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Thread: Hello again from scotland

  1. #1
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    Talking Hello again from scotland

    Hello everyone I hope your all enjoying the start of the summer, I joined this forum about a year ago but I am sad to say I haven't been very active so far so thought I'd reintroduce myself, i stay not to far from glasgow in Scotland and have mainly just been paddling myself or with my fiancée, solo is mostly a recreational kayak or if my fiancée comes we use an intex k2 explorer inflatable, we mainly paddle castle semple and loch lomond and have done a few camping trips on the islands there aswell, now the good part.......... My fiancée is enjoying coming out more and is happy to get our first real canoe which I have been hoping for for some time now, it will be mostly packed up camping trips for a few days at a time with some day trips aswell whenever we can and I also intend to paddle it solo from time to time, I'm thinking something flat bottomed recreational style like an old town discovery or similar, I also like the look of the riber 16 3 seater on ebay brand new with paddles and buoyancy aids for £600 which seems like a good buy but a tad on the heavy side at 46kg, the most important thing for us is stability, I am quite comfortable with leaning over to the gunnels to make turning and long distances easier but my fiancée is the opposite, she feels nervous if it's too tippy, if their are any other recommendations on other models I would greatly appreciate the advice, preferably around £500 as I don't want to spend too much on our first canoe or have to wait too long saving, thank you all for reading, I look forward to reading through many of your journeys and sharing my own paddle story's aswell, stay safe and happy paddling

  2. #2
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    Hello again and good luck finding your first canoe.

    For £500 I'd be looking secondhand. The Riber is OK, but 46kg is so heavy that loading and unloading it on cars may put you off so much you don't use it as much as you'd like to.
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  3. #3
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    Thank you Mal, that's what I'm hoping for, I'm looking through all the classified sites every day, I'm sure the right one will come along soon

  4. #4
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    If you are gong for any of the general propector type canoe or the like I would not worry about the tippy issue. Actually bar a really narrow racing canoe I’d not worry about the tippyness. You get used to your canoe and in no time it feels stable for you even if it feels tippy for everyone else.

    I’m just round the corner from Castle Semple and I have a 17 foot Nova Craft prospector and a 15 foot Wenonah Prospector you can try sometime if you want. With the lighter nights now we could probably arrange an evening paddle sometime on a weekday.
    John

  5. #5
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    Hi John that's nice to see someone is not too far from me and that would be very much appreciated as I've yet to have a go in a proper canoe although I have known I will get one for the past year or two, a prospector type would be an option, along with others such as the old town discovery, Charles River models, I was actually at castle semple tonight on my inflatable solo, it was a little windy though and tracking was a good laugh, I had to use my kayak paddles joined together to double the length so I could get moving without getting wet, I normally paddle it like a canoe at one side to save water coming in but I'd have been going backwards or in circles had I tried that tonight , do you paddle solo mainly or do you go out tandem in those canoes? I think I would/could get used to most boats tippy ness it's my fiancée that is determined we get the most stable less tippy no leaning craft we can find lol, knowing her she'll no doubt have me fitting outriggers to it aswell for when she comes out, I can't complain too much though, atleast she does come out with me on the water

  6. #6
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    I very occasionally paddle the 17 foot canoe solo. I is mainly tandem and tripping. The 15 foot is probably equally used solo and tandem. It serves both purposes well and is only limited tandem wise by the load carrying capacity.

    Regarding stability, every canoe seems tippy when you haven’t paddled it and every canoe seems stable once you’ve paddled it enough. It is worth keeping that in mind as some people can spook themselves on the first trip and never go back to it.

    Inflatables often need a kayak paddle but with experience you really shouldn’t need one in a regular canoe. I had one for emergencies when I was starting out but soon realised it was never getting used and gave it away. A canoe pole can be used in a pinch but that’s a discussion for after you start standing in your canoe more
    John

  7. #7
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    The difficulty with explaining stability to your other half is that a big wide flat bottomed canoe that seems/looks stable, may not ultimately be the hardest to fall out of. Canoes have both primary and secondary stability. Primary is that feeling when you first step into the canoe and it feels either solid or twitchy. Secondary is more about what happens when you turn, lean or generally use the canoe as its designed, and as the canoe leans, you will find that there is a point when it balances very well and, depending on the design, sort of "pushes back" against the lean (Hard to explain!). This is more important than primary stability in terms of stopping a capsize. It is perfectly possible to have a canoe with good initial stability that flips over very easily when leaned too far by accident, whereas a canoe with less primary stability but excellent secondary will be much harder to flip.

    Prospectors are generally a difficult canoe to overturn, especially the Novacraft variants I'd say. However, their slightly curved bottom means that some people step into them and think they're not stable. They are. They also tend to have good freeboard (depth to the sides above the waterline) and thus don't take on water easily. They're arguably not the best to paddle for open/flat water, as they're not quite as efficient, but they cope well in waves. They really come into their own as a tripping boat on rivers or expedition trips, as they are also pretty good to manoeuvre.

