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Thread: Have things started to change?

  1. #1

    Default Have things started to change?

    A few weeks ago I led a group down the Kennet river near Newbury where the access is disputed. About halfway we came across an angler, who as we approached lifted his line. I asked him which side he would like us to pass, & he said he had no preference as the fish take no notice of us or our boats. We had a short chat & wished each other a good day. About 100 yards further on we met another angler who was about to cast, but he waited. I asked him which side he would prefer us to pass & he said "The water is deeper on the far side", so I asked which would have least effect on his angling, to which he replied "Despite what some anglers will say you & your boats do not make the slightest difference to the fish". We exchanged pleasantries & continued.

  2. #2
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    Nice one.

    I've paddle the Kennet a few times, mostly with no problems. I did once have one bloke go completely apoplectic just at the site of me from 100m, even though I was not even intending to paddle up past him as the flow was strong, just briefly nosing into the stream off the navigation.

    I do believe though, that there is slightly less anti-paddler aggression in my part of the world, i.e. Southeast England, than there was even 5 years ago.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  3. #3
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    Sounds like a good change. Maybe there's more cross-over of the sports than some people would have us believe. Reminds me, I need to go fishing again.

  4. #4
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    Yes, I think things are changing. The evidence of public navigation rights is much more widely known than in the past. Reasonable, considerate behaviour by canoeists results in reasonable, considerate behaviour by most sensible anglers leaving a few diehards increasingly isolated.
    Keith

  5. #5
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    Shall let you know when I go down St Patrick's Stream next week, never had any problem in the past.

    I agree with Mal, the South East is used to the mix.
    You don't stop playing because you are old, you get old because you stop playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marker View Post
    Shall let you know when I go down St Patrick's Stream next week, never had any problem in the past.

    I agree with Mal, the South East is used to the mix.

    Never had a problem on St Patrick's anyway, boats have always been known to be allowed there, and I've often had friendly chats and thanks for asking which side to pass. Just try to be aware of the fishermen as they're particularly good at hiding behind trees and undergrowth down there! Particularly between the bridge and the houses before the Loddon.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  7. #7
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    The recent blog "Wotta Lotta Otta" followed a two day trip down the Welsh Dee from near Bala to LLangollen. On the Saturday we met several anglers, in all instances we asked how they would prefer us to pass, some indicated a preference, others didn't mind but without exception all were pleasant and friendly and we had a good banter with all of them. There was a distinct sense that we were sharing the resource on an equal footing. This compares with a trip last year from below Llangollen to Bangor on Dee. On that trip the response varied from friendly understanding through sullen disregard to apoplectic madness, approximately half were on the positive side. A very unscientific comparison I know but the recent trip was far more pleasant with regard to encounters with anglers.
    Mike

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    I think as well as the anglers realising that we are not going to destroy their sport the other difference is that Fish Legal have not been stirring the water for a while. This shows quite clearly that Fish Legal and a few other cobbled together organisations were causing most of the trouble, the anglers and paddlers themselves have shown they can work together if left alone.

    A bit like life in general really, would the various religious groups around the world be as keen on killing each other if it wasn't for their leaders stirring them up? I don't think so.
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

  9. #9
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    I've done three trips on the Dee this year, encountered a fair number of fishermen, all very pleasant . Of course we were too.

    Impcanoe

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impcanoe View Post
    I've done three trips on the Dee this year, encountered a fair number of fishermen, all very pleasant . Of course we were too.

    Impcanoe
    Paddled the welsh Dee from Llangollen down the other week.

    Within minutes of launching i was being told that I could not paddle, being asked to come over so the person could explain it to me etc, and when I declined they said they would meet me at the country park.

    Through the rest of corwen and district / maelor fishing area, most were pleasant but had photgraphs taken by about 4 groups and another 2 groups questioned right to be there.

    Once past the corwen and district reach all the fisherfolk were really pleasant, no photos etc.

    Things have definitely improved, but i don't think the "agreement" on the Dee has helped below Llangollen

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    Unfortunately there is no improvement in South Wales. Abuse on the valley's rivers is as bad as ever.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A View Post
    Things have definitely improved, but i don't think the "agreement" on the Dee has helped below Llangollen
    Just point out to them that the "agreement" is only binding on the persons who signed it, if they are saying it is binding on the general public that is a fraudulent act.

    Copied from the SFO website, http://www.sfo.gov.uk/fraud/what-is-fraud.aspx

    What is fraud?Fraud is a type of criminal activity, defined as:
    'abuse of position, or false representation, or prejudicing someone's rights for personal gain'.
    Put simply, fraud is an act of deception intended for personal gain or to cause a loss to another party.
    The general criminal offence of fraud can include:

    • deception whereby someone knowingly makes false representation
    • or they fail to disclose information
    • or they abuse a position.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-August-2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: fix quote
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

  13. #13
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    I paddled the stainforth to keadby canal earlier this year and came across a fishing match with about 15 anglers all hell bent on emptying the canal and each other's wallets.
    we were polite and again drifted through with as little disturbance as possible and everyone of them were polite and friendly in return
    Canada 2011, Wales 2012, France 2013, Ireland 2014, Scotland 2015 England (Thames) 2016 - ( Thames again 2017)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_t View Post
    A few weeks ago I led a group down the Kennet river near Newbury where the access is disputed. About halfway we came across an angler, who as we approached lifted his line. I asked him which side he would like us to pass, & he said he had no preference as the fish take no notice of us or our boats. We had a short chat & wished each other a good day. About 100 yards further on we met another angler who was about to cast, but he waited. I asked him which side he would prefer us to pass & he said "The water is deeper on the far side", so I asked which would have least effect on his angling, to which he replied "Despite what some anglers will say you & your boats do not make the slightest difference to the fish". We exchanged pleasantries & continued.
    Nice to hear that there was such a positive change in attitudes between July and August this year . There are still a few die hard opinions floating in Kennet eddies - http://forum.rdaa.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3823 - and there are still those that understand the strength of an 'opinion' reinforced by unchallenged repetition.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    There are still a few die hard opinions floating in Kennet eddies - http://forum.rdaa.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3823 - and there are still those that understand the strength of an 'opinion' reinforced by unchallenged repetition.
    There are some interesting comments on the "rdaa" site, as they are fishing the "Benyons" it is not surprising that they are at the other end of the spectrum regarding access issues. One interesting point they make is that they are more concerned about the bad behaviour of some of the canoeist rather than the fact that they are actually on the river, on that point I have to agree with them.
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

  16. #16
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    The law regarding the "backwaters" of the River Kennet is totally clear and not dependent on the arguments for a general PRN on all rivers.

    The 1715 Kennet Navigation Act includes the express declaration:-

    It is also hereby further Enacted and declared by the Authority aforesaid that the said River Kennett is and forever hereafter shall be esteemed and taken to be Navigable from the said Wharfe or Common Landing place at Reading aforesaid to the Town of Newbury aforesaid and that all the Kings Leige people whatsoever may have and Lawfully enjoy their free passage in along through and upon the said River Kennett from the River of Thames to the town of Newbury .. with Boats Barges Lighters and other vessels and have and enjoy all necessary and convenient Libertys for Navigating the same without any obstruction whatsoever paying such Rates and Dutys as have been usually paid to the Owners of Occupyers of any Locks Turnpikes or other Engines.
    This declaration clearly refers to the River (not the canal sections, which although contemplated by the Act were not built until some time later) and raises the Common Law public right of navigation to statutory right for the section of river specified. The reference to "such Rates and Dutys as have been usually paid to the Owners of Occupyers of any Locks Turnpikes or other Engines." clearly demonstrates prior navigation.
    Keith

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