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Thread: Outfitting My Canoe

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    Default Outfitting My Canoe

    My choice of title for this article was made carefully. This is not a general article on outfitting, covering all the many permutations according to country, environment, taste or use. Rather, it is very much about how I outfit my canoe for the work and journeys that I do in the UK and Europe. By contrast, if I were outfitting a Kevlar boat for flat water it would be very minimalist.

    My Wenonah Prospector 16’ is used on white water up to and including grade 3 and open waters with considerable fetch, including coastal. I have been using a similar set-up for some twenty years now. So, I hope in this context, what I have to share will be useful to you and others paddling in similar environments under similar circumstances.

    The Bare Boat: Starting With A Fresh Canoe


    The bare boat. A Wenonah Prospector 16′.

    The bare boat: A Wenonah Prospector 16′. It’s a great multi-purpose design derived from a very traditional craft. It has plenty of rocker and a nice shallow arch cross-section, which means I can easily roll it onto its edge paddling solo.

    Because I want to lash in airbags and other kit we are marking up the side to thread a rope all the way down the side.



    Marking up the side to thread a rope all the way down the side.

    I use a three-inch spacing in the airbag area and a four-inch one elsewhere: many others will use an equal spacing but this is what I have settled on over the years.
    I need the holes far enough below the gunwale to make it useable on the inside but I don’t want to drop it too far as solo I often use the canoe heeled right over and there will be some seepage through the holes.
    The width of the tape measure seems about right as a marker.



    With a steady hand Lina doesn’t bother to put masking tape on the Royalex but just drills away. Another hole mark is above the ‘n’ of nah.




    Feeding the cord through the holes.

    In the airbag section the cord is looped through the holes and then tightened but leaving a bit of slack to make the inside loops usable. The cord is 5mm climbing cord.
    For the middle section we are adding small sections of plastic pipe to make loops on the inside of the boat. My three-year-old daughter Maya Rose is keen to help.



    Maya Rose helps with threading the piping.



    Looped cord with plastic piping on the inside of the boat.

    The final knot is on the inside of the canoe as I want the outside clean and tidy. The blue rope is trimmed off close to the knot.

    Fitting Air Bags For Buoyancy

    After fitting the cords down the sides of the boat, next is the fitting of D rings as extra security for the air bags. Having chosen the spot I draw around the vinyl D ring patch and then lightly sand both the boat and the underside of the patch.



    Having chosen the spot I draw around the vinyl D ring patch and then lightly sand both the boat and the underside of the patch.

    Vinyl Bond is applied to both the boat and the patch and allowed to dry slightly before pressing together. I follow the instructions on the tube!



    Applying vinyl bond.




    An even coating.



    Making sure it’s firmly in place.



    View of the rear of the boat. The D-ring is situated back under where the airbag will be.

    N.B. In the above photo, you’ll see that the D-ring is situated back under where the airbag will be and not directly at the end of the airbag. A tape will go from there along the floor around the airbag and then back to the carrying handle to fix the airbag in place.

    A Search For the Holy Grail And Modifications Enabling A Sailing Rig

    I usually have a small sailing rig in my boats so I need a mast foot and an attachment on the rear of the bow seat. Sometimes I have added a piece of wood below the seat but Endless River have a neat seat that does the job so I am replacing the original.



    Endless River seat with integral mast hole is very neat and will replace the standard seat in this boat.




    Using the original as a template for the seat bolt-holes on the new seat.




    Maya Rose now thinks that marking up the canoe is a job for her. However intent the expression the lines are a bit random.

    Finding a good mast foot is a bit like the search for the Holy Grail. Some use a properly shaped piece of wood.
    Years ago a friend of mine spotted these black rubber raft inflation valve mountings. Hard to get hold of – and my stockpile is running low – they do the job very well. They come with a metal insert which the valve screws into, this has to be cut out with a hot knife.



    Improvised mast foot using a raft inflation valve mounting. Make sure you use the right epoxy!

    Because of the stress on the mast foot I am using a two-part epoxy (do check that it is ok with Royalex before using: I have known someone melt their boat using the wrong epoxy).
    Again the surface of the canoe and mast foot are sanded and prepared.



