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Thread: Mad River Legend 15

  1. #61
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    Default Mad river legend

    I lowered my seats about 25mm but this still wasnt enough for me but even longer new bolts needed. Though a very pretty boat I have not gelled with mine.Its wonderfully light but takes damage quickly and after looking at some other craft, not that well finished for what you pay.
    I have since sold mine and now paddle a Nova Craft Prospector 15.5 SP3.
    8kg heavier but finished better, turns on a sixpence, finish is lovely, loads of small touches that make it stand out, seat height spot on, bomb proof construction and 400 cheaper. A very happy paddler.
    Weight is not everything, I have learnt, as I still can load on my Transporter with no issues.
    That said we are all different!

  2. #62
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    Seats 25mm down is about right.

    I had my KT on the Stern side of the Yoke, about 14" behind it.

    This gave me several trim options then. Not everyone is happy having the KT that close to the Yoke though.

    About damage on Royalex.

    New Royalex really does pick up dents soooooooo easily. However, they are easy to get out with CAREFUL and GENTLE warming with a hot air gun (or even just try leaving out in the sun for a bit)

    The difference is brill, heartbreaking dents become minor scuffs.

    W
    www.kayakcoach.co.uk - Wilf's personal website

  3. #63
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    Fantastic, cheers guys... I will drop the seat 25mm and see how that feels, I can always lower it further if needed. I will still have to play about with the KT. Wilf are you able to send a picture of your set-up, I'm intrigued about the distance you've given yourself from the yoke.

    Just out of interest has anyone opted for the IQ2 webbing for the airbags? I've decided to go down the traditional route of sticking holes in the boat and strapping them down, although I'm not really looking forward that bit!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    Fantastic, cheers guys... I will drop the seat 25mm and see how that feels, I can always lower it further if needed. I will still have to play about with the KT. Wilf are you able to send a picture of your set-up, I'm intrigued about the distance you've given yourself from the yoke.

    Just out of interest has anyone opted for the IQ2 webbing for the airbags? I've decided to go down the traditional route of sticking holes in the boat and strapping them down, although I'm not really looking forward that bit!
    I use the Lashing system for the centre airbag for solo white water, my wife uses it for foam blocks at the ends but in both cases we use a strap and D rings to take the load. I have the IQ overbags and find them much better, I use the pockets in them as well. I now plan to take out the airbags and make some foam bolcks for a bit more durability. Having the KT so you paddle backwards leaves plenty of room for the centre airbag or to get back in when doing self rescues. My wife's Horizon has the KT set to paddle forward but her boat is wider so self rescues are easier.

    The seats don't have to be both the same height, I found the 'front' one needs to be high enonugh to kneel but the rear one can be lower. This tends to be more stable but still lets you paddle solo comfortably. I would make up some spacers and try them before cutting new hangers.

  5. #65
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    This may help with getting the seat adjusted to your preferred height.

  6. #66
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    Hmmm... I'm gonna have to check on me bolt length, they don't look long enough for an extra 32mm. The washers look quite good, with the 'inverse shock-absorption'. Any suggestions on KT placement?

  7. #67
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    Just taken my shiny new Legend 15 out and had a great time, so different to my Explorer 16 it will I think take a little getting used to. I got a fantastic deal from George at Absolut Paddling. The boat came with air bags IQ lashing kits, "D" rings and a KT fitted it also had the seats dropped to 40mm below so it seems to be ready to rock! In fact I did find it more rocky than the explorer but I guess that is to be expected of a round hull.
    The question I have for any IQ2 boat owners out there is how did you stop the lashing kits sliding up and down the tracks? For now I have tied one the inside of the grab loop and the other ends lashed to the seat, but it looks messy.
    Any thoughts or ideas please?

  8. #68
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    I've had my Legend for a couple of years now and I did try using the IQ system at first...I am probably not very kind to my boats, they get used a lot, mostly on moving water of varying scariness!

    So...this is what you need to do, and it may be a dissapointment...sorry.

