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Thread: What's up with WUF?

  1. #1
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    Default What's up with WUF?

    WUF seems to have infuriated conservationists, anglers, and paddlers but are presenting themselves as some sort of responsible authority. The purpose of this thread is to collect all these complaints, as hard information, in one place so as to counter any possible undue influence with the Welsh Government in response to the Green Paper on Access. We do not want accusations but hard facts from which a report may be prepared


    It would be helpful if those who have posted elsewhere could repost on this thread with supporting documentation, one post per issue and anyone with similar complaints makes new posts.


    If you notice any coincidences, ask the question, “Is this a coincidence?” and then give details with documentation if possible. Some will be real coincidences but if we record them all then a pattern may emerge.


    Any harassment, threats, or intimidation by persons connected with WUF should be reported with as much detail as possible. Quotations of exact words used would be very useful.


    If you notice any relationships, associations, or even common memberships of organisations which may represent a conflict of interests, then post it with whatever evidence you have. Some may be trivial but again a pattern may emerge as the data set grows. Be careful to pose it as a question, “Does this represent a conflict of interests?”


    Do you have any evidence of dodgy deals or financial impropriety? Do not accuse just present bare facts with documentary evidence.


    Is there a whistle-blower in NRW who can tell us what is really going on?


    Reports of opposition to WUF's activities or policies from the local press would be very useful.


    Please do not post hearsay or libellous comments. They are no use.

  2. #2
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    The first complaint is that WUF is committing a public nuisance by attempting to interfere with the public right of navigation.


    The PRN on the entire Wye catchment has been asserted here


    It is an historical fact that the Common Law PRN existed and was consistently enforced by all the kings during the medieval period. This is a matter of public record to be found in the Patent Rolls, sample here. This became the Common Law in Wales in 1536
    The Wye Navigation Order 2002 has this Saving clause



    1. Nothing in this Order shall be construed as implying that there is, or that there is not, a public right of navigation over the upper rivers and the tributaries, or any part of those rivers and tributaries.


    Parliament has not extinguished the PRN by by legislation or the exercise of statutory powers, so it still exists.



    The agreement between BOPA and WUF has no effect on third parties who are not parties to the agreement.


    If you see one of WUF's signs saying that using an access point implies that you have become a party to the agreement

    1. On private land. Find somewhere else to put in. Crossing private land would be a consideration which could form part of a contract.
    2. Land where the public has right to be or land used by the general public without restriction or attempts to exclude. Entering and crossing such land may not be a consideration so there can be no contract. The sign has no meaning.



    As an environmental charity WUF has no powers to permit or prevent canoeing.


    If WUF try to interfere with your canoeing, you have every right to ignore them and call the police to any public order incidents such as the use of foul language or more serious offences.

  3. #3
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    Is this a coincidence?

    Within 24 hours of starting this thread, I received an e-mail at the canoedovedale address informing me that someone wanted me dead.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angut View Post
    Is this a coincidence?

    Within 24 hours of starting this thread, I received an e-mail at the canoedovedale address informing me that someone wanted me dead.
    I truly hope you have reported this as a written threat to the police.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike A View Post
    I truly hope you have reported this as a written threat to the police.
    Nothing traceable. It is too easy to fake IP and e-mail addresses. It might be the same person as tried to get bigfish.com (the darkside of microsopft) to get my addresses banned as spam sources.

  6. #6
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    Once again we have NRW doing the biddiong of fishermen on the Wye and Usk

    http://www.abergavenny-chronicle-tod...on%20the%20Usk

    Has anyone ever seen NRW doing anything the fishermen did not want?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angut View Post
    Nothing traceable. It is too easy to fake IP and e-mail addresses. It might be the same person as tried to get bigfish.com (the darkside of microsopft) to get my addresses banned as spam sources.
    No it's not. They would have to go to great lengths to fake the IP routing back to their desktop, they could disguise it but it is always traceable by the authorities. This is like the 3 minutes to trace a call myth....

    report it
    Cheers,

    Alan


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    No it's not. They would have to go to great lengths to fake the IP routing back to their desktop, they could disguise it but it is always traceable by the authorities. This is like the 3 minutes to trace a call myth....

