Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 121 to 157 of 157

Thread: Threatened Legal Action by Angling Trust

  1. #121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    There are two access related communities on Facebook... Waters of Wales and The Campaign for River Access. No one could consider being a meaningful campaign these days without a strong Social Media presence. The Campaign for River Access got 400+ members very quickly... yet to see them actually doing anything... WoW has a strong Facebook presence and may lead to something active.
    Thanks for the mention, Doug.
    Just to clarify even more, Waters of Wales (WoW) is a community of independent campaigners for legislation enshrining public rights of responsible access to inland water in Wales. We aim to represent the public using the waters of Wales for responsible, sustainable recreation in, on or beside water. We are campaigning to get the process for Land Reform legislation back on track, after it was derailed last year by a strong anti-lobby, just before the promised green paper was due to appear. Active campaigning will commence shortly after the Christmas / New Year holiday and our website will be ready soon. In the meantime, people can read more about the campaign, register support for our aims and get more involved, though our Facebook community page: http://www.facebook.com/WatersofWales.WoW

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Bell View Post
    Thanks for the mention, Doug.
    Just to clarify even more, Waters of Wales (WoW) is a community of independent campaigners for legislation enshrining public rights of responsible access to inland water in Wales. We aim to represent the public using the waters of Wales for responsible, sustainable recreation in, on or beside water. We are campaigning to get the process for Land Reform legislation back on track, after it was derailed last year by a strong anti-lobby, just before the promised green paper was due to appear. Active campaigning will commence shortly after the Christmas / New Year holiday and our website will be ready soon. In the meantime, people can read more about the campaign, register support for our aims and get more involved, though our Facebook community page: http://www.facebook.com/WatersofWales.WoW
    I'll look forward to seeing your organisation develop and although I live east of Offa's Dyke I spend a lot of my leisure time in Wales so will offer my support.
    Mike

  3. #123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    I'll look forward to seeing your organisation develop and although I live east of Offa's Dyke I spend a lot of my leisure time in Wales so will offer my support.
    Mike
    We`ll look forward to seeing you in the FB group Mike

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Blackburn lancs
    Posts
    320

    Default

    just put your boats in where u like, god said its fine.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Peak District
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Bell View Post
    Thanks for the mention, Doug.
    Just to clarify even more, Waters of Wales (WoW) is a community of independent campaigners for legislation enshrining public rights of responsible access to inland water in Wales. We aim to represent the public using the waters of Wales for responsible, sustainable recreation in, on or beside water. We are campaigning to get the process for Land Reform legislation back on track, after it was derailed last year by a strong anti-lobby, just before the promised green paper was due to appear. Active campaigning will commence shortly after the Christmas / New Year holiday and our website will be ready soon. In the meantime, people can read more about the campaign, register support for our aims and get more involved, though our Facebook community page: http://www.facebook.com/WatersofWales.WoW
    This is an interesting group that I had not heard of, with excellent aims. Two questions.
    1. I just read the first entry on your FB page and it reads: 'Water should be available to all. Government needs to legislate soon so everyone can enjoy this natural resource" This was said in 2006, on BBC`s Daily Politics programme. Since then we`ve had a 10,000 signature petition, a public inquiry, more than 2 million pounds of public money spent, yet we are in the same position.
    Sorry for my ignorance but could you please give me some information regarding the petition, public inquiry and funding expenditure. I expect I should know this history but am relatively new to the debate.
    2. Do I assume that this campaign will not involve RAFA? Seems a shame if you are not working together as the aims are the same and the principles apply to both England and Wales.
    Thanks in advance for the info.

  6. #126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter R View Post
    1. I just read the first entry on your FB page and it reads: 'Water should be available to all. Government needs to legislate soon so everyone can enjoy this natural resource" This was said in 2006, on BBC`s Daily Politics programme. Since then we`ve had a 10,000 signature petition, a public inquiry, more than 2 million pounds of public money spent, yet we are in the same position.
    Sorry for my ignorance but could you please give me some information regarding the petition, public inquiry and funding expenditure. I expect I should know this history but am relatively new to the debate.
    Hi Peter, on the Facebook page you can find a number of links to background information. The `Campaign Timeline` summary https://db.tt/aV39CiG9 will answer the questions above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter R View Post
    2. Do I assume that this campaign will not involve RAFA? Seems a shame if you are not working together as the aims are the same and the principles apply to both England and Wales.
    Thanks in advance for the info.
    There is much information on RAFA which will benefit campaigns in both countries. Now that Wales` government is devolved, it is not possible to run a joint campaign for England and Wales, as different governments are responsible for this area of legislation: Welsh Government in Wales and Westminster Government in England.
    I hope this helps.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    "it is not possible to run a joint campaign for England and Wales, as different governments are responsible for this area of legislation"