    The surface of the boat has been prepared for adhesion of the mast foot


    Mast foot in place and boat coming together.



    A fair bit of pressure is needed to keep the rubber mast foot in place until the epoxy cures. An upturned open tin is placed on the foot and either a large weight placed on top or, in this case, the car jack to the right of Maya is placed between upturned tin and seat.

    Adding A Kneeling Thwart

    The addition of a kneeling thwart requires the final bit of drilling. The spacing of the cords (above) was pre-planed to accommodate this. The kneeling thwart will get you into a different part of the canoe for better trim and allows good control when paddling solo.



    Drilling holes to fix a kneeling thwart.

    The only awkward thing is getting a roughly correct angle on the drill holes through the kneeling thwart. They are running at an angle, not right angles. I do it by eye.

    The strengthening thwart to the left will be taken out once every thing has been finished. The kneeling thwart provides the additional strengthening in its place.



    Attaching the kneeling thwart. The strengthening thwart to the left will be removed.

    WARNING: When paddling solo on the kneeling thwart your legs are in the area of the canoe which can deform upwards in a very bad pin on white water. This is also of true of using the bow seat in reverse. I strongly advise you – and whomever you paddle with – to carry folding saws as part of your rescue kit. I have never had to use mine but would feel uncomfortable without one.

    End Loop Considerations


    I like substantial end loop in case of a boat pin where I am going to need ropes and pulleys to remove it. This is 9mm climbing rope.



    Fitting an end loop of 9mm climbing rope.

    I want no risk of pulling the rope through the Royalex in an extreme situation. In the photo above, note the substantial spacing from the end of the canoe and from the end plate. When the end-loop is tied it should end up small enough that anyone would struggle to get a hand into it in a white water rescue. Getting a hand trapped whilst swimming down a rapid is very bad.

    The knot on the inside is a simple overhand knot and, in the photo, has yet to be tightened. Even with this knot, the rope has a breaking strain far greater than most throw lines.



    Tieing off inside, using an overhand knot (still to be fully tightened in the photo).



    The finished boat with all attachment points and related modifications.

    Fitting Out The Canoe – The Final Bits


    Now that all the attachment points and related modifications have been made, we can start adding the other components. A cord goes from the airbag, through the end rope to pull the bag into the end and will then be tied off to the carrying handle.



    Attaching the airbag.



    The airbag lashed into place. Should I want to paddle the canoe tandem I can use a smaller airbag and use the D-ring to hold it into the end.

    On white water I use airbags mainly to protect the canoe if I take a swim although they can give the boat enough floatation to make it possible to paddle even when swamped.
    Anyway, enough of outfitting! Now to putting the Prospector through its paces…

    Putting The Newly Outfitted Canoe Through Its Paces











    Sailing using split aluminium poles as mast and gaff.

    The sail is by Endless River. The paddle is being used as a leeboard to sail across the wind. This rig is nowhere near efficient enough to make real progress to windward but is a simple addition to the kit I normally carry.






    Final Approval

    And of course, seeing as she helped outfit the boat, Maya Rose wants a go…









    So, I hope this is of use to you. It brings together ways of outfitting I have accumulated and tested over the years. They work for me in the circumstances I am often working and travelling.

    Ray

    Blog originally published by www.Frontierbushcraft.com (the folk I do several expeditions and courses with).


    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

  2. #2
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    Great tutorial Ray.
    That's pretty much how mine is set up too although I use blocks rather than bags.
    Bootstrap
    There's no such thing as inclement weather - you're just incorrectly dressed

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    Very informative!
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    Great article, thanks Ray.
    ---------------
    'If human beings were shown what they're really like, they'd either kill one another as vermin, or hang themselves'.
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    Great article ray .
    Mine is set up similar

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    Ray,
    Great pics and advice.
    May I ask what your secret is to paddling such a big high sided boat on open water. I still struggle with my NC Prospector in strong wind even after a year and a half... I persevered for a while then just bought another boat. It was easier than finding 50kg of rocks whenever it was windy!
    Last edited by Landy; 13th-November-2013 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    I have the same sail and I can get it on a nice 'Close Reach', in my Snake River 12, using a fixed leeboard.