    report it
    The boys on the darkside are cute and I have good reason to think the authorities or at least some rogue element in the authorities are in on it. When I opened up Dovedale, someone got into my home and went through my untidy pileing system without leaving a trace except all my crb documentation had gone. They then got on my computer and deleted all electronic copies that were my hard drive and all portable media that were in the house. I will not be surprised if my next crb check reveals previously unrecorded and ficticious sex offenses. Next they put a struxnet type virus on my computer that simulated progressive but random breakdown of my e-mail software. The sort of thing the security forces would use against discedents. Since then there has been persistent probing to try to take control of my website. Following my update of the national register of asserted PRNs they have hacked BT and changed the link labeled manage andybiddulph.co.uk to point to an automatic logout page. BT are investigating.

    Sooner or later they will make a mistake and leave a trace. Then I will manure the turbine.
    Last edited by Angut; 27th-April-2014 at 02:30 PM. Reason: typo fat finger

  9. #9
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    Maybe I have solved it WUF are pro-canoeing!


    • Geoff Maynard commented
      #286.1
      10-03-14, 06:15 PM
      I'm trying to improve things on my stretch. Any improvement with the canoes will be a success. Not that I expect any improvement from this but it's one of the boxes I apparently have to tick. If only it were as easy as calling a policeman to kick them off - but it isn't. So I have to follow 'procedures' and jump through hoops to exhaust every possible option... after which I'll try my own methods, which I would rather not discuss on a forum.
      WUF probably see themselves as part of the solution but I've made no secret to them that in this matter I consider their pro-canoe agenda to be part of the problem. I'm under no illusions SD.




    http://www.fishingthread.com/forum/c...rthly-delights
    page 20

  10. #10

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    Sorry its somewhat off topic but I couldn't see the piubt in starting a new one;

    As illegal fishing is apparently costing the economy such a massive amounts, and as such landowner bodies such as WUF are employing bayliffs to check licences.......

    It struck me - due to our method of navigation, aren't we in the best position to approach the likes of WUF and become such bayliffs......checking angling licences? It could really help them.....though it may make some spit feathers....and we wouldn't want that would we.....

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    think they would politey or unpolitely tell you to go and do something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlipT View Post
    Sorry its somewhat off topic but I couldn't see the piubt in starting a new one;

    As illegal fishing is apparently costing the economy such a massive amounts, and as such landowner bodies such as WUF are employing bayliffs to check licences.......

    It struck me - due to our method of navigation, aren't we in the best position to approach the likes of WUF and become such bayliffs......checking angling licences? It could really help them.....though it may make some spit feathers....and we wouldn't want that would we.....
    Actually that is not a bad idea. The Leek and District in Dovedale all wear ID badges so that they are clearly differentiated from poachers. I would not be in favour of canoeists tackling poachers but providing intelegence for the bailiffs could have legs. A phone number for canoeists or any other member of the public to contact if suspicious of fishermen without a badge would do the trick.

    The downside is that people would need to be motivated to help the fishermen. In some places this could be a difficult PR job due to historical attitudes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angut View Post
    Actually that is not a bad idea. The Leek and District in Dovedale all wear ID badges so that they are clearly differentiated from poachers. I would not be in favour of canoeists tackling poachers but providing intelegence for the bailiffs could have legs. A phone number for canoeists or any other member of the public to contact if suspicious of fishermen without a badge would do the trick.

    The downside is that people would need to be motivated to help the fishermen. In some places this could be a difficult PR job due to historical attitudes.
    I have found that wearing my Delta "Ranger" buoyancy aid, which has a big Ranger label, has has a strange effect on a few fishermen on my approach, causing sudden packing away of gear. Normally by those with English as a second language.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    I have found that wearing my Delta "Ranger" buoyancy aid, which has a big Ranger label, has has a strange effect on a few fishermen on my approach, causing sudden packing away of gear. Normally by those with English as a second language.
    Now here is a moral dilema. Should we support Welshmen exerting their ancient rights to take fish from the waters of their native land in defiance of 500years of Saxon law imposed on them by a Welsh King of England, or turn them in to the bailiffs?