    1. remove IQ lashing kit and hang neatly in garage (or ebay)
    2. go to climbing shop/chandlers and choose rope colour (not too thin 6/7mm?) Yellow looks nice with a green boat.
    3. look up SotP threads on 'drilling and lacing'
    4. have a strong coffee, do the deed, breathe again, then...
    5.replace airbags, no worries about them departing company from boat, go paddle the boat and ENJOY

  9. #69
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    Gulp,I am trying at all costs to avoid the drill, anyone who has seen my house full of unfinished DIY projects will agree it is for the best.
    I do understand what you are saying and I guess in more bonkers white water it makes perfect sense. But for now I am still working on grade 2 water and it did come with these things so I am of the mind that I should at least try to use them. There must be a simple way to stop them sliding in the track.
    Failing that anyone want to buy two sets? LOL
    I will still drink the strong coffee thouh if thats OK

  10. #70
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    OK, wait till it's got some 'smile lines' and then drill it Untill then try threading it in with the eyelet closest to the grab handle loop and use a zip tie to hold it there...that should hold it in place and you won't see the zip tie when the bags blown up... simple really, a world without zip ties would be chaos!

  11. #71
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    Try these ?

  12. #72
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    Mmm, I've got a few of them floating about in the 'spares' box...wonder why? Oh yes, I remember, they 'jiggle' themselves loose while you're paddling as the hull flexs and you have to take them out (and everything attached to them...) before you travel anywhere with the boat on the roof/trailer because they won't be there when you take it off again.

    You can't tighten them up with cold fingers either...sorry monday morning rant...I love my Legend really.

  13. #73
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    I guess what I am finding hard to understand is if this system is so bad why do MR get away with selling it? Surely there would be a pile of IQ stuff on the bay with no takers.

  14. #74
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    It's not the first time we've all bought something which didn't do what it said on the tin! Sad state of the world unfortunately! I think the IQ2 system is just badly designed - nothing wrong with the idea of swap and change accessories just well marketed but poorly executed.

    I think the general consensus is that drilling and lacing is the strongest option, however I have a Freedom Solo that's had the gunwales drilled and riveted with P clips (you can also put in eyelets which I think are stronger and neater). When I bought it one of the rivets had popped out (no drama to replace) but I've put it onto GII water and had it capsize and all sorts and it's held the bags in place with all the abuse. However, it's not IQ so the sides are a nice flat surface.

    I've had a look at my IQ2 gunwales on my Explorer 16 and you might be able to drill the holes for the rivets on the flat surface at the bottom of the gunwales. I couldn't say how well it would hold up that way though - it might be a waste of time. But it would be in a discrete place so you could give it a try before drilling the hull!

    Seriously though, drilling and lacing is kind of expected on the hull of a WW/river touring boat like the Legend, and from what I can see doesn't impact on the value of the boat at all (as long as you don't do a botch job!). Look at the Legend's that have sold in the the blink of an eye recently - all were laced up. If it's a good job, I'd be really happy as it would save me time!

    K

  15. #75
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    I drilled my Legend yesterday... and after taking a deep breath for the first few holes, the rest were not really much to worry about.

    I only drilled holes for the stern and bow airbags rather than go around the whole boat. I actually used a bit of 90mm x 25mm card as my guide and made a small indent using a blunt pencil. The drill bit then sat nice on the indent and voila... holes galore.

    Now my boat looks fantastic, now I just have to measure the KT placement, but I'm happy with leaning against the bow seat in reverse.

  16. #76
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    Hi Enigma, I would be interested in seeing what it looks like with just the front and back laced.
    I have read all of this thread and I guess one concern I have with some of the drilling projects is the use of plastic pipe. Won't it go brittle over time?

  17. #77
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    I'm not too sure how to add images... can anyone help?!?

    I will take some piccies, and show you what I've done. What do you mean by plastic piping?

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    I'm not too sure how to add images... can anyone help?!?

