finished boat . . .

    Be careful when squaring up the edges you don't lose the lofted shape. You really only need one accurate corner on a mold edge, which should be on the station mark, and generally faces away from midships so the stringers can rest on the accurate edge. There's no real need to square the mold edges except for one or two around midships.

    There's no need to bevel the mold edges for a one-off either. For a building mold that will be used many times like the pros it is done for durability, to give the stringers a better land, but extra material is then provided for beveling.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  2. #62

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    Cove up during the build is usual and less messy but the cove is more vulnerable to damage than the bead. You can prevent damage to the cove by using a short length of beaded edge to press the strips into place. Don't forget to put any strips that are too thick on so that you can plane off the outside face, or better still - if you can - run them through a thickness planer before you start.

    I'm not sure what staples would have to do with the cove up-down decision, but I read someplace they are best placed across the seam unless you are taking a break after the current strip in which case they are best placed in the center of it. Test your stapler before you start. Also wax the edges of the station molds thoroughly.

    I'm not sure which glue you are using, but assuming you will cover the boat with epoxy and glass fiber, ordinary carpenter's glue will work fine and is easy to clean. Keep glue runs cleaned up as you go especially the inside which is hardest to sand off.

    I don't use staples, glass or bead and cove myself so I'm just reporting what others say except for cleaning glue runs which I learned the hard way! I hope some of it will be of use. Good luck with the build!
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    Cove up during the build is usual and less messy but the cove is more vulnerable to damage than the bead. You can prevent damage to the cove by using a short length of beaded edge to press the strips into place. Don't forget to put any strips that are too thick on so that you can plane off the outside face, or better still - if you can - run them through a thickness planer before you start.

    I'm not sure what staples would have to do with the cove up-down decision, but I read someplace they are best placed across the seam unless you are taking a break after the current strip in which case they are best placed in the center of it. Test your stapler before you start. Also wax the edges of the station molds thoroughly.

    I'm not sure which glue you are using, but assuming you will cover the boat with epoxy and glass fiber, ordinary carpenter's glue will work fine and is easy to clean. Keep glue runs cleaned up as you go especially the inside which is hardest to sand off.

    I don't use staples, glass or bead and cove myself so I'm just reporting what others say except for cleaning glue runs which I learned the hard way! I hope some of it will be of use. Good luck with the build!

    Ill see how i get on when i set all the forms up and ill test a few strips to see whats the best approach to strip it. I hope i remember to put the thickest part outside becauuse it wil be a pain to sand off if it ends up inside.

  4. #64

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    Yesterday i was out on my own and i cut and shaped the rest of my forms apart from the transom and stem form. I was out for 4 hours so that takes me upto 38hours.


    Im abit held back now because i need the part i need to fix my cicular saw comes so i can make my stem up but cant cut the ash into strips untill the part arrives. I hope its the proper part because if its not, ill have to order another art that it might be ad thats going to set me back even longer.


    I also was naive and went ahead and bought that fiberglass that was going cheap. I wetted some of it out and even thou it looks and holds well, it doesnt wet out like the normal stuff i need to use. It actuly takes ages for the epoxy to soak through the cloth. I gave a guy i met on here a piece so he could also try out himself because i was telling him good of a price it was going for ,and he's came back and said the same about it not wetting out great so ill have to put it aside and prob use it on another job ill do in the future. The price of the stuff was 22 for 22 meters so it aint really that much im going to a lose.






    Total time spent at it - 38 hours

  5. #65

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    Im decided to use white or red deal timber for my transom. I can get 4x4ft x 1inch (or maybe 1.5inch) for 50 euro. Ill have a word with the guy tomorrow and see if he'll sell me me it in a 4x2 length for half the price because thats all i need. These sheets come in 8x4 and they cut in half for anyone who needs a 4x4 size but will they cut it even smaller, i dont know thou ill find out tomorrow when i ask.

    Ive been searching online for some 6oz cloth and theyre all coming out at about 5-6 a sq mtr but ive came across a site that sells the cloth at 135g per sq m for 3 or 200g per sq mtr for 3.35. The 135g works out at 4.8oz and the 200g works out at 7.1 oz. I think ill go with the 7oz on the outside and the 4.8oz on the inner side. Do you think i could get away with using the 4.8oz on the outside as well, if i remember correctly, i seen a comment on a thread i made before on here where a guy was saying he uses 4oz cloth on the outside of his boats and he hasnt noticed any difference.

  6. #66

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    Can't recall if this came up before in this thread but the strips can be applied from the gunnels down or from the keel up. There are other methods including starting or finishing with a (Rugby) football-shaped bottom panel stripped fore-and-aft with the rest of the boat stripped stem to stem between the bottom panel and the gunnels; the image below shows a partially built canoe with ribs and it illustrates the football shaped bottom panel although in this case it is plywood.

