Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: New sail set up.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default New sail set up.

    Having used my simple sail a couple of times I can definitely see the benefit, however being solo the simple sail was a problem to use. I liked the one that Endless River sell but the positioning of the thwart to support it would be a problem. Depending on load etc I would want it in different positions.

    So remembering this advice

    An easy sail clamp: The sail mast is formed from a split poling pole. The part with the button is the mast. The one with the hole (for the button) is boom. The mast clamp is two pieces of wood (30-35mm wide, 15-20mm thick, length = seat depth + 20mm + 40mm). These clamp over/under the seat with coach bolt & wing nuts, and have a mast hole through. A simple foot plate can be used if needed. It can even be bonded in.
    The sail is arab dhow style, the mast goes up a sleeve on one edge, with the boom being at an angle more like a Y, up at a diagonal. The boom fits in a sleeve and with a tension string using the pole's button hole. The last corner of the sail has the control string ('sheet') for the sail. [you hold this ]
    From to this page
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/outfitting.html

    I made this.



    The wood was just stuff I had in the garage. It is thicker than the advice but that helps to make the sail / pole steadier. The bolts have eyes at the end which makes them easier to tighten by hand. At the moment it is just regular nuts on the bottom but I will be looking out for wing nuts so I can do not need pliers to hold them still when turning the top. I also added the large washers top and bottom to spread the load. I had considered having two bolts at each end but I can assure you one is enough.

    With the sail fitted it looks like this.



    In use I have my kneeling mat underneath it. You do not need a mast foot. I can confirm that the pole would snap before it was deflected much from the vertical. I can fit the clamp to any of my three seats and with the mast to the front or rear of the seat.

    Here is the sail in use, although by the time I got a chance to test it last night the wind had died down a lot and today it was non existent.



    I was trying to tack slightly in that picture which is why the sail is not out to the side.

    If I was making another one and I may do. I would possible use thinner wood with blocks attached at the ends where the pole goes through to give the extra depth. It would make it all a bit smaller and lighter but I am not sure how much of an advantage that is.

    The sail is from Dave at Endless River http://www.endlessriver.co.uk/. It is listed on the site as a kit, including the thwart, bolts, mast foot and glue for 75 however if you buy the sail on its own it is considerably cheaper at 45

    So all in all I am a happy camper. The system is dead easy to use solo and I can see where I am going too when sailing now as well.
    Last edited by MagiKelly; 10th-June-2006 at 08:47 PM.
    John

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Canada
    Posts
    6,971

    Default

    That looks great; My friend Tim is always experimenting with sail but this is way beyond his inventions, I will have to show him. Do you use a lee board too or just run without one? I know nothing about sailing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    No lee board as yet. For the moment it is really a down wind set up but I may experiment with lee boards if I can come up with one that is simple enough to deploy etc. I am not a fan of having to spend too much time setting stuff up.

    Tandem I assume one paddler could go in the middle and hold there paddle to act as a lee board, with the rear paddler ruddering.

    I also have to say my knowledge of sailing is sparse at best. "The wind fills the sail and pushes you along" about covers it.
    John

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Canada
    Posts
    6,971

    Default

    Tim was going to build a leeboard thwart that clamps in similar to your mast pole stand and use an old design that sets up fast useing wingnuts. He never got around to is so I haven't seen it in action. Here are the plans and info he found though.

    Leeboard thwart:

    The leeboard thwart should be 4" wide and either 3/4", 7/8" or 1" thick depending on the type of wood used. The thwart is attached to the canoe by means of a clamp bar fitted below the inwales, and by using carriage bolts and brass tail nuts. In this way the leeboard is held securely to the canoe but can be easily removed. An Old Town style leeboard bracket should be used and faced with a 1" 4" 5 1/2" piece of hardwood.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Preston, Lancashire
    Posts
    69

    Default Sail

    Hi

    the sail looks great I may have a go at making one myself after a back wind on Derwentwater at the weekend
    Where did you get the seat coverings from they are just what my better half requires ?

    Greg

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    Had the sail out for a good try today. Wind was at least at a force 3. I was pelting along to put it mildly.



    As you can see from the picture the force of the wind is putting a fair bend in the pole but the holding arrangements for the clamp and coping with no problem.

    The sea cover material is a goretex type material that I got from Discount Fabrics from Glasgow. I cut a piece of insulation to the right size for the seat and cut the material to shape them just used a staple gun to attach it.

