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Thread: From an angler.....

  1. #1
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    Cool From an angler.....

    From an angler first/paddler second.....

    Having any kind of access discussion on here is like talking to the Hydra - answer one head satisfactorily and another appears.

    I was even accused of being petty and correcting someone's spelling last night (a thing I never do).
    I try to keep polite, I try not to rise when the point-scoring tactics switch to a war of attrition (usually in the form of how many simple questions can we ask until he goes away, whilst remaining overtly cool and calm ourselves), but it's a hard road at times.

  2. #2
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    I was even accused of being petty and correcting someone's spelling last night (a thing I never do).
    Originally Posted by pipster3
    Thanks again Very helpful I had it in my head that it was a rod license ... David h wrote: yep - it's called a rod licence.

    enough said really
    Last edited by Quicky; 19th-July-2014 at 01:03 PM.

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    A bit harsh. I can see at first reading that appears to be the case however If posts 172, 174 and 175 on the "Wales open for Canoeing" are unaltered, pipster2 posts using license, in his reply davidh spells it correctly but makes no reference to pipster3's misspelling.
    Presumably pipster3 notices the difference and in his next post thanks davidh for the correct term and davidh in 175 is merely confirming that is the case.

    I am not taking sides in this debate I neither angle nor paddle rivers but am interested in legal discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watermark View Post
    A bit harsh. I can see at first reading that appears to be the case however If posts 172, 174 and 175 on the "Wales open for Canoeing" are unaltered, pipster2 posts using license, in his reply davidh spells it correctly but makes no reference to pipster3's misspelling.
    Presumably pipster3 notices the difference and in his next post thanks davidh for the correct term and davidh in 175 is merely confirming that is the case.

    I am not taking sides in this debate I neither angle nor paddle rivers but am interested in legal discussions.
    Thank you for a bit of sanity. Quicky - I was not correcting anyone.
    I make a point of not correcting spelling on fora. I think its bad manners to do so.
    Last edited by davidh; 19th-July-2014 at 03:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    enough said really
    Look Quirky if you have a problem with David don't use my bad spelling as a way of scoring points ... I haven't got a problem with anything David said last night and to be honest hadn't even noticed the spelling error which is fairly common for me as I'm Dyslexic lived with it for years and really don't get offended that easy ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipster3 View Post
    Look Quirky if you have a problem with David don't use my bad spelling as a way of scoring points ... I haven't got a problem with anything David said last night and to be honest hadn't even noticed the spelling error which is fairly common for me as I'm Dyslexic lived with it for years and really don't get offended that easy ...
    Thanks.

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    How can we turn this circular discussion about the bad behaviour of individuals into a constructive discussion about fostering good relations between all users on our rivers. This already happens on many (most?) rivers and yet there are others where we are a long way from constructive sharing. It must be clear to everyone that canoeing and angling are going to be around for a very long time so how can we build constructive relationships that will help everyone enjoy their pastimes without retreating into sniping between tribal blocks?
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    How can we turn this circular discussion about the bad behaviour of individuals into a constructive discussion about fostering good relations between all users on our rivers. This already happens on many (most?) rivers and yet there are others where we are a long way from constructive sharing. It must be clear to everyone that canoeing and angling are going to be around for a very long time so how can we build constructive relationships that will help everyone enjoy their pastimes without retreating into sniping between tribal blocks?
    The sniping is inevitable I'm afraid. There is too much rumour and innuendo floating around in each camp for individuals not to be influenced.
    My main concern is the Wye, which also happens to be one of the rivers where there are problems. That it has been a famous salmon river in the past, and is also a good paddling river which happens to be near several large conurbations is no coincidence.

    If I post something here about bad behaviour I try to be as factual as possible. I do the same verbally to anglers about bad angling behaviour if I see it, or if I hear about it from a reputable source.
    On the Wye, getting the hire companires to put their own collective house in order before someone is killed would go a long way towards smoothing out relations beteeen anglers and paddlers, and I believe we are moving some way towards that.