    Strips don't have to be full-length; "stealer" strips are often used to straighten the strips when they are getting too hard to bend. The optimum pattern varies with the hull shape. If the plans do not specify the pattern, it pays to spend some time experimenting to see which works out best, I would also suggest you search the net for stripper boats to get more information.


    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  7. #67

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    Illl have a look into more of what you say AK, cheers


    I was at the builders yard today and had a look at the red deal sheet they have for sale and they guy behind the desk has told me that i can get a 4x2 ft for 25euro but after i had a look at it, i wasnt to sure it would do because its only 3/4inch thick and it bends abit if i put force on it. Im wonder will it still be ok to use because im thinking when i fiberglass and epoxy it, it wil strengthen up more but i thought id post here just incase its not suitable.Another option is, I have some finished red deal door frame in the shed at 5.5x1.5inch and im now thinking of cutting this up and piecing together with epoxy but thought id post my thoughts here to hear your views on it before i make my next move.


    I made a mistake here below in teh pics but nothing to bad. When i 1st marked out my transom and stem form, i made them to the size of the plans but i forgot im making the boat an extra 2 ft longer but i realised this after i drew my lines onto the mdf. I had to add another 3.4inch onto my stem form so i can get that extra spacing between that form and the next. I moved the line but then it overlapped my transom thou after some thought, i just decided to cut out the transom form first because TBH, it doesnt really matter if i notched the stem form at that line. Just as well i noticed this because i was ready to redraw them again but thankfully i got away with making this mistake. If it had of been any other form then id have been screwed and would have had to redraw them.










    I also had a few wee helpers with me today










    And heres me cutting out the transom.






  8. #68

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    Is that MDF? Looks more like drywall board in the picture. I'm asking because I have several sheets of it that I have no use for, and if it works for station forms then it can have a purpose in life in my next boat! You can glue to it but it doesn't take nails or screws . . .
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  9. #69

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    Looks great - really keen to see how she goes together, the lines look lovely. Good luck!

  10. #70

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    Heres my strong back set up, all i need to do now is attach some 4x2 i have then im ready to put the forms up. Will do this in the next few days.











    Im looking to know how important it is for the strong back to be perfectly level. Mines is out about 2mm in places but ive tried most things and i cant seem to get it all perfect. Its because the strong back has a wee bump here and there but nothing to major.In my opinion, I think 2mm isnt going to effect the boat that much but id like to hear your thoughts on this. I forgot to take a few pics of it but will do the next time im out there










  11. #71

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    Once your 4x2 is up the only important thing is getting your forms level - you can tweak their position on the 4x2 a bit so you can easily lose this. 2mm shouldn't matter anyhow it is tiny!

  12. #72

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    Yeah thats what i thought. Im going to set both ends and then run 2 lines from both them and bring all the rest inline with each one. Ill take a few pictures of how ive done this

  13. #73

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    Here below is a 5ft 10x1.5inch pine that i got for 13euro. Here below i cut it in 2 and sanded and roughed up with jigsaw so when i join it with epoxy, it gets a good bond. I only had one clamp for teh job and while i was testing it out without the epoxy it just didnt look like it was closing up. I think ill have to get another clamp or 2 so i can close it up properly. I was down in town earlier and all i could find was clamps for 15euro,im in 2 minds to buy one or not and im wondering is there anything i can do instead.


    I also picked up a roll of tape for my forms at 1.50 euro

    Total cost so far 683 euro
    time spent 39 hours












  14. #74
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    Home made sash clamp...

    Length of 2x4 or whatever you have that long and strong enough not to bend.

    Cut a couple of 6 inch long bits off it and screw the first one on at one end.

    Cut a wooden wedge 6 - 12 inches long and 1 inch thick.

    Put the workpiece to be clamped across the 2x4.

    Put the wedge across after it, then the second block to get teh angle you need for the wedge.

    Screw the second block on

    Prep your work piece, put it on the 4x2 between the blocks, then tap in the wedge to squeeze it.

    Take the screws out of a block to release the job when set.

    Did that make sense?

    Would a drawing help?

    Also, you know how you put wires through and wind it up on stitch and glue....

    Could you tighten it by tying a piece of rope around it and winding it tight with a stick?

  15. #75

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    I googled "Home made sash clamp" and got several videos and other web sources. They all seem to require a length of threaded rod but you should be able to pick that up at your local hardware store and some nuts. You can make the handle by filing flats to fit a small spanner (wrench) . . . there are lots of ideas out there - I'm going to look at some of the videos myself and try them out.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  16. #76
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    Thought about rod, but then remembered that Mr X has piles of wood and is carefully watching his budget.