    I have started to have some ideas about a lee board. Today I could really have done with being able to tack to the wind more than is possible at the moment.
    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Glasgowish
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    Hi John, check out the Solway Dory website for canoe sailing bits and bobs. I bought the rudder fittings for my canoe from there - Dave was most helpful. I also bought an aluminium leeboard bracket / bolt for 15 - ok, I could have made one cheaper from just from angle iron, but this one is really solid, and very lightweight.
    The Canoeist's prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to walk the portages I must, The courage to run the rapids I can, And the wisdom to know the difference".

    John Muir Trust - Wild Places for Nature & People.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    I see they have the throwover lee board. Would this really work? I have seen this suggested on a few sites but cannot understand what stops it from just swinging up out the way. Might need to try making one and give it a try.
    John

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Lanarkshire
    Posts
    304

    Default

    i want a sail now after seeing this the other night!! looks like a handy piece of kit.

    regards

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Glasgowish
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiKelly
    I see they have the throwover lee board. Would this really work? I have seen this suggested on a few sites but cannot understand what stops it from just swinging up out the way. Might need to try making one and give it a try.
    I can't see why it wouldn't work. You'd need to tie it to stop it swinging fore and aft, but once you lob it over, the sideways force of the water should keep it from floating. (I have seen some designs that are weighted at the bottom though). The disadvantage of a 'throw over' is that you have to pull it out and swap sides each time you tack or gybe. The lee-board hangs from the 'lee' side of the canoe, i.e. the same side the sail is being blown towards.

    A note on sail balance - if you find the nose of the boat tends to 'bear away' from the wind, move the leeboard forewards. If the nose tends to head up into the wind, move it backwards. However, a small amount of 'weather helm', i.e. tendency to head into the wind is considered desirable for safety (the canoe is less likely to sail off without you if you fall out ). The best thing is to experiment - the rule of thumb for dinghies is to start off with the board about 1/3 of the sail's width aft of the mast, if that makes sense.

    Good luck!
    The Canoeist's prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to walk the portages I must, The courage to run the rapids I can, And the wisdom to know the difference".

    John Muir Trust - Wild Places for Nature & People.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    I did not get paddling at the weekend so decided to make my lea board. my plan was to use one of the brackets from my Endless River removable seat for clipping it to the gunnels. This way I can move it about to different places if it helps.

    As I decided off the cuff to make the lea board I just found a board in the garage that would suit. First of all I cut it to the length and shape using a saw. Then the plan was to thin and shape it using a plane and spokeshave but this was not working out well so I resorted to the woodworking tools I am comfortable with. A Small Forest Axe and a Knife. Made much better progress and am happy with the results. Sanded it when I was finished and have primed it and varnished it with yacht varnish.

    All finished now and tied on the clip. Clips well to the gunnell but still to try it out on the water. More once I try it but a couple of pictures of it so far.



    John

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Lanarkshire
    Posts
    304

    Default

    looks really good. i'd like to see that in use at the achray meet.

    regards

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunter Lake, Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    3,753

    Default

    Great looking sail rig! Gonna have to try this sometime.

    Here is something on lee boards:

    http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/building/building.html
    The perfect canoe -
    Like a leaf on the water

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern Highlands. Scotland.
    Posts
    1,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiKelly
    I see they have the throwover lee board. Would this really work? I have seen this suggested on a few sites but cannot understand what stops it from just swinging up out the way. Might need to try making one and give it a try.
    As it says it has a lead weight at the bottom which should in theory keep it vertical.

    MickT
    It'll be right, trust me, I'm a Yorkshireman.



    ::>>> I'd rather be lucky, than good.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    672

    Default

    Reckon you'll be able to give the guys on the razor-edge rowboats a run for their money?

    Do you have a stanley surform? The wee metal single handed ones are a joy for that kind of thinning and sculpting. They do leave the surface a bit scarred but you just finish with a cabinate scraper(or your knife).
    Picture yourself in a boat on a river,

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ipswich, England
    Posts
    758

    Default Mast Foot with Endless River Kit

    I see with your set up you have not used a mast foot. Does your set up only work without the mast foot because you have constructed your own pole support instead of using the thwart with a hole in it as supplied in the kit?

    I have purchased the Endless River kit but am seeking advice on whether the vinyl mast foot supplied is man enough for the job. I see a lot of people glue/screw a wooden mast thwart but I do not like the idea of screwing into the hull.

