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Thread: A new stitch and glue in progress..

  1. Default A new stitch and glue in progress..

    Seven and a half hours of work, in a workshop, on what must be the hottest day this year so far. And I've managed to transform 4 sheets of 4mm ply into ten weirdly shaped 16ft planks.
    I had saws, spoke shaves at the ready, planes on standby and yet... I cheated and used a jigsaw and an electric planer.
    Tomorrow the glass tape across the joints, then the drilling starts. Stitching to start one evening this week.
    It's beer o'clock now though!
    Last edited by Scattercat; 17th-June-2017 at 06:34 PM. Reason: struggling to get the photos

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    So how do you get photos to show?

  3. #3
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    Best to sign up to an external photo host (I use Imgur) then make links from this site to the pics on Imgur. It's very straightforward, even I managed it.
    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

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    Last edited by Scattercat; 17th-June-2017 at 07:02 PM. Reason: Photos?

  5. #5
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    Sounds like your enjoying yourself, looking forward to following your blog. Good luck with the build.

  6. #6
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    Hi, I'll be interested to follow your progress as I hope one day to build my own stitch and tape.

    You're most of the way to getting your pictures to appear.

    If you use the "Insert Picture " button on the toolbar (it's the one with the tree on it next to the filmstrip) a box appears. If you paste your URL link in there, the photo appears in your blog rather than just the link.

    Best of luck.
    There are three types of people in the world:
    Those who can count and those who can't.

  7. #7
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    Don't you need to stitch before you put the glass tape on?

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    All I've done so far is to butt joint the planks with epoxy fillet, apparently I'll need to reinforce the butt joints with glass tape. Once that has set, then all the holes ready for stitching.
    Well, I hope I'm doing this right!
    Where the blue tape is in the picture, will be glass tape.

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    Happy so far with the build (now named "Moose" because from a distance it can be mistaken for a gnu). Started stitching it together tonight but it got a bit warm so gave up... One thing I am having a problem with is... I'm using copper stitches and they are difficult to get a precise tension. The copper csa is 2.5mm. Maybe it's a bit too big?
    Next question (advice sought) is. The bottom pair of planks have quite a fine point at their ends. What do other people do to pull this part of the hull together prior to epoxying?
    And lastly. The plans get you to make two formers to be installed inside the hull to maintain correct shape. To my mind, if the measurements are accurate and the finished look of the canoe, symmetrically and aesthetically, seems ok. Do they need to be used?

  10. #10
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    Depends on how fast the epoxy goes off hard. If you have the planks set accurately and they stay that way, and you are using the fast acting hardener maybe not, but if using the slow hardener then definitely yes. The formers will hold the shape accurately until the epoxy goes off. You really don't want to have the hull relax a bit while the resin cures.

    Calefactio orbis? Culus meus!!

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    I'm lucky in that I've got epoxy by the score, slow and fast. Once it's all tied together I think I might monitor its movement throughout the day and then decide whether to epoxy the joints with or without formers.
    thanks for the reply, I'm very new to this canoe lark, pretty rubbish at woodwork too. At school when other kids were duplicating Chippendale furniture... I made a pencil box held together with 50 nails.

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    Moose is starting to look a bit like a gnu now. Loosely fitted copper wire ties and only two panels left to fit?

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The keel band is to the right of the canoe, should last a while!

  13. #13
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    Looking good. I would have suggested cable ties rather than copper wire, but I think you're beyond that stage now. Nice to have so much space to work in!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by cankay.org.uk View Post
    Looking good. I would have suggested cable ties rather than copper wire, but I think you're beyond that stage now. Nice to have so much space to work in!
    I would concur and use dowels to help align the planks,