  17. #77
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    Sorry its a bit rough.

  18. #78

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    I found these while i was looking for info on an inner keel and was wondering whats your thoughts on it. Youll see in previous posts on hear about the inner keel and that i was in 2 minds not to use on or not but if you have a look at my forms youll see that they are meant for an inner keel. Im still clueless on what to do with this inner keel. It looks to me in them pics below that its just one keel where they work upto it with the cedar strip but im also wondering do they just glue the strip to the keel and would you have to fiberglass over it.

    Is there anyone on here thats built a different cedar boat yet added a keel this way.













  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Home made sash clamp...

    Length of 2x4 or whatever you have that long and strong enough not to bend.

    Cut a couple of 6 inch long bits off it and screw the first one on at one end.

    Cut a wooden wedge 6 - 12 inches long and 1 inch thick.

    Put the workpiece to be clamped across the 2x4.

    Put the wedge across after it, then the second block to get teh angle you need for the wedge.

    Screw the second block on

    Prep your work piece, put it on the 4x2 between the blocks, then tap in the wedge to squeeze it.

    Take the screws out of a block to release the job when set.

    Did that make sense?

    Would a drawing help?

    Also, you know how you put wires through and wind it up on stitch and glue....

    Could you tighten it by tying a piece of rope around it and winding it tight with a stick?
    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Thought about rod, but then remembered that Mr X has piles of wood and is carefully watching his budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    I googled "Home made sash clamp" and got several videos and other web sources. They all seem to require a length of threaded rod but you should be able to pick that up at your local hardware store and some nuts. You can make the handle by filing flats to fit a small spanner (wrench) . . . there are lots of ideas out there - I'm going to look at some of the videos myself and try them out.
    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Sorry its a bit rough.



    Ive some 4x3s that i have under my strong back that might just do that job but im still waiting on this part coming for my cicular saw. Ill have a try and see what i can come up with but if not, i might just have to buy just 1 as i think(hope) ill get away with using 2 clamps

  20. #80
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    I keep going back to all those staples and things....

    Its bothering me...the idea of making all those holes in your beautiful wood.

    Ive never seen anyone do it, but....

    What would happen if you drill a hole through the middle of each form and put a length of elastic rope through the hole.

    Tie the ends of the rope together to make a loop and weight it on the outside....

    Hang on...

    I will do another pic...

  21. #81
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    Sorry its rough.

    Put a hole through through each station

    Put a loop of elastic rope through each one.

    Hang the rope over the cedar strips when they are glued on

    Put a piece of pipe, or some other weight to clamp the cedar strips to the frame and to each other.

    Maybe cut a bottom corner out of an ice cream pot or something similar to sit on top of the cedar strips to keep glue off the elastic and to spread the weight.

    This isnt something Ive tried, but it wouuld be something I would seriously consider looking at to avoid all those staples and stuff.

  22. #82

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    I read that something similar is often done on a strip-built boat, using nylon fishing line. The line is virtually invisible so it is left in place when the next strip is being applied, so it isn't necessary to wait for the glue to set before adding another layer. The lines are just "shaved off" during sanding.

    Most of the guys who use staples report that, when the thinnest staples are used (I believe they are for ceiling tiles) the tiny holes fill in when the staples are removed and the wood is dampened to swell the crushed fibers.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  23. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    I keep going back to all those staples and things....

    Its bothering me...the idea of making all those holes in your beautiful wood.

    Ive never seen anyone do it, but....

    What would happen if you drill a hole through the middle of each form and put a length of elastic rope through the hole.

    Tie the ends of the rope together to make a loop and weight it on the outside....

    Hang on...

    I will do another pic...
    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post


    Sorry its rough.

    Put a hole through through each station

    Put a loop of elastic rope through each one.

    Hang the rope over the cedar strips when they are glued on

    Put a piece of pipe, or some other weight to clamp the cedar strips to the frame and to each other.

    Maybe cut a bottom corner out of an ice cream pot or something similar to sit on top of the cedar strips to keep glue off the elastic and to spread the weight.

    This isnt something Ive tried, but it wouuld be something I would seriously consider looking at to avoid all those staples and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    I read that something similar is often done on a strip-built boat, using nylon fishing line. The line is virtually invisible so it is left in place when the next strip is being applied, so it isn't necessary to wait for the glue to set before adding another layer. The lines are just "shaved off" during sanding.

    Most of the guys who use staples report that, when the thinnest staples are used (I believe they are for ceiling tiles) the tiny holes fill in when the staples are removed and the wood is dampened to swell the crushed fibers.


