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Thread: I've got back into airgunning...

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    Default I've got back into airgunning...

    In times past I was into field target shooting or 'FT'.. I sold all my fancy shooting gear to buy a mountain bike.. That was about 1992.. I've not had an airgun since. I've missed it ... So I recently got hold of a good old 1993 Weihrauch HW 77k in .22 .. I used to have a .177 years ago..

    Here I am back down the gun club.. Getting some practice in.. I'm enjoying the challenge of shooting this springer rifle in this calibre...

    Bunnies beware!

    Here she is... Shoots a dream...







    Here's me grovelling on my knees... Getting to grips with a 40yd target... Got it.. This was on a 'hunting field target' course.. Where you can shoot recreating hunting stances using leaning posts ,trees etc.. But your not aloud to sit down and you must be touching the post with your body or gun.. The position I'm in here was a bit tongue in cheek! Trying to exploit the rules avoiding an unrested shot..



    Some scope zeroing being done...




    The clubs a great place.. A great crowd.. Just like the old days....

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    airgunning brings back a few memories for me. spent a few years of my youth working on a local dairy farm, mucking out, learning the milking, hay bailing and lets not forget how cool driving a tractor is when your 13.
    The best part of this time though was being allowed to take out the rat's with my webley Omega .22 which although was priced similar to the HW77 and HW80 was obviously far superior because i bought one!

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    .. A Webely Omega.. To be honest I can't remember the gun.. Priced the same as the 77 & 80 it must of been at the high end of air rifles.. My neighbour has hens... Therefore the odd ratty...

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    I was in Trago last weekend and I very nearly went over to the sports section and bought one. But the truth be told I already have too many hobbies and interests. Besides which, I have no idea what's good or bad, and the 22 vs 177 thing leaves me confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhofmann View Post
    I was in Trago last weekend and I very nearly went over to the sports section and bought one. But the truth be told I already have too many hobbies and interests. Besides which, I have no idea what's good or bad, and the 22 vs 177 thing leaves me confused.
    Basically .22 to kill things, .177 for target.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Brings back memories of when my wife and I were into falconry. I used to shoot bunnies with a BSA superstar .22 (which I had fitted with a square section spring) to feed the hawks in the summer (when they were moulting and not being flown). I used promethius stainless pellets to reduce any chance of lead poisoning. I became a very good shot, basically because I only had one shot and the bunnies ran off, so it had to count. After a few seasons I found it very boring and went over to using ferrets, and then using a "long net" at night, that really was a coney catcher - one good setting and the freezer was full.

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    Nice, I still have my HW35 and it still gets outings for feral pigeons in barns at night as they make such a mess and spoil a lot of grain. I would feel a bit nervous of an UL rifle as there is always the fear of losing your fingertips reloading.

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    GrahamC

    I used to paddle and ski with Terry Large, who is in your area and has been active in Falconry for many years. Have you come across him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impcanoe View Post
    GrahamC

    I used to paddle and ski with Terry Large, who is in your area and has been active in Falconry for many years. Have you come across him?
    Yes, there is a name from the past! When we moved North in 2000 we scaled back the hawking and, in the end, passed the hawks to friends. Most falconry takes place in the winter and in daylight. The birds need to fly every day to keep them fit and when I got a proper job, and kids, there wasn't time to do it properly. Sometimes I miss it, running through the woods on a misty morning with a Harris' hawk following-on ready to catch a rabbit was great; but not going on holiday, gutting 200 quail in a morning and pressure washing aviaries - I don't miss!
    Most flaconry take

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    Basically .22 to kill things, .177 for target.
    I am not sure it's a simple as that, at 12ft lb a .22 certainly carries more energy but the greater curve on the trajectory makes it more difficult to be accurate. The most important aspect of any shooting is to be accurate. To be accurate with a springer is an art-form in its self, to do it with a .22 springer takes a lot more skill, great if you can do it but for most people a .177 will be more effective. I have a 12ft lb AA S410 .177 PCP which is incredibly accurate, I tried an AA Pro Sport for a week first but could not get the level of accuracy I was happy with, so I have to admit I took the easy option and went for the PCP. Whilst saying all that a .22 FAC 20ft lb+ is perfect for hunting with it's flatter trajectory plus the higher energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    I am not sure it's a simple as that, at 12ft lb a .22 certainly carries more energy but the greater curve on the trajectory makes it more difficult to be accurate. The most important aspect of any shooting is to be accurate. To be accurate with a springer is an art-form in its self, to do it with a .22 springer takes a lot more skill, great if you can do it but for most people a .177 will be more effective. I have a 12ft lb AA S410 .177 PCP which is incredibly accurate, I tried an AA Pro Sport for a week first but could not get the level of accuracy I was happy with, so I have to admit I took the easy option and went for the PCP. Whilst saying all that a .22 FAC 20ft lb+ is perfect for hunting with it's flatter trajectory plus the higher energy.
    When I used to hunt, I was led to believe the .22 was a better (kinder?) kill as the energy was deposited within the target rather than the .177 which was more likely to pass right through, still carrying significant energy. Although, just once, I got my ducks (rabbits) in a row and scored a double head shot with the .22.

    As cloudman says though, with live targets accuracy is everything. I hate seeing people just "take pot shots". If you are going to take a life then do it properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    I am not sure it's a simple as that, at 12ft lb a .22 certainly carries more energy but the greater curve on the trajectory makes it more difficult to be accurate. The most important aspect of any shooting is to be accurate. To be accurate with a springer is an art-form in its self, to do it with a .22 springer takes a lot more skill, great if you can do it but for most people a .177 will be more effective. I have a 12ft lb AA S410 .177 PCP which is incredibly accurate, I tried an AA Pro Sport for a week first but could not get the level of accuracy I was happy with, so I have to admit I took the easy option and went for the PCP. Whilst saying all that a .22 FAC 20ft lb+ is perfect for hunting with it's flatter trajectory plus the higher energy.
    Sorry Bhofman - I knew trying to make it un-confusing wasn't going to work
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    Sorry Bhofman - I knew trying to make it un-confusing wasn't going to work
    Come on! what else did you expect.
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    I have a similar gun HW97 in .22.......the accuracy is amazing........for a springer. I used to have a precharge BSA scorpion multishot but the build quality was appaling so got rid. Also I found I was being more wasteful with shots as it was multishot. With a springer you get one shot so tend to be more careful.
    Used mostly to keep my dads allotment free of rats. Front end heavy though being under lever.
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    Just noticed TB that you have a strap on yours.............do you have a pic that shows how you've secured it at the barrel end?
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    The calibre argument rages on pretty much on every airgun forum and there's never been a conclusion to my knowledge. Whichever you're happiest shooting and have the most confidence in is about as close as I've seen to anything definitive.

    Plenty of practice, familiarity with your airgun and the way it shoots coupled with a detailed knowledge of the anatomy of your quarry is far more important (IMHO) than choice of calibre. A fine fellow called Richard Middleton (author of The Practical Guide to Man Powered Bullets, which is hilarious and well worth a read if you can find a copy) stated that you need approx 2lbft of impact energy to kill a rabbit. I don't know how accurate that is but suffice to say pretty much every 'full power' non FAC airguns in the UK will be carrying more energy than that, regardless of calibre, at ranges where you'd barely be able to see a rabbit, let alone hit one with certainty. Not knowing where the kill zones are from any direction and not knowing when to not take a shot will lead to a high of wound to kill ratio which isn't good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ounce View Post
    The calibre argument rages on pretty much on every airgun forum and there's never been a conclusion to my knowledge. Whichever you're happiest shooting and have the most confidence in is about as close as I've seen to anything definitive.

