Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Swift Dumoine

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    260

    Default Swift Dumoine

    Makers Spec




    Designed by John Winters
    Length: 16’ 4”
    Gunwale Width: 37”
    Waterline Width: 33.5“
    Bow Height: 21”
    Stern Height: 20”
    Centre Depth: 15”
    Bow Rocker: 3”
    Stern Rocker: 2”
    Hull Shape: Asymmetrical
    Optimum Load Range ~340-600 lbs.
    Industry Capacity ~ 1050 lbs.
    Royalex 74 lbs
    Guide Fusion 56 lbs
    Kevlar Fusion 48 lbs



    Makers Write Up
    The Dumoine will amaze you with how it can thread it’s way down rapids you never thought you could run before and catch eddies like a pro. You probably won’t even remember how easily you paddled the 20 miles of flat water to get to the fun part of the trip! Of course, all flat water isn’t perfectly flat and when it isn’t, the Dumoine might just be the only boat on the lake.
    Last edited by Canoe Guru; 19th-October-2008 at 07:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    581

    Thumbs up

    I recently bought a Swift Dumoine. As I understand the Dumoine comes standard equiped with a kneeling thwart and mine has vinyl gunwales and skid plates (optional).
    I bought the canoe second hand. The skid plates were already there, and would be a good choice anyway, since the canoe is designed to be used on white water.

    When I bought it I only had tested it on flat water, both tandem and solo. Last weekend I took it to the Canche and had the opportunity to also test it on small white water features like waves and eddies. It proved to be a very responsive canoe. When paddled with two paddlers it tracks reasonably well and it turns on a dime. Paddled solo it's a joy to take it into the current. It rides high and has good stability. I haven't fixed a kneeling mat yet, so I shifted in the boat when trying to get the boat into a fast spin but I feel confident that with a bit more friction I can make the boat do anything I want it to do. The feature that causes the boat to be so responsive also has a downside to it: with sidewind you notice the effect of the amount of rocker and the lack of sharp entry lines (also as a result of the rocker). The boat tends to drift in strong side winds.

    The frontseat of the Dumoine is placed close to the middle of the boat. This gives the front paddler a lot of leg space and it enables the canoe to ride over waves instead of cutting through them. Most of the time I was paddling with Busje303. Our considerate weight difference caused some issues with the trim of the boat. When I was sitting in the front we needed to trim the boat with a bag of water in the nose because sitting so close to the center of the boat my feather weight wasn't enough to get the nose of the canoe down. With the heavier paddler in the front the boat handled very well, because as a result of the position of the frontseat the weight of the front paddler isn't on the nose of the canoe. The only thing we noticed that at one of the weirs (with mostly air in the backwash) that we passed we took noticebly more water with Busje03 in the front than with me and the bag of water.

    I still have to paddle it with a load, but after our trip on the Canche I feel this boat comes pretty close to what I was looking for. Good enough tracking and manouevrability with a airly dry ride if paddled by two and very good handling in white(-ish) water paddles solo. Paddled solo it will be hard work in windy conditions, but I only intend to paddle it solo on winding stretches (using it's agility) and with a load (so I can trim it). If I want to paddle solo in other conditions I can always use my Advantage.

    One note about construction: At one point I got a bit over enthusiastic and tried to leap over the stern onto the back seat . Without a fixed mat that resulted in me skidding forward, hitting he kneeling thwart with my shins. As a result parts of the supports broke of. That shows the contruction of the thwart supports is kinda flimsy and could be done beter, but on the other hand: by breaking it absorbed the energy, and instead of breaking the thwart supports I could also have seriously injured my leg(s).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wolfsberg in Southern Austria
    Posts
    33

    Default A strong alternative to the Prospector!

    Here she is on the river Reuss, near Bremgarten, in Switzerland.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Wolfsberg in Southern Austria
    Posts
    33

    Default Swift Dumoine


    Swift Dumoine kevlar fusion


    Swift Dumoine RX
    You never paddle the same river twice.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leiden, Netherlands, Netherlands
    Posts
    88

    Default Dave Elderton's Swift Dumoine



    Source: http://microship.com/flotilla/elderton.html



    Dave’s ‘high tech’ rig. The canoe is a 16.5 ft. Swift Dumoine in Kevlar. It sports 92 sq. ft. sail with components from a Tasar dingy, including a rotating wing mast. The single 12 ft. outrigger is a production piece from Easy Rider. This canoe was clocked at 12 knots (22kph)!

    Source: http://www.wavelengthmagazine.com/2006/as06canoe.html

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    4,436

    Default

    I had an odd exchange with another ww paddler on myccr.com. He had paddled a Dumoine quite a bit, and said that the boat was not nearly as "dry" as he would like when running through waves and holes. I expressed surprise because the Dumoine is quite deep and fairly full in the bow. He gave comparative descriptions of the Dumoine and other tandems under the same conditions.

    I could not draw any conclusions, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. As a psychologist, I don't try to force resolution of differing points of view. I decided to accept his report as a legitimate expression of his experience.