    Id love to try this but id be afraid of meesing the boat up. Ive came to the conclusion that i dont really mind having staple holes in my boat. Ill prob build another one next year or the year after thou and try this method .

  24. #84

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    More pics of an inner keel













  25. #85
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    Looks to me like the inner keel is screwed, through the hull, to the outer keel.

    Would this make it stronger?

    Would it stop any chance of unsightly marks from the centre strip join from being seen?

    lol If I had a boat that pretty, I would be terrified of getting it scratched.

    I wouldnt be able to just leave it on the sand witht he waves buffetting it like that.

    Chicken me.

  26. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Looks to me like the inner keel is screwed, through the hull, to the outer keel.

    Would this make it stronger?

    Would it stop any chance of unsightly marks from the centre strip join from being seen?

    lol If I had a boat that pretty, I would be terrified of getting it scratched.

    I wouldnt be able to just leave it on the sand witht he waves buffetting it like that.

    Chicken me.

    In the plans it says that i can either screw the inner keel to the forms of use blocks and clamps. In this pic above i think that guy who built it used the screw method.

    Im wanting to know how is the strips attached to the inner keel, would they rest on top of it or be glued to the side. If its the latter, i dont think that would be a great bond and it seems very weak to me.

    Ive sent another msg to the place i got my plans off and still no reply so if theres anyone reading this who is thinking of buying these plans of this guy, make sure to get all your questions in before you buy them because they arent to quick of the mark with replies after they got your money.

  27. #87

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    I came across this below while browsing the internet and want to know your thoughts on it. Would these type of oars be ok for the type of boat im building. Below is also a link to the timber yard where ill be getting the timber to make my oars but since they dont sell spruce, i dont know what other type i should use.


    http://www.mcgregorhardwood.com/timber/all.php



    These plans are provided free for all to use and distribute and are not for sale.
    They were created as my thanks to Jacques Mertens of Bateau.com and
    all builders who take the time to post and help others in the Bateau forums.




  28. #88

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    Ive had a reply from lawton and im abit more clued up on what ive to do next. Hes sent me a few picture of an inner keel so now im going to go ahead. Im going to use some ash that i have there for this job. I just couldnt get my head around why i needed an inner keel or even how it was attached to the strips. I had it in my head that the bottom of the hull would have been weakend somehow but i guess thats just me not really known what im talking about,lol. Im happy now that thats cleared up and i can move forward.

    I was in contact with the shop that is selling the spare part for my circular saw and theyve informed me that i wont be receiving it untill after the 24th as its on backorder. Really disapointed with this because i have a lot of free time this week and next and i wont be able to get any work done on it.

    Heres a few pics that lawton sent me of an inner keel of a rangeley and lawton.









  29. #89

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    Try this link -

    http://www.fivenineclimber.com/boats...es/oarwood.htm

    - on the issue of going green, I take issue with the writer about the need to use only perfect lumber. That may have been true in the past but with modern glues oars can be laminated from scarfed wood to work around the shortcomings of the wood allowing use of non-old growth wood. I do this all the time to get quality wood in the lengths I need for boatbuilding without spending a fortune or travelling around remote woodyards. So it adds a day for scarfing and another for laminating and a few $$ for the glue: I would spend that time and fuel to find the perfect plank anyway. I haven't made oars as I got lucky and found a pair cheap but I have made masts, and laminated wood allows me other options like hollow spars . . .
    Last edited by Ancient Kayaker; 12th-April-2012 at 11:42 PM.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  30. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    Try this link -

    http://www.fivenineclimber.com/boats...es/oarwood.htm

    - on the issue of going green, I take issue with the writer about the need to use only perfect lumber. That may have been true in the past but with modern glues oars can be laminated from scarfed wood to work around the shortcomings of the wood allowing use of non-old growth wood. I do this all the time to get quality wood in the lengths I need for boatbuilding without spending a fortune or travelling around remote woodyards. So it adds a day for scarfing and another for laminating and a few $$ for the glue: I would spend that time and fuel to find the perfect plank anyway. I haven't made oars as I got lucky and found a pair cheap but I have made masts, and laminated wood allows me other options like hollow spars . . .


    I see on that link that it says i can use ash, ill have about 16ft 4x1.5 inch left over when im done using all what i need the ash for on the boat. would it be possible to get away with using the 1.5inch or would i need teh extra half inch for more strength. I can buy somemore pine for the very bottom of the oars or possibly use some mahogeny.

  31. #91

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    I managed to get a table saw for a few days and was out today cutting my gun whales,inner keel and the stem piece. While i was there i also pieced together my 2 pieces of pine im uing for my transome by using 2 small clamps i have. I screwed some battens onto the scarp pieces of the pine so i could get away with using the smaller clamps.

