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Thread: Hou canoes not stocked...

  1. #1

    Default Hou canoes not stocked...

    Iím seeing lots of stores saying they no longer stock Hou canoes but instead point toward Enigma.

    Not knowing whatís going on but as the Enigma is made in the same factory is it a simple split in Hou and new business emerging or something else?

    Only asking as I was looking at a Hou and would want to know before buying it (or the Enigma).

    Anyone heard anything?


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  2. #2
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    The Enigma is the own brand canoe from the Canoe Shops Group (Manchester, Bournemouth, Brighton, Southampton, Norfolk, Cornwall, Kayak & Paddles) and is from the same mould as the Hou but may be fitted out differently. I'd expect it to be replacing the Hou in those shops but not others.

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    Does Hou also buy them in, or do they own the right the moulds, and are still taking a Royalty from the Own Label as it were?

  4. #4

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    Hi Guys,

    In response to the questions raised above....

    Enigma Canoes is a registered Trademark brand owned by The Canoe Shops Group.
    Manufactured in the same UK factory as HOU, from the same moulds.
    No Royalty is paid to HOU as they own no title to the moulds or design rights.

    Enigma Canoes is a brand established from a desire to offer a comprehensive range of UK made Canoes to sit alongside our Nova Craft Imports.
    Our aim is to be able to provide our customers with the best of British & Canadian designs.

    Hope that helps answer some of the questions.
    Check out https://www.enigma-canoes.co.uk/ for further info.

    Thanks

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    Thanks, that's interesting. Begs the question of how many other 'clones' are out there, built in the same moulds.

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    I believe the moulds have quite an interesting history, but don't know much of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSG View Post
    Our aim is to be able to provide our customers with the best of British & Canadian designs.
    Strikes me that the aim is to cut out the middle man and shaft Hou. Mind you, the Canoe Shops Group looks to me like some characterless cartel... but if their identikit stores can swallow up page 1 of Google, it must be good business. Personally, I'd rather buy from the independents.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

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    Mind you, the Canoe Shops Group looks to me like some characterless cartel
    Sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing . A novice friend of mine spoke to Cornwall Canoes, who are a part of this cartel, with a view to buying an Enigma 15' and he was told that the design was the same as a Nova Craft SP Prospector. I then phoned them to confirm this as I thought it a bit odd and was told the same. I found that rather strange, as they already sell the actual NC version. It would appear that the people running the Cornish branch don't know their onions.

    I bought a Nova Craft from the Ivybridge branch and I have to say, that at the time good customer after sales service didn't feature in their vocabulary.
    Nin Wanakiwidee Tchiman

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD MAN View Post
    Sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing . A novice friend of mine spoke to Cornwall Canoes, who are a part of this cartel, with a view to buying an Enigma 15' and he was told that the design was the same as a Nova Craft SP Prospector. I then phoned them to confirm this as I thought it a bit odd and was told the same. I found that rather strange, as they already sell the actual NC version.
    I've always thought the Hou Prospector was rather similar in shape to an NC Prospector! The RX rather than the SP3 though.

    This is an odd one. The market is not big enough to handle all these currently growing UK brands if some of the dealers are tied to their own.
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    If there are no rights reserved for the moulds, then I guess anyone can do this.

    So... look out for The Rubber Duck Canoe Co. Featuring the entry level Hello M'Duck 13, the tandem DuckDuck 14 and the Big Duck 16, otherwise known as The Donald - all in Rubber Duck Yellow. They all be light as a feather and only available on the 'web' (geddit). Expect them to fly off the shelves.

    I'll get my coat...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSG View Post
    Hi Guys,

    In response to the questions raised above....

    Enigma Canoes is a registered Trademark brand owned by The Canoe Shops Group.
    Manufactured in the same UK factory as HOU, from the same moulds.
    No Royalty is paid to HOU as they own no title to the moulds or design rights.

    Enigma Canoes is a brand established from a desire to offer a comprehensive range of UK made Canoes to sit alongside our Nova Craft Imports.
    Our aim is to be able to provide our customers with the best of British & Canadian designs.

    Hope that helps answer some of the questions.
    Check out https://www.enigma-canoes.co.uk/ for further info.

    Thanks
    So if the above is true how can you advertise the Prospector as "The Enigma Prospector 16 is our take on one of the most popular hull shapes on the open canoeing scene. We believe we have made the Enigma Canoes Prospector 16 in the perfect length, rocker and arch."
    Surely it is the same as the Hou

  12. #12
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    I believe the moulds have quite an interesting history, but don't know much of it.
    I understood that some, at least, came from Mobile Adventure (Colin Broadway).

    If there are no rights reserved for the moulds, then I guess anyone can do this
    I don't think CSG said there are no rights or royalties, only that they don't belong to Hou.

    Canoe Shops Group looks to me like some characterless cartel... ...I'd rather buy from the independents
    My local shop is Manchester Canoes, part of CSG, and I find them very helpful. The group is basically an independent that's expanded, not a cartel.

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    I cannot vouch for any of this, first its hearsay and second, I'm old and can't rely on my memory. In the early 70s,when I started paddling, there was a firm called, I think, Mobile Adventure who made canoes. When they departed, their moulds were kept by someone, and some reappeared as Hou, or so I have been told. I wrote and posted before I saw Chris B's post.

    I have tried to find Manchester Canoes at an address on Grange Industrial Area in Warrington but failed.

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    Purely from a branding point of view, what has canoeing got to do with the Enigma (as in Bletchley Park)? I can imagine some marketing wonk selling them the brilliant idea of a pun on Turing and Touring (geddit) and it gathering steam from there. Mind you Apache's didn't use canoes, so I suppose anything goes.

    Anyway, enough grumpiness from me.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

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    Enigma was a word in the English language long before it was adopted by code breakers. I recall Elgar used it for a piece of music; I don't think he was thinking of cyphers.

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    The group is basically an independent that's expanded, not a cartel.
    It could be construed that they are heading in that direction as they appear to currently have a large slice of the market.
    Nin Wanakiwidee Tchiman

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    SotP has a large slice of the canoe forum market so it’s not always a bad thing
    John

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    [QUOTE=MagiKelly;667043]SotP has a large slice of the canoe forum market so itís not always a bad thing [/Q


    Good point
    Nin Wanakiwidee Tchiman

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Feet View Post
    Strikes me that the aim is to cut out the middle man and shaft Hou. Mind you, the Canoe Shops Group looks to me like some characterless cartel... but if their identikit stores can swallow up page 1 of Google, it must be good business. Personally, I'd rather buy from the independents.
    For your information we were buying, selling & paddling these Canoes back in the early 90's and long before they were re-branded as HOU or anything else.
    When the Rotational Moulders offered to mould a range of canoes for us, we took them up on the offer and provide our own out-fitting and branding.

    CSG does not have anywhere near a monopoly, nor does it have any resemblance to a 'Cartel' as you put it.
    We are a family run & totally independent organisation, formed from a love of paddling.

    If you care to read the following, you might actually learn something about this ''characterless cartel''

    https://www.canoe-shops.co.uk/about-us.htm
    Last edited by CSG; 30th-January-2019 at 11:57 AM.

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    +++ 1 for Manchester Canoes and their staff. As Impcanoe has stated, they can be a bit hard to find ,even if you know where they are !
    I like canoes ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Enigma was a word in the English language long before it was adopted by code breakers. I recall Elgar used it for a piece of music; I don't think he was thinking of cyphers.
    True, but my point was that the Enigma touring canoe is called the 'Turing'. I guess some might find it witty.
    Last edited by Duck Feet; 30th-January-2019 at 01:14 PM.
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

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    As Impcanoe has stated, they can be a bit hard to find ,even if you know where they are !
    I think the problem in finding them only occurs if you know where they used to be and don't know they've moved - where they are now is a couple of streets away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck Feet View Post
    True, but my point was that the Enigma touring canoe is called the 'Turing'. I guess some might find it witty.
    Sorry, went right over my head without this additional information.

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