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    Very useful article Ray. Thanks for posting.
    btw - do they do royalex with feature strips

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    Good work to get that Prospector into that narrow eddy.

    Just a point of reassurance. No true epoxy will harm Royalex. There are glues around that contain solvents which can go through the vinyl top layer and soften the ABS. The solvent in Vynabond can soften ABS, but you were careful to use a thin application and let it dry. The only way I know to get epoxy to damage plastic is to put down a great thick gob that overheats as it sets up.

    The risk of getting legs trapped when the bottom of the boat is pushed up in a pin is the reason some of us use a foam pedestal rather than a kneeling thwart. But I admit, with any canoe having a beam over about 30 inches, it is hard to paddle from a pedestal because it is a long reach to heel the canoe.

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    Deleted. Problem with editing so will re do tonight.
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    Excellent article - it seems that this is the kind of flexibe outfitting most British canoeists who do a bit of river running seem to aspire to, so I'm sure a lot of people will find it useful.

    I like the variation in cord spacing, I probably wouldn't have thought of that.

    I keep thinking it might be a good idea to drill my Ocoee and stop using the P clips - they don't look very strong, mind you they have not snapped so far....

    How hard can it be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy View Post
    I still struggle with my NC Prospector in strong wind even after a year and a half... I persevered for a while then just bought another boat. It was easier than finding 50kg of rocks whenever it was windy!
    Novacraft don't give figures for optimum loading... but given that the (smaller) Bell and Swift Prospectors have an optimum load figure of ~350-600lbs... few of us can expect great performance if we take a boat of such proportions out solo and unladen.

    These boats are designed to be paddled flat (neutral trim), with the weight distributed evenly (paddler on each seat, gear in the middle) and running at something like the 3"-5" waterline... and lightly laden, they barely sink 2" into the drink... and become skittish: almost as happy being blown sideways down the lake as they are being forced forward, across the lake!

    The Novacraft Prospector is one of the more challenging 16' options in this regard: catches the wind a lot... and when lightly laden, the highly rockered hull offers little directional stability. It's arguably got more in common with Ray's Wenonah Rogue than his Wenonah Prospector: good WW river boat, but not a patch on (say) Novacraft's Cronje or Wenonah's Adirondack for lowland river / open water use.

    Best response? Perhaps find a tandem partner, get a couple of bent shaft paddles, and work hard!

    Beyond that, you've got a range of options... but you basically aim for a high stroke rate, ideally with aggressive power transfer, no "correction" phase, and a rapid "recovery"... using the wind to keep you heading in the right direction. If you're trimmed stern down, this can be driving the boat on the downwind side. If you can stick your pack well forward and change the trim (ideally without compromising your paddling stance and connectivity with the boat) then you can switch to the upwind side.

    Alternatively... fit a decent rig and use the wind...



    If you read The Story of the Clyde Canoe Club, you'll find this is a classic British solution to our weather conditions which are nothing like what you get in North America, and commonly including significant winds on a regular basis.

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    Few of us have anything like Ray's experience... and most who do appear to come up with pretty similar solutions. I would just highlight a couple of nice touches I've seen on other boats. Firstly, Ken Hughes'...



    First thing is the painter-come-swimtail. It's tied onto the endloop... then around the seat, and back to the endloop... and pulled tight. Then it's tied off... with a SHORT tail left over for grabbing in a hurry. This minimises the risk of loose / trailing lines... whilst allowing a long painter to be accessed very quickly.

    Second thing is the kneeling thwart position. Ray's positioning is more traditional, and suits his very relaxed style. Ken's thwart is positioned significantly closer to the yoke... which arguably has "performance" advantages if you paddle in Ken's rather more aggressive manner. Other Level 5 coaches (including Kim Bull and Tom Sibbald) have removed their yoke entirely, allowing them to position their thwart more centrally (as per modern solo canoes).

