Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Skeg or rudder for Wenonah Prism (solo)

  1. #1

    Default Skeg or rudder for Wenonah Prism (solo)

    I am wondering if anyone has attempted to put a rudder or skeg on their Wenonah Prism. It is a great boat except for when you have a strong tail wind. It is hard to manage and continues to weather cock into the wind. Seat is far back. Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    21,179

    Default

    Hello and Welcome!

    Compared to many, the Prism should be pretty good in wind, if trim is also good (and it sounds like yours will be trimmed towards the stern with a seat pushed back - the stern should be heaviest in a following wind). It almost sounds as if your bows are heavier, if its weathercocking so they turn into the wind, but if you're seats set back, the bows ought to be lighter and naturally tend to turn away from the wind.

    I'm therefore not sure what's causing your issues but, and please don't take this the wrong way, perhaps getting a coach to help you with some hints and tips would be a better next step than something as drastic as a skeg, which will alter other characteristic such as turning. Try adding a little more weight behind you for starters, a gear bag or just a dry bag filled with water, and see if that helps.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Robin Hood's Bay,Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,753

    Default

    Like Mal says, the weight of everything in the boat should be towards the rear, basically making the bows high enough to catch the following wind. Once you've got that right it'll be fine. Don't worry too much if this puts you in an odd sitting position in the canoe. You can always 'trim' the boat by shifting either the gear, if you carry any, or yourself around the boat till its right.
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    580

    Default

    I have a Prism, and have not found any problem, but as said, you need to get the trim right. It sounds as if you are trying to do that, ie, "Seat is far back" - I assume that means you have the adjustable sliding (aka 'tractor') seat. I have the height/angle adjustable webbing seat. I wonder if there is a difference in C of G position between the two types of seat?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Further thought - does the problem occur in waves or on flat water? You can get control problems on waves if the boat is on the wrong part of the wave, ie, the bow is stuck in the wave in front and the stern is up and catching the wind.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    Hello and Welcome!

    Compared to many, the Prism should be pretty good in wind, if trim is also good (and it sounds like yours will be trimmed towards the stern with a seat pushed back - the stern should be heaviest in a following wind). It almost sounds as if your bows are heavier, if its weathercocking so they turn into the wind, but if you're seats set back, the bows ought to be lighter and naturally tend to turn away from the wind.

    I'm therefore not sure what's causing your issues but, and please don't take this the wrong way, perhaps getting a coach to help you with some hints and tips would be a better next step than something as drastic as a skeg, which will alter other characteristic such as turning. Try adding a little more weight behind you for starters, a gear bag or just a dry bag filled with water, and see if that helps.
    Thanks for the reply. I won't take it the wrong way, but I am an experienced paddler. It only happens in strong winds (i.e. gusting 50km/hr) with some swells. I have my 50lb dog in the front and gear in the back. I'll try to add more weight to the stern and see what happens.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    21,179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toby13 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I won't take it the wrong way, but I am an experienced paddler. It only happens in strong winds (i.e. gusting 50km/hr) with some swells. I have my 50lb dog in the front and gear in the back. I'll try to add more weight to the stern and see what happens.
    I wonder if Chris B's last thought might be having an effect. In tailing swell, I've sometimes found my stern being pushed around by the waves coming from behind me. The fairly sharp bows and stern may both by prone to this on a Prism?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hebrides
    Posts
    3,234

    Default

    How about deploying a drogue when necessary?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    between Kinross and Alloa, Scotland
    Posts
    2,488

    Default

    I used to have a Prism and can confirm that in high winds and following 'sea' it handles very badly, no matter how it is trimmed. I sold it before fitting a rudder, but have fitted a rudder to an Escape, which is similar, though bigger.

    I cut a 6" hole in the rear air tank to access the stem for drilling/fitting, then fitted a Holm {?} hatch cover: a neat solution that also gives a bit of storage as a bonus. I use an Opi flip up/down rudder but only when sailing.
    If it wasn't for the rain in our lives there would be no rivers. X 2

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    21,179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tenboats1 View Post
    I used to have a Prism and can confirm that in high winds and following 'sea' it handles very badly, no matter how it is trimmed. I sold it before fitting a rudder, but have fitted a rudder to an Escape, which is similar, though bigger.

    I cut a 6" hole in the rear air tank to access the stem for drilling/fitting, then fitted a Holm {?} hatch cover: a neat solution that also gives a bit of storage as a bonus. I use an Opi flip up/down rudder but only when sailing.
    Interesting. Sounds like its probably the waves rather than the actual wind then? Anyway, Toby, that will be pretty much the definitive answer from a very experienced paddler. So its certainly not just you

  11. #11
    Crow's Avatar
    Crow is offline こんにちは。私はカラスと私はスコットラ ンドの出身で す。
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Third stone from the sun
    Posts
    16,081
    Journal Entries
    10

    Default

    I have a Prism and I always find it easier paddling into the wind than with the wind behind me.

    It would be interesting to have some sort of pedal controlled rudder like you get in sea kayaks, but I wouldn't be that keen on cutting holes in mine.

    Here comes the future and you can't run from it
    If you've got a blacklist I want to be on it


    Crow Trip Log

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    S-o-T, U.K.
    Posts
    4,546

    Default

    I've a 16'6" Wenonah Advantage Kevlar Utralight, it's very similar to the Prism. The (or a) previous owner had affixed a little skeg under the stern. It wa quite a neat job and consisted of a shaped and polished piece of "L" section aluminium and was epoxied in place.
    My first job on getting the boat home was to very carefully remove the skeg, I've never regretted removing it as I don't need it and I was mainly worried about dropping the boat on it or catching it and breaking the boat or the skeg.

    You could make something similar and stick it in place, out of say a bit of square section plastic down-pipe or the like ... something that would bend or break before your boat does
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    between Kinross and Alloa, Scotland
    Posts
    2,488

    Default

    Or do a proper job and fit a sea kayak skeg. I did this once to a glass boat and it was a useful feature, though of course a bit left field for an open boat! However, in extremis it is not always possible to alter trim [in the middle of a blow, far from shore, with a big dog on board etc] so being able to just flick a skeg down can be a god send.
    If it wasn't for the rain in our lives there would be no rivers. X 2

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Lancaster
    Posts
    196

    Default

    Perhaps speak to www.solwaydory.co.uk/ to get a rudder fitted? They are very experienced in fitting rudders to canoes for sailing and could advise on the best way to do it. The standard fittings are relatively unobtrusive and it would mean you could take it off/pop it on as required. They could also make you a rudder - I expect yours could be quite a bit smaller than one needed whilst sailing.

    I know that Mark there is also into his sea kayaking and I have always found him good to run my (of kilter) ideas past so a good person to speak to.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Enkhuizen
    Posts
    528

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by toby13 View Post
    I am wondering if anyone has attempted to put a rudder or skeg on their Wenonah Prism. It is a great boat except for when you have a strong tail wind. It is hard to manage and continues to weather cock into the wind. Seat is far back. Any suggestions?
    Manoeuvrable boats benefit more from a (variable) skeg,
    straight tracking boats benefit more from a rudder.
    Long boats benefit more from a rudder than short boats.
    Heavily loaded boats benefit more from a rudder than lightly loaded boats.

    Personally in designs like the WNN Prism,
    I prefer to trim stern heavy in those conditions
    be very carefull not to load (too) heavy, and -- if needed -- just keep
    the forward speed down with doing a "paddle rudder" and certainly
    do not use forward sweep strokes for course corrections!

    Dirk Barends
    Last edited by canonymous; 11th-July-2018 at 12:36 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •