14.5' Big Lassie (Dreamcatcher Boats) Build Thread

[Stretch]

...Continued from Student Build

I'll post alot fo detailed information to a blog I created "Canoe Do It?"

The overall idea of this project is stressed on building a canoe that paddles well on a TIGHT budget.



I am happy with the design, but I plan to glue the breast hooks to the keelson, and to make the flooring go to the last pair of ribs(one set longer then photo) to all for my pack to sit safely in the canoe.



The main selling feature was weight and construction. The whole boat is lashed together. This would make it easy to fix any problems that arise and it is more eco-friendly in the end. Well here goes nothing.....

Here are the costs to date:
Plans...............$58.98
2"X10"X16'.......$13.17 Spruce - Stringers, Gunwhales, Keelson
2"X6"X8'..........$13.17 Pine - Ribs
2"X3"X4'..........$3.57 Pine - Ribs
3/4" Ply ..........Free Exterior - Stems and Form
Glue...............$10.57 Polyurethane
Nylon Chord.....$5.57 (Mason Line)
Total----------$~105

It only took an afternoon to cut everything, most of it was spent ripping the ribs and planning the cuts careflly around the half dozen small knots in the 2x10. The only wood I'm missing now is for the inwhales and outwhales. Oh and the cut wood just made the 200km treck from the table saw in dundas(dad's home) to my oshawa home.

The three large strips to the left are the scrap from the 2X10. The rest is usable clear wood. I got an extra 6 stringers, 2 more and I could almost build two boats from it.


Here are the 2X3 and 2X6 before turning them into ribs. I got the majority from the left hand side and might get a couple of 3-4 foot long ribs from the right.


Looking for wood for boat building is a whole new adventure. Not only does it have to be straight, but the grain has to go the right directions both ways, and be knot free. Took about 2 hours of searching through home depot to find the right boards, or at least the best I was going to get.

[Stretch]

She's beginning to take shape. I have found it important to leave the stringers relatively loose because the formers are not quite the perfect shape and cause some bowing if attached to tight. Once the boat is released from the formers any bowing should be released, this is the joy of the lashings, it allows the canoe to flex to a natural form. You can see this bow as a flat looking spot along the near side gunwhale. A couple of ribs have also been bent and are resting on top.

I glued the stems to the keel to add some strength to it. This is not done in the videos but I can't see any harm.

The ribs are coming along great here is my steam box



Here are a bunch of ribs lashed in. In the video's he only puts one rib in between a pair of formers, I am debating puting a set in between and also at each former. Pre-bend them on the former and lash in after.

It was getting late tonight and I started to break a couple of ribs so I called it a night. Here is a another photo.

You'll notice that I left out a pair of formers, the set on either side of the center one. This is because I wanted more space to put the ribs in and the strings were not touching it. The only formers with holes to attach the strings are the center and 3rd from the center.
I wish I had gotten more photo's as I progressed but it just went togethor so fast. Your looking at 2.5-3 hours of work. Be fore warned WEAR GLOVES working to get the nylon chord tight along with steamed hands= large blisters.

To do:
Lash in last of ribs
Fair ends
Inwhales
Covering
Outwhales

[www.dreamcatcherboats.com]

hey Stretch, it's good to see you talking about my boats. I like the build pics you've got up so far. It's always cool to see the work that people do: When I put up the video originally, I wasn't sure how it would work out, but after a few years and nothing but good comments, I guess I won't change it. Which brings me to the next point: the video is the same, but the boats have evolved. I'm hoping that you're still at the stage where you can consider a couple of changes: what I do with the ribs now is I bring them up past the top of the gunwales, and now I secure them there with copper nails, or even dowels or bamboo chopsticks. I use the extra ribs which I have cut to fill in the gap between them at the gunwales. I glue the "filler" pieces in, and then I cover the whole issue with the inwale and glue it in, too. This gives me a finished laminated gunwale which is an inch or more thick, and stiff enough that I can attach rowlocks to it. You are right in adding extra ribs to the Big Lassie, and I think that is specified in the scantlings section of the plans. One per foot is fine, a few more can't hurt. I'm not sure about using mason line for lashing, though, because I haven't specifically tried that. But out of all the things I have tried, I have not found anything as good as artificial sinew from Tandy leather. Other things work for a while, and then start deteriorating. It is a waxed multi strand nylon lashing. Do not ever use polyester: no good. Spruce roots and cedar bark rope would work just fine.