    what area of legislation is that then? I thought that the fundemental problem we have is that there is no legislation! If your refering to general common law then the same applies to both countries because Wales still follows English common law traditions. If your talking about potential new legislation then it could apply purely to Wales because I understand that the Welsh Assembly gave themselves powers to create primary legislation in the areas of recreation, leisure and environment but equally it could apply to England as well and there is absolutely no reason I can see why it could not. What I beleive is an absolute necessity is that paddler's objectives in any campaign are the same for both England and Wales because if they are not we are just sowing the seeds for confusion and making the job of our opponents that much more easy. The whole question though is academic at the moment as we don't have a suitable active campaigning organisation that has any mandate to represent a membership body.
    Mike

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,603

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    If your talking about potential new legislation then it could apply purely to Wales because I understand that the Welsh Assembly gave themselves powers to create primary legislation in the areas of recreation, leisure and environment
    The Welsh Assembly is not allowed to ''give itself powers to create primary legislation'' it must seek this from the British Government. I will leave others to explain what it can and cannot legislate in this area but I think it is limited.

  9. #129

    Default

    The `Waters of Wales - WoW` community was set up to campaign to Welsh Government to see through the process of implementing legislation, similar to Scottish Land Reform, to clarify and enshrine public rights to the countryside, including water. This process started in 2008 with a petition, and in 2013 Welsh Government announced an imminent green paper, but postponed publication indefinitely. More details of the WoW campaign are available through the Facebook page, and anyone (from any nation) wishing to get more directly involved can join the action group, where they will be very welcome.

    As the BBC would say: Other campaign groups are, of course, available

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Peak District
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Bell View Post
    Hi Peter, on the Facebook page you can find a number of links to background information. The `Campaign Timeline` summary https://db.tt/aV39CiG9 will answer the questions above.


    There is much information on RAFA which will benefit campaigns in both countries. Now that Wales` government is devolved, it is not possible to run a joint campaign for England and Wales, as different governments are responsible for this area of legislation: Welsh Government in Wales and Westminster Government in England.
    I hope this helps.
    Thanks for this link Pam, I have now read my homework! There has clearly been a lot more activity than I was aware of, some of it disappointing. In particular it was disappointing that the public inquiry appeared 'interested' but unconvinced by the Caffyn view on PRoN (at least that was how I read it), and that they chose the VAA option which has been unsuccessful again. Best of luck with the future campaign work and I hope you will keep the forum informed when help is needed. It would also be great if your information was not just available via Facebook as some of us have no intention of registering!

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    The Welsh Assembly is not allowed to ''give itself powers to create primary legislation'' it must seek this from the British Government. I will leave others to explain what it can and cannot legislate in this area but I think it is limited.
    From good old Wikipedia,

    "The Assembly had no powers to initiate primary legislation until limited law-making powers were gained through the Government of Wales Act 2006. Its primary law-making powers were enhanced following a Yes vote in the referendum on 3 March 2011, making it possible for it to legislate without having to consult the UK parliament in the 20 areas that are devolved."
    Those 20 areas include enough of the areas to be able to deal with legislation for access to rivers and any associated regulations to make it work.
    Mike

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,603

    Default

    I always prefer to check with the legislation rather than wiki since the information is not thereby edited

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/32/schedule/5

  13. #133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    The whole question though is academic at the moment as we don't have a suitable active campaigning organisation that has any mandate to represent a membership body.
    Mike
    Grass roots campaigning organizations do not have to have a "mandate to represent a membership body", (whatever that is?). They represent themselves; and people who agree with them, join up and work towards their common objective; thus a movement is created and change occurs. It is the way all our freedoms have been won. They are not won by hoping the rich and powerful will voluntarily forfeit their stolen privilege just because you present them with a legal argument that seems to be convincing. If you believe anything will change without an active campaign, you are displaying Olympic level naivety. That sound you can hear is the the Angling Trust laughing.
    Last edited by dougdew99; 24th-December-2014 at 01:50 PM.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  14. #134
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Grass Roots campaigning organisations are great and I’d like to join a paddling access one and work towards a common objective, creating a movement and making change happen.
    The trouble is there isn’t one at the moment.
    Mike

  15. #135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter R View Post
    ... It would also be great if your information was not just available via Facebook as some of us have no intention of registering!
    A website is under construction and we hope that it will go online shortly after the Christmas/New Year break. I will post the link on this forum

  16. #136

    Default

    A bit later than we hoped, but the Waters of Wales - WoW website is now live

    www.watersofwales.org.uk

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cheshire UK
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Bell View Post
    A bit later than we hoped, but the Waters of Wales - WoW website is now live

    www.watersofwales.org.uk
    Well done and good luck.
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    Both groups are campaigning and contain individual that have been campaigning for a long time.

    The way the governments work in the countries depends upon various thing but by targeting both. There is more chance of progress in the campaigns.

    Originally Posted by 25272527
    The whole question though is academic at the moment as we don't have a suitable active campaigning organisation that has any mandate to represent a membership body.
    Mike
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Grass roots campaigning organizations do not have to have a "mandate to represent a membership body", (whatever that is?). They represent themselves; and people who agree with them, join up and work towards their common objective; thus a movement is created and change occurs. It is the way all our freedoms have been won. They are not won by hoping the rich and powerful will voluntarily forfeit their stolen privilege just because you present them with a legal argument that seems to be convincing. If you believe anything will change without an active campaign, you are displaying Olympic level naivety. That sound you can hear is the the Angling Trust laughing.
    Last edited by dougdew99; 24th-December-2014 at 02:50 PM.
    if you want to help ask yourself what can I do....... and then volunteer.

    http://www.watersofwales.org.uk/

    http://www.riversaccesforall.co.uk

    Latest news here.
    http://www.riveraccessforall.co.uk/news.php#remem
    Last edited by KeithD; 31st-January-2015 at 09:51 PM. Reason: fix quote

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Someone urgently needs to give this website a good proof read. It's littered with typos and grammatical errors. not the most professional effort!
    Mike

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Eton on the banks of the River Thames between Windsor and Slough
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    Someone urgently needs to give this website a good proof read. It's littered with typos and grammatical errors. not the most professional effort!
    Mike
    Which website?
    Fran

    Photobucket stole my sig



  21. #141
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fran View Post
    Which website?
    www.watersofwales.org.uk

    riddled with errors and poorly written. It does not provide a very professional shop window.
    Mike

  22. #142
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chesham in Bucks.
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    www.watersofwales.org.uk

    riddled with errors and poorly written. It does not provide a very professional shop window.
    Mike
    I'm sure the good folks running the web site will appreciate any errata you send to them Mike.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


  23. #143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    Someone urgently needs to give this website a good proof read. It's littered with typos and grammatical errors. not the most professional effort!
    Mike
    This kind of negative comment annoys me. It would have been so simple to contact the site and offer help... Thank goodness for the Ignore option...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  24. #144
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Kettering Northamptonshire
    Posts
    884

    Default

    Whilst acknowledging the odd error I actually thought it was one of the most attractive and engaging websites I have looked at recently.
    A ship should not ride on a single anchor, nor life on a single hope - Epictetus

  25. #145
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    I'm sure they would appreciate a POLITE email helping point out any errors...

  26. #146
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,603

    Default

    Just a polite note Andy, you should really turn that verb into the infinitive tense.

  27. #147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Just a polite note Andy, you should really turn that verb into the infinitive tense.
    Just a polite note, Adrian, there is no such thing as an 'infinitive tense'. The infinitive is not a tense. As Dr Wiki notes ;
    "Regarding English, the term "infinitive" is traditionally applied to the unmarked form of the verb when used as a non-finite verb, whether or not introduced by the particle to. Hence sit and to sit, as used in the following sentences, would each be described as an infinitive:

    • I can sit here all day.
    • I want to sit on the other chair.

    The form without to is called the bare infinitive; the form introduced by to is called the full infinitive or to-infinitive.
    The other non-finite verb forms in English are the gerund or present participle (the -ing form), and the past participle – these are not referred to as infinitives. Moreover the unmarked form of the verb is not regarded as an infinitive when it is used as a finite verb: as a present indicative ("I sit every day"), subjunctive ("I suggest that he sit"), or imperative ("Sit down!"). (For some irregular verbs the form of the infinitive coincides additionally with that of the past tense and/or past participle, as in the case of put.)"
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  28. #148
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Cheshire UK
    Posts
    1,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Just a polite note, Adrian, there is no such thing as an 'infinitive tense'. The infinitive is not a tense. As Dr Wiki notes ;
    "Regarding English, the term "infinitive" is traditionally applied to the unmarked form of the verb when used as a non-finite verb, whether or not introduced by the particle to. Hence sit and to sit, as used in the following sentences, would each be described as an infinitive:

    • I can sit here all day.
    • I want to sit on the other chair.

    The form without to is called the bare infinitive; the form introduced by to is called the full infinitive or to-infinitive.
    The other non-finite verb forms in English are the gerund or present participle (the -ing form), and the past participle – these are not referred to as infinitives. Moreover the unmarked form of the verb is not regarded as an infinitive when it is used as a finite verb: as a present indicative ("I sit every day"), subjunctive ("I suggest that he sit"), or imperative ("Sit down!"). (For some irregular verbs the form of the infinitive coincides additionally with that of the past tense and/or past participle, as in the case of put.)"
    Yeh like wot eva!!!!
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

  29. #149
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,603

    Default

    Well at least Andy knew I was only teasing.




    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    there is no such thing as an 'infinitive tense'. ........................

    Hence sit and to sit, as used in the following sentences, would each be described as an infinitive:

  30. #150

    Default

    Maybee Doug iss ownly teesing

  31. #151

    Default

    Well spotted, Lugg Birds.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  32. #152
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Robin Hood's Bay,Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,605

    Default

    Meanwhile, as Rome burns..............................................
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

  33. #153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter R View Post
    ...I hope you will keep the forum informed when help is needed
    Thanks Peter!
    The big thing now is writing to Welsh Assembly Members (AM`s) both to get the green paper back on the government agenda and to raise awareness of the issue as the political parties in Wales put together their manifesto for the 2016 election.
    An open letter to Welsh Government was delivered by hand on Monday, with a copy for each AM. We have received an acknowledgment of receipt from the Minister`s office, and should have a reply in the not-too-distant future.
    Now that each AM has been made aware of the issue, it is time to start letter-writing in earnest. You can find the AM`s who represent you by entering your postcode on this site. Each person resident in Wales is represented by a constituency AM and four regional AM`s, and it is important to write to all of them.
    The open letter may help you to pick out elements to use in your own letters. Ideally, include issues or events from your own region or constituency to make the letter more relevant to the AM you are writing to, and any information you may have about the position taken by your AM, and/or their political party`s policy.
    It will help greatly if you feed back to us, ideally using the links from the WoW website, or via FB if you are a group member, any replies you receive, or anything else you know or pick up locally. I will post the link to this in the near future. Any comments/suggestions/questions please make via the FB group or website, as we are trying to keep everything together.
    Happy letter-writing!

  34. #154

    Default

    Pam,
    Congratulations on this well thought out and active campaign. Is there any scope for residents of the rest of the UK to contribute in some way?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  35. #155

    Default

    Hi Doug
    Residents of the rest of UK (or outside UK) are affected by the current situation as tourists to Wales. They can contribute in various ways:
    * registering support for the campaign (currently by `Liking` the FB page or emailing via the website).
    *
    spreading the word amongst the wider water-using public: swimmers/paddlers, birdwatchers, ramblers, gorge-walkers "stick-throwing dog walkers"...
    * raising the issue with relevant ministers in Welsh Government; Visit Wales; holiday accommodation providers...
    * offering your services as a volunteer to be notified as and when opportunities arise.
    Thanks for asking

  36. #156
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Peak District
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Thanks for this information Pam. Please tell us who it is best to write to in the Welsh Government (I've just registered with WOW and asked the same question there).
    Very best of luck.
    Peter

  37. #157

    Default

    Pam
    I have volunteered.
    Doug
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •