Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Robson Brooks 16' - Review

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cleckhuddersfax, W Yorkshire
    Posts
    148

    Default Robson Brooks 16' - Review

    Robson Brooks 16' - Amerlite material ( looks and feels like carbon fibre )

    I thought I'd post a few lines to leave a review of the Robson Brooks 16' - a german manufactured classic designed open boat in a lightweight material.

    I've had this boat for about 6 weeks now after buying it second hand. The previous owner had owned the boat for about 6 months from new and had only launched it twice due to an injury. The boat was as new when I got my hands on it

    I've paddled an Old Town Discovery and Wenonah Prospector before, so these are my only comparisons. I had my heart set on a Mad River Explorer 16 RX, but when I saw this boat, and managed to secure it cheaper than the Mad River with extras, the Explorer went out of the window!

    Although I'm an active sea kayaker my open boat paddling mainly consists of local rivers, canals, Lake District lakes and Scottish Lochs. I'm not a serious white water canoeist (yet).

    First impressions are good. I've paddled it about half a dozen times now both solo and tandem on moving water and local canals. The boat handles well with 1 or 2 paddlers and Ive got to say its pretty fast. It tracks well and turns well and the initial and secondary stability are predicatable and forgiving. I've had it out in breezy conditions too and the windage seems good.



    The previous owner had fitted the boat with numerous bits and bobs including Yak buoyancy bladders to the bow and stern, decent length painters to bow and stern, spare paddle holder and numerous attachment points for storage whilst touring.




    When I picked the boat up, the previous owner pointed out the protectors on the gunnels which are actually NOOKIE roof bar protectors bungied to storage points on the boat. He told me that he's fitted them to protect the boat and ash gunnels whilst putting in and extracting from his local canal. I must admit I was a bit sceptical but having now had the benefit of canal side launching when the water level was significantly lower than the tow path, I completely get it now



    The seats are comfortable enough for a decent day's worth of paddling. I've bought a kneeling thwart for solo paddling, although I haven't fitted it yet until I'm happy with where I need it to be for the right trim point.

    Whilst paddling solo, in addition to kneeling, I have used the bow seat and turned the boat to paddle the stern forwards - which works well ( if you know what I mean ) and I've also used the stern seat and paddled forwards. Whilst using the latter method the bow does rise a tad, making it a bit more lively on the turns.



    The hull is rigid and I haven't yet experienced any oil canning from it, although to be fair I haven't loaded it up with lots of kit yet either. It's my intenton to run a few overnighters in it, so I'll keep this post updated as my experience of the boat progresses.

    The boat is lightweight at only 28kgs and is easy to car top alone.



    Overall, I'm extremely pleased with it so far. The boat handles well, it's extremely stable and personally I think it looks pretty good too ( not that appearance matters much ).

    It has exceeded my expectations so far and it's always a talking point with fellow canoeists, usually in the form of 'What's that made of' or ' I haven't seen these before'

    I hope this has been of interest and if you ever see me on the water come and have a look see.
    By sea, river, lake and canal

  2. #2

    Default

    Like the idea of fenders on the gunwales!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cleckhuddersfax, W Yorkshire
    Posts
    148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wavecloud View Post
    Like the idea of fenders on the gunwales!
    Good job somebody can spell gunwales, because I couldn't!!

    I always did believe in Roy Walker's catchphrase and "say what you see", if you get what I mean
    By sea, river, lake and canal

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    1,495

    Default

    I can't see the pictures.
    Can everyone else see them or is it my computer?
    Cheers, Pieface.

    "What's so special about the cheesemakers?"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Carmarthen
    Posts
    857

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pieface View Post
    I can't see the pictures.
    Can everyone else see them or is it my computer?
    Me neither.
    reassuringly negative

  6. #6

    Default

    Me neither. I just assumed it was a stealth design.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  7. #7

    Default

    No pics for me - I thought it was my iPad.!

  8. #8

    Default

    You can see through the white ones.



    Searching around, I've found UK prices ranging from 1395 to 1945. Why such a great difference? I don't know but that amount of money and the boat still weighs in at 28kg - 61 1/2 lbs., where the point in that?

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TGB View Post
    You can see through the white ones.



    Searching around, I've found UK prices ranging from 1395 to 1945. Why such a great difference? I don't know but that amount of money and the boat still weighs in at 28kg - 61 1/2 lbs., where the point in that?

    TGB
    When you can get a custom made composite in C/K for under a grand!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cleckhuddersfax, W Yorkshire
    Posts
    148

    Default Photos not working

    Don't know why the photos have stopped working!

    I've uploaded them to a different online folder now, so hopefully you should see them below.











    Last edited by Submersiblesid; 12th-November-2010 at 04:58 PM.
    By sea, river, lake and canal

  11. #11

    Default

    Nice pics - looks good....how much bit cheeky I know

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wetherby
    Posts
    952

    Default

    That is a thing of real beauty. Looks as though should be nice and easy.

    Tyro
    "I was never lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. " - Daniel Boone

  13. #13

    Default

    It does look nice but still too rich for my wallet moths.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Newcastle Emlyn
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Here at White Water Consultancy we have taken on the distrubution for Robson in the UK -

    " This classic touring canoe is made from the revolutionary Armerlite material. Manufactured with cane seats and waxed ash gunnels for the tarditional look, it also draws on new thermo-composite materials to offer a modern monocoque structure. It's lightweight properties make it much easier for paddlers to carry. Stable in the water, it is spacious and easy to manoeuvre and transport. There is no better canoe for a paddling trip through the wilderness."
    Length: 16 / 488cm
    Width: 36 / 92cm
    Height: 19 / 48cm
    Weight: 61Lbs / 28Kgs
    Capacity: 617Lbs / 280Kgs

    1350 Vinyl gunwhales
    1675 Ash gunwhales

    Hope this information helps


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    kippen
    Posts
    3,073

    Default Robson Brooks 16 ft

    of braw canoe by the look of it,the but for me also is the weight.Too heavy for auld rickety bones mewillie
    "Every action of our lives touches on
    some chord that will vibrate in eternity"

    Edwin Hubbel Chapin

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Emsworth
    Posts
    995

    Default

    It looks close to the shape of an Outlander.....
    Should paddle very well then.
    Richard.
    What a long strange trip its been.......

  17. #17

    Default Stern seat?

    Hi,
    I have own Brooks 16 since one year.

    Stern seat is unstable
    and now I see in your canoe the stern seat is some 20-30 cm more to bow!!!
    How big exactly is the distance from stern to seat in your canoe?

    In my canoe I put an extra thwart between stern seat and center thwart
    but it didn't help.

    Best regards
    Ilmari

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    4,452

    Default

    Painter, is the stern seat unstable because it moves on the hangers?

    If so, you might stabilise the hangers by putting pieces of minicell foam between the hangers and the sides of the boat. One piece of minicell per side. If the foam helps, then glue it in place.

    If you mean that the seat seems unstable because it is mounted very far back in the boat, then you should consider replacing the seat with one mounted farther forward. But even if you do move the rear seat forward, try the minicell foam slabs. The gunwales look thin in the photos, and the foam slabs will reduce stress the hangers impose on the gunwales.

    Just commenting generally on the pictures others posted of the boat, it looks very nice. Perhaps they have curved the gunwales too much. I would have deepened the boat in the center, and cut the bow and stern height a bit lower.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ezwater View Post
    Painter, is the stern seat unstable because it moves on the hangers?

    If so, you might stabilise the hangers by putting pieces of minicell foam between the hangers and the sides of the boat. One piece of minicell per side. If the foam helps, then glue it in place.

    If you mean that the seat seems unstable because it is mounted very far back in the boat, then you should consider replacing the seat with one mounted farther forward. But even if you do move the rear seat forward, try the minicell foam slabs. The gunwales look thin in the photos, and the foam slabs will reduce stress the hangers impose on the gunwales.

    Just commenting generally on the pictures others posted of the boat, it looks very nice. Perhaps they have curved the gunwales too much. I would have deepened the boat in the center, and cut the bow and stern height a bit lower.

    This is a good tip EZwater... i think this happens on my Mega sometimes.

  20. #20

    Default

    Ezwater,
    Thank You for yor informative answer!

    Last spring I changed the hangers.
    Now they are made of aluminium.
    One profil per side.
    I put neoprene between seat and the sides and glued.
    It was better but not enough.

    Sides of the canoe are still moving excessive.
    There is nothing in the construction of sides to make the boat more strong.
    "Armelite" Material alone is too elastic.

    And now I see "Submersiblesid" have Robson 16
    where the stern seat is some 20-30 cm forward.
    Now I would like to know if he is happy with that.
    And where exactly is his stern seat.
    Or have somebody else this canoe
    and could help me?

    Robson 16 is not the dreamcanoe for me.
    But some others I tryed where worse.
    Bell Northwind royalex hade too much oil-canning.
    Robson has none, because of double bottom.

    You are right: bow and stern of Robson are too height.
    It becomes sailboat. Allways going in the wrong direction...

    Fully loaded it is better.

    My dream canoe could be Nova Craft PAL
    But nobody sells it in Finland.

    So I must tune up my Robson as good I can.

    Best regards
    Ilmari

    www.ilmari-rautio.com
    only paintings...

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk England
    Posts
    350

    Default

    The distance from the stern to the back edge of the seat is 122 cm
    Hope that helps.

    Tony

  22. #22

    Default

    Thank You Tony!

    In my Robson the distance is 92 cm!
    Could it be that its made wrong here?
    I bought it new and I know the trim was made here in Finland.



    Best regards
    Ilmari

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    4,452

    Default

    Painter, it's hard for me to make good suggestions about how to stiffen the boat without actually trying it out. I can imagine that the hull material is "too" flexible, but then the sides of my 17' Bluewater Chippewa are thin and flexible, and the sides of my Millbrook, the boat pictured in my avatar, are even thinner.