    The anglers I know, even the hard-line faction on the Wye, know that the vast majority of paddlers behave themselves - most of the stuff I hear is about 'another boat bumped me today - no apologies'. 'Hire-boat?' and we nod and change the subject.

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    David, I'm reading this on the ferry returning back to the UK after three weeks of paddling on the Lot, Dordogne, and Thouet. Hundreds of canoes on some sections of the Dordogne, plenty on the lot, and a few on the Thouet.Plenty of anglers on the bank, and some in boats. Folks swimming, kids splashing around. No 'keep out' signs, no barbed wire, no hassle, good free put ins, with free parking for everyone regardless of what they choose to do on the water. Everyone is having fun, the anglers set up right next to the picnic spots and fish amongst the kids in inflatables, canoes, dogs and swimmers. They catch fish. Everyone is happy. If you haven't seen how it works in the rest of the world can I suggest you go and have a look. There's some very handsome barbel in the Dordogne and Lot and some very impressive carp, and huge catfish in the slower rivers. Enough to keep any angler happy, and the weather is (usually) better than in England, and almost always better than in Wales.
    Go and have a look and you'll realise that in tha UK we're all arguing about a problem that doesn't /shouldnt actually exist.
    Paul

    Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    David, I'm reading this on the ferry returning back to the UK after three weeks of paddling on the Lot, Dordogne, and Thouet. Hundreds of canoes on some sections of the Dordogne, plenty on the lot, and a few on the Thouet.Plenty of anglers on the bank, and some in boats. Folks swimming, kids splashing around. No 'keep out' signs, no barbed wire, no hassle, good free put ins, with free parking for everyone regardless of what they choose to do on the water. Everyone is having fun, the anglers set up right next to the picnic spots and fish amongst the kids in inflatables, canoes, dogs and swimmers. They catch fish. Everyone is happy. If you haven't seen how it works in the rest of the world can I suggest you go and have a look. There's some very handsome barbel in the Dordogne and Lot and some very impressive carp, and huge catfish in the slower rivers. Enough to keep any angler happy, and the weather is (usually) better than in England, and almost always better than in Wales.
    Go and have a look and you'll realise that in tha UK we're all arguing about a problem that doesn't /shouldnt actually exist.
    Paul

    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    I'm not arguing with anyone. My concern is specifically with the Wye, Although I maintain that there IS a problem in England and Wales, and saying there isn't/shouldn't be is usually the opening line for blaming someone (its the bloody anglers/bloody canoeists :-) ).
    Not saying you are doing this - just saying. I have said before on here, but it's worth repeating, that the rivers where the problem is most prevelant seem to be salmon rivers..............

    I don't know the rivers you mention, but I'll write this first then go and take a look.
    To come back to your barbel and catfish. If I said to you that all canoes apart from 12ft and 18ft bathtubs were to be banned in England and Wales, but that there are enough 12ft and 18ft bathtubs to satisfy even the keenest paddler you would be rightly miffed. I'm not interested in barbel, less in catfish. I like to sight-fish for trout, chub and grayling, salmon and carp occasionally. Wild trout scare easily, so do big chub. Grayling less so, and carp less so again. In fact I've paddled over the backs of really large carp - something you certainly won't do with a wild trout.

    France is a different country to England and Wales. The law is different, and the behaviour is different - it has to be, because that's the way it is.
    If our laws were changed so that the countryside became one big park we would have to rub along, it hasn't currently though.

    I'm guessing your rivers are very different to the Wye - I'll go and look in a sec. I'm guessing you didn't see many drunken stag parties. I'm also guessing that there are some rivers in France where you just would not be allowed with a canoe - I'll look that up too. France, being relatively massive compared to England/Wales, and with a smaller population, has room to keep things hidden if she want to do so. I certainly saw property in Brittany the last time I was there which was private with a capital P. Right - lets go and have a look at where you were paddling.......

    So, back again, and it looks lovely, and I trust you had a great holiday!
    But it's different to the Wye.

    With regard to private rivers in France, some people are saying that the private rivers are very private (which is what I thought), but I found this on a uk forum 'this would be for the northern part of france not the whole of france, there is very little private water in france as access to rivers is allowed, But the french do love red tape and this is the mine field, on some rivers you can only fish on tuesdays on others fridays etc. but all will be explained for you when you get your permit'.
    And if we eventually have open access on water I'm guessing that is what will happen here too - not just for anglers, but also for paddlers.
    Last edited by davidh; 20th-July-2014 at 10:58 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    Go and have a look and you'll realise that in the UK we're all arguing about a problem that doesn't /shouldnt actually exist.
    Paul
    Ahem. I think you'll find that in the northern part of the UK, a.k.a. Scotland, nobody is arguing about this "problem". It was resolved there quite a while ago.

    You probably mean England and Wales.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    Ahem. I think you'll find that in the northern part of the UK, a.k.a. Scotland, nobody is arguing about this "problem". It was resolved there quite a while ago.

    You probably mean England and Wales.

    Well spotted. I stand corrected
    Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh View Post
    Hi Paul,
    ...................................So, back again, and it looks lovely, and I trust you had a great holiday!
    But it's different to the Wye.....................................
    Sorry for the late reply...a brilliant holiday in a beautiful place thanks, and well worth the very long drive there and back. I was looking at an info board on the Dordogne and was surprised to see salmon and sea trout pictured amongst the fish in the river. This is well inland from the coast and a long swim for any fish. Apparently fishing for them is not allowed, though it didn't say why. There's also some nice trout and grayling in the rivers for the more 'discerning' angler, and fly fishing and spinning are popular. I watched a chap dry fly fishing though, and he was just catching dace. The point about other countries being less populated than ours is often used as a reason for some conflict here, but whilst France in general is clearly less populated than here, the concentration of people along the rivers in summer is considerably higher than it is on rivers like the Wye. Having said that the Dordogne is of course a much bigger river than the Wye so it can accommodate more people. Smaller rivers like the Cele seem to have a similar mix of activities/numbers of people to the Wye including scuba divers at one point who dive into a cave system via an underwater entrance in the river, but everyone just rubs along fine.
    Paul
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    Thanks for getting back.

    I think the problem with the Wye is probably unique, in that come late Spring the hordes descend, and it really does become very crowded indeed (but not up here).

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh View Post
    Thanks for getting back.

    I think the problem with the Wye is probably unique, in that come late Spring the hordes descend, and it really does become very crowded indeed (but not up here).
    We all know why that is, first it's a great river and second it has become a honey pot due to the agro on other rivers in the past, so you are getting more than your fair share of use. As things progress some of this use will move to other rivers, if some of the angling community get their way the closed season will be removed so you can fish when the hordes have left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    We all know why that is, first it's a great river and second it has become a honey pot due to the agro on other rivers in the past, so you are getting more than your fair share of use. As things progress some of this use will move to other rivers, if some of the angling community get their way the closed season will be removed so you can fish when the hordes have left.
    It's difficult to see how the closed seasons can be moved or done away with. They are there to protect spawning fish.

    I think the river is overused because of it's geographical location. I could be wrong on that though, and wouldn't argue the point.

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    The Wye is popular because it has reliable water. It is extremely rare, if ever, that there isn't enough water in it for boating from Glasbury downwards.

    Tourists (i.e. people who never normally canoe or kayak, but have hired boats as a one off as part of a group) do need educating about how they are affecting the environment sometimes. But we should not forget that villages such as Glasbury would be utterly dead if not for the likes of the canoe centre and Black Mountain Activities etc. Both Wye Valley Canoes and its accompanying cafe/restaurant are the main attractions in the village. Along with the local scout group and canoe club both Glasbury and Hay on Wye are lucky that there is at least a ready made option for a healthy activity for young people to take part in. Something that many dead villages around the country would be crying out for.

    This is the same reason that Llangollen was popular. Note the word "was". Water tourism, and hence a large part of tourism there will die a death if they carry on the way they are.

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