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Thread: Water Bag Filter

  1. #1
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    Default Water Bag Filter

    Hello.

    After many years searching and paying high prices for filters and replacement cartridges to treat water along our canoe trips, I developed with a local industry a BAG-FILTER with a 1.5 micra mesh cloth that is performing quite well.

    It will hold almost everything but extra fine silt, so don´t expect to put a glass of water with a handfull of mud inside and see Perrier water flowing on the other side!

    After filtering ALLWAYS treat the water with some sort of chlorine solution (comercially available) as the filter will NOT cdompletely stop bio-hazards like bacteria/viruses.

    The filter is quite long (50cm) in order to produce enough pressure inside to give a nice flowing rate... You may filter 10 liters of water in less than 1 minute. In the first filtration (with the cloth dry) it will take a few seconds to begin flowing.

    There is a plastic mouth of 10cm diameter, what means that you will need to be careful not to spill water out while filling the bag.

    The cloth is really thick, so the filter will hold some water after filtering. DO NOT twist it to reduce weight. Let it hanging to drain for a couple hours and put inside a plastic bag. When back home let it hanging to dry completely before storing.

    Yes, it will replace your old socks with great advantages!


    Right now I have just 2 units available, but I can ask the manufacturer to produce a new batch (minimun of 25 units) for me (what will take about 10 days to arrive home).

    Price: BR $ 85,00 (around 25 pounds?) + 6% PayPal fees + shipping from Brazil (have to check this amount at the postal office). Guess it will arrive at your hands in UK for 35 to 40 pounds.

    Here is a picture with an ETREX GPS as scale:



    No, sorry...the GPS is not included!

    In case you are interested, please PM me with your address, so I can get a better estimate on shipping charges.

    Besides this 2 I can get enough bags to everybody, but it will take 10 days to arrive here + ???? days to get there at your address.

    Well, that´s it.... (as allways, sorry for any english mistakes).

    Tony
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
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  2. #2
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    Default

    I've moved this into the made by members section
    John

  3. #3
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    very interesting. looks like you could duck-tape one to your neck as a tie if you need one...
    i suppose shipping one of these to the netherlands wouldn't be a problem?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    very interesting. looks like you could duck-tape one to your neck as a tie if you need one...
    i suppose shipping one of these to the netherlands wouldn't be a problem?
    Greetings from Brazil.

    Here we call it "the elephant condom"....


    Yes, sending to you in Netherlands (or anywhere else) is simple..... If you get really interested I can ask the shipping cost at the postal office. Just PM me your city, country and zip-code. Thanks. Tony.
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
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  5. #5
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    Dear At,

    the filter is on the way to Holand!!!!! Please let me know when it gets there! Sent you a PM with the shipping tracking number!

    Hope you like it....

    Tony
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBR View Post
    Greetings from Brazil.

    Here we call it "the elephant condom"....


    Yes, sending to you in Netherlands (or anywhere else) is simple..... If you get really interested I can ask the shipping cost at the postal office. Just PM me your city, country and zip-code. Thanks. Tony.
    in lancashire we just call it a condom!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2o View Post
    in lancashire we just call it a condom!!!

    and probably on the small size, right? Yeah, ok.....
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
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  8. #8
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    the elephant condom arrived safe and sound, thanks tony!
    just wondering... do you also have it in large?

  9. #9
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    [quote=lowlander;98944]the elephant condom arrived safe and sound...quote]

    One has to wonder - What liquid you are going to filter?

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    the elephant condom arrived safe and sound, thanks tony!
    just wondering... do you also have it in large?
    Hello Lowlander AT..... Good to know it arrived well....and quite fast it seems.... (just 9 days?!). Hope you like it! The small one is around 20Microns and will be a good option to less turbid waters, from springs for example. The flowing rate on it is super fast, but it also requires clorine (or similar) treatment as the big one.

    Of course you must look for the clearest water available around your campsite. Here we just take a canoe to the middle of the river, fill a 10/20 liters recipient and get back to the camp in order to filter the water to everybody. We treat the filtered water with a comercial brand of clorine + iodine + whateverine for 10 minutes and then everyone can fill their bottles for the next day. Simple and quite "democratic".... not to mention the weird situation of having 10 people pumping water-filters simultaneously in the camp....