    I will take some piccies, and show you what I've done. What do you mean by plastic piping?
    Here's a guide to adding photo's

    Steve
    Had a great time at the Canoe Symposium 2011 - Harry Rock is now my hero.

  19. #79
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    Thanks, it looks from a number of posts on here that they have used plastic piping to act as a spacer on the inside of the boat to stop the rope pulling through.

  20. #80
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    Ah I see... I've not used any piping. I will hope to get some piccies online tomorrow for you.

    Steve - Any chance of directing me to that guide you've indicated, there was no link on your post.

  21. #81
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    I promise to get some piccies up soon... Unfortunately I got back late so was unable to get some nice pictures. I'm at a rolling session tomorrow night (Kk) so may not get somthing on site until Thursday.

    Does anyone out there know how I can source eight 6" bolts for my seats so I can drop them... even better if you know where I can find some spacers, B&Q seem to be quite expensive... any help would be appreciated...

  22. #82
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    Hi Enigma, Endless river have 6" bolts on their web site. http://www.endlessriver.co.uk//produ...roducts_id/570
    They also do do a kit with wooden spacers but that is 15 pounds.
    If you are looking for the rubber tap washers Iwould tr a plumbers merchant like plumb centre I bet they do bulk packs quite cheap.

  23. #83
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    Hi Justinch, hopefully you can see the following images:

    This is the canoe with the airbags in, I still need to add the KT and drop the seats (which I now have the bolts for, so thanks for pointing me in the right direction):


    This image is the bow air bag fitted


    This is the stern air bag fitted, as you can see it's quite long so it fits snugly under the stern seat, which is fine for solo paddling, but I will need to deflate for tandem. You can see that I have drilled holes at about 9cm, but I don't think there is any specific reason, I just took a guess and it seemed to work okay.


    So overall, you just need to measure the spacing height as well as length, and make sure that you don't drill a hole through the seat or handle. In the stern I've run the cord through the grab loop holes and ran it back along the other side. I've then knotted it. I've then used a new cord to create the criss-cross over the airbag. I've also tied the end of the air bag into the grab loop.

    Let me know if you want any other pictures....

  24. #84
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    Thanks for the pictures, it does look nice. I guess I need to decide do I lace all the way along or just the ends and how much rope Ineed to buy.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justinch View Post
    I do understand what you are saying and I guess in more bonkers white water it makes perfect sense. But for now I am still working on grade 2 water and it did come with these things so I am of the mind that I should at least try to use them. There must be a simple way to stop them sliding in the track.
    If you feel that installing airbags is necessary then on any reasonable grade of water, you will want the bags to stay put. The IQ lashing kit does not guarantee this. In a serious pin I've seen the IQ lashing slide around and let the airbag escape. (Not mine, I didn't trust it)

    The bits of pipe to make loops is a good idea but not essential. In order to avoid sticky-outy-bits, I lace the full length of the boat and then, for the cockpit area, I interweave a length of bungee. At any point you can clip in a bailer or somesuch but you can also pull it over the T-grip of your spare paddle.

    Shimple!

  26. #86
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    Hi Enigma, I have just drilled what felt like a hundred holes in my boat and laced it all up (well each end) where did you get your air bags from and what size are they?
    Thanks

  27. #87
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    Those are Yak air bags, available from good canoeing retailers.

    As it happened, I couldn't find a link to Yak bags but most sites sold bags from someone; Bell, Voyageur, Endless River.

  28. #88
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    Thanks Adrian, I have some endless river ones which are to small. I like the nylon constructionof them but they are very expensive so was wondering which other ones are available. I also wanted to know what size as from the pictures they look like a perfect fit.

    Justin

  29. #89
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    Justin, I can't remember what size they are so I will have a nose in the morning... They are expensive but they should last, so worth paying for something that is sturdy. They fit very well...

    I was on the teifi last weekend and on the Lower Dart yesterday... lots of water (wahooo!) on the dart... but I realised that I need to get my KT in asap as my bow was way too high (I didn't realise until someone pointed it out to me... I just thought I was being week and feable, which may still be the case). I will post some piccies when done.

    Do you have any images of your one?

  30. #90
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    Thanks, good point Ihave not yet taken any pics. I took it to club yesterday (Winchester and District CC) and now it woul seem I am unlikely to ever get to paddle it again. The problem is that all the open paddlers seemed to fall in love it! I will try to get some pics next weekend when it comes out again. The club may be on the loop on Sunay (water permitting) So I may go up for the day and give it a good run for its money.

    As for the KT I would recomend it. I did not have one in my previous boat but feel that in theis one it is a must, the control it gives you paddling solo is so much better. What Iwill do when I can find where to get them from is buy some thigh/knee straps to keep me in one place.

    Justin

  31. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justinch View Post
    As for the KT I would recomend it. I did not have one in my previous boat but feel that in theis one it is a must, the control it gives you paddling solo is so much better. What Iwill do when I can find where to get them from is buy some thigh/knee straps to keep me in one place.

    Justin
    Let me know how you set up the thigh/knee straps. I've put in the KT, and paddled it on the West Okement, and you're right, much easier to paddle. Although my brand-spanking new boat looks like it's been dragged along the motorway for a few hundred miles... oh well.

  32. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    Let me know how you set up the thigh/knee straps. I've put in the KT, and paddled it on the West Okement, and you're right, much easier to paddle. Although my brand-spanking new boat looks like it's been dragged along the motorway for a few hundred miles... oh well.
    Here are some pictures of my boat with thigh straps, no one seems to get it. I put them in when I was using the seat, with the KT they're a little far back so they fit higher on the thigh. This is great for stability but does make leaving a bit more tricky! (hope the photo link works!)

    http://picasaweb.google.com/spooner3...eat=directlink

    Last edited by JS1; 23rd-November-2009 at 10:04 PM.

  33. #93
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    Cool Proud new owner

    I am the proud owner of a brand new shiny perfect red Legend 15 and can't wait to take it paddling tomorrow. Having sat in it I could tell straight away that the seat is definitely gonna need some lowering as so many others have found, but for now the priority is fitting the airbags and endloops - wish me luckwith the drill!


  34. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirechick View Post
    I am the proud owner of a brand new shiny perfect red Legend 15 and can't wait to take it paddling tomorrow. Having sat in it I could tell straight away that the seat is definitely gonna need some lowering as so many others have found, but for now the priority is fitting the airbags and endloops - wish me luckwith the drill!

    So how was the paddle in your new Legend? Have you taken time to lower the seats, and are you intending on fitting a kneeling thwart?

  35. #95
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    Cool Legend maiden voyage

    She was of course a dream to paddle , pleasingly as responsive as my Freedom Solo but with added benefits. I've been torn about the seat, as I prefer a kneeling thwart. I need to figure out where exactly to fit a kneeling thwart. 0f course I might still need to lower the seat for tandem use.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  36. #96
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    I've lowered both seats and installed a kneeling thwart, and I kept the yoke in which luckily I've not had to remove.

    I normally paddle solo, but yesterday I took someone out with me and it felt really wierd paddling stern...

    Send us some pictures of your Legend, we're almost at a point of starting a Legend Club!!

  37. #97
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    Chandlers Ford in Hampshire
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    Default Legend on BIG water

    Hi all, well its been a year now of owning the Legend and I can honestly say it is a great boat. I have just got back from a trip to the Alps and the Legend amazed all those kayakers. I took it out on a couple of river trips in big volume grade two and three water and it was a dream to paddle. we did ship a bit of water on some of the rapids but that is to be expected. The best part of the trip was taking it down the Rabioux wave on the Durance. This is a huge drop with a monster wave on the back of it. so if you want to see how we did check us out on you tube.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsuBtLyWMNI

    The worst part was breaking out of the flow. The boat was half full but we made it. The rest of the club in chase boats can be seen following us all amazed that we made it.
    to be honest so was I! Before we started I had us down for 90% chance of failure.