    I also screwed some scrap timber i had lying in the shed to it as you can see below. When i done this , it opened the back of the timber so i had to put the larger clamp there so i could close up the gap. I used epoxy for to seal it and i was going to leave in the shed but changed my mind and decided to take it home after i heard on the radio that its going to be -1 tonight and i know epoxy doesnt do to well in cold environments so better to take it home and let it bond properly.

    Im also thinking of adding 1 or 2 accent strips on each side made from ash or and possibly adding a few on the bottom of the hull. HAs anyone any pictures of any boats,canoes with 2 accent strips and some on the hull so i can get a good look at them before i start striping


    All ive to do now is attach my forms to the strongback, bend my stem pieces into place then im good to go for striping. Cant wait for this stage because then ill see it all taking shape but i dare say ill run into another wee prob here because it seems that every stage i get to, something arises which isnt in the plan,lol.


  32. #92

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    Can anyone tell me how much kg of epoxy i need if im to use 3.5 gallons. It says in teh plans that i need 3.5 gallons but here in ireland and the uk they sell it in kgs. I honestly dont know how to work this out.

    Ive been looking at getting this what i have on the link.http://www.mbfg.co.uk/user/products/...kg_500x500.jpg , http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/s...oxy-resin.html .Im wondering will the 11.8kg be enough or will i have to go for the larger product at 23.6kg.

  33. #93

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    You'll need to know the specific gravity of the manufacturer's epoxy, and also allow for the hardener ratio which can be 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 or 5:1

    Also check the plans to see if it is likely to be specified in US or imperial gallons - big difference.

    My el-cheapo oars are 1.73 x 1.33 (oval) tapering to 1.3 dia at the handles: I don't know what wood was used but if they were ash I doubt they would break, I think 1.5" dia should be fine but you can do some web searches - there are oar designs out there.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  34. #94
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    Ive just made a 5 ft long paddle out of some old rough 1" square pine.

    The head on its enormous.

    However, the shaft isnt bending

    Im pretty sure that its as Ancient said. 1.5 ash would be plenty strong enough.

    Isnt ash the stuff our pitch fork handles used to be made of?

    I never managed to snap one of them - even flipping hay bales up onto loaded trailers. Im pretty sure they were less than 1.5" dia.

    I see the plans say to grind down the shaft to make the paddle a nice shape.

    That paddle I just made, I left the shaft 1/2" thick all the way to the end, so I could use it to pole my boat when I get into mud or weed.

  35. #95

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    I just double checked my list of materials and its 3gallons that i need, not the 3.5 i previously mentioned . Ive found out that epoxy weighs 1 gallon weighs around 8 to 9 lb so thats 3.65kg to 4kg per gallon. Ive about 1 pint of epoxy left over from my canoe build and ill use this for the stems and joining the transom together so i think ill get away with buying the 11.8kg. I hope im not scraping the epoxy tin at the end of the build because ill prob have to buy another 3kg at 50 and if this is what happens then i should have bought the 23kg to start of with and been left with 10kg more epoxy for an extra 40. Im now sitting here wondering will i just go ahead and buy the 23.6kg incase i do run out with buying the 11.8kg.

    It also says in the list of materials that i need 18 yrds peel ply and 14 yrds of 6oz fiberglass cloth. Ive just googled peel ply and seen a video on youtube and it looks to me that its a type of fiberglass but anywhere else ive seen a cedar strip build ive only seen fiberglass get used. Im thinking will i just go ahead and use the fiberglass on its on. My boat will be 12ft long and im near sure ill get away with using 5mtrs of 1mx1.5m cloth thou ill have to double check my forms. If i can get away with using this, ill buy 10mtrs of cloth at 110( without P&P) instead of buying 20mtrs of the 1mx1m which will set me back 130(without P&P).




    Total cost so far 683 euro
    time spent 44 hours
    Last edited by mrxireland; 14th-April-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  36. #96

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    The plans for the Lawton seem to be from the States so it's the US gallon you are dealing with in the plans, which is 5/6 of an Imperial gallon used in the UK and here in Canada, and presumably there in Ireland. If you are getting the epoxy weight information from a UK source they are likely using the Imperial gallon.

    I seem to remember that you planned to stretch the design from 10 feet to 12 feet, if you are still doing that you will obviously need more.

    I don't have experience of using glass fiber but peel ply is a shiny plastic that epoxy will not stick to; it smooths the surface of the epoxy. If you don't use the peel ply you will probably need to do more sanding to get a smooth finish which will remove epoxy, so presumably you will need to put more epoxy on in the first place so you an sand it off again . . .
    Last edited by Ancient Kayaker; 14th-April-2012 at 02:51 PM.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  37. #97
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    I havent used Peel Ply, so I cant comment on it.

