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Thread: Enlarged Bateau Cheap Canoe - and a question

  1. #1

    Default Enlarged Bateau Cheap Canoe - and a question

    I am a complete beginner to paddling open canoes and have had only a little experience decades ago in k*y*ks. Most of my boat experience is falling out of Laser dinghies. After a couple of years of lurking and a build that took much too long, I've at last completed a Bateau Cheap Canoe. It's gone from this:





    via this:





    to this:





    I increased all dimensions by 10%, which still keeps it on 2 sheets of plywood, but somehow the LOA is now 15', which is 12% longer! Anyway it works well as a tandem canoe or even two adults and a child.





    The problem for me comes when paddling in a straight line solo - the canoe slides sideways unless I heal over to dig a chine in - then it glides following the curve of the chine. The bottom is almost completely flat with a little rocker:




    I see a number of possible solutions in increasing order of complexity:



    1. Learn to paddle better
    2. Carry water ballast in 20 litre containers
    3. Fit a rib along the bottom where the keel would be (1/2" square hardwood moulding?)
    4. Fit a deeper keel like on the Storer Quick Canoe: https://www.duckworksbbs.com/product...ckcanoe-id.htm


    Any recommendations from the collective wisdom of SotP?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    How about a lee board?
    '...you can led a horse to water but a pencil must be lead...' Stan Laurel

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    623

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    Have you tried shifting your weight forward, so that the bow digs in a bit and grips the water? If that works, you may find it has a disadvantage in side wind, as it will make the boat turn into the wind more than with your weight central.

    Edit - from your post in the cars & canoes thread, and the oily mark from the canal, you haven't had it trimmed level - but I don't know from that photo which end was high?
    Last edited by Chris_B; 15th-June-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #4

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    In this case, I'd think a keel would be the most reasonable option.
    You mention that there is very little rocker. How much might there be? An inch? two inches?
    I'm presuming that the hull is symmetrical which would mean that if you were to leave the aft part of the keel slightly deeper and oriented aftwards (like a long extended skeg) you'd might just avoid a broach (in a following sea let's say) whilst aiding directional tracking.
    Have you got schematics of the rocker and waterlines? If so, perhaps I might offer a more informed opinion. In the absence of such, it's best to presume I'm an idiot ...
    Trevor Paetkau
    Ashes Still Water Boats
    Canoe Plans | Custom Boats

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Cumbria
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    I'd consider option 3 but maybe even more than one. Often referred to as "rubbing strips" or a keel strip, they are a reasonably common feature on wooden/canvas canoes.

    How wide is it? It looks pretty wide? Maybe pulling the sides in a bit would make it narrower and would reduce the rocker too which could improve tracking.

    I'm just thinking the likes of an old town discovery has an almost totally flat bottom (or even concave in many cases if they've been left stacked up in the sun for a long time) so the flatness of the bottom may not be the main issue.
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_B View Post
    Edit - from your post in the cars & canoes thread, and the oily mark from the canal, you haven't had it trimmed level - but I don't know from that photo which end was high?
    The bow was high, but that oily mark was mainly from being paddled 3-up with me at the back, Mrs Panda at the back and Panda Jnr in the middle, so it doesn't reflect the solo waterline. When solo and me kneeling, sitting on the aft thwart (0.5 m behind the centreline), the forefoot is clear of the water, so I shall try moving my weight forward as you suggest.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpaetkau View Post
    In this case, I'd think a keel would be the most reasonable option.
    You mention that there is very little rocker. How much might there be? An inch? two inches?
    I'm presuming that the hull is symmetrical which would mean that if you were to leave the aft part of the keel slightly deeper and oriented aftwards (like a long extended skeg) you'd might just avoid a broach (in a following sea let's say) whilst aiding directional tracking.
    Have you got schematics of the rocker and waterlines? If so, perhaps I might offer a more informed opinion. In the absence of such, it's best to presume I'm an idiot ...
    I make the rocker about 2 inches at each end - yes the hull is symmetrical (well it would have been if I'd been more careful about stitching it together!)

    Free drawings are here:
    https://bateau.com/cheapcanoe.php
    . I've just enlarged all linear dimensions by 10%, which just fitted on 8'x4' sheets. The website is inconsistent on the dimensions referring to it as either 13'5" or 14' long. Mine came out at 15' exactly, but altering the mid-point beam will affect the rocker and length I guess. The hull depth is a little shallow to take in rough water, so there won't be any following seas...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkwheel View Post
    I'd consider option 3 but maybe even more than one. Often referred to as "rubbing strips" or a keel strip, they are a reasonably common feature on wooden/canvas canoes.

    How wide is it? It looks pretty wide? Maybe pulling the sides in a bit would make it narrower and would reduce the rocker too which could improve tracking.

    I'm just thinking the likes of an old town discovery has an almost totally flat bottom (or even concave in many cases if they've been left stacked up in the sun for a long time) so the flatness of the bottom may not be the main issue.
    Beam at the gunwales is 80 cm, but only just over 60 cm at the bottom, so it's less than 70 cm at the waterline when normally loaded.

    Why is more than one strip on the bottom beneficial? For strength? If so how many? One keel strip and a short strip either side I guess, but with the hard chines, the only advantage of the outer strips would be so that it sits flat on the ground/trestles in the garage. Or what about just two, either side of the keel?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    623

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    When solo and me kneeling, sitting on the aft thwart (0.5 m behind the centreline), the forefoot is clear of the water, so I shall try moving my weight forward as you suggest
    .
    When paddling symmetrical canoes solo, it's quite normal to turn the boat backwards, so that you can sit nearer the centre. I would aim to start with it level and see how it goes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Cumbria
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    I was thinking three strips because that is something I have seen it done on boats before, particualrly small, flat-bottomed pirogue type ones and skin on frame boats. Effectively acting as a keel.

    It's not as wide as I thought it might be in the pictures.

    I suppose something else worth mentioning is that you state you're a beginner. Technique could be a factor? Maybe worth getting someone more experienced to have a go in it before you start modifying the boat itself? Getting a long-ish solo boat to go in a straight line can be frustrating when you first start out.
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

  11. #11

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    Hi panda hope u dont mind me asking im building the same canoe at the moment and seen u have increased the size iv already starting assembly and was wondering if i can add another set of side panels to increase the depth of the boat just buy a couple of inches keep me from going under the water lol

  12. #12

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    Hi Sirio - in theory, you could increase the depth of the canoe easily because the tops of the panels that make the sides are straight - the curve of the gunwales is achieved by the curve of the developed panel at the chine. However, I don't know how you would join the extra side panels on - I guess you would use glass fibre tape. The simplest thing to do would be to continue the line of the sides upwards, but a nice effect might be achieved by changing the angle of the top planks, even to include some tumblehome, but if you were to go to that extent, I would start afresh with something like a Selway Fisher Raven. I sort of regret not going for a more sophisticated canoe design as my first build - it really wasn't that hard.

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