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-wo...100-pack/1360t




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    Last two planks went in this evening. Then I spent some time getting the pointy ends to square up. Standing back and admiring my prickly canoe I realised that the rocker is wrong, as is the width. So formers are to be made and installed prior to epoxy fillets... that should keep me busy on Saturday.
    It's quite therapeutic this building lark. I'm working things out as I go, taking all the advice I can, and, thoroughly enjoying myself.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scattercat View Post
    Last two planks went in this evening. Then I spent some time getting the pointy ends to square up. Standing back and admiring my prickly canoe I realised that the rocker is wrong, as is the width. So formers are to be made and installed prior to epoxy fillets... that should keep me busy on Saturday.
    It's quite therapeutic this building lark. I'm working things out as I go, taking all the advice I can, and, thoroughly enjoying myself.
    Fantastic they are very satisfying boats to build, some pictures would be great


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  17. #17
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    To tension copper wires, put them through and put a loose twist in the ends, then hold the twisted ends with pliers, pull hard out and put a bit more twist in. Dead simple after the first few - the trick is to make sure you pull out hard. If you want them tighter, use a screwdriver on the inside to push the wire into the angle. This can also help line up the joints.

    Sam

  18. #18

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    Adding to my earlier post, dowels are the best 2.29 you will ever spend and pay for themselves ten fold in better alignment and therefore less filler and time. I filleted between the Epoxy then removed the ties and dowels which can be reused.

    http://epoxy-it.com/ss/using-dowels-...d-glue-panels/




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  19. #19

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    It's probably too late now, but in response to your question about how to align the planks, it's a long time since I did stitch and glue but the copper wire is the first step. Wire it all up, get the shape right and then do the epoxy fillets. Once set, remove the copper and finish the joints with glass tape. If the shape isn't right at the copper stage, adjust tension or even cut wire and start again. I see no point in wire once the fillets are in.

  20. #20
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    I like that dowel trick. I've not seen that before and looks like a good idea


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    Think I may have messed up..
    it was all going so well but I couldn't work out how to apply fillets between the stitches on the top planks. Once the stitches were tightened, I just seemed to have a flat, almost seamless, single plank with no visible corner or edge to fillet into. So I just taped and epoxied between the wires.
    Thinking about it now, have I cocked up? Have I reduced the strength of the canoe? If I have, how do I put it right?
    very worried at the moment. Haven't removed the stitches yet, the top two planks are the only ones that have been worked on. All the others have stitches which haven't been tensioned fully, I started at the top to try and get some integrity into the boat before I turned it over to start at the bottom.
    Help please.

  22. #22

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    If I remember right, the fillet is needed to fill the gap on the corners, so if the planks are in the same plane and there's no gap, you don't need a fillet. When wired up, you should have tight wire on the inside of the boat, and twisted ends on the outside. So go ahead and apply resin and glass tape on the inside, over the top of the tensioned wire - which will be flat against the wood. Once cured, clip off the wires on the outside and tape that. Where you have an angle between the planks, the wire cuts across the corner which makes taping harder (and it's impossible if you use the dowel idea), but in that situation you can rely on the fillet to hold it, so you can remove all the wire before taping.

    Hope that makes sense - it's based on having built a Mirror dinghy about 40 years ago!

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    Thanks for that reply, I feel a bit better now.


    ]

    Here's where I'm at. Three formers held in place with bailing twine and Spanish windlasses, and taped and glued top planks.
    Last edited by Scattercat; 25th-June-2017 at 11:08 AM. Reason: didnt post picture correctly

  24. #24

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    Have a look at the thread "pics of orca build as promised" in self build canoes section. They did very little stitching or filleting and it came out well.

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    Had a look and... seems to me there isn't a right or wrong way to build. As long as the integrity is there when you finish.
    One of the things I am considering is a keel band... question posed are, not wanting to do this in wood, I'm thinking aluminium, is this something that anyone else has done before and how?

  26. #26

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    Integrity and shape when finished are what matter. I note a bit of wavy curvature at the gunwales near the ends; I'd be tempted to fit the gunwales before locking up any more of the seams. I'd also think carefully about when to take out your formers; they shouldn't ideally be necessary, and they might result in a lumpy curve to the sides of the boat. I understand why you've put them in, but once you have some of the joints done, you may reach a point where it's better to let the planks take their natural curve.