    You said you will probably make another boat in a while.

    If you think its likely to be in the next 6 months, I would probably go for the bigger size.

    I would check to see what its shelf life is though.

    I keep a stock of 1 gallon of polyester resin in my kitchen as thats roughly what I get through in a couple of months.

    Boatbuilding has proved addictive for me.

  38. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    The plans for the Lawton seem to be from the States so it's the US gallon you are dealing with in the plans, which is 5/6 of an Imperial gallon used in the UK and here in Canada, and presumably there in Ireland. If you are getting the epoxy weight information from a UK source they are likely using the Imperial gallon.

    I seem to remember that you planned to stretch the design from 10 feet to 12 feet, if you are still doing that you will obviously need more.

    I don't have experience of using glass fiber but peel ply is a shiny plastic that epoxy will not stick to; it smooths the surface of the epoxy. If you don't use the peel ply you will probably need to do more sanding to get a smooth finish which will remove epoxy, so presumably you will need to put more epoxy on in the first place so you an sand it off again . . .
    I think ill just stick to what i know because i know nothing about this peel ply and i wouldnt want to mess the boat up at that stage of the build and as for the epoxy, your right about stretching the boat by 2ft , i forgot all about this when thinking how much i needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    I havent used Peel Ply, so I cant comment on it.

    You said you will probably make another boat in a while.

    If you think its likely to be in the next 6 months, I would probably go for the bigger size.

    I would check to see what its shelf life is though.

    I keep a stock of 1 gallon of polyester resin in my kitchen as thats roughly what I get through in a couple of months.

    Boatbuilding has proved addictive for me.

    It'll prob be next year sometime, possibly next summer that ill have another go at building another. I had a plan for next year about and it was building 10 beehives and buying in 10 nucs of bees as to try my hands at something different but ill put that off to next year because this boat building has got the hold of me. I wouldnt mind getting into it as a business when the irish economy is healthy again because its something that i like doing, weither theres a business in it here , i dont know but i might start looking into it.

    Ive some epoxy over from last summer and the date says 2013 so hopefully when i buy this epoxy, it will last to 2014.

  39. #99

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    I was on ebay looking at some oar locks and these 2 look ok to me but what one would you suggest i get or does it even matter. Im thinking the locks in the 1st link because it looks alot easier to attach to the boat but id like to hear your views on it incase theres something i need to know when buying these. I was expecting to pay more for these so im well pleased with the price.


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Side-Mount...item563c4c4aad









    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clamp-Oar-...item5636b20056








  40. #100
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    Ive had a little go at rowing.

    Discovered I was carp.

    I used the top rowlocks. The ones I used had a plastic sleeve that fitted on the oars to make them the right diameter and stop the oars slipping over the side.

    Have seen the bottom ones and thought they looked "bitty", and could scratch a boat as they were metal, hard edged and stay on the oars.

    Havent used them so havent any opinion on use.

  41. #101

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    I use the bottom type with a simple block with a hole in it, very cheap. There is nothing I can lose, and it's only a sailboat so rowing isn't the main thing just a get-me-home. I notice the top pair have holes for a retainer, which can be a split pin or chain or whatever; I've seen several schemes for preventing them going over the side. You can do a bit of web research to see which suits you best when the time comes.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  42. #102

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    I set up my forms 1.5 and 2 and stem form so i could bend my ash strips for my stem and put a piece of cedar strip along the sherline of it and have noticed that it takes a real sharp turn but when i put the strip to no2 and the point of the stem, the strip doesnt touch form 1.5. Im wondering would this have anything to do with me adding a few inches to the spacing so i can stretch the boat. When i pushed the strip so it meets for 1.5, i dont get a natural curve, its like an 'S'.

    I have discused stretching the forms with the guy i got the plans so i can get a longer boat and he said this is fine, it even says in the booklet i get with teh plans that its ok to do this but now im abit worried incase ive overlooked something and its knocking me off. I cut all the forms to proper sizes, i run a chalk like along my strongback so i have a true line. I lined up the centre line on my forms with the chalk line and plumed the forms.

    Can anyone tell me am i worring about nothing because im now thinking that it might all fall into place when i have all the forms
    Last edited by mrxireland; 15th-April-2012 at 06:26 PM.

  43. #103

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    The sheerline shown at http://www.newfound.com/tender.htm does not have a reverse curve or hollow, it is more or less a circular arc which seems to sharpen about 2' from the bow on the 10' boat shown. Simply stretching a boat along its centerline may slightly tighten the sheer curve near the stem, but should not introduce a reverse curve where none existed. I suggest you check very carefully before you proceed further. One thing you can try is to arrange the stations using the design spacing; if the reverse curve disappears something was definitely wrong with the previous spacing.