    I don't see a "right" answer here: outfitting has to be right for what each person wants to do, and how each person wants to paddle!

    Anyway... Keith Morris is another vastly experienced Level 5, and as I'm sure Ray would acknowledge, he's quite exceptionally experienced as an open water canoeist. His outfitting also warrants a little of anyone's time.

    The first thing to note is his use of side airbags: something I'd recommend everyone at least considers and finds out about... because if you need to do deepwater self rescue... this allows you to benefit from the airbags as you roll your canoe over.

    Here they are in his (huge) Old Town Penobscott:



    Note: end airbag offer NOTHING if you just roll a capsized boat upright. For a telling insight into how effective side airbags can be, see here:



    Note: we've since discovered far better side airbags... designed as rollers. Like these.

    Ps. For more on Keith's outfitting, including a great little video-tour of his boat, see here.
    Last edited by GregandGinaS; 14th-November-2013 at 12:18 PM.

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    Great thread Ray and Greg

    Greg how do you get the painter to deploy when you need it as a swim line ? I have mine under bungee cord on the end caps ... With a tail I can grab and swim with; this method is in Rays book ...

    Last edited by pipster3; 14th-November-2013 at 12:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipster3 View Post
    Greg how do you get the painter to deploy when you need it as a swim line ?
    Although you might use one piece of line for multiple functions, there's a difference between using a rope as a painter, as a swimtail, and as a swimline...
    • Painter - as appropriate for tying the boat up, for quick and dirty bits of lining, etc.
    • Swimtail - short grabline for use whilst swimming with your boat...
    • Swimline - usually a throwline, deployed only in the final seconds of a self-rescue situation...

    I'm happy to combine a painter and swimtail. Tie off most of the line as per Ken's boat... and leave a short length as a loose end, to tuck away down the side of the airbag or to secure under a deckline. The tail might be as little as 3' of line... which minimises the entanglement hazard when swimming with your boat... and shouldn't be long enough to get tangled by any swimtail from the other end of the boat.

    Many use a 15m or 20m throwline as a swimline. This stays in the thowbag during a swim, especially if you're going down rivers. You swim with the boat using the swimtail, not using the swimline.

    If you decide to swim for the bank and want to take a line, you pick your moment, and THEN release the line from the bag... right at the moment you set off for the bank. That way, you are NOT swimming down rapids with 20m of floating line adding to entanglement hazards (for yourself, and for anyone coming to your assistance).

    The throwline that's used as a swimline may ALSO serve for lining and tracking, or for rescue use: makes sense to have something pretty decent - whereas a painter can commonly be any old tat.

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    I also use throw lines as swim lines now I have started to paddle more WW and It make perfect sense but on slow rivers and open water the above works fine and gives you 3m of line to safely swim to dry land without 15/20m of line in the water with you ...

    I will rig up some short swim tails thanks for the heads up
    Last edited by pipster3; 14th-November-2013 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipster3 View Post
    I also use throw lines as swim lines now I have started to paddle more WW and It make perfect sense but on slow rivers and open water the above works fine and gives you 3m of line to safely swim to dry land without 15/20m of line in the water with you ...
    Yup - we need to start with what we want to do, then look at how we want to do it... and then outfit accordingly: as suits our INDIVIDUAL purposes

    Looking at the blog more carefully... Ray has a throwline attached to the stern as a swimline, but a swimtail / painter under a deckline up front...

    Quote Originally Posted by RayGoodwin View Post
    Some folk prefer to keep the deckplate "clean" (reduced snagging hazard) and use an attachment point inboard: can work.

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    Thanks Greg

    I have started to set my canoe up totally different now I'm learning to paddle WW and after having a swim on the Lower T on the Symposium weekend it was a struggle to deploy the throw bag swim line ; having a swim tail to hang onto would of made life a lot easier

    I will start to tie of the painters like Ken when on the bumpy stuff ... Learnt something today again thanks
    Last edited by pipster3; 14th-November-2013 at 01:18 PM.

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    Nice job Ray!