  15. #15

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    There is an argument that unlicenced anglers don't count towards official angling numbers......decreasing the value of angling when compared to other outdoor tourism.....especially when you give those illegals a £ negative value.

  16. #16

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    Some news from the Wye and Usk Foundation. The director, Stephen Marsh-Smith OBE, is stepping down and handing the reins to his loyal deputy Simon Evans. Having exhausted the supply of grants available for the rivers Wye and Usk, S.M-S is taking up a new (salaried) position as the head of Afonydd Cymru, which I’m told he was given because of his contacts within the Welsh Government and his knowledge and skills at obtaining grants.

  17. #17

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    Marsh-Smith is a ******.

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    I hear he speaks highly of you too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrongangle View Post
    Some news from the Wye and Usk Foundation. The director, Stephen Marsh-Smith OBE, is stepping down and handing the reins to his loyal deputy Simon Evans. Having exhausted the supply of grants available for the rivers Wye and Usk, S.M-S is taking up a new (salaried) position as the head of Afonydd Cymru, which I’m told he was given because of his contacts within the Welsh Government and his knowledge and skills at obtaining grants.
    If he (SMS) concentrates on the aims of the trust I wish him well, only time will tell if he uses this appointment to continue his attempts to restrict navigation in favour of the Anglers. He is now working for the public benefit not just the Anglers !!!!

    The aims of Afonydd Cymru are:

    1. To advance the education of the public in the management of water and environmental protection, conservation, rehabilitation and improvement.
    2. To advance the education of the public in the understanding of rivers, their basins, fauna and flora.
    3. To protect, conserve, rehabilitate and improve the rivers, streams, watercourses and river basins, including adjacent coastal waters and water impoundments, of Wales or any part or parts thereof for the public benefit.
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

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    I thought would take a look at the Afonydd Cymru website - my McAfee website adviser gave the following warning...

    Whoa!

    Are you sure you want to go there?
    http://www.afonyddcymru.org/ may be risky to visit.
    Why are you seeing this?
    When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors.



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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    If he (SMS) concentrates on the aims of the trust I wish him well, only time will tell if he uses this appointment to continue his attempts to restrict navigation in favour of the Anglers. He is now working for the public benefit not just the Anglers !!!!
    I don't think Afonydd Cymru is any sort of public body. It may be a charity but it's remit is limited and I suspect its aims are vague.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    I don't think Afonydd Cymru is any sort of public body. It may be a charity but it's remit is limited and I suspect its aims are vague.
    The aims are taken from their website, so I am sure they will keep to them.

    Link to the company info. https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...rs-secretaries
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

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    Companies House records show that Afonydd Cymru was set up as a private limited company in 2008 and The Charity Commission records that it was registered as a charity in 2012.

    It is interesting to note that on the Memorandum of Association of the company the witness to the signatories gives their address as c/o EA Wales,...

  24. #24
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    The aims of Afonydd Cymru are:


    1. To advance the education of the public in the management of water and environmental protection, conservation, rehabilitation and improvement.
    2. To advance the education of the public in the understanding of rivers, their basins, fauna and flora.
    3. To protect, conserve, rehabilitate and improve the rivers, streams, watercourses and river basins, including adjacent coastal waters and water impoundments, of Wales or any part or parts thereof for the public benefit.


    That lot are so sufficiently vague that you wouldn't have to be a Donald Trump or indeed a Borilla Johnson to impliment them hand on heart either promoting paddling or equally preventing paddling. Probably the best way to understand their objectives is to look at the key players involved.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by 25272527 View Post
    That lot are so sufficiently vague that you wouldn't have to be a Donald Trump or indeed a Borilla Johnson to impliment them hand on heart either promoting paddling or equally preventing paddling. Probably the best way to understand their objectives is to look at the key players involved.
    Mike
    Obviously you are correct Mike, but they are claiming charitable status with declared aims, they can be called to account if they use charitable funds incorrectly. This may not stop them but if it adversely affects us we have a stick to beat them with.
    "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
    Grp Cpt Sir Douglas Bader CBE,DSO,DFC,FRAeS.

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