    If you don't find the problem, list the form spacing in the design and the ones you are using, maybe I or someone else can spot the trouble.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  44. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Kayaker View Post
    The sheerline shown at http://www.newfound.com/tender.htm does not have a reverse curve or hollow, it is more or less a circular arc which seems to sharpen about 2' from the bow on the 10' boat shown. Simply stretching a boat along its centerline may slightly tighten the sheer curve near the stem, but should not introduce a reverse curve where none existed. I suggest you check very carefully before you proceed further. One thing you can try is to arrange the stations using the design spacing; if the reverse curve disappears something was definitely wrong with the previous spacing.

    If you don't find the problem, list the form spacing in the design and the ones you are using, maybe I or someone else can spot the trouble.


    Ill be out tomorrow hopefully and ill set all the forms up with the extra spacing and ill take the camera with me and take a few pics to show every detail of what im talking about.boat. Im not going to add any strips untill i have worked everything out and have everything in place properly even if it means going back to building it at 10ft , thou id be disapointed at this because the reason i bought the plans was because i could stretch it to 12ft.

  45. #105

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    Don't give up! I'm sure the transition from 10' to 12' can be made, just a question of figuring out what went wrong the first time.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  46. #106

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    I had a similar problem once and the solution suggested by the designer was simply to bend some strips around a few of the most important forms until a good curve was produced and then increase the size of the forms so that they touched the strips. I did this by simply tapping short nails into the outer edge of the forms where the strips were,nt touching and adjusting them to the edge oif the 'floating strip'. I then had a guide to cut some extra MDF and screw to my forms to make the larger. Worked a treat - getting a nice line is more important than sticking to plans after all. Good luck

  47. #107
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    Forms...
    Is your stretched gap between your two tallest frames?

    Rowlocks...
    Top set is fitted to my kids Mirror dinghy. The retaining string does leave the rowlocks dangling to catch on anything they can when sliding the boat upside down on the trailer.

  48. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    . . . Rowlocks...
    Top set is fitted to my kids Mirror dinghy. The retaining string does leave the rowlocks dangling to catch on anything they can when sliding the boat upside down on the trailer.
    Good point. I don't have that problem when car-topping, with the bottom set they stay attached to the oars at all times. I seem to remember a design that avoided the problem but I can't recall how - it was a photo in an old book and they would be expensive and/or hard to get by now.

    Incidentally, you don't have to use oarlocks or rowlocks - I can never remember which word is used on which side of the Atlantic - you can use Thole pins instead, but the can be more wear on the boat's gunnel.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  49. #109

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    Peel ply
    Is a very fine Nylon fabric.
    You on the last coat of resin or Glass fiber apply it like you would with another layer.
    Roll it on removing all the air bubbles.

    Best used on the edges of the matting or cloth.
    This gives a neat edge to the cloth so will hold down any fluffy bits .

    This is ideal if you would like to make an internal non slip floor finish.

    Sand the area well apply a colored resin or colored gel coat apply the peel ply and allow to dry. then pull of the peel ply.
    this will leave a pattern like a fine weave.
    Only needs to be done on the areas you stand or enter the boat.


    When Cured you pull the peel ply off and this leaves an area that glass fiber can be added to if required. Or sanded down to make the area smooth.
    The peel ply can only be used once. then thrown away

  50. #110

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    I run into a few problems with the spacing of my forms at the front of the boat but managed to work it all out. When i run a strip along the sheerline, it wouldnt touch the 1.5 form. Here below you can see how far i was out. To solve the problem i moved form 1.5 forward 2 inches and it all fell into place.









    Heres a pic of how it looked after i moved the stem form forward. Once i beveled teh forms, the strip sits perfect onto each form including the one that was out by 1/2 inch.









    Today i striped,bead and coved my white pine ,beveled my forms and also beveled my transom. I was beveling my pine transom for about a half hour with my small plane and i was getting nowhere with it because the strips take a sharp turn where it meets the transom and i had to take a good chunk off. I decided to get the electric plane out and do the job properly. I remember reading somewhere that your not suppose to use an electric plane for beveling but id be still out there now doing it. I didnt do to bad a job but still tidied it up with the smaller plane.


    Youll see in my pics below that my stem isnt the greatest as some of the strips arent in place. When i was bending them around the stem form, some of them popped out of position. I think theyre out about 2mm in places but ill plave this out when i take it off the form in a few days.


















  51. #111
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    Electric plane is a powered version of a normal plane.

    No reason why you cant bevel things with it.

    I usually bevel things with that carbide wheel in my angle grinder as its a lot faster.

    The only limit is your ability to control the tools.

  52. #112
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    Love the look of your transom.