    Getting in and out is often where those unfamiliar with canoes tend to think their going to fall in. As long as you step into the middle of the canoe, not near the sides or gunwhales, and get your weight low pretty quickly, you both should be fine in any tandem canoe likely to come up in your price range. Just avoid specialist whitewater or "race" canoes and go for an all rounder.
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  8. #8
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    That's what I have been struggling to get my fiancée to understand, I understand primary and secondary stability and to me I don't see the point in having something that may be stable to step in and out but a little lean and it capsizes quickly unless a fast reaction and brace can save it( something I'd have to do myself at the stern only) a shaped hull to me makes more sense as its the secondary stability that's going to keep you upright when moving and if conditions change and also since we are planning on having it heavy loaded with camping gear I've also read that a flat bottom can feel a lot more tippy and more unpredictable when it is loaded up, it is a little frustrating because I am the only one putting any time into learning and reading up on different hull, sides, rocker shape and how they affect the handling and can see why other boats would make more sense, my fiancée on the other hand has no interest in the learning side of things but is determined a flat bottom is better because videos of them look less tippy, I can see myself with a flat bottomed canoe to start with and more than likely a nice solo for me in future when funds allow, thank you all again for the detailed replys

  9. #9
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    A canoe pole can be used in a pinch but that’s a discussion for after you start standing in your canoe more [/QUOTE]
    haha I think i'll try and get the hang of getting in and sitting down before I try that, mind you a bit of stand up canoe surfing sounds like a fun game to play on a sunny day

  10. #10
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    Most people think poling a canoe is way off in the future for them and a thing of legend. In truth its pretty straight forward and something most people can try on their second or third outing. The river at Castle Semple has some good bits for trying it out.
    John

  11. #11
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    I've just looked up poling a canoe there, I hadn't heard of that technique before, similar to how a gondola is propelled by the look of it and a very traditional way of propulsion relating to different cultures, it must look pretty impressive to see someone do that on flat water let alone a river, definitely a technique I'd be reserving for our warmest of days as I have a slight feeling I might get wetter than the bottom of the canoe lol, this is what I'm liking about canoes there is so much information to learn it keeps it interesting and with techniques like poling aswell you can travel in style and also be a bit different to the rest of the group, so long as it doesn't get too deep I'd imagine,

  12. #12
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    I’ve introduced quite a few people to poling and none have fallen in yet. It’s like your fiancé worrying about canoes being tippy. The chances of falling in are far less than you imagine
    John

  13. #13
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    I wouldn't have thought that but I suppose you don't know until you try, I believe you though, I'll need to give it a try sometime, do you know if there are more members around this area?

  14. #14
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    With the canoe hull shapes and a nervous fiancee i can probably add some comments from my experience with combining the two.

    Initially it was an interesting one for us moving from a Intex k2 like yourself and got a MR explorer 14tt with a slight V hull then moving over to a NC prospector 15 with a flat hull.

    The beginning was quite sketchy with her nerves as it does feel more unstable as you are higher put of the water and she was worried about falling out but gradually i got her round to the idea that she can sit over to the side she is paddling on and ill do the same on the opposite side that way the canoe sits level continuously and feels more stable than having to lean out and paddle from a central position. Although in wind of when it is feeling abit wobbly she normally ends up progressing from kneeling to sitting on the bottom of the boat for more balance. (Sitting on the seat is very rare for her as it again feels more unstable)

    With the different hull shapes we didn't notice a huge difference when tandeming although the prospector was alot more enjoyable for me solo as i find if edges over nicer. (Maybe marginally more stable when paddled flat as a tandem)
    I think the hull shape made less of a difference than than actual width of the boats from my experience, other will correct me if they have experienced differently
    Last edited by Ellery; 21st-May-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  15. #15
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    Thank you Ellery that's good to see how you found the change from the same boat we are using just now to a canoe, I will definitely be trying paddle from the sides rather than centre position, that sounds much better, interesting that you found the Hull shape did not make a huge impact either and that the flat bottom leaned over better for you solo, I think a prospector is definitely one we are considering, I also have it in my head if whatever canoe we get does feel unstable for her to want to come out, I'll happily make up an outrigger for more stability, one that can easily be removed when I want to go solo

  16. #16
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    moving over to a NC prospector 15 with a flat hull.
    For info purposes and to help in making a considered choice when canoe buying, all of the NC Prospectors have a shallow arch hull, not a flat bottom.
    Nin Wanakiwidee Tchiman

  17. #17
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    Thanks Old man, I really like the look of the prospector aswell

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon1990 View Post
    do you know if there are more members around this area?
    Quite a lot. Must be a half dozen just in Lochwinnoch. Obviously some are more active on the forum than others but when we have a big meet up or clean up we can get a decent turn out.
    John

  19. #19
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    That's brilliant, hopefully I'll meet some of them out on the water

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