    The traditional material for a keel band is brass. Aluminium does corrode but would probably work. The main concern I'd have is that with S&G construction there's no actual keel to screw it to. You'd either have to fit a false keel inside, or use bolts. Either way would potentially create a leak path. If you're worried about abrasion on the keel, I'd put an extra layer of glass tape along it.

  27. #27
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    What I do see there is a fair old gap between the centre form and the inside of the boat. If that form is supposed to be the cross section, you're a fair bit off. Of course you might have done this on purpose to get a more rounded bum on her?

    In any case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with drilling a few more holes and stitching the planks to the form. to hold it in place, you can use lolipop sticks to space it away a little if it looks like it's deforming the lines of the boat.


    Doesn't take a lot to hold it in shape. When I built mine, we used a dab of cyanoarcylate superglue on the outside seams every couple of inches (speeded up by spraying glue activator on it) to hold it in shape then took all the stitches out. It was perfectly possible to gently move the hull about then. That allowed us to lay in full-length fillets and tape over them while still wet. You can see the small dabs of superglue in this picture where we're laying the first fillet of thickened epoxy along the inside of the keel line.
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

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    There aren't any gaps between the centre former and the planks, I think what you're looking at is the extra bits of scrap wood I nailed to the ply I used as a former, they are purely there to keep the bottom of the former more stable whilst I tightened the Spanish windlasses. The fore and aft formers weren't made of two pieces of 4 mil ply so didn't require any added stability but I put them in anyway. (Probably overkill)
    The pointy bits of the canoe have definitely deformed somewhat, I'm putting it down to the weather. It's been too bloody hot, definitely think I'll be putting the inwale and outwale in, sooner rather than later.. ( make a mental note and order some ash, Steve!)
    How the hell did you manage to get the fillet so neat down the centreline of your canoe?
    What ingredient did you add to the epoxy?
    Bit late for me, but love the superglue approach

    once this one is done, afloat and enjoyed... I can see a second on the cards, I'm learning so much, loving the task, wanting to improve on what I have and the way I'm doing it... this is addictive!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scattercat View Post
    How the hell did you manage to get the fillet so neat down the centreline of your canoe?
    What ingredient did you add to the epoxy?
    It was applied onto the area using a plastic card then shaped using a combination of one corner of the card cut round and an old butter knife. A bit like applying grout to ceramic tiles or pointing a wall.

    It was thickened with a proprietary mix of microballoons and wood flour from the epoxy supplier but you can just use wood flour (or even, I believe, flour flour?). The actual thickness was a matter of feel, you probably want it drier than you'd imagine, if it gets a rough surface, you can always brush a little un-thickened epoxy on top to smooth it.

    We then laid the fibreglass tape over the top while it was still wet and scraped more epoxy sparingly over it to give a very smooth finish.

    I had a lot of help with mine, I built it on a course with an experienced canoe builder. I did do a detailed build blog with lots of pictures. maybe worth a look? It's not the only way of doing this kind of build but it worked well for us.
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...verwater-boats
    "I'm not getting in a boat which is DESIGNED to go upside down."

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    I only hope mine looks half as nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by stinkwheel View Post

    I had a lot of help with mine, I built it on a course with an experienced canoe builder. I did do a detailed build blog with lots of pictures. maybe worth a look? It's not the only way of doing this kind of build but it worked well for us.
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...verwater-boats

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    Managed to get some of the fillets in Moose today, haven't bothered with the pointy bits either end, just wanted to get some integrity into the middle bit. The fore and aft formers are now loose because they were putting too much pressure onto the planking, bits of string maintain a somewhat canoe shape, and there are a mixture of tools left in between the fillets to try and keep the bottom planks in a nicer position.
    This weeks work will be to finish the fillets, remove the wires and tape the inside.

    [IMG]

    The sticks either sticking up at the ends are to stop the canoe rolling over. It's also tied down.
    There appears to be quite a wobble to the upper side panels, but they did pull back into shape when I introduced a temporary gunnel, so I'm happy that at this stage I can continue without a gunnel in situ

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