[www.dreamcatcherboats.com]

A word to the wise, about the skin: a man once told me, as I was waffling about deciding what to buy in the hardware store, "you never be sorry you got good tools". You might be able to save a few bucks getting skin of a different material, but then you'll have to worry about every obstacle you come across, and leaving it upside down on the beach while birds peck a hole through it, or worry about leaving it on top of your car all summer, or being able to take your dog with you or whatever.Not to mention ramming it through the bush to that distant lake, or even flying off the top of the car at fifty miles an hour,or,or... do you hear the voice of (unfortunate)experience here? If the stuff will stop grenade fragments and flak, it will stop barnacles.( By the way, I have the ballistic nylon)

[www.dreamcatcherboats.com]

On to the decks: if you're not going to lash them on, make sure you peg them in, and, lately, I've been making them much longer: I decided that the open ends were a waste of space, and so now with the longer decks I can have hatches,whether I use lumber or cloth,and also it gives that extra feeling of safety when you go through rotten water,and it makes it easier to close the whole thing off with a skirt if you feel like it. Next time I'll get into sailing rigs.. Cheers, Brian Chandler, www.dreamcatcherboats.com 604 873 0082

[Andresico]

cool build Stretch. I love it

[Stretch]

Sorry for the dissapearance I went home to North Bay where I am rarely in the house for any period of time. I will be back on it tonight.

I will do what you mentioned about the ribs and gunwales. It makes perfect sense and should make for a sturdier craft. I must say the more I think of it the more I love this design. The amount of leeway when building is great, and you need few tools. So far I have used:
Table saw to rip all lumber day 1.
Since then in Oshawa I have only used a block plane, sandpaper, Japanese saw and a jigsaw. (And a thickness planer, but only because I miscut the rib thickness)

[Stretch]

PROGRESS! Ribs are in, Canoe is off the form!


Just removes from the mold. The gunwhales have not been pegged, nor the ribs trimmed.


Still needs to be faired but it's trimmed and pegged.




One rib is still not trimmed, it didn't quite pull in tight so I re-glued it.


Everyone is home and a car needed to go in the garage. Canoe does fit nicely on the vibe though

A word on design... IT'S AWESOME!
Upon popping the boat from the form, every odd bend in the gunwales or stringers relaxed and the boat took an amazing form. The boat weighs in at around 10-12lbs currently. I am debating adding more ribs, right not they are every 17" I may just add them to the center seating areas. This boat looks AMAZING. I can't believe how fast it has come together. I changed the front most ribs from have a block drop down to the keel to really working a rib to run all the way down to the keel. Tomorrow I'm going to fair the boat and possible lash ribs in between.

Time: About 2 days but I ended up having to plane all the ribs narrower which took several hours.

[ShagRock]

Nice progress! Was that your first go at steam bending wood and how flexible..workable did you find the pine for this?

[Stretch]

yes it was my first time steam bending wood. it went great. I found that the pine bend and then some, I tried being a couple of the 5/16" ribs I misscut, some of them made the bend, but I broke two, so I planed them down to a mixture of 1/4" to 3/16", and also a pair of 1/8" hand planed one that tapered to 1/4" at the ends for the furthest outer ribs. These created a radius of about 2" in the center. Overall I think I broke 3 ribs, but they had been out of steam for too long and I really was asking for it. I found that they could be steamed for about 10 minutes before they became brittle again. About 6-8 min for the 1/4" ribs was perfect. I'll try to get more pictures of bending the ribs tomorrow when I make the extra's/filler ribs. As I say I don't think you can build an easier canoe with such nice lines in this time frame. I can understand why I though the video's were a bit vague to me(wanted to know all the intimate details), there really is nothing to it. I think this is one of the closest boats to building a birch bark without the bark as you can come. I think if you were skilled with a crooked knife and axe you could build one with just those tools.

[Stretch]

The inwhales are in I added some ribs to the bow and stern. two of which are still "clamped" in.


The boat bends a little more nicely on the right then the left. I have been working to get this nicer. I have found that pouring boiling water on the bends on the ribs helps to get them to bend a bit more of less. Doing this and tying them off with ropes seems to be working great. Good news is the more bow on the right means I can use less of a J on the left , but that isn't preferable. More Tinkering and it should be nearly symmetric.



Here are the additional ribs to go in the center of the boat. These are just the 3/4 ply formers used from the mold. The should pop up nicely through the gunwhales and inwhales.

As you can see the pine bends around the 3" radius nicely. The single one is just sitting loose in the middle for no reason in particular, it will easily fit into the boat still. The other is a group of 4 on the second largest former just to keep they're shape for the trip back to Oshawa. The outer most rip is nearly identical to the one the center former would have produced, slightly wider at the tips.

[Stretch]

All the ribs are in


I grabbed some more pictures of my pegs. I carved them all from a rib which broke (first one, wasn't steamed enough). I glues the ribs to the gunwhales and clamped them rather then lash them. It has make the boat very solid. The pegs had a slight tapper and were a force fit.


