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Thread: How windy ???

  1. #1
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    Default How windy ???

    Here's a Muppet / numpty question........

    What wind speeds start to effect when / where you might paddle ?

    For instance

    0-5mph = no problem; don't even think about it
    5-10mph= ??
    etc., etc.

    I've been out in some windy stuff and it was hard work but I don't know how windy it was so have nothing to use as a reference when watching weather forecast.

    Cheers Boys and Girls

    Col

  2. #2
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    It depends on whether I’m solo or tandem and where I’m paddling. On Loch Lomond, tandem I’m happy ish up to about 17mph as long as it’s not big crossings. Solo I’d probably be happy enough up to 12-14 mph but it depends on the route.

    On my local Loch, Castle Semple I’d be happy in any wind but would be playing in the waves and not trying to get anywhere. I don’t really worry about capsizing in the wind, more about getting where I want to go.
    John

  3. #3
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    Admiral Beafort devised a scale of wind speeds and observations, but his were based on the sailing requirements of a (either ship of the line or first rate) Either way it is useless for us as canoeists. The annotations for observations have been added to by several others later, with some picturesq descriptions. One of my favourites is "Smacks seek shelter". Another one with particular relevance to me is "whole Trees in motion", which is stronger than "branches in motion." and is the subjective wind strength for my mini land yacht to be able to reach speeds in excess of 30mph and deal with softer sand without stropping.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale is the one I find most useful for sailing. I rarely paddle on lakes or the sea unless surfing, so I have little idea how it relates to paddling, but sailing back to the club from a sail away in a steady force 6 last week was a stimulating experience in my Aero dinghy and produced a magnificent "death roll" and full on capsize.

    Wave size andshape can also be a clue, but of course wind against tide waves are very different and considerably less benign than wind over tide. Another clue on the sea shore is that if you are looking down wind and can see white horses (breaking waves) then it is very windy.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiKelly View Post
    I don’t really worry about capsizing in the wind, more about getting where I want to go.
    My reason for asking. I did a group paddle on the Thames, around Christmas, I think and we had one stretch that was up-hill and against the wind. Paddling like fcuk we were making very little headway. It would have made more sense to land, stick the canoes on trolleys and walk. :-)

    So up to about 14mph you'd expect to be able to make reasonable progress solo ??

  5. #5
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    Sorry to come again to this question, but there are two problems with paddling against then wind. One is the wind resistance of boat and paddler, and the other the way the boats windage is distributed. I have two "trad boats" One, an Old Town Cascade has high curly ends, the better to deal with waves on white water, which is its prime objective. In head winds it is very difficult not to be blown off course. The other is a low line Dagger Sojourn, so low that my seat is only just below the gunnel, but it has minimum rocker and windage and is not so easily disturbed from my chosen course.

  6. #6
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    Col, I know its going to be hard work if its constantly higher than about 12-15mph, and gusts of 20-25 or above are a pain. Equally, I can go out in these conditions by choosing places to go with more care on windier days. The Basingstoke Canal from Winchfield is pretty windproof for example, and I'll paddle there when its 20mph gusting higher. The Thames is often a pain, so I rarely go there in over 15mph average and ideally less than 12. I can face an 18-20 mph headwind and make progress, with a heavy bow trim and probably "switching" rather than using a correction stroke, but I prefer not to! Perhaps perversely, I prefer a headwind to a strong trailing wind on open water, if I'm not able to make use of it with a sail, especially if its on water that means there will be waves sneaking up behind me and moving my stern about when I'm not looking.

    All that Peter says is highly relevant. Your Pal should be pretty good if trimmed appropriately, better than your Prospector.

    On open water, I use the "white horses" thing as a good guide, especially on the Pirate Scottish loch trips. If there are more than just a small number of waves showing any white edges, we stay ashore.
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  7. #7
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    For my solo paddles I work on the following:

    Force 1 - 2, 1-7 MPH no problem with or against wind.