    Please don´t forget to post here your impressions over the bag-filter (the big one). Guess other people may be interested on it....

    Now...about the sizes....Sorry, I used all the large ones! Only small ones to spare.... heheheeheh
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBR View Post
    Please don´t forget to post here your impressions over the bag-filter (the big one). Guess other people may be interested on it....
    i certainly will. please bear with me for while, it's not just that the weather is incredibly crap right now, i also got a new dog that's a bit of a maniac still. desperately need to teach her some manners. when that's done she might do part of the testing for us

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    i also got a new dog that's a bit of a maniac still. desperately need to teach her some manners. when that's done she might do part of the testing for us
    Dogs?????


    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  13. #13
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    i can see this going a bit off topic...




    here's the little beast i'm talking about. she's 9 months old and was abandoned in spain. apart from not pooping in the house she doesn't seem to have any training whatsoever. so now i'm trying to teach her to be a good canoe dog - just as yours seem to be

    she's learning fast though. had her only a week now and she's made huge progress, from being an almost wild, almost street dog.

  14. #14
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    Default tony's water bag filter

    i've had this filter now for a bit over half a year, and used it a few times on several trips. i can't say anything bad about it, so here the good bits:


    • it's fairly small and light
    • no mechanical parts that can be damaged
    • throughput is great, you can fill a 10l container in no time
    • relatively inexpensive
    • seems to work

    why do i say 'seems to work'? well, neither i nor my companions have had any problems with the water filtered. so assuming the water was contaminated, it did a great job. but i don't know, maybe the water was just fine anyway

    before i had a filter i was always using water from sources that i deemed safe. in civilised areas that was either from bottles or water taps. in wilderness i made sure that the water was fresh and that there were no possible sources of contaminants (industrial, agricultural etc.) upstream, incl. checking the map. this plus boiling worked fine for me over many years.

    i did have a slightly bad conscience though as you can never be 100% sure with this method. so i added this filter for extra security while using the same precautions for sourcing the water.

    most commercial filters seemed too cumbersome and expensive. this one sounded like a great, low-tech alternative, and it seems like it's been doing a good job so far!


    p.s.
    next time i get diarrhea i'll let you all know

  15. #15

    Default water filter bags

    Paddlers looking for a cheap effective bag could consider looking in surplus stores for ex military Millbank bags. Usually light green canvas in appearance, square sock shaped with a brass eyelet, they are very effective.
    The golden rule with filter bags is not to be impatient and squeeze them as this opens the mesh letting baddies in. Also, it is recommended to use filter bags backed up with sterilising tablets (belt and braces).
    If you then boil the water for a cup of tea you can leave your running shoes at home.

  16. #16
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    Dear Lowlander,

    thanks a lot for your review.... It arrived when I was paddling the Amazon, so I didn´t see until now.

    The fact that it is so simple and fast helps on decidng to filter any water, including the ones that come from "reliable" sources on the "road".... Just don´t forget to chemically or phisically treat the water after, as this filter do not hold bacteria/viruses. The main idea is to use river-water with much less particulates on remote areas (we treat the water with chlorine after).

    No to mention saving a lot of $$$ as there are no cartridges to change every few pumps.... We treat water for large groups (up to 12 paddlers), so this became a great way....

    Thanks again for you review, Tony.



    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    i've had this filter now for a bit over half a year, and used it a few times on several trips. i can't say anything bad about it, so here the good bits:


    • it's fairly small and light
    • no mechanical parts that can be damaged
    • throughput is great, you can fill a 10l container in no time
    • relatively inexpensive
    • seems to work
    why do i say 'seems to work'? well, neither i nor my companions have had any problems with the water filtered. so assuming the water was contaminated, it did a great job. but i don't know, maybe the water was just fine anyway

    before i had a filter i was always using water from sources that i deemed safe. in civilised areas that was either from bottles or water taps. in wilderness i made sure that the water was fresh and that there were no possible sources of contaminants (industrial, agricultural etc.) upstream, incl. checking the map. this plus boiling worked fine for me over many years.

    i did have a slightly bad conscience though as you can never be 100% sure with this method. so i added this filter for extra security while using the same precautions for sourcing the water.

    most commercial filters seemed too cumbersome and expensive. this one sounded like a great, low-tech alternative, and it seems like it's been doing a good job so far!


    p.s.
    next time i get diarrhea i'll let you all know
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBR View Post
    Here we call it "the elephant condom"....
    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    please bear with me for while... ...i also got a new dog... ...she might do part of the testing for us
    That must be one well hung dog - hang on, you refer to it as 'SHE' ?!*

  18. #18
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    I hope Tony has a patent..apparantly Kataydn has the same idea.

    The Base Camp Water filter






    o dear it looks like an enema bag.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    p.s.
    next time i get diarrhea i'll let you all know
    by the way, i'm sure you'll be glad to know that there hasn't been any diarrhea yet.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    by the way, i'm sure you'll be glad to know that there hasn't been any diarrhea yet.
    Glad to know!!!! Although diarrhea may happen if you don´t treat the water after filtration.

    Last trip with a large group (12 people) I relied solely on the bag filter for 10 days. Absolutely no problems! People even enjoyed the water, as the river was quite pristine. Or was it the clorine vapours????
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post
    I hope Tony has a patent..apparantly Kataydn has the same idea.

    The Base Camp Water filter






    o dear it looks like an enema bag.
    I believe they are also based on cartridges inside! Like the old ceramic filters.... Our bag filter is based on the cloth mesh only, what turns it into something much simpler, faster and undestructible!

    Another advantage is that you can´t mistake it with an enema bag!!!! What is quite a relief while camping with other people!!!
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  22. #22
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    Tony:

    What kind of cloth is it ? when it gets clogged, can you wash it? does it loose its effectiveness with time?


    I have an MSR MiniWorks which does a good job for me. Wondering if you had considered making small pockets of this cloth to act as a prefilter for these and other cartrige filters?

    from what I have read, protazoa are in the 1 micron range, bacteria in the .5 to 2 micron and viruses way small at .01 micron range. would your filter stop any of them? Also I have read that both protazoa and viruses require a host, but that the bacteria can live in the water. could they grow in the damp cloth of the filter?


    .
    Regards,
    Mike

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotoMike View Post
    Tony:

    What kind of cloth is it ? when it gets clogged, can you wash it? does it loose its effectiveness with time?


    I have an MSR MiniWorks which does a good job for me. Wondering if you had considered making small pockets of this cloth to act as a prefilter for these and other cartrige filters?

    from what I have read, protazoa are in the 1 micron range, bacteria in the .5 to 2 micron and viruses way small at .01 micron range. would your filter stop any of them? Also I have read that both protazoa and viruses require a host, but that the bacteria can live in the water. could they grow in the damp cloth of the filter?


    .
    Hi Mike. This bag does NOT hold virus, bacteria or protozoa. You will need after-treatment with chemicals, that is the safest way to avoid bio-problems. The bag is composed of two cloths. A kind of mesh inside that holds particles around 10micra, and an external woven cloth that is supposed to hold down to 1.5 - 2 micra. BUT, the outside cloth performance is probably reduced because of movement (the fibers probably open) from storage, so I believe that the eficiency is around 5 to 10 micra.

    I used to use the MSR and First Need Deluxe filters, but got tired of wasting money on expensive cartridges, even using the MSR pre-filters... My cartridges usually lasted for just one trip of 10 days, not to mention the social distress they cause when people start not-sharing their own filters.... I remember one trip where everybody was supposed to bring a filter and, by day 8, all cartridges were clogging.... Fortunatelly I allways carry clorine pills, so we ended up drinking non-filtered-treated-river-water!!!

    The bag filter will take most of the sediment on the water, and clorine pills will do the rest. While on long trips, we really don´t matter getting a bit extra clorine on the main water jug.

    As to care about the bag, I usually wash it with treated water before I put it back on the plastig bag and before I start a new filtration. At home I apply a full back-wash and drying.

    The main point is that you will rely on the after-treatment for biological safety.

    I can filter 20 liters (my main jug while guiding groups) in less than 2 minutes. Chemicals will ask for 20/30 minutes (at least) to kill everything in the jug. Then everybody will fill their personnal bottles with clean and safe water for the day.

    Now....some personnal bottles can be a real source of bad things!!! I´ve seen people get a bottle with mud on the mouth piece from the bottom of the canoe and fill with water....
    Last edited by TonyBR; 2nd-December-2009 at 08:14 PM. Reason: "just" 278 English mistakes found. The other 341 I just didn´t see.
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

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