I am still debating whether or not to fill the gaps between the ribs with extra rib material or leave it to allow me to tie in packs.


You can also see I had to changed to a coloured nylon chord. I bought the store out of rolls and they only had the colour left. 4 ribs are the same orange, symmetric about the center Rib.

Twarts: I can't decide on how many or where to put then in. The canoe is mainly going to be a solo canoe for trips, so It will have me and my pack. This puts me behind center with my pack in front allowing for a center twart, but I don't know if that would be enough to keep the boat rigid. I was thinking maybe 3, Center one around where a bow seat would be and one where a stern seat would be. Feedback please and thanks.

[www.dreamcatcherboats.com]

All the ribs are in


I grabbed some more pictures of my pegs. I carved them all from a rib which broke (first one, wasn't steamed enough). I glues the ribs to the gunwhales and clamped them rather then lash them. It has make the boat very solid. The pegs had a slight tapper and were a force fit.


I am still debating whether or not to fill the gaps between the ribs with extra rib material or leave it to allow me to tie in packs.


You can also see I had to changed to a coloured nylon chord. I bought the store out of rolls and they only had the colour left. 4 ribs are the same orange, symmetric about the center Rib.

Twarts: I can't decide on how many or where to put then in. The canoe is mainly going to be a solo canoe for trips, so It will have me and my pack. This puts me behind center with my pack in front allowing for a center twart, but I don't know if that would be enough to keep the boat rigid. I was thinking maybe 3, Center one around where a bow seat would be and one where a stern seat would be. Feedback please and thanks.

there are two thwarts, situated at 48" from either end, generally. In my latest boat, because I extended the decks/breasthooks, AND because I laminated the gunwhales as I explained previously, there is only one thwart which is also the seatback, and as usual, it pivots for comfort. Which brings me to another thing: Other people use bars or something accross the floors to brace their feet if they want to add torque to their paddling. I find what works for me is to put a camping foamy on the floor: it gives me something comfy to sit on, and lean against,and wherever I put my feet, they stick, which means I'm not constrained by braces, and I can even paddle very comfortably lying down or sitting straight up if I want, which is important because I have a bad back.Cheers, Brian

[Stretch]

All packed up and ready for the 300km trek north to home. It was a bit of a gamble doing this without the skin but the boat survived, marked only with a few bug casualties.


Even though I have more ribs then called for, bumping up the weight, they're aren't many 14 footers you can go this with


I opted for a center thwart for portaging and another pair about 18" from the ends. I know that isn't what you recommended Brian, but being young and restless... I can't sit still long, and I plan on paddling with a traditional single bladed paddle while kneeing.


Still on the hunt for covering. I know Ballistic Nylon is great stuff:
YouTube - Skin-on-Frame Kayak Durability

but I want to keep the costs way down. I like the look of this:




He got it from walmart Heavy Duty Vinyl... No where near as durable.
21st Century Kayaks
and the video I got the pictures from:
YouTube - Building the 10' Toibote Kayak

[www.dreamcatcherboats.com]

I love what you've done so far, Stretch!You're going to have huge fun with that thing! And don't worry about kneeling in the boat: I have a friend here who does that, and it amazes me how well he handles his boat. Me, I prefer lying down and lazing along...About the skin, just in case: that vinyl is really cool stuff, just be sure you have a lot of duct tape along with you. Otherwise, we've just decided to knock $30 off the price of the skin to anyone who buys the video... Modern times.. Cheers, Brian

[Stretch]

I uploaded a full album of all build pictures.

Stretch Big Lassie Build

I gave the canoe a test run this weekend by wrapping it up in a blue tarp. Worked great, as you say Brian kneeling worked fine. Now to save up for some covering....

[Stretch]

Well I have been busy building. I can definitely say it's an addiction. The big lassie paddles great and is covered in clear vinyl. unfortunately I'm back in Oshawa(Canoe is in North Bay) and can't get a picture of it to post. I thought I would start with an explanation...

THE SEARCH FOR PERFECTION
The secret of boat building is that perfection is unattainable. However proud you may be of your boat, in your heart of hearts you'll know that she could have been better- longer and faster, or less sheer at the stern, or maybe the chines a touch narrower to sit her lower in the water. You have to build another and get it right this time. Boat building is a magical passion. The only realistic cure is lumber and time. -Robert Morris

My boats are no where near perfect but each is better then the last, and a lesson has been learned along the way


The garage yesterday around noon. You don't really notice the mess you make until you take a picture of it. Shortly after this I cleaned up while waiting for the stems to dry.