    Justin

  38. #98
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    Excellent. I really rate this boat. I will refrain from offering advice on your line.

  39. #99
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    Cheshire
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    Default Legend on the Rab

    Hats off. I've yet to try my Legend on it but I've taken my Freedom Solo thru it a few years ago and didn't make it - the commercial photographer got some crackin shots of my capsize! I'd got thru but that wave then swamped my back end :-( I've run it successfully in an Explorer 14 tho (much much lower water then tho)

    Am dying to get the Legend on some decent water - bring on the rainy season.

  40. #100
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    Nov 2006
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    Default Lowering those seats

    I've just hold of a Dagger Legend 15 - and guess what? The seats are stupidly high - so don't blame Mad River, it looks like they were just following the original manufacturer! I'll lower them when I get the time but there are a lot of other things higher up the list (so SWMBO tells me!) (I knew I should have never agreed to move house!)

    And no - this does not replace the slightly ceased Mad River Legend 15 some of you have seen me paddle.

    But yes - the Royalex does seem tougher and thicker!
    You don't stop playing because you get old - you get old because you stop playing.

  41. #101
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    Leicester
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    Are Ash Gunwales a good idea, or will they be too much of a hinderance?
    (this boat will be used on white water if this makes any difference)

    Thanks, Matt

  42. #102
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    Nov 2010
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    Question High Seats?

    Having paddled my mate new Legend, I found the seats to be at an almost ideal hight. I do not know if this is because I am a lanky git (my mate is also of the longer leg stature!) or if I just like to paddle in a strange stance! I find it difficult to find boats where I can get the kneeling thwart to a comfortable hight, but I think the Legend has that covered for me!! Mine should be in the post shortly!!
    and are the best Combination!

  43. #103
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    Cool Pity the postman...

    Lol pity the postman bringing that parcel! It'll be like Christmas come early opening it though. Happy paddling with your new Legend tho

    As to the above query about ash gunwales. I would've had them myself if I could've pushed the budget a bit more. They look fab and I think they're better than the IQ2 gunwale. I have that and have yet to use any of the IQ2 fittings, including the cup holders that came free with. The other downside to the IQ2 gunwale is the amount of water that stays in them and then pours all over you as you turn the boat upside down and load onto roofrack or trailer . If you can afford the extra couple of hundred squid I'd definitely go for them. It makes no difference to how the boat works and will have no impact on the profile of the boat so they won't get in the way of your paddle strokes. I reckon they'd be tougher than the IQ2 gunwales too.

  44. #104
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    Nov 2010
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    East Edge of the Lakes
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    Talking IQ2 soon to be no more!!

    Having been to Brookebank in Carlisle, I am informed that the new boats coming into the country will no longer be fitted with the IQ2 system due to the issues that have been associated with the IQ2, reference load bearing and the such. Instead they at to revert back to the vinyl gunwales of old, which will be stronger and more suitable for paddling (ie not get in the way of your perfect strokes!).

    Please do not slate me if this turns out to be wrong, as this is only the information I am told by the people who should know!
    and are the best Combination!

  45. #105
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    Only had my legend a few weeks now but got to say I am very happy with it


  46. #106
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    also forgot to mention i dropped the seats 25mm by inserting dowels to the original bolts






  47. #107
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    Just picked up my new legend, now trying to work out 1 do I need the kneeling thwart and 2 where is the best place to install it? I have seen that some prefer the kt behind the front seat and others in the more traditional place and others don't bother at all, will have a play tomorrow to see if I need the KT any advice or tips would be greatly received
    cheers

    Paul

  48. #108
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    Nov 2010
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    Paul, I decided to make my own kneeling thwart and placed it just behind the bow seat, at the same hight (I am 6'2"). It is about 15 and the most comfortable boat I have paddled. I also find that the boat is beautifully balanced and I have a good space for storing kit on expeditions. There is little wonder you rarely come across these boats second hand.
    and are the best Combination!

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