    Force 3, 8-12 MPH Starts to get harder into the wind, nice assistance down wind

    Force 4, 12-18 MPH Too much work into the wind, slow progress if at all, starts to get surfy down wind.

    Force 5, 19-24 MPH Going nowhere but paddling hard, go for walk instead.

    Proviso to the above I'm 60+ and not that fit.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for all the info boys.

    I suspect My Pal would fall somewhere between your boats, Peter. Less rocker than a prospector and lowish sides.

    Quercus, I'm gonna print out your chart. :-)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impcanoe View Post
    .... but sailing back to the club from a sail away in a steady force 6 last week was a stimulating experience in my Aero dinghy ....
    Sorry for getting off topic, but where do you sail your Aero? I'm planning on joining Chichester Yacht Club next year and blowing a small chunk of my pension, either on an Aero, a D Zero, or a K1.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

  10. #10
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    The Death roll was leaving the Ship Inn at Red Wharf Bay, Isle of Anglesey, and I am a member of the holiday club of the same name. I've also sailed it at Queen Mary SC near Heathrow. I would be happy to discuss boats for hours, but I think we might switch to pms. I dfo have good reasons for not having a D Zero, although the D1 is just about OK (but not as good as RS100) . my kids have been keen on fitting me up with a K1 but its no good for sailing off a beach. If you are a decent sailor, and reasonably active, don't deprive yourself of a few seasons in an RS 700 , or Musto Skiff. Despite the apparent extreme ness a 700 is a gentleman's yacht compared with some single handers (Finn, Int Canoe, OK) Don't rule out a Contender untill you have tried one, but the are a bit big and heavy. Do no more than flirt with an RS600. I could go on, a 2.4 gives close and technical racing.................

    The aero has had nearly every problem amongst its competitors designed out by brilliant solutions, except is it difficult to lower the sail whilst in the boat becourse of the mast heasd haliyard lock, and they don't stsnd up alone when left afloat, making getting rid of, and collectinf the trolley impossible with the sail up (unless you let it capsize)

  11. #11
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    Thanks for that ^^^. My shortlist of boats ebbs and flows, so who knows what I'll end up with. I used to windsurf to instructor level and do speed sailing events, and also had a couple of cruising yachts based in Beaumaris, so I have to decide whether I'm after an adrenalin rush or just something to potter around Chichester harbour (I have lots of friends down that way). Definitely need to get back to salt water somehow.

    Anyway, over and out on that - end of thread-hijack! Off to buy a canoe today......
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Feet View Post
    Anyway, over and out on that - end of thread-hijack! Off to buy a canoe today......
    No worries about the hijack. It's what makes this forum more like a bunch of mates chatting round a fire or in the pub :-)

  13. #13
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    Beerfort Scale.

    Force 0: Sails hanging limp. Tiller tends itself.

    Force 1: Beginning pressure on sails. If sheet is eased out, the tiller still tends itself.

    Force 2: Sails flapping in the breeze, and boat drifting to leeward. Sheets must be tightened and one hand put on the tiller. As the wind fills the sails, the boat heels. Case of beer must be placed on cockpit floor.

    Force 3: The beer may be knocked over and must be supported or held in hand.

    Force 4: Empty bottles rolling against each other on cockpit floor. Must be thrown over side.

    Force 5: All beer streaming behind boat must be hauled in.

    Force 6: Nobody can hold onto more than one beer at a time.

    Force 7: The case of beer slides back and forth on cockpit floor. One person must be appointed to sit on it.

    Force 8: Bottles can still be opened by one person. Beginning of difficulties pouring into the mouth without spilling.

    Force 9: Bottle must be held with two hands. Only experts can get the cap off by themselves.

    Force 10: Two people required to open bottles. Empties must be thrown to leeward only. Very difficult to find mouth. Some teeth may be knocked loose.

    Force 11: The beer tends to foam out of bottle. Very difficult to drink. Lips split and teeth fall out.

    Force 12: All open bottles foam. Impossible to drink. Temporary abstinence may be required.
    This post may vanish at any moment.

  14. #14
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    DougR ... that is beeriliant
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

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