    A radical solution would be to remove the rear seat, and then put in side panels of either glass cloth, or (lighter) carbon/Kevlar cloth. You'd probably need two concentric layers on each side, going most of the way down the hull and a few inches forward and back of the seat. Then you would install the seat and insert stiffer foam panels behind the hangers.

    But I'm not sure if this would be necessary. Maybe the flexibility won't affect flatwater performance. How much does the bottom of the hull flex or wave? What problems, other than seat sway, do you attribute to the hull's flexibility?

    *****ANOTHER ISSUE is that we may be discussing two different canoe constructions. The Robsons owned by SOTP paddlers are made of a black material with a cloth or cloth-like structure. The canoe in the video (which looks adequately stiff, though the paddlers are not at home in it) is apparently a translucent white material, and while I obviously could not inspect it closely, I did not see an indication of any cloth reinforcement. I guess I'll have to try to recall my German language studies and go to the Robson website.

    OK, their website says "Fiberglass-reinforced plastic with a woven structure increases the strength and stability, both in terms of the shape and performance." So there is fiberglass embedded in the Amerlite, similar to the Twintex used by Esquif. I hope Amerlite is more repairable than Twintex. If the Robson 16 hull seems flexible to some, one solution would be to use more material and make the boat heavier. But it's no lighter now than some comparable Royalex boats.
    Last edited by ezwater; 5th-December-2010 at 03:42 AM.

  24. #24

    Default

    I have moved the seat 30 cm forward.
    As Tony said distance should be 122 cm between stern and the seat.

    It looks better
    and most important
    in my dry test it is now more stable - the construction.
    In real life I know only after 5 months!
    Have to wait ice is gone.

    Ezwater,
    there is an test of Robson Brooks 16 in german site:
    http://www.kanumagazin.de/test-techn...son-brooks-16/
    It's not very favourable.
    But I could imagine for paddling canals
    it could be good choice.
    And there is a lot of room.
    Easily fits all neaded for two weeks for two paddlers.

    Regards
    Ilmari

    www.ilmari-rautio.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cleckhuddersfax, W Yorkshire
    Posts
    148

    Default

    Hi Painter,
    Sorry for not posting sooner.
    An obvious question to ask, but is your Robson a Brooks 16?
    The distance on my Robson is also 122cm from the stern to the rear of the seat and the boat is rock solid.
    I wonder how yours ended up 30cm out and suffering from movement.
    How old is your boat - I wonder whether Robson fitted the seat in that position on older models and have since become aware of the problem that you are experiencing.
    As I mentioned in my original post, when I paddle solo using the stern seat the bow does rise a little, but not a great deal, but this doesn't make it unstable and it is no different to other boats I have paddled.
    I hope by moving the seat that it improves your confidence in your boat as I'm extremely happy with my Robson.
    By sea, river, lake and canal

  26. #26

    Default

    I see that your boat has metal hangers. Mine has ash hangers and the seat rails contact the sides of the hull which prevents movement/flexibility at this point. The whole of my boat is quite rigid.

  27. #27

    Default

    Hi Submersiblesid,

    Yes it is Robson Brooks 16.
    The trim was made here in Finland.
    I asked them why 92 cm, as in England 122 cm.
    They said because it's easier to steer when stern seat is more in the back.

    My guess is that the contruction becomes more stable
    when the seat is where the double bottom is.
    So the 122 cm is right.
    I hope.
    But have to wait 5 months.
    If the world warming doesn't happen more rapidly...

    I'am paddling tandem.
    Solo it's certainly totally other story.

    Happy to hear you are happy with your Robson.

    Ilmari

  28. #28

    Default

    Adrian,
    I glued sheets of neoprene between seats and aluminium hangers.
    As I suppose Ezwater proposed to me.

  29. #29

    Default

    sorry,
    I meaned sheets of neoprene between aluminium hangers and the sides of canoe.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    4,452

    Default

    Painter, neoprene is softer than might be desirable for the purpose. Minicell is stiffer. But don't change it unless you are sure it isn't tolerable the way it is.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Horley, Surrey
    Posts
    1,923

    Default

    If these boats are built of a Twintex like material, how are they repaired in the UK if you break them?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bolton, Lancs
    Posts
    302

    Default Brookes

    Quote Originally Posted by wavecloud View Post
    When you can get a custom made composite in C/K for under a grand!
    Tell me where you can get a comp canoe in carbon Kevlar for under a grand ?

  33. #33

    Default Here }

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    Tell me where you can get a comp canoe in carbon Kevlar for under a grand ?
    Mega Outlander, www.surfkayaks.com

    And as for repairing twintex, forget it!

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bolton, Lancs
    Posts
    302

    Default Composite

    Quote Originally Posted by surfkayaks.com View Post
    Mega Outlander, www.surfkayaks.com

    And as for repairing twintex, forget it!
    Lol, I'm not talking about fibreglass. If you can get a carbon Kevlar Outlander 16 for under a grand then ill have 2 !

  35. #35

    Default c/kev outlander

    call me, 07774-244649

    malcolm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •