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Thread: Bootlace or Webbing ??

  1. #1
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    Default Bootlace or Webbing ??

    My new Pal has bootlace seats. They look smart but I don't find them as comfy as the webbing ones in my old prospector. I'm probably going to fit a kneeling seat, would it be hideously sacrilegious if I fitted a webbing one ?

  2. #2
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    Fit what you want, the worst that can happen is that people point and laugh, Col ! I agree, webbing is very comfy, though if its really hot I think lacing would be less sweaty.

    The narrower Apache kneeling seat has always looked decent to me, assuming you're wanting to kneel the majority of the time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    Fit what you want, the worst that can happen is that people point and laugh,
    I'm big enough and ugly enough to cope with that :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    Col ! I agree, webbing is very comfy, though if its really hot I think lacing would be less sweaty.
    Hadn't thought of that


    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    The narrower Apache kneeling seat has always looked decent to me, assuming you're wanting to kneel the majority of the time.
    Yes, looked at them. Don't know why the actual seat area doesn't go out wider towards the gunwhales though; looks like healed over, you'd end up with half a cheek in the open bit of the "H". I'm thinking fitting a kneeling seat between the existing bow seat and the yoke. Then if I want to sit and slouch for a bit, I can just scoot my fat arse back. I have a kneeling thwart fitted the other side of the yoke on my prospector so if I want to swap between sitting and kneeling, I have to chuck some stuff about and face the other way.

    Might buy a NC centre seat, might buy the Apache one, or might make something. Probably going to rough something up first to decide on position.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigyellowtractor View Post

    Might buy a NC centre seat, might buy the Apache one, or might make something. Probably going to rough something up first to decide on position.
    Sounds sensible. Bootstrap Bob fitted a kneeling thwart in a similar position between yoke and bow seat, reversed. He uses it as you describe, though with the thwart being narrow compared to even the Apache seat, he can sit on the bow seat without it getting in the way at all, as I remember it. You can see it here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bushcraftbob/19890737349/

  5. #5
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    My additional seat is a kneeling / sitting seat, full width and depth, inclined, and carefully positioned so that as well as being a comfy long term kneeler, I can sit with my legs outstretched and still have knees under the yoke. Finally, it sits on four pins on fore and aft stringers and is held down by velcro, making it fail safe, and removable when tandeming.

    If we had a decent photo system, I have photos, and I could post, but meanwhile they are texted to you. (having a bit of a problem with that too

  6. #6
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    I replaced the rotten cane or twine seating on my 1st canoe with webbing - old car, safety belts. - obtained for nothing from a car scrap yard. I was wondering how I was going to attach them to the wooden frame and at a loss to think of a permanent method I simply used a staple gun. That must have been around 1982 and they are still well attached. I find them very comfortable and the ventilation perfectly adequate.
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impcanoe View Post
    My additional seat is a kneeling / sitting seat, full width and depth, inclined, and carefully positioned so that as well as being a comfy long term kneeler, I can sit with my legs outstretched and still have knees under the yoke. Finally, it sits on four pins on fore and aft stringers and is held down by velcro, making it fail safe, and removable when tandeming.

    If we had a decent photo system, I have photos, and I could post, but meanwhile they are texted to you. (having a bit of a problem with that too
    Thanks Peter,

    We have discussed this in the past and I'm pretty sure you sent me some pickies and dims. I am going to go for something very similar.

    "A wise man learns from his mistakes. The clever man learns from the mistakes of others"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Perry View Post
    I replaced the rotten cane or twine seating on my 1st canoe with webbing - old car, safety belts. - obtained for nothing from a car scrap yard. I was wondering how I was going to attach them to the wooden frame and at a loss to think of a permanent method I simply used a staple gun. That must have been around 1982 and they are still well attached. I find them very comfortable and the ventilation perfectly adequate.
    David, I did pick up some seat-belts a while ago for this purpose but also bought some 40mm webbing as well. Are your staples stainless or just bog-standard ??

  9. #9
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    Staples stainless for me.

    Impcanoe, and its ok, I've finished watching the streaming of the 18fters from Sydney Harbour and can concentrate now.

  10. #10
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    Kneeling thwart in my Pal as it moves you a nice bit forward.

  11. #11
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    Surely comfort depends on how close you space the lacing or webbing?

    As a completely different option, I once re-covered my brothers worn out webbing seats using some cordura fabric which I hemmed all round and fitted some brass eyelets to - it was something I could prepare 250 miles away that wouldn't take an age to fit once I had picked up the canoe to use it for a trip. Had to guess a bit on the size - the cordura wrapped around the slats so the eyelets and open lacing was just on the underneath. Option to leave a little saggy and comfortable, or tighten like a drum skin so it felt like a plank!

    How hard can it be?

  12. #12
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    Jim, you are correct. The lacing on the NC seats is quite open. I have ordered a seat to match existing that I will set up similar to Peter's. If I find it an issue in the long term, I'll rig up something similar to your idea to cover it over and stop me getting little circular patterns on my fat arse.

  13. #13
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    I find the laced NC seats really comfortable, there are 3 in my NCP17RxL ... 3 of us managed 55 miles Stoke --> Birmingham via canal non stop and then we managed ~75miles of the Cheshire Ring. I don't think any of us suffered from PAS (Patterned Arse Syndrome) ... but I've webbing seats in my Mad River and they are OK ... cane in my solo Minuet also OK. It's your boat so fit whatever suits you best.
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potty Paddler View Post
    I don't think any of us suffered from PAS (Patterned Arse Syndrome)
    It might be a case of "just feels different" because I'm used to webbing. I will check and advise after some more use (I promise not to post photos)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigyellowtractor View Post
    Jim, you are correct. The lacing on the NC seats is quite open. I have ordered a seat to match existing that I will set up similar to Peter's. If I find it an issue in the long term, I'll rig up something similar to your idea to cover it over and stop me getting little circular patterns on my fat arse.
    To clarify, the old (apparently rotten) webbing had already been removed, my brother was mostly using the boat solo without a seat (maybe a kneeling thwart, or may not) and had never got round to replacing the webbing because he never used the seats in the ends. I needed to do a 5 day tandem trip in it so had to arrange some seats! The cordura covers were the seats. We did as many miles portaging as paddling, seats probably weren't important in the end, we definitely spent a lot more time out of the boat than in it!

    How hard can it be?

  16. #16
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    The Cordura casing sounds really good, especially if there was some padding wrapped around the seat-frame first. For me, the most uncomfortable part of a seat - bootlace, cane OR webbing - is when the support begins to stretch / sag and you are effectively sitting on the front frame!

    This was so uncomfortable in the case of our cane-seated boat's rear seat (looking at the stern from the bow seat - solo....) that I decided to change it to a hollow, plastic job from, as I remember, a Disco 156?? I also moved the seat forward a bit which meant that I was - when paddling tandem - no longer trying to balance on the stern deck to give the "cheeks" a rest!

    Perfic! It may not look "authentic", but who cares, no sore bum!:







    G

    'Adventure is relative. My adventure is another's commonplace.'

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigyellowtractor View Post
    David, I did pick up some seat-belts a while ago for this purpose but also bought some 40mm webbing as well. Are your staples stainless or just bog-standard ??
    Just plain ones. They are now a little rusted but lasted much, much longer than I thought they would. I suppose I could now use brass tacks to prolong their life.

    What I can remember now, is that I fixed them underneath the seat and used the long length of seat belt to pull and get them taut enough to then fix on the other side of the seat, again stapling underneath before cutting that length off In other words I didn't cut the seat belt up into individual strips prior to fixing. If my memories also correct I probably just used an ordinary stapler with the jaws opened!
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

  18. #18
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    Thanks David, all good info.

  19. #19
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    Normal staples are ok especially if you give them a dab of varnish or resin to seal them.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigyellowtractor View Post
    I'm big enough and ugly enough to cope with that :-)




    Hadn't thought of that




    Yes, looked at them. Don't know why the actual seat area doesn't go out wider towards the gunwhales though; looks like healed over, you'd end up with half a cheek in the open bit of the "H". I'm thinking fitting a kneeling seat between the existing bow seat and the yoke. Then if I want to sit and slouch for a bit, I can just scoot my fat arse back. I have a kneeling thwart fitted the other side of the yoke on my prospector so if I want to swap between sitting and kneeling, I have to chuck some stuff about and face the other way.

    Might buy a NC centre seat, might buy the Apache one, or might make something. Probably going to rough something up first to decide on position.
    You can always specify the Wide bendy kneeling seat. It's the one most people ask for when spec'ing their canoes. The seat area is 600mm wide.
    "I'd far rather be happy than right any day"..........Slartibartfast

    http://apachecanoes.com

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzle View Post
    It may be comfortable but this sort of behaviour should not be encouraged!

    Sam

  22. #22
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    ROFL.

    If you'd spent the previous, two-week trip perching either on the front bar of the ridiculously tiny stern seat, or actually on the even tinier rear deck, to ease the relevant bits on 20km+ flat water days, you might have a bit more sympathy!

    My boat - my seat!! ;-)

    (actually, my original idea was to take a mold and laminate a copy in glass cloth, epoxy and thin timber of some sort, might even do it still, but the need was urgent and the relief was palpable!

    Although, that trip was as nothing compared with the 5/6 day, totally unpracticed bike ride on a rented bike the previous year. I discovered bits, bleeeding, that I didn't even know that I had!)

    Why do we do these things, Eh?!

    Lead on!
    G

    'Adventure is relative. My adventure is another's commonplace.'

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