    You are doing a beautiful job of your boat.

  53. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Electric plane is a powered version of a normal plane.

    No reason why you cant bevel things with it.

    I usually bevel things with that carbide wheel in my angle grinder as its a lot faster.

    The only limit is your ability to control the tools.
    I was trying to follow what i was told but after my arms started getting abit tired and not really getting anywhere, i decided to do it my own way and pull the electric one out, im glad i did now


    Quote Originally Posted by No Idea View Post
    Love the look of your transom.

    You are doing a beautiful job of your boat.
    Thanks, cant wait till it end of next week when its all striped because thats when ill see it all take shape








    I forgot to mention that i counted my strips and ive 150 of them including the white pine accent strips. I run a tape measure along the widest form and it came to 1600mm. The strips are 19mm so i divided the 1600mm by 19mm which left me with 84 so ive worked it out that ill need 84 strips for this build. Infact, ill need even less because this is the widest part i measured so ill prob get away with using about 75 so that leaves me with strips for another build. Can anyone ell me have i worked this out properly because when i was ordering the cedar, i was even told to order more than 14 planks. Thank god i didnt listen to that guy ,lol

  54. #114

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    Sounds like you have plenty provided they are long enough to do the boat from end-to-end! There is usually some waste due to breakage, bad strips or faulty milling but it should be no more than 20% IMHO. 1600 mm would be about right for a round-hulled boat with around 1065 mm beam.
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

  55. #115

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    On tues i went out to strip my boat and my new stapler broke and my father took the other one 200miles away with him . I ended up just tidying up my stem planing/sanding it and taped all the forms up.

    I also bought some wood glue for the strips and i was suprised at how much it cost. I was expecting to pay around 7euro for 500ml but it was 12 euro when i went to the till. Im wondering now will the 500ml do for the whole job or will i need to get more.

    I phoned to order the epoxy today and they imformed me that they have stopped selling it in the 23.8kg so now ill have to buy it in 11.8kg so hopefully ill get away with just using the one. I built a canoe at the end of last year and its longer than this boat by 3ft and i got away with using 2 3kgs so i think the 11.8kg will do.



    Yesterday i got a few hours at striping the boat thou i had yet another problem with another new stapler. I have 14mm staples and the new stapler said that it can take 14mm staples but when i got out to do the job, they just wouldnt fit so i had to drive back into town and get my money back and go to another store to get another new one but thankfully this one works properly.

    I screwed the sheerline strip to the forms and didnt have no problems with setting it. I was reading gill gillpatricks canoe book before i went out and he advises that i should let the excess glue dry in instead of wiping it off because it is difficult to get off. I took his advice for the inside of the hull but im now sitting wondering should i have because i wiped it of the front and its not as bad as i thought it would be. When i got home i read over my booklet i got with the plans and it says that i had to wipe it all of with a damp cloth. Why does gill say one thing and newfound say another.

    I dont have any pics of where im at now but ill try and get some tomorrow. Im well pleased with all the colours of the strips including the white pine as it really stands out. Im in 2 minds to put some white pine in my football strips that ill do when out next.

    Im away at the weekend for a football match in glasgow for Glasgow Cetic verses rangers so i wont be able to get at it untill at least tue or wed. I wish this match hadnt been on this date because now im on a wee run of getting this striped and now ive to leave it for a few days

    Ill also be buying the epoxy at 11.kg when on my travels and if ive enough left, ill pick up the fiberglass. Im hoping that the epoxy will fit on the car because ill be taking the misses and the kids with me and hopefully theres room, if not, i might put the misses on the bus and stick the seatbelt around the epoxy,lol




    Total cost so far 707.50 euro
    time spent 66hours

  56. #116
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    Your jinx with tools....

    Hopefully, it will end soon.

    Good luck at the game.

    Looking forward to your next pics!

  57. #117

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    Im a bit worried about the front of the boat here because it looks to me that theres a inward bump happening but i could be wrong as this might be the way its to curve.

















    At this form below , it is sitting out abit where it curves where my finger is i stopped stapling it because when i was stapling it, i was getting an s shape again and it was going against the naturel curve












  58. #118

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    Looking good so far.
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  59. #119
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    Rowing boats often curve the wrong way there.

    Its not a good pic, but here you can see piglets boards bending the wrong way on the far side a foot back from the nose.

    Ive just looked piglet and its concave there by at least 1/2 an inch


    I would have a very careful look at your plans to see if its supposed to be like that, and if it is, get it stapled pronto!
    Last edited by No Idea; 27th-April-2012 at 10:13 PM.

  60. #120
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    I love the way your boats coming together!

    All that preparation and then it happens seemingly in minutes!

    Cant wait to see it sanded

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