    Pipster3, If you look at my boat in Greg's picture you will see my painter tied off as he describes. This allows for access and use in a range of situations, but particularly around steep or difficult terrain. They are the same length as the boat and can be used for very simple lining, but are not long enough to give me time to get to the bank in the event that I might swim.

    So the other thing you will see it the red line tucked under the lacing for my air-bag. This is my swim-line. This is attached to the grab loop as well and is pushed down the side of the air bag to secure it. It is 20m. It becomes the down-stream line for tracking as well without any adjustment in position.

    Good paddling,

    Ken
    www.kenhughescourses.com kenhughescourses@aol.com

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    Pipster - something to consider (tip from Kelvin!) is instead of tying your swim line to the end loop on the outside, tie your end loop with a single knot inside the boat as in Rays photos and then tie the swimline to the part inside the boat leaving a small loop outside and minimising snag potential. If you have a decent carry handle or strong bag lashings you could also consider tying to these instead if the inside of the loop if it is too difficult to reach each time.

    Kayakers have been using swim tails for a long time, normally a piece of climbing tape tied to a grab handle with about a foot if clean tail to grab hold of - inifinitely safer than putting your hand through a loop/handle when bobbing through whitewater!

    I still haven't really decided my own line strategy - OC1 doesn't really need a painter (I just drag it up the bank behind me), and I tend to just hang onto the gunwale until something makes me want to get away from the boat (in which case I'll be ditching all lines and getting as far away as possible) so don't really need swim tails.
    In big water swim lines are more hazard than help (self deploy from the throwbag) on wee rivers I'll probably be next to the eddy and just stand up and push the boat into it, so I might tie a short loop to the end loop which will poke out on top of my airbag (really cramped under my bow plate) which I can tie an appropriate size throwline to when I need one - I usually carry a 7m and a 15m which covers most WW scenarios in Scotland. It would also give me somewhere handy to attach a throwline if I need to line a rapid - after minimal practice I have found that a single line works fine

    How hard can it be?

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    Thanks Ken

    Very helpful I will make a few adjustments I like that

    again thanks Jim I'm not sure about tying my swim line to this inside of the boats grab loop would that not put a lot of strain on the end caps when used in anger ? My Grab loop is tied off inside the same as Rays and my painter is tied on to it with a bowline knot on the outside ... Will start to tie off painter as ken I like that and rig up the down stream swim line most likely using a throw line tucked away with a short tail for easy deploy ...

    Thanks again gents

    Really helpfull thread




    Quote Originally Posted by smallboatsarebest View Post
    Nice job Ray!

    Pipster3, If you look at my boat in Greg's picture you will see my painter tied off as he describes. This allows for access and use in a range of situations, but particularly around steep or difficult terrain. They are the same length as the boat and can be used for very simple lining, but are not long enough to give me time to get to the bank in the event that I might swim.

    So the other thing you will see it the red line tucked under the lacing for my air-bag. This is my swim-line. This is attached to the grab loop as well and is pushed down the side of the air bag to secure it. It is 20m. It becomes the down-stream line for tracking as well without any adjustment in position.

    Good paddling,

    Ken
    www.kenhughescourses.com kenhughescourses@aol.com

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    Useful thread.

    My 2p, a run of 5mm shockcord laced front to back down the inside of the gunwale lacing provides flexible fixing for paddle handles, pole ends, and my bailer on WW and odds and ends on open water. (you can jam a waterproof/drink etc. under it).

    I was also advised a while back that tying the lacing off to the end loops so they are connected down the length also helps to transfer loads from the end loop down the gunwales in the event of a pin extraction - I've done this and I can see the theory but I'd be interested in more experienced opinions.

    Also having just stuck in a bigger front air bag, be interested in how people tie off the airbag lacing - mine is closed off with a reef knot with a couple of extra hitches on which I don't think is great... just thinking, letting a bit of air out and doing a simple overhand might be simpler.. although they can be fun to undo..

