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Thread: Access advice please

  1. #1

    Default Access advice please

    Hi

    I used this forum a few years back to plan a canoeing trip in Scotland. It was a fantastic resource and we had a great trip.
    I would like to do a local paddle with my son and our local river is the River Stour. I found this information that suggests there is a
    19 mile stretch we may be able to paddle.

    Could anyone advise us on wether this is reliable information and suitable for a small local paddle.

    Many thanks


    https://www.kentishstour.org.uk/majo...shing-boating/
    The majority of the River Stour is in private ownership, consequently use of the river for boating and general access is significantly impacted.
    Upstream of the city of Canterbury there is no ‘Right of Navigation’ on the River Stour, this means if you wish to navigate the upper part of the River Stour you need to in theory get permission from every riparian land owner where you wish to navigate the river, consequently the upper part of the River Stour is rarely navigated.


    In Canterbury the only river navigation is by commercial punting companies but downstream of Canterbury from Fordwich there is a right of navigation for 19 miles following the river along the rest of its course out to the English Channel at Pegwell Bay. Sandwich Port and Haven Commissioners oversee Pegwell Bay to three quarters of a mile above Sandwich, but there is no navigation authority directly responsible from the rest of the stretch to Fordwich however the river is maintained along here by the Environment Agency.
    Canoe Wild operate predominantly along the 5 mile stretch of the River Stour from Fordwich to Grove Ferry. They provide kayak and canoe tours along the River Stour allowing you to take in the local area and wildlife at a leisurely paddle. For more information please visit their website.
    After fishing or navigating along the River Stour the Check, Clean and Dry procedure is strongly recommended to prevent the spread of invasive plants and animals in the River Stour. Water users may be unknowingly helping to spread invasive species from or to the River Stour via their equipment, shoes and clothing.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    There should be no access problem there. See also http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/r...ry-to-sandwich

    In general, tidal waters are public unless there's been an Act of Parliament giving control to (for example) a port authority. The legal position on non-tidal waters is not definitive; the position stated by kentishstour,org.uk is that taken by many landowners and fisheries, for the opposite view supported by many paddlers see http://www.riveraccessforall.co.uk/

  3. #3

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    Thanks Chris that's most helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    As Chris says really. The situation as stated on your Kentish Stour website link is these days seen, by the paddling side at least, as incorrect; an historic public right of navigation exists on all rivers unless it has been expressly removed by an act of Parliament, which hasn't happened. All this is explained in the RiverAccessForAll website also linked.

    Realistically, in the upper reaches you may come across weirs and mills which are difficult to get round without causing offence, and even though there's also a legal opinion for it being reasonable to pass such obstacles by the shortest sensible route, its probably more hassle than its worth as they're probably physically awkward too. There are also likely to be natural blockages such as fallen trees.

    For an enjoyable and simple paddle, the best section is probably that from Grove Ferry up to Fordwich and back, using the tide to help you. That would be my recommendation; http://www.paddlepoints.net/PaddlePo...hp?PP=196&r=83


    Have fun!
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  5. #5

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    Thankyou Mal,I'll check that route out

  6. #6
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    You can launch at Fordwich and Grove Ferry. There is a picnic site at Grove where you can leave your car for a couple of pounds a day. Parking at Fordwich is a little more difficult but not impossible.
    The next get out is at Plucks Gutter, bit of a climb up the staging under the bridge.
    Sandwich has a slipway, the concrete does not extend as far as the water at low tide, watch the speed of the tides through here and down past the old Phizers (spelling?) factory and marinas as it runs at 5 or 6 knots.
    You don’t need a license.
    The paddle through Canterbury is interesting and fun. The bit between Canterbury and Fordwich is very overgrown at this time of year, I have gone under the road bridges on the Sturry road but had to turn back after a while as it was impassable.
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  7. #7

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    thank you Silverbirch.

  8. #8
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    You are welcome .
    Tidal difference from Dover.
    Fordwich + 4 and a half hours
    Grove Ferry + 3hours 15 min
    Sandwich +1 hour.

    Fordwich to Sandwich is about 15 miles
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  9. #9

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    I've not done anything tidal before, is there a link maybe with some general information?

  10. #10
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    May 2010
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    I don't know of a general summary of tidal information, so here's a quick summary:

    Sea level rises and falls as a result of the gravity of the moon and the sun. Each cycle is about 12 hours 50 min, so 6:25 rising, 6:25 falling.

    In order to rise and fall, the extra water has to flow back and forth. It sloshes around in the oceans so although the 12:50 cycle is (almost) universal, it's not in sync with the moon and sun, and the time of high water varies depending where you are. For the UK, times are often given as the difference compared to Dover, so you use tide tables for Dover and add or subtract the difference.

    As you go further up a river, the water takes longer to get there from the sea, so high tide is later. Most rivers flood [rise] faster than they ebb [fall] so the pattern gets a bit asymmetrical.

    The two things to concern yourself about are the level and the flow. If you go to a tidal river at low tide you will usually find a muddy river bed with a river in the middle. The speed of the flow varies; along the coast, it typically starts slowly, reaches a peak about 3 to 3.5hrs in and slows down to the point where it turns at 6:25. Some way up a river, the flood comes in fast (on the Severn, for example, fast enough to form a wave, called the bore) and then slows gradually until high water (HW) where it may stand for a while, then ebbs at increasing speed for about 3 hrs before slowing again to become just a river.

    If it's rained a lot, the river flow meets the tide coming the other way so slows it down and raises the level.

  11. #11
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    Romsey, Paddle estuaries within an hour, also club member and coach, and scout canoeing helper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    As Chris says really. The situation as stated on your Kentish Stour website link is these days seen, by the paddling side at least, as incorrect; an historic public right of navigation exists on all rivers unless it has been expressly removed by an act of Parliament, which hasn't happened. All this is explained in the RiverAccessForAll website also linked.

    Realistically, in the upper reaches you may come across weirs and mills which are difficult to get round without causing offence, and even though there's also a legal opinion for it being reasonable to pass such obstacles by the shortest sensible route, its probably more hassle than its worth as they're probably physically awkward too. There are also likely to be natural blockages such as fallen trees.

    Have fun!
    The upper reaches were paddled from near Wye in 1920 - see
    As the Rivers Flow, Eleanor Barnes, Helen Stratton, p170
    As the Rivers Flow, Eleanor Barnes, Helen Stratton, p170
    Brevan,
    The truth (about Rights of Navigation) is out there
    Romsey, Hampshire
    Twitter: BrevanM
    Follow my blog at http://riveraccessrights.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
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    Historically there was a right of navigation as far as Ashford. But over the years several friends have tried to paddle various sections between Wye and Thanington Without and came across the « get off my river « brigade.
    The local canoe club used to paddle a section near Shalmsford street / Chartham.
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Historically there was a right of navigation as far as Ashford
    So, unless it's been removed (which I think would require an Act of Parliament) there still is.
    several friends have tried to paddle various sections between Wye and Thanington Without and came across the « get off my river « brigade
    I understand why that puts people off paddling, it puts me off paddling - but we shouldn't let them push us off a right of navigation, particularly if it's explicit.

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