    Plenty of practice, familiarity with your airgun and the way it shoots coupled with a detailed knowledge of the anatomy of your quarry is far more important (IMHO) than choice of calibre. A fine fellow called Richard Middleton (author of The Practical Guide to Man Powered Bullets, which is hilarious and well worth a read if you can find a copy) stated that you need approx 2lbft of impact energy to kill a rabbit. I don't know how accurate that is but suffice to say pretty much every 'full power' non FAC airguns in the UK will be carrying more energy than that, regardless of calibre, at ranges where you'd barely be able to see a rabbit, let alone hit one with certainty. Not knowing where the kill zones are from any direction and not knowing when to not take a shot will lead to a high of wound to kill ratio which isn't good.
    Spot on. can't argue with any of that.
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    Modern FT kit is quite unlike the rifles of my youth.


    But shockingly accurate.
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    Weihrauch do make pretty looking rifles. I've had a HW95K (in .22) for years now, and it's a lovely gun - very smooth and consistent (even with me using it).



    (The vet-wrap is to help with grip, to cut down on the glare from the glossy surfaces, and to give the barrel some protection from fine-scratches in amongst the bushes).

    I've also got a mid-80's BSA Airsporter (MKIII, or MKVI), but that's err, a bit less consistent to shoot, (only really happy using 5.52m 'match' pellets).

    I only shoot inanimate targets of one sort or another, so .177 might have been a more sensible bet, but I think I ended up with .22 as that's what was in stock on the day I bought my rifle.

    That said ... 90% of my target shooting is done with a bow anyway, and whilst adding .22LR and shooting longer distance is on the cards somewhere off into the future, I'll need to do something novel with the flow of time to actually pull it off.

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    Hi guys ... I've just got in from a 24hr work stint and then down the range with the club guys... Such a chilled atmosphere .. Just what I needed. Without sprking a .22/.177 debate (boring) .22 is more a trad hunting calibre and yes .177 is slightly more 'accurate' regards flatter trajectory etc...

    These days an awful lot of hunters are using .177. To great effect.. Kills a precise and results are just as clean a kill..

    All non fac air weapons should not be used over 30yds for hunting regardless of calibre..

    Bren.. Here's my sling things...http://www.solware.co.uk/air-pistol-...-Swivels.shtml

    Sleeve the barrel/lever with some packing or it will scratch the barrel.. I use the cardboard the thing came in!

    I shot a new HW 97 today in .177.. And the owner shot my gun (a FT champion and air weapon freak) .. We both agreed .. I have a gem of a rifle.. Smooth and a joy to shoot.. I must dash will catch up with you guys later.. Glad to see so many talking air rifles..

    Like your gun Monkey Pork... A classic..
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 7th-February-2015 at 06:38 PM.

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    Bren.. This is the sling swivel... For a HW 97 you should require a 14.5mm but please check.




    Cloudman... You have an Air Arms , I had one too. An SM100 a pcp in .177 tricked for target shooting with a big Simmons scope.

    There used to be mainly Air Arms at the club as they guy who helps design them is a founding member. He goes to the club most Saturday's doesn't shoot much but loves playing with the knives...and things bushcrafty.. He also makes bows , they are stunning. He's a fountain of knowledge and an incredibly decent chap.. And he's a paddler!! Kayak though..but I will educate him!

    The idea of me going back to the club is to be as good as shot as I possibly can.. I owe it to the bunnies. I take that bit very seriously.
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 8th-February-2015 at 08:01 AM.

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    Thanks TB............much appreciated
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teign Beaver View Post
    Cloudman... You have an Air Arms , I had one too. An SM100 a pcp in .177 tricked for target shooting with a big Simmons scope.