    A link to an earlier discussion regarding swimlines - there are several on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipster3 View Post
    Thanks Ken

    Very helpful I will make a few adjustments I like that

    again thanks Jim I'm not sure about tying my swim line to this inside of the boats grab loop would that not put a lot of strain on the end caps when used in anger ? My Grab loop is tied off inside the same as Rays and my painter is tied on to it with a bowline knot on the outside ... Will start to tie off painter as ken I like that and rig up the down stream swim line most likely using a throw line tucked away with a short tail for easy deploy ...

    Thanks again gents

    Really helpfull thread
    The swim-line will often double as a line you use to rescue the boat from a broach under mechanical advantage. Therefore, use a strong cord as Ray does, and do not attach it to the inside. There is no "snagging hazard" if you use my system down the air-bag, rather than a prominent throw-bag perched on the deck. Attaching to the inside will flip the boat if using the line for tracking in a good flow.

    Jim, I've read your post 5 times, but cannot visualise it; sorry.

    All the best,

    Ken
    www.kenhughescourses.com kenhughescourses@aol.com

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    Ray Goodwin? As in the fella who wrote the book and appears alongside bear "eats pooh" grylls in bushcraft fetes?

    If so, can I have one of your books please mister? I'll be yuh bestest friend ever.... you can tell all your mates you're going out wiv' me sister!!!
    Don't hate the player just hate the game!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUD' View Post

    If so, can I have one of your books please mister? I'll be yuh bestest friend ever.... you can tell all your mates you're going out wiv' me sister!!!
    How good looking is your sister? Failing all else cross my palm with silver.

    Ray
    Last edited by KeithD; 18th-November-2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: fix quote
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    She's as hairy as me....

    .....silver it is then. Who do I send the 50p to?
    Don't hate the player just hate the game!

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    Thanks for all the comments.

    I have my kneeling thwart a little further back for two reasons.

    1 I am normally carry my dog Dillie up front.
    2 I wish to live longer and not get trapped in my boat.

    If I wanted a kneeling thwart positioned where Ken does his I would remove the carrying thwart. I want to be able to get out quickly if necessary. I like to have the carrying thwart in my canoe for ease of shifting the thing around: some have got around this by using butterfly nuts to reattached a thwart for carrying.

    Some boats I have run shock cord down the side. Not used it for a few years but now not sure why? I am running a 4* Training Course this weekend so need sort boat and kit, might add shock cord (for non BCU types that is training leaders to operate on white water to grade 2 and open water in up to force 4 winds).

    Sometimes I have a second painter at the rear for quick lining, I set up for the type of trip I am doing. My painters are longer than the boat. Useful for clambering up a shore/rocks before tying off.

    I normally have a short tape as a swim tail at the rear of the boat. This is so I can assist a swimmer if really necessary. Not something I have had to do often in a canoe. Saves them grabbing the gunwale and destabilising me.

    I have tried most variants over the years and this is my current set up.

    I do like those side buoyancy tubes you linked to Greg. I really see the value of those when sailing. Do have a set of the ones you link to?

    Interesting and we each choose our own system adding ideas from other folk.

    Ray
    Last edited by RayGoodwin; 15th-November-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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    Ray - I've fitted some of those boat rollers instead of the airbags shown in the pic of my canoe above. I did some (open water, sailing mode) capsize recovery testing to compare the two and for my rather large battleship it makes perfect sense to have the larger bags. They are tough enough to not worry about abusing them by using them as "toestraps" for hiking out while sailing hard, or as rollers on a beach, as intended! Slight weight penalty though. You can see that they are a fair bit longer in this vid (good excuse to link to it again, as well!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by smallboatsarebest View Post

    Jim, I've read your post 5 times, but cannot visualise it; sorry.
    I think I made 2 points in one sentence which makes it confusing!

    - Make the end loops short and tied as a continuous loop (as per Ray's phot)
    - Tie the swimline to the continuous loop inside the boat so nothing hangs over the side (which can lead to accidental deployment)

    I guess it depends how your endplates are arranged, on the Ocoee (which were looking at when Kelvin suggested it) the wooden carry handle is positioned right under the inboard end of the plate so the plate is well protected and makes it virtually impossible to tie around the carry handle....

    It is just a suggestion, and may be more appropriate for small boats than big boats. I haven't actually re-rigged mine yet so I don't claim it works, just something we discussed which made sense for my boat. I hate working up in the bow/stern, I might have a go tonight and take photos, or not. Also because I use my throwlines for kayaking too I might add an intermediate loop so I don't need to deflate the bag to get in and tie/untie them each trip.....

    Kelvin also suggested just clipping a throwline to the bag lacing for a swim line but not if you have p-clips for the lacing!

    For lining or broach rescue it is easy enough to clip a line to the outside of the end loops if it works better there.
    To be honest I can't really envisage lining the Ocoee, I would just portage it.
    I did line the Piranha down Lava Falls but it is a 14 foot OC1 which probably had 20kg of kit in it given that the pump used a big 12v battery in a steel ammo tin and there was a big space between the back of the pedestal and the airbag that I chose to fill with kit in dry bags...

    I have added karrimat between my bags and the lacing and it seems that if I tuck the swimline throwbag under there it is much less likely to deploy by accident.

    I also have doubled up the rear lacing with shock cord to hold a split paddle, also loops of shockcord on the rear thwart to hold the shaft ends securely. That probably comes from my sea kayaking!

    For side airbags have a look at dinghy chandlers, some classes like the Heron use small side airbags under the seats where they don't have built in buoyancy tanks - I'm thinking the aftermost pair from a Heron would be ideal for a trad boat. These kind of bags have loops on to thread webbing under to make sure they stay where you put them!

    How hard can it be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    Ray - I've fitted some of those boat rollers instead of the airbags shown in the pic of my canoe above. I did some (open water, sailing mode) capsize recovery testing to compare the two and for my rather large battleship it makes perfect sense to have the larger bags. ]
    Very impressive bit of film! Really got to think hard how I adapt my bigger canoe for a full rig. Definitely will be using side airbags, you guys have convinced me, but what size?

    Ray
    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayGoodwin View Post
    Very impressive bit of film! Really got to think hard how I adapt my bigger canoe for a full rig. Definitely will be using side airbags, you guys have convinced me, but what size?

    Ray
    Good question:
    http://www.tridentuk.com/sailing/Cha...ancy_Bags.html
    Makes the array of canoe air bag sizes pale into insignificance!

    How hard can it be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimW View Post
    Good question:
    http://www.tridentuk.com/sailing/Cha...ancy_Bags.html
    Makes the array of canoe air bag sizes pale into insignificance!
    Noooooooooooo
    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

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    very interesting post Ray - thanks for taking the time to share yourknowledge and experience.

    Cheers
    If I could only paddle like a doggie oughta paddle

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    Our side bags are 10inch diameter and 46inch long. They have a buoyancy of 112lbs which is more than enough to float the canoe high on its side to empty most of the water out. There is also sufficient buoyancy to support most of your weight as you get back in, even if the gunwale dips under the water. They are Holts bags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Our side bags are 10inch diameter and 46inch long. They have a buoyancy of 112lbs which is more than enough to float the canoe high on its side to empty most of the water out. There is also sufficient buoyancy to support most of your weight as you get back in, even if the gunwale dips under the water. They are Holts bags.
    Thanks for that Dave. I will have to get a set when I rerig my Wenonah Rouge for sailing. I have a few plans in mind.

    Ray
    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

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    Great useful thread, sticky?
    '...you can led a horse to water but a pencil must be lead...' Stan Laurel

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimW View Post
    I think I made 2 points in one sentence which makes it confusing!

    - Make the end loops short and tied as a continuous loop (as per Ray's phot)
    - Tie the swimline to the continuous loop inside the boat so nothing hangs over the side (which can lead to accidental deployment)

    I guess it depends how your endplates are arranged, on the Ocoee (which were looking at when Kelvin suggested it) the wooden carry handle is positioned right under the inboard end of the plate so the plate is well protected and makes it virtually impossible to tie around the carry handle....

    It is just a suggestion, and may be more appropriate for small boats than big boats. I haven't actually re-rigged mine yet so I don't claim it works, just something we discussed which made sense for my boat. I hate working up in the bow/stern, I might have a go tonight and take photos, or not. Also because I use my throwlines for kayaking too I might add an intermediate loop so I don't need to deflate the bag to get in and tie/untie them each trip.....
    Since I started describing this I have taken some photos which might help make sense of the explanation - please remember this is just an option, it might not be suitable for everyone and I haven't even tested it in anger myself yet...
    I have gone with the intermediate tie in loop.

    The rope work inside the boat:
    Black = grab loop
    Green = bag end tie
    Purple = Tie in loop


    As you can see the grab handle is right up tight under the end plate on my Ocoee, the strap fits but a rope wouldn't.
    I have tied my intermediate tie in so that it will form a small loop above the bag strap and behind the end plate when the bag is blown up making it impossible to reach into the end to tie a throwline or painter in.


    And here it is with the bag blown up and a 7m throwline tied in to use as a painter/swim line;


    The advantage for me is that I can easily take the throwline off to dry it and for use when kayaking, but do away with having a loop of rope leading back over the bow waiting to snag or catch in the flow and self deploy the line.
    I still haven't actually used it as a swim line, but did use it as a painter on the Orchy when I wanted to get out and set up protection at a spot where there wasn't really space on the bank for the boat - I tied it off to a tree instead.

    Like I say, just sharing an alternative that might be of interest to WW canoeists, or not.

    How hard can it be?

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    Thanks so much for the detailed information and pictures of your outfitting. We have a Novacraft Prospector set up for tandem paddling. I have installed the lacing and will install D-rings when it gets a bit warmer.

    Pam

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayGoodwin View Post

    I have my kneeling thwart a little further back for two reasons.


    Ray
    Hi Ray,
    Can I ask you how far back you have put it away from the yoke? I noticed you drilled holes just before the spacing thwart. I did my Wenonah 16 (same as yours in go faster green :-) today but used the one hole given by the spacing thwart. Seems too far back even though I have a dog with me most times. Doesn't matter right now but will be important once I take off the plastic gunwhales and put on some ash? Guess your distance from end of yoke to front of KT is more then 17 inches? Many thanks for any solid measurements
    Last edited by Sundowner; 24th-February-2014 at 05:29 PM.

    "Pedal five hundred miles on a bicycle and you remain basically a bourgeois; paddle a hundred in a canoe and you are already a child of nature" - Pierre Trudeau

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
    Hi Ray,
    Can I ask you how far back you have put it away from the yoke? I noticed you drilled holes just before the spacing thwart. I did my Wenonah 16 (same as yours in go faster green :-) today but used the one hole given by the spacing thwart. Seems too far back even though I have a dog with me most times. Doesn't matter right now but will be important once I take off the plastic gunwhales and put on some ash? Guess your distance from end of yoke to front of KT is more then 17 inches? Many thanks for any solid measurements
    Yep replacing the spacing/strengthening thwart with the kneeling definitely feels too far back.

    I have just measured the distance from nearest bolt on the kneeling thwart to nearest bolt on the the carrying thwart and it is just under 47cm. Hope that helps.

    Ray
    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

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    Thought so. It's just that the WNN 16 has a different seat arrangement to all the other boats I had previously. Guess I have to shift it. Thanks for that Ray!

    "Pedal five hundred miles on a bicycle and you remain basically a bourgeois; paddle a hundred in a canoe and you are already a child of nature" - Pierre Trudeau

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    Great article - thanks Ray!

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    Love the clean lines in kens setup and boat in general.


    But a quick question re that setup.

    If I did that to my boat and then swam, not unlikely, taking the orange swimline with me as I went.

    When I reached the shore and needed to use MA on the orange rope to pull backwards, as the orange rope is attached to the black end rope, would that black loop move back over the stern putting a strain on the tied off yellow painter and potentially pulling out seat?
    Or is there enough stretch in the system to avoid exessive pull on seat
    Or if it got that far the boat is likely to be damaged anyway so who cares about the seat?
    Or is it just too hyperthetical to worry about and I should just go boating more?

    Obviously I don't plan on experimenting, but was just wondering?

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