Added to the list is a 9'2" recovery Kayak from Robert Morris's book, building skin on frame boats.


9'2" Recovery kayak


The killer ribs to bend.


With stern closest you can see the rear deck beams lashed on. I have the knee brace laminating and it should be in shortly. Then all that is left is the cockpit rim. I'm not sure whether to use plywood or make the bends.

And another canoe, this time 16' this one will get ballistic nylon for sure.
I wanted it to be a fast solo canoe, I gave it 12" depth at beam, 30" beam, 16" bow height and 2" of rocker along the length of the canoe.http://www.bearmountainboats.com/onlinestore/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=127 I learned a lot building the first one, so I figured I'd apply it to a second. Now I'm learning a lot building the second one, please don't let there be a third. (Thinking cedar canvas next...)


The stems being glues in, dowels have not been drilled yet.


Experimenting with the rib and stringers to make sure the fabric doesn't come to close to the ribs, and trying to create a somewhat flat bottom for some stability.


And the first 9 ribs go in. I'm going with 3/4" ribs on 5" centers. That way if one breaks while in the bush it won't be as detrimental. I must say cedar is 100x easier to bend then the 1.5" pine, and it seems to hold it's shape far better. Much MUCH less spring back, and the ribs seem to be stiffer after.


I need a bigger garage....


Around 10pm, stringers are zip tied on and ribs heights have been adjusted.

Now the ribs took on a more rounded bottom then I would have liked. I was thinking I would attach the bottom stringers, then press them down a little to get the bulge out the sides. In the book Morris warns about pulling the ribs up in the middle to create sheer because it will hog the canoe(the keel bends up and the boat likes pinched in the middle, terrible to paddle). Pushing them down may give me more stability, but it may give more rocker and destroy any sheer I had created. Please feedback!

[TGB]

Great stuff. Keep it coming.

TGB

[Andresico]

Build more

But remember to take photos of the finished canoes. So far no finished canoe photos. Only beautifull structures.

You could also go for a 6 pers. Greenland rowing boat. Same building process. Just a wider beam.

[stu9000]

there is something gorgeous about a SoF kayak.
Light, strong and beautiful.
That video of the guy proving how strong his kayak was showed a really nice example of a sea kayak. I wonder what he doped the material with to make it so strong.

I made mine about 14 foot to fit in my garage (v envious of your double garage) but now I wish i had made mine a bit longer, it would have been more managable in the surf, although I was very pleased how it kept its bow up when surfing into wave troughs.

Im also a bit frustrated by the delicacy of the boat. Whether strapping it to the roof of the car, moving it about in the garage or paddling up a shallow river I tend to get a bit worried about holing the pvc skin.

This is why my current build is a stitch and glue canoe. Bit heavier but much more durable over time.

I was thinking of sorting out sailing rig and daggerboard next season. I could use the SoF kayak as an outrigger, using the 2 canoes together to make a Proa!

Great build. Lets see it on the water!!!

[Stretch]

Ya I will grab some photo's of the finished canoe. Right now it it as my mother's home in North Bay which about 4 hours away from my university home and 5 hours away from my father's home. I will get there in the mean time I have a picture of my knee brace all clamped up. I came across while uploading pictures of my next build.



I tell you the life of an un-employed(until Wednesday) university student has been great until now, travelling across Ontario building canoes and kayaks. But it is coming to an end. Since I have weekends off I'm going to continue on an build a cedar canvas redbird. My dad finally convinced me to step it up and build a "real" canoe (Our definitions vary). I've just finished cutting out all the ribs and am working on the form. I know this spreads me out to 1 finished canoe, 1 nearly finished Kayak, 1 nearly finished canoe, and material gathering for a third canoe on the way. I feel kind of crappy about it, I'm getting the canoe fit to travel, the kayak is headed to north bay with me on Tuesday hopefully done, the 2nd canoe will make the trip on Thursday night along with all the wood and tools to continue thinking about making a third one. I'm really stoked to try and surf the kayak on lake nipissing sometime this month.

Stu - I'm 90% that the Greenland kayak in that video is covered with ballistic nylon sealed with a 2 part polyeurethane. I'm pretty sure it's in the comments for it, but i could be confused with another video.

[Stretch]

Here is the Recovery Kayak, sanded, oiled all it needs it the final covering.





About to make the 4 hours trip to North Bay.


Me(looking tired) and the temporary covering just make sure all the stringers are smooth and the boat paddles nice.


Nice tight, perfect fit. Better then I though it would be.


Four strokes to hull speed...

and man it turns sharp, all you need is a slight lean


Pictures of finished canoe to follow tomorrow night, got carried away today testing the recovery kayak.