    I have to admit that I had not heard of a SM100 before, I looked it up on youtube and I like the looks of it, there are not many for sale so it's either rare or people just want to hang onto them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    I have to admit that I had not heard of a SM100 before, I looked it up on youtube and I like the looks of it, there are not many for sale so it's either rare or people just want to hang onto them.
    Thanks for mentioning the YouTube clip..brings back memories.. Yes I think they're rare.. Love to know where mine is now.. If I had the serial number I probably could find it!

    I did like the precision and quality of the sm but this 77k I have has got soul ! It's alive and a challenge.. If you told me I'd have a 22 springer I would of laughed in your face! Loads of pcp shooters are getting back into springers now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Teign Beaver View Post

    I did like the precision and quality of the sm but this 77k I have has got soul ! It's alive and a challenge.. If you told me I'd have a 22 springer I would of laughed in your face! Loads of pcp shooters are getting back into springers now.
    I can understand that, PCP's are relatively easy to shoot accurately whereas a Springer takes a lot more skill and a feel for the gun. I think the extra accuracy of a PCP is preferable for pest control but on targets anything goes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    I can understand that, PCP's are relatively easy to shoot accurately whereas a Springer takes a lot more skill and a feel for the gun. I think the extra accuracy of a PCP is preferable for pest control but on targets anything goes.
    Agree..the pcp is the best tool for the job... But I'm getting fairly confident of my shooting skills with this springer.. The elevation compensation up to 35yards is not as bad as I thought.. Saying that I'm getting the gun chrono'd tommorw I've a nasty feeling it may be pumping out a couple of extra lbs .. If it is its immediately back to the shop for a de-tune. I've a feeling it's been fettled as it is so bloody nice.. Gun shop assured me it was sub 12ftlb when I got it.

    The whack it delivers up to 35 yards is quite something. I've been practising standing every day on the range and on my 28yards at home, testing different pellets.. I never realised a 22 springer could be so pellet fussy! Mind you I've never seriously shot a proper .22 like this 77.

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    I used to "wash" my lead pellets and then lightly lube them, the idea was to improve accuracy by making the pellet more reproducible. That was 20 years ago and pellets may have got better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamC View Post
    I used to "wash" my lead pellets and then lightly lube them, the idea was to improve accuracy by making the pellet more reproducible. That was 20 years ago and pellets may have got better.
    Pellet quality is fantastic now..if you pay..most are waxed now for you! The finish on the pellets I've got recently is very good

    You don't want to know what I used to do to my FT .177 pellets... Wash... Sieve them to deburr ie gently roll in a sieve ... Hair dry them..
    Then (the sad ocd bit) get a Bic ballpen sleeve. Mark an inch section in middle of sleeve. Drop a pellet down the end and tap it once on the table with light pressure. If the pellet dropped below the bottom line they went in the small tin. Above the top line ...into the big tin.
    The pellets in the mid section were inspected for damage .. Accuracy Plus spray applied (a wax coating that doesn't diesel ) ..Each pellet was stored in foam pockets separately ...ready for a FT competition.. Zzzzzzzzzzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teign Beaver View Post
    Pellet quality is fantastic now..if you pay..most are waxed now for you! The finish on the pellets I've got recently is very good

    You don't want to know what I used to do to my FT .177 pellets... Wash... Sieve them to deburr ie gently roll in a sieve ... Hair dry them..
    Then (the sad ocd bit) get a Bic ballpen sleeve. Mark an inch section in middle of sleeve. Drop a pellet down the end and tap it once on the table with light pressure. If the pellet dropped below the bottom line they went in the small tin. Above the top line ...into the big tin.
    The pellets in the mid section were inspected for damage .. Accuracy Plus spray applied (a wax coating that doesn't diesel ) ..Each pellet was stored in foam pockets separately ...ready for a FT competition.. Zzzzzzzzzzz
    I know a guy who has a set of very fine scales (the ones the drugies use!!) and weighs each pellet before a match, putting them in groups depending on weight, plus similar prep to yours above. He never wins anything but he enjoys himself, some people are naturals others just don't have the eye for it!.

    My farther was a brilliant natural shot, during the war because he was in a reserved occupation he joined the Home Guard. They were finally issued with rifles and were taken to Bisley for training on the firing range, dad was like a kid in a sweet shop loving every minute and was putting in some very good scores. After a while his Captain a good mate of his came running over to drag him to one side, apparently his shooting had come to the notice of the officers in charge. His Captain said what the bloody hell are you playing at, dad said I thought I was doing quite well, he replied yes too bloody well, if you carry on like that reserve occupation or not you will end up as a sniper, and those lads don't come back! Start missing! He did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teign Beaver View Post
    ...... Saying that I'm getting the gun chrono'd tommorw I've a nasty feeling it may be pumping out a couple of extra lbs .. If it is its immediately back to the shop for a de-tune. I've a feeling it's been fettled as it is so bloody nice.. Gun shop assured me it was sub 12ftlb when I got it.
    .....
    I'd be nervous of taking a gun in to be chrono'd - there are a number of potential pitfalls.

    It's well worth owning a combro so that you can check for yourself.
    http://www.chronoscopes.com/

    Vital for getting the best from a pcp - especially with a non-regulated pcp.
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    Hi, Any local clubs close by to you, you could go down and ask if theyd do it, we have the chrono the police use at our club, but If it's running hot or that close to 12lbs they get told to put it back in there car and get it sorted before coming back with it.
    It's a great hobby, I only do the plinking but we do HFT and FT as well.

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    Wondering if this is overkill for my slight rat problem ...

    DCUK
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    Not if they are this big


    even the rats are hard up north
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougR View Post
    I'd be nervous of taking a gun in to be chrono'd - there are a number of potential pitfalls.

    It's well worth owning a combro so that you can check for yourself.
    http://www.chronoscopes.com/

    Vital for getting the best from a pcp - especially with a non-regulated pcp.
    Yes Doug ... I think if I take a gun into a shop and it's found to be over the limit technically the are obliged to contact the police if not a FAC holder..I'm in possession of a fire arm! You would of course have to leave the gun with them for a de-tune.. Better that than having plod cut your barrel off and possibly doing a stretch!

    The shop where I got the gun assured me it was sub 12ftlb, they have to check all air weapons before sale...so I could go back to them..they shouldn't charge me for any work if required.. They are decent folks..glad of my business and friendly .

    I nearly got a chrono back along for my pcp... As it was a simple screw turn to pump it up to illegal! But I was always down the club so could check the rifle there.

    Andy... I'm in an airgun club.. One of the fellow members there is an advisor to Devon and Cornwall police regards air weapons! So I think I've got my arse covered Sound advice for folks ..thanks.

    Mike... Are they your guns??! I know you have a springer..

    GIANT RATS I think we're gonna need a bigger gun Bren...or a Bren gun
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 9th-February-2015 at 06:14 AM.

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    I used to do a lot of rabbiting on the farm where I worked I had a Logun fx solo .177 I was tempted to join a club and was asked by a couple if I'd like to pop along but wasn't sure the target thing was me.
    I have just bought a hunting catapult so that's my current challenge maybe I'll drift back to an air gun one day.

    dave
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    lol at potty, bit like cakes, you can't stop at one, 5 rifles and 2 pistols

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbDave View Post
    I have just bought a hunting catapult so that's my current challenge maybe I'll drift back to an air gun one day.
    I don't know if you have seen this video of an American Old Timer with his simple Y branch slingshot, if you can get half as good as him you won't need to go back to an air gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0

    And if you fancy building some really special slingshots this guy is totally obsessed, but very interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrd_QXxOEWQ
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    I had the old Milbro catapult... We got pretty good with them... The power of a 5/8 oz lead ball fishing weight was scary... Marbles were another favorite ... We had a war once with unripe gooseberrys...ouch! Them little Milbros are 21 quid now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    I know a guy who has a set of very fine scales (the ones the drugies use!!) and weighs each pellet before a match, putting them in groups depending on weight, plus similar prep to yours above. He never wins anything but he enjoys himself, some people are naturals others just don't have the eye for it!.
    I do something similar but for my cf ammunition. Polished brass, bullets examined, scales set up and no-one allowed to enter while I am weighing...I need to get out more

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    This is a bit off subject but it's still shooting, I don't know how many of you have heard of the UK's most prolific World Champion, George Digweed MBE. His record includes 23 World Championships, 18 European Championships and 16 World Cups in clay pigeon shooting, and I believe he is the first sportsman to do it spanning four decades. The video link below shows him breaking the World record longest Clay Shot of 130yds.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k
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    That's phenomenal shooting ..God knows how high he had to aim above the clay??


    While we're on this subject ... (Like the music on this one)



    I believe that's a punt gun at the end... I heard of one bagging 166 plover....with one shot!

    watching that again... No that's too big for a punt gun! Think it came of the Bismark!
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 11th-February-2015 at 05:11 PM.

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    I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear Tom Knapp say "THEY'RE GRRRRRRREEAT!"
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    That's pretty fine shootin partner.


    It does go to show what a lethal weapon an auto shotgun can be, you can see why we are restricted to 3 shots only!!
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    That's pretty fine shootin partner.


    It does go to show what a lethal weapon an auto shotgun can be, you can see why we are restricted to 3 shots only!!
    Meanwhile in Mother Russia ...imagine turning up to shoot in a lowered blinged Range Rover and oofing one of these babies out...

    [EDIT: Ounce - Please note: Some language in the linked video is not suitable for work or children]
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8

    Im imagining piles of dead beaters and springers... :/
    Last edited by Ounce; 11th-February-2015 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Adding language warning

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    When we were kids we used to put a few drops of model aeroplane engine diesel fuel into the back of the pellet before cocking the spring. This would fill the chamber with the fuel gas, then when it was fired, compression-ignition. It must be illegal and probably was then, but hey! Who cared at that age? It didn't do the springs and washers any good either.

    lu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teign Beaver View Post
    Meanwhile in Mother Russia ...imagine turning up to shoot in a lowered blinged Range Rover and oofing one of these babies out...
    [EDIT: Ounce - Please note: Some language in the linked video is not suitable for work or children]
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8

    Im imagining piles of dead beaters and springers... :/
    The bit I loved was his warning "Don't try this at home I am a professional Russian" it says it all !!!!!

    I managed to handle an AK47 at the Army Museum in Monmouth, I was surprised at how light it was and how well it handled. The guide an ex soldier partly stripped it down to show how simple it was and demonstrate it's main advantage, that being it's ability to keep working even if poorly serviced or full of water. It looks as if the AA-12 has the same design principals.
    Last edited by Ounce; 11th-February-2015 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Adding language warning
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bbug View Post
    When we were kids we used to put a few drops of model aeroplane engine diesel fuel into the back of the pellet before cocking the spring. This would fill the chamber with the fuel gas, then when it was fired, compression-ignition. It must be illegal and probably was then, but hey! Who cared at that age? It didn't do the springs and washers any good either.

    lu
    ...Yes it destroys your gun! I did it!

    I'm getting this 'dieseling' from some pellets called Accupells. Most quality manufactures coat the pellet in a lubricant which is meant to be non combustable
    ..I've been doing pellet testing as some are more suitable than others in a specific gun.

    When I shot these Accupells I could smell burnt oil! But the other two brands tested didn't .. The accuracy of these Accupells was shockingly bad! The two other grouped 5 pellets in a tight group at 30yds.

    Here's the grouping... Accupells in middle.. (The coins denote the group size as a reference..the tenner was for a laugh) target on right is a group at 50yds! I wasn't trying to hit the middle just aiming at a specific point to get the grouping.. Was pleased with that! H&N field target pellets...





    Cloudman... "You'll never get to heaven with a AK47"

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    Good shooting at 30yds TB - I doubt the lack of grouping with the Accupels is down to dieseling of the lube on the pellets, it's much more likely to be due to the fit of the pellet in the barrel. I usually shoot an HW35, in fact I have two an old (really old) one and a '90s variant. Accupels group at 12yds like a 410. H&N Baracuda match or Bisley mags and some old RWS Field all group perfectly, but the Accupels group nicely through my Air Arm's sidelever. The 35 is not a high power rifle... typically between 10 and 11 lbft and, the last time it was chono'd the AA was about 11 and a half with the accupels. I'd be surprised if either of my '35s were capable of more than 11 and with a lower compression behind it I'd be surprised if either of the 35s were capable of compression ignition of the small amount of lube that the Khamsin wasn't. Accupels in either of the 35s seem considerably looser in the breech than the H&N, BisMag or RWS - difficult to tell with the Khamsin as it's a smooth loading tap before the barrel proper.

    Suffice to say, any rifle is going to have a pellet type with which it disagrees, chances are good that your 77 and my 35s just don't like Accupels.
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    There was distinct smell of dieseling... and the 'grouping' is high^^ consistant with deiseling. It doesn't seem possible that such a small amount of oil could do this?? So you maybe right regards sizing.

    I'm going to wash the Accupells and repeat test. But it's academic.. The lovely looking H&N's are the best... Superdomes coming second. I didn't realise a 22 springer could be so pellet fussy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by andycw View Post
    lol at potty, bit like cakes, you can't stop at one, 5 rifles and 2 pistols
    ... then add in spring rifles, kks, canoes ... ... ...
    DCUK
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    TB. I agree with your liking of H&N pellets my favorites are Field Target Trophy, they have the edge on the next best for my gun the AA Diabolo Field. For pest control H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme are very effective.

    My invite to heaven was cancelled a long time ago, the heating bills are less in the other place anyway.

    PP. Would your Mr's agree with the saying "Boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive". It's interesting how many of us have similar toy box contents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    ... "Boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive".
    .... Oh yes!!! ... and I've a chronograph ... and the output of a specific rifle varies depending on the pellets used with it ... so having a chronograph to ensure you stay legal makes sense. Would I have a PCP rifle if I wasn't previously a diver ... probably not ... but I had this dive cylinder sitting around doing nothing ....
    DCUK
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    [QUOTE=cloudman;569889
    "Boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive". It's interesting how many of us have similar toy box contents.[/QUOTE]

    Second that! .....Kite buggy mountain bike fishing yak surfboards and on and on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potty Paddler View Post
    .... Oh yes!!! ... and I've a chronograph ... and the output of a specific rifle varies depending on the pellets used with it ... so having a chronograph to ensure you stay legal makes sense.
    Has anyone heard of someone being prosecuted for having a gun that has drifted over the limit, if they have tweaked it intentionally then fair enough but I would have hoped that common sense would prevail if it was only just over and had not been tampered with. If a gun shows over the limit on one specific pellet but is below on others does that make it an illegal gun?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    Has anyone heard of someone being prosecuted for having a gun that has drifted over the limit, if they have tweaked it intentionally then fair enough but I would have hoped that common sense would prevail if it was only just over and had not been tampered with. If a gun shows over the limit on one specific pellet but is below on others does that make it an illegal gun?
    I don't know anyone who has had their collar felt... My mates can run fast... JOKE!

    The police balistics lab only have to have one shot over the limit and the gun is proved 'capable' of being over the limit and require a f.a.c. !

    So they could chrono three shots under 12ftlb ie 11 - 11.5ftlb then one pellet @ 12.5 (which is perfectly feasible) and your nicked ! Daft ain't it .. It could deisel ! I would hope they would consider omitting a deiseled shot..but if it kept on doing it... They cut yer barrel off and you could do stir!

    Some light reading ...

    http://www.forensicfirearmsconsultan...-get-it-wrong/

    and...

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 12th-February-2015 at 09:21 AM.

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    I'm neither a lawyer nor a police officer - as far as I am aware, if an airgun is confiscated by the police for any reason then it must be tested in the condition in which it was confiscated - I don't believe they are required to use any ammunition confiscated with the airgun to perform the tests. If the airgun proves, on testing, to be making more than 12lbft of muzzle energy then they are required to inform the CPS and the decision to prosecute will rest with them. I've never met anyone personally whose been prosecuted for an airgun slightly over the limit, I tend meet very few airgunners at all these days though.

    One of the reasons I'm so fond of the HW35 is even the Venom tuners struggled to make it put out a shade more than 13lbft with every modification they could come up with. Normally they're around between 10 and 11lbft. Weather conditions, pellet weight and regular servicing just aren't going to put one over the legal limit. The HW80 on the other hand, with it's far higher swept volume, a main spring swap for a square-section jobbie made out of an old cart spring could potentially land you in a bit of hot water.

    All airguns are treated as firearms for the purposes of prosecutions, worth bearing that in mind before chancing anything as firearms offences tend to be quite sticky when it comes to your record. There's a good breakdown on the law on the airgunforum.co.uk forum here.
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    A mine field! if they are using un-calibrated test equipment as is suggested and we are using fairly cheap off the shelf equipment that is susceptible to knocks and bangs, then we have a problem. As the article says it's like being done for speeding at 32 mph on the evidence from an un-calibrated speed gun. Looks like loads of work for the lawyers or as I said I would hope that common sense would prevail, but probably not.
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    Going back to the HW 35 struggling to go way 'hot' just a hunch..probably it wasn't aimed at the U.S. market... Where as Weirhrauch up sized the piston on the 97 or was it 77 or 80 ? ?? from 25 to26 mm specifically for the U.S. shooter to get loads of extra air moving. Many have worked on later guns to find they've gone 'hot' ... There are warnings on the spring kits..

    Yes a mine field indeed ...and a subject thats been done to death on the shooting forums...

    All I can do is keep my gun in good order.. Join and get it checked at a club ,get my BASC insurance for hunting and be a responsible shooter and citizen ...
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 12th-February-2015 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ounce View Post
    I'm neither a lawyer nor a police officer - as far as I am aware, if an airgun is confiscated by the police for any reason then it must be tested in the condition in which it was confiscated - I don't believe they are required to use any ammunition confiscated with the airgun to perform the tests. If the airgun proves, on testing, to be making more than 12lbft of muzzle energy then they are required to inform the CPS and the decision to prosecute will rest with them. I've never met anyone personally whose been prosecuted for an airgun slightly over the limit, I tend meet very few airgunners at all these days though.

    One of the reasons I'm so fond of the HW35 is even the Venom tuners struggled to make it put out a shade more than 13lbft with every modification they could come up with. Normally they're around between 10 and 11lbft. Weather conditions, pellet weight and regular servicing just aren't going to put one over the legal limit. The HW80 on the other hand, with it's far higher swept volume, a main spring swap for a square-section jobbie made out of an old cart spring could potentially land you in a bit of hot water.

    All airguns are treated as firearms for the purposes of prosecutions, worth bearing that in mind before chancing anything as firearms offences tend to be quite sticky when it comes to your record. There's a good breakdown on the law on the airgunforum.co.uk forum here.
    It's posts like the above that make me miss the reputation button. A subtle way of telling the person I appreciate the time they took and the knowledge they shared. Now I have to inject into a thread like this to make that point. Oh well; worse things happen at sea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhofmann View Post
    It's posts like the above that make me miss the reputation button. A subtle way of telling the person I appreciate the time they took and the knowledge they shared. Now I have to inject into a thread like this to make that point. Oh well; worse things happen at sea.
    Here here...

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