    Looking at the Dumoine photos in this thread, the bow is deep, and full, but I don't see any flare. It seems possible that if the Dumoine is not slowed to current speed in waves and holes, the bow may plunge enough for water to come over the gunwales. Personally, I slow my boats when nearing really large waves and holes. But with a loaded boat, such slowing is not always effective.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ezwater View Post
    I had an odd exchange with another ww paddler on myccr.com. He had paddled a Dumoine quite a bit, and said that the boat was not nearly as "dry" as he would like when running through waves and holes. I expressed surprise because the Dumoine is quite deep and fairly full in the bow. He gave comparative descriptions of the Dumoine and other tandems under the same conditions.

    I could not draw any conclusions, but he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. As a psychologist, I don't try to force resolution of differing points of view. I decided to accept his report as a legitimate expression of his experience.

    Looking at the Dumoine photos in this thread, the bow is deep, and full, but I don't see any flare. It seems possible that if the Dumoine is not slowed to current speed in waves and holes, the bow may plunge enough for water to come over the gunwales. Personally, I slow my boats when nearing really large waves and holes. But with a loaded boat, such slowing is not always effective.
    Since my first post about the Dumoine I've used it solo on Belgian streams, mostly solo, and on the Tarn in France, tandem with load. In my first post I wrote the Dumoine has a fairly dry ride. As you noted there's indeed no flare in the bow. I think the high bow and the location of the bow paddler account for most of the dryness. The Dumoine has a asymmetrical design and although there is some volume in the bow most of the volume is located further back. There's a trade off between effective forward paddling and providing a dry ride.

    This is a very basic canoe, No flare, No tumblehome, It's not an attractive canoe to look at, but I like it.

    What other tandems did that other paddler compare the Dumoine to?
    Enjoy your body,
    use it every way you can.
    don’t be afraid of it,
    or what other people think of it,
    it’s the greatest instrument you’ll ever own.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,662

    Default

    John Winters (the guy who designed the Dumoine) apparently describes the composite version of the Dumoine (which is sleeker than the Rx version) as the "modern Prospector": more bow rocker than stern rocker, more depth in the bows than the stern, asymmetrical. IIRC, somewhere on MYCCR, Winters also suggest that if he'd put the Prospector name on his Dumoine, he'd be a far wealthier man

    MYCCR is not a bad place to start for anyone wanting more user-reports on this hull.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leiden, Netherlands, Netherlands
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Now that I've posted Dave's pictures on this forum, I might as well post the comments he posted on the Yahoo "sailing_canoes" group here:

    Re: [sailing_canoes] Re: Tripper Clipper canoe/Sailing rig and amas?

    Well... I am no expert but here is how I see it. I suppose narrow beam at the waterline would be good for speed when paddling, and small rocker would help tracking while paddling in windy conditions. My experience sailing and paddling a 16.5 foot swift Dumoine, with 92sf of sail almost exclusively on salt water has probably confirmed this. It is a river tripping boat with 3" rocker bow, 2" rocker stern and is 37" wide at center. It is a little slower than the Clipper tripper when paddled, and is a real handful paddled in windy conditions. Things change when you add sail though. There is no problem with tracking in wind, as the leeboard and rudder completely change the handling of a sailing canoe. When you need to tack, with the extra rocker you can come about smartly without a lot of extra resistance from the hull. The extra width gives you more stability to handle the sail without amas, and if you have amas it will tend to give the boat lift, and it will plane more easily.

    In winds of say 12 to 18 Knots my boat will do 7-10 knots with just me aboard, skipping across the wave tops, the bow completely out of the water. I think that the wide hull is helping speed by creating lift. With two on board things slow a bit, but she will still get up and go in the right conditions. With full camping gear and two sailors aboard we are basically stuck at hull speed, about 5-6 knots no matter how hard she is pushed. The bow comes up, the stern sinks down very close to the water line, and we make a huge wave like a power boat.

    What I gather from this experience is that you can not look to the traditional canoe paddling wisdom for answers to the which boat question. More rocker seems to be a good thing for handling in waves as well.
    The windage question is a good one. I think you would be better off with lower freeboard, if you are willing to use a heavy duty spray skirt most of the time, or better yet make a hard deck like the Kruger's. I have not noticed much problem with windage until wind is at 20 knots or more, then I can lose enough momentum in a tack so that the boat will not come about. The sails would be reefed at that point, and the ratio of sail area to hull windage starts looking iffy. At 20 knots I am generally looking for somewhere to land if the wind is in my face in any case! I have a spray skirt that covers the mid section of the boat. With the single ama we have to move with every tack in windy conditions, and a full skirt just gets in the way. I have found that loading the boat and positioning the bow sailor is critical for wave handling. Keep the weight centered and out of the bow and it will be a much drier ride. My bow partner will generally not sit in the bow seat, but just aft of it on the thwart, when we are sailing to windward in a blow (Another point for a fuller bow.)

    Hope you can make sense of all that.

    Dave E
    Source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailin.../message/12505

    Regards,

    Jaap

  10. #10

    Default

    A few weeks ago I started to build this canoe, and I'm interesting how it will swim in relation to my current Yaho 2 ...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •