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Thread: How would I identify which yacht/dinghy a sail is off?

  1. #1
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    Default How would I identify which yacht/dinghy a sail is off?

    Only very vaguely canoe sailing related, possibly a little cheeky but I know there are some "proper" sailors on here too. I've got a pile of sails I bought on ebay with a view to maybe cutting one of them down for the canoe. Some were sold as a job lot with no measurements or much of a description or picture. I took a chance. They turned out to be huge. I'm now getting "looks" from Mrs stinkwheel when she sees them about the house so need to get rid of them... There are three I'm still trying to ID so I can put them back on ebay, (two are a pair). An unspecified sail (as the seller of these found) doesn't attract much interest.

    The two I know are a Pico Jib sail and a Mirror Jib sail. Both of these are in pretty good nick so should sell well and quickly.

    The others are much more worn but do have a makers name and number on them. Would this ID them? Or would I just land up annoying the sailmakers by asking? They also have a race number on them but I think this goes with the person, not the boat?

    Or hopefully someone on here might recognise them?

    First is a big white sail. I think it's a main because there are pockets for battens? Made by Elvstrom Sails, Denmark. Leech: 4,600mm (15ft), Luff: 5,500mm (18ft), Foot: 1,880mm (6ft 2").



    Tack:


    Clew:


    Head:


    Then there is a big, greeny-blue (more so than the picture suggests) main supplied by JR Williams (Chandlery) Ltd of Hamble. Leech: 5,230mm (17ft 2"), Luff: 2,400mm (7ft 10"), foot: 2,400mm (8ft)



    Tack:


    Clew:


    Head:


    Then there is a jib which goes with the greeny-blue main. Leech: 3,700mm (12ft), Luff: 4,550 (15ft); Foot 1,640mm (5ft 4").



    It has these fancy (distinctive?) brass spring-loaded clips along the leech.



    Of course, if anyone wants any of them, they are for sale.

    I have now got something a lot more appropriate in size for my canoe which I will be rigging shortly.
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

  2. #2
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    The "G" is a Graduate and the pale blue "E" is an Enterprise. There's no real way to know unless you are/were a dinghy sailor!

    The race number goes with the boat. It's unlikely anyone who was going to race would buy sails on eBay because they wouldn't be on eBay unless they had been replaced by better ones, but if anyone di want to race they could change the number.

  3. #3
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    Fantastic! Thanks for that. I can get them sold and out from under the feet now! They're in good enough nick for puddling about with.
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

  4. #4
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    Yes, definitely main sails from Graduate and Enterprise sailing dinghies. The numbers are the registration numbers with the various class associations, and, as Chris B rightly says, the number goes with the boat. That number could even lead you back to the date the dinghy was first registered and even it's original owner - if anyone was that interested.

    Seeing sails like that was quite nostalgic - the first of those dinghies were plywood built, before stitch & glue was introduced and long before people felt the need to plaster everything with epoxy. I helped build some myself.

    Regards,
    Nick

  5. #5
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    You have then identified, and thry are pretty useless as so old BUT there is an organisation of which I am a member called the Classic and Vintage Dinghy Racing Association, CVRDA who have a Face book page exceedingly well organised.Some of their members are more interested in authenticity than performance. Try them first.,

  6. #6
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    Further to what the others have said. The spring clips are for a wire forestay as opposed to a furling sail.
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverbirch View Post
    Further to what the others have said. The spring clips are for a wire forestay as opposed to a furling sail.
    And those spring clips are called 'piston hanks'. More nostalgia!

    Nick

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick TQP View Post
    And those spring clips are called 'piston hanks'. More nostalgia!

    Nick
    I know they are. I am a sailmaker. I used the term because that's what he called them.
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverbirch View Post
    I know they are. I am a sailmaker. I used the term because that's what he called them.
    Hey, sorry if you thought I was being critical of your post. Just thought somebody might like to know what those spring clips are called.

    Regards,
    Nick

  10. #10
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    No worries
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  11. #11
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    I still sail a wooden Enterprise!!

    Andy
    The river flows, flows to the sea
    Wherever that river flows, that's where I want to be

  12. #12
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    On further inspection, what I had in my head as a mirror Jib sail, isn't. That was one I cut downI'm not really sure what this one is either. Don't have the measurements for it just now but the plastic clips might be fairly distinctive?







    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

  13. #13
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    First thoughts - its a blue jib - Enterprise?
    https://www.sailrite.com/Enterprise-Sail-Data gives the relevant dimensions
    This post may vanish at any moment.

  14. #14
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    The colour is Enterprise, the clips / hanks are very commonplace, but just to the eye the right hand corner looks high relative to the others for a racing sail. A cruising or storm enterprise sail?
    Impcanoe

  15. #15
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    The clew (the right hand corner) is indeed too high for an Enterprise, and it's a much darker blue than an Enterprise. The colour is unusual; it may be a 'traditional style' boat like a Drascombe (but not an actual Drascombe as their sails are always red). The clew would be high on a racing boat, but on a lower aspect rig with a more inclined forestay it would be lower, which also points to a trad replica.

  16. #16
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    There's more to puzzle over this one. I agree that the shape would suit a low aspect but what about the missing at the head but visible at the tack luff wire, and what looks like a stuff luff seam whilst having the pushy twisty hanks, and one of those not very strong plastic shackles. The stuff luff and hanks looks like belt and braces. How about a foresail for a cutter, or jib or even a flying jib or an all purpose, go anywhere sail on a cutter rigged ketch?? I think the owner should ask Tab

    Impcanoe

  17. #17
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    Unfortunately Tab appear to have closed a long time ago. I think I can see the top of the luff wire, behind the lashing, and I think it's just a way to fit the luff wire without sewing it in. It would allow for some (off the water) adjustment of the cloth tension. I do agree, foresail for a small cutter sounds right; from the paddle, I estimate the luff is 4.5m or maybe 5m, which would mean the head is about 3m above the deck, so the boat would be maybe 5m/6m overall? I don't think we're going to identify the design though!

  18. #18
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    The sail has been altered at some point. Stitch holes at head and tack. Tapes and eyelets put on afterwards so maybe
    Foot was relofted then?
    So we beat on,boats against the current,bourne back ceaselessly into the past.

  19. #19
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    Well spotted, silverbirch (the sailmaker's eye!). There are stitch holes at the ends of the luff sleeve as well, and new stitches over them, so it appears that the ends of the sleeve have been unstitched, cut back a few cm and restitched - my guess would be, by the original sailmaker. Maybe the sail originally had a soft luff with hanks, and has been converted to wired but the hanks left on just in case?

  20. #20
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    Thanks for all the interest, really appreciate it.

    The big blue one measurements are Leech: 4170mm (13' 8"), Luff: 3520mm (11' 6"), Foot: 1750mm (5' 9").
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

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