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Thread: Remember Clause 33 ....... or Forget Magna Carta!

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    Default Remember Clause 33 ....... or Forget Magna Carta!

    See the latests News item for details of how RAFA has kicked off its 2015 campaign with even more evidence of Public Navigation Rights. In the build up to the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta the evidence from leading academics and a court case from 1702 are added to the evidence from statutes and Royal Commissions to show, beyond any reasonable doubt, that there were ancient navigation rights on all rivers. With nothing to show that those rights have been extinguished, they must still exist today.

    The new evidence has already been sent to Defra, Welsh Government, The National Trust and Three Rivers District Council who, acting on advice from their Principal Solicitor - a director of the Angling Trust, have been trying to prevent canoeing on a section of the River Colne where they lease the fishing rights to an angling club.

    This year, with the attention focussed on the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta, provides great opportunities for communicating this evidence and challenging people and organisations to make clear whether they are celebrating the spirit and intent of Magna Carta or paying lip service in the style of King John.

    What can you do to support the campaign? You can register as a supporter here and make a donation here.
    Last edited by KeithD; 30th-January-2015 at 10:18 PM.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    Three Rivers District Council who, acting on advice from their Principal Solicitor - a director of the Angling Trust, have been trying to prevent canoeing on a section of the River Colne where they lease the fishing rights to an angling club.
    .
    Would you happen to know which bit of the Coln this is Keith? I didn't see an angler on the 3RDC bit of the Colne I was on last Sunday, and which I'll probably be exploring further this weekend. Maybe it was too cold for them ...
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    Would you happen to know which bit of the Coln this is Keith?
    Its the bit going downstream from the junction with the canal just south of the lock in Rickmansworth. There is shortly a low weir. Between the A404 and the Aquadrome.
    Keith

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    Ah, thanks. That'd be the start of the loop going round the back of the Aquadrome and Stockers lake I think, which looks a nice little paddle albeit with a couple of small weirs to portage. I had a little look at that a few weeks ago but picked a Sunday with a fishing match so teeming with (fairly friendly) Anglers and turned round to leave that bit of water for a quieter day. They were a little surprised when I told them there was actually a right of Navigation on the river and didn't quite know what to say -

    Currently I'm having an explore a bit further down by Harefield but I plan on returning to the Aquadrome area and doing the loop up there.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    I know some paddlers say "been there, done that and wore the t-shirt but it didn't get us anywhere. Now, I'm just going paddling!".

    Well just paddling is helping to demonstrate the existence of public navigation rights! But how about doing it while wearing the t shirt - that would be even better! (I know at this time of year it will only be visible in the pub afterwards )


    Available in a range of colours from £10.10. There are hoodies too. See the whole range in the River Access For All Shop.
    Last edited by KeithD; 7th-February-2015 at 08:50 PM.
    Keith

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    HISTORIANS are studying an edition of the Magna Carta that makes England French property from June. Found in council archives, it contains an additional paragraph that says France can have England in 800 years’ time if the country is still a dump by then.
    Historian Susan Traherne said: “If verified, this document means on June 15th we all become French, which I intend to mark by starting smoking again and having that affair I’ve always wanted.
    “It’s not going to be an easy period of transition but people can console themselves with the spectacle of Nigel Farage losing his f....... mind.”
    The key section of the document states: “Let it be agreed that England, its lands and chattels and peoples thereof, be surrendered unto the kingdom of France 800 years from the signing of this charter if it be shewn that the place still is somewhat of a ”.
    After June 15th, football fans will have to chant “No world wars but two world cups” when playing Germany and rectangular loaves will be made illegal
    Last edited by KeithD; 9th-February-2015 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo11 View Post
    ..... people can console themselves with the spectacle of Nigel Farage losing his f....... mind.
    People may take similar consolation from your own state of mind. Good to see you no longer take yourself too seriously, Robbo.

    I've had to edit the odd word as this is a family friendly site.
    Keith

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    There's a lot to be said for being French, not least we would be able to have undisputed access to all rivers, just like dans La Belle France. Bit of an extreme way to secure undisputed access though.
    Mike

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    I'm fine with it ... Obviously
    MarkL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    There's a lot to be said for being French, not least we would be able to have undisputed access to all rivers, just like dans La Belle France. Bit of an extreme way to secure undisputed access though.
    Mike
    We wouldn't be short of countries with better river access models than us to choose from, a takeover from pretty much any of them would do. Old Vladdy seems the most likely prospect at the moment and I bet even Russia has less disputed l access than us.

    As for the French - we didn't fight a war for 100 years for nothing
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    We wouldn't be short of countries with better river access models than us to choose from, a takeover from pretty much any of them would do. Old Vladdy seems the most likely prospect at the moment and I bet even Russia has less disputed l access than us.

    As for the French - we didn't fight a war for 100 years for nothing
    I think we lost that war?

    Probably a good job for French access right that we did.

    Now I wish to God I'd joined those men when they were set ashore, but I chose a wild and a reckless life serving under Captain Moore.

    Crow Trip Log

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    I think we lost that war?
    We? Whose side was Scotland on?
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    We? Whose side was Scotland on?
    Them rotten lot was with the Frenchies. They lost even worse than us though as even through they fought alongside the French those Scottish nobles with lands in France still lost them just like the English.

    (Note that for the purpose of this discussion I'm wearing my English hat and ignoring the bit of Scottish blood I have).
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    (Note that for the purpose of this discussion I'm wearing my English hat and ignoring the bit of Scottish blood I have).
    You mustn't ignore Scottish blood - any more than you should ignore the celtic/anglo-saxon/viking/norman/irish/etc (and the healthy measure of completely unknown that we all have). Perhaps it's better just to stir it all up by going canoeing and thinking of it as human blood.
    Keith

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    The British Library haven't forgotten Clause 33! Here are their latest words on the subject from http://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/article...of-magna-carta (see paragraph 3)

    Free navigation on English rivers
    Most notoriously here, clause 33 of Magna Carta, still law in England until as recently as the 1960s, demanded the removal of all fish-weirs from the Thames, the Medway and all other rivers of England. Fish-weirs were large V-shaped structures, generally built of wooden stakes, into which fish might swim but from which they could not escape. Since weirs slowed the flow of water, they led to silting and in due course the closure of waterways vital to London’s trade. In this way the extensive use of fish-weirs represented the denial of a rather more general principle: that of free navigation, itself already of significance under Roman law, and in due course a major theme in the debates on British imperial power. The prohibitions of clause 33 were intended first and foremost to benefit the city of London, and also perhaps the Archbishop of Canterbury (who owned substantial property at Maidstone on the River Medway). Nonetheless, viewed as a public asset, the freedom of navigation guaranteed in clause 33 remains, even today, a hotly disputed principle. As a consequence, both in English and in Irish law, this remains one of Magna Carta’s most frequently cited clauses.

    ".....
    the freedom of navigation guaranteed in clause 33 ...." No doubt that Magna Carta guaranteed freedom of navigation for 750 years from the British Library then!
    Keith

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