    Comments on the Endless River kit would be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Lakes
    Posts
    13,059

    Default

    Looks a good one. Simple to make, fit & use and at 45, a bargain.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    I only get away with the lack of mast foot because my clamp has a fair thickness of wood. With the normal sailing thwart I am pretty sure you will need a mast foot.
    John

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chester
    Posts
    55

    Default Make your own sail

    Has anyone had a bash at making their own sail?

    The designs look relatively simple, the fabric is readily available. (something like this http://www.profabrics.co.uk/shop/sho...hp?id=SP75-112)

    Anyone found any patterns?

    Might have to talk to my mother-in-law nicely, she's a dab hand with the old sewing machine.

    Photos ideas etc appreciated...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central Scotland
    Posts
    1,742

    Default

    Nice setup, maybe you need to flatten the sail to head upwind better ?

    I'm surprised you did not plane in that wind, the normal canoe hull is a perfect planing hull like my laser dinghy.

    Mylar is the best very light wt material.

    Small battens will help flatten the sail.

    ChrisH where's yer post ?
    You must have plenty of mylar from ripped sails to giveaway !!

    I'm trying to get round to making a rig, looks like we will have to have a SOTP sailing comp ! (promise no climbing)

    Nick
    Last edited by Scots_Charles_River; 11th-September-2007 at 08:28 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,205

    Default Home making sails

    Yes, I've made sails - and I'm not just talking about downwind sails. But if you want a sail that will drive you upwind then we are not talking simple.
    Downwind or even crosswind sails can be simple and flat - almost anything will do the job, but for upwind work you need some proper shape which will only come from skilled design, construction and finishing. There is some free software available which would give you the panel shapes to plot. But first you will need to decide what size you want, probably dictated by the spars you plan to use to hold it up. (if you only want to use a poling pole don't bother to try and sail upwind as you won't have enough area and therefore power to make it worth it - you might as well paddle). Then you need to get hold of some sailcloth of the right weight (it won't be cheap if it's any good), mark out and hot-cut the panels to prevent the edges fraying, stitch them together without stretching one panel more than the other (ideally using 2 lines of zigzag stitching), make a neat job of the corner reinforcement patches, crease the "hems" (called rubbing down in sailmaker-speak), sew them down and hope it forms into the right shape that you were expecting when it's in use.
    Is it any wonder that to buy a professionally made sail is a fairly big hit to your wallet - but you know it will work!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,205

    Default planing

    Nick
    It looks like I was typing my other reply as you were doing yours...
    You mention canoes as "perfect planing hull" like your Laser - I would beg to differ - for planing a hull needs a number of different factors but in particular there needs to be flat sections at the stern, which your Laser indeed has, as do the latest designs of 60 foot ocean racing yachts! Canoes do not - generally they have fine entries (at the bow! - to part the water) but also fine aft sections that allow the canoe to move thro the water with little turbulence, which would be inefficient at the displacement speeds that they are designed for. Human paddle power is never sufficient to make canoes (or kayaks for that matter) plane - we can never get over our bow wave and skim across the surface of the water, which is what planing really is. Under sufficient sail power, in the right wind and sailed enthusiastically it can be done but it is rare and I'm afraid that I have come across many cases where canoeists have felt they were planing, probably due to their starting to climb their bow waves to some extent with the stern squatting into the trough created - they have certainly been going fast but have not been truly planing. The squatting allowed by the fine lines of the hull, compared with a Laser or most dinghies conspires against the likelihood of planing.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    461

    Default




    I've made a canoe sail using a sheet of top grade polytarp using darts sewn into the material,The method is described by Jim Michalak at his excellent website herehttp://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/1998/1015/index.htm#Lugsails%20From%20Polytarp%201
    .I took his measurements for a 75 sq foot balanced lugsail for his mayfly dingy x 0.755 to get a 44 sq foot sail for my canoe
    Last edited by unk tantor; 11th-September-2007 at 10:17 PM.

  24. #24

    Default

    Great sail Unk! Have not been able to find the plans you provided on the link. Can I get them from you? I have a 14' Old Town and your sail looks perfect for me. Thanks.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern Highlands. Scotland.
    Posts
    1,337

    Default

    Try this one

    >> http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/...cles/polysail/

    I think that Links out of date

    Hope it helps

    MikT
    It'll be right, trust me, I'm a Yorkshireman.



    ::>>> I'd rather be lucky, than good.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •