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Thread: HELP rigging grumman sail

  1. #241
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    I feel your pain.

  2. #242
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    Thanks. I "googled" the problem and did not come up with anything. Just now I rebooted this laptop and see my images fine. Don't know...
    SB

  3. #243
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    Am I still the only one seeing my pictures here? I booted up the laptop first thing this morning and went to this site... and
    there are my pictures. I'll post a couple of the mast thwart and step to see if they come up...
    ... I see them.
    SB

    e more to see if they come up.


  4. #244
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    These two are visible. I have some suggestions but they will have to wait til I have a proper keyboard.

    Bob

  5. #245
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    Thanks, Bob. I am truly befuddled. I believe that I posted the others in exactly the same way as these two. That these two are visible is encouraging.
    SB

  6. #246
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    I'm going to try inserting the photos from post #235 of the canoe as it was when I bought it last fall.









    And here are a couple showing the initial polishing...





    From where I am the pictures appear to be inserted. If anyone can see them (or not) let me know so I'll either give up or continue re-inserting the remaining photos. Thanks and I apologize for the hassle.
    SB

  7. #247
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    I don't know anymore about the photo situation than I did before, so will let it go for now. On another subject I have a question. I'm trying to find a replacement lateen sail for this canoe. Sometime in the future I may well go to another mast and sail type (something which can be reefed), but unless something falls into my lap I think I'll use the mast I have through this summer and try to come up with a good alternative next year. I can use the tired old cotton sail I have for now, but who knows if it will hold up even for this one summer? I want to have a contingency plan in case the sail splits in a sudden gust of wind. I found a plain white sail of the right dimensions on ebay which is new and shipped for$90.00 and is made for a Super Snark or Sea Snark. It differs from my old sail in that mine attaches to the mast and boom with rope laced through grommets in the edge of the sail. The replacement has sleeves instead. I checked with the seller to be sure my mast and boom would fit and they won't since the sleeves are for a maximum of 1 and 1 eighth while my mast and sail would need at least 1 and 1 quarter diameter. If I were to fold over the sleeves and stitch them together then I could attach grommets and be good to go. It is a plan anyway. I'll keep looking, but so far I have not found a duplicate of the Grumman lateen sail.
    As recommended I recently purchased a copy of Todd Bradshaw's Canoe Rig: The Essence And The Art (great book) and fell in love with his bat sail... very cool and since it is similar to a gunter rig using a two part mast I could utilize the wooden section of the mast I have and make the rest. Sail area is 37 square feet which seems to me to be just about right for a 15 and a half foot canoe. And it can be reefed. Something to think about anyway. I've done a lot of stitching while teaching native crafts, making moccasins, mukluks, bags and all sorts of stuff, so am familiar with basic things a heavy duty sewing machine can do. Might make a nice project for next winter, but in the meantime I need an emergency plan for now. Anyone know of a source for a lateen sail to fit a Grumman mast?
    SB

  8. #248
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    I just came upon "intensity sails" who have relatively cheap sails.
    They may have sails for a Sunfish since that is such a large class of boats.
    A person who has one for a Laser said the cloth and stitching is good, but the sails are not certified to an "official" class standard - which you don't need anyway.

  9. #249
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    Hello SB,

    I am not particularly fond of the original Snark sails. Made of lightweight nylon, they were set on too-light spars and bagged excessively in high winds, but the boats were (are) kind of narrow and low and weren't much used in higher winds anyway, so everything kind of worked out. Canoes can be stiffer than the original Snark family.

    I haven't seen the newest replacements in the flesh....

    Masts are so easy to make that I'd not let using the current lateen one be a barrier. That said, you really ought to make a new mast step if you jump to a sail that is much shorter on the boom than that lateen. If you did that, the opti sail I modified in the current thread 'some sail rigs' might do you nicely for around $100.

    Alternately, I can send you a plan for a much earlier lateen of about 40 sq ft that is designed to be made of cotton, and you could make one using a good brand of cotton unbleached muslin. It uses only edge round with no broadseams. A tailor or dressmaker might sew it up if you don't want to. It is an easy sewing job with a domestic machine, but the panels SHOULD be joined with a French or flat felled seam:



    Sail edges could have grommets or be sleeved. Installing grommets on any of these sails is easy, but you really want to use good SPUR grommets and the tools to set those are usually $30-40.

    Personally, I would just sail and repair your current cotton sail into oblivion, unless it rips every time you touch it. The foot could use a bit of reinforcement. Repairs can be the same type of unbleached muslin. Enjoy it while it lasts and while you figure out exactly what really nice sail you want.

    Cotton has issues: it mildews quickly, it stretches and doesn't recover well, and ultimately it may rot. But it is easy to work with.

    Nylon was once popular for sails until Dacron came along. Balogh and some lateen makers still use it. It is bright and colorful though sun damages it, sometimes quickly. It's worst property is that it stretches, and stretches even more when wet--just the time you want it NOT to stretch. I made a crab claw/lateen out of it and it does work rather adequately, but I found it hard to control seam flatness (ie: puckering) in such soft stuff. (I bought a few yards of a half coated nylon for $1.29 a yard, nearly 5 feet wide, so my investment in the sail is trivial.)

    As far as I know, all the Grumman lateens were also nylon, but generally well made. They weren't that special. I wouldn't spend a lot of time chasing one down unless it was sold with a complete rig for a decent price.





    I plan about to post a few lateen items in that other thread.

    I read MarcUps recent post about Intensity Sails and I concur with him about those, but a Sunfish lateen is at least 75 sq feet and needs spars something like 13+ feet long, so it is perhaps too much for a 15 foot canoe.

    Here is a convenient link for folks searching for a sail to adapt:

    http://www.boat-links.com/Sails/

    My best,

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob Cavenagh; 25th-April-2017 at 07:05 PM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcUp View Post
    I just came upon "intensity sails" who have relatively cheap sails.
    They may have sails for a Sunfish since that is such a large class of boats.
    A person who has one for a Laser said the cloth and stitching is good, but the sails are not certified to an "official" class standard - which you don't need anyway.
    Thanks for the tip. Took a look and it appears to be a bigger sail, so I don't think it would fit.
    SB

  11. #251
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    Bob, Once again you have given me much to consider. The most immediate takeaway is that I will follow your suggestion to use the lateen sail I have for the time being, patching it if need be. And I'm also thinking that it might be a good idea to make that cotton lateen from the plans you mentioned. Doing so would buy some time and also give me experience working with cotton and grommets with a resulting sail that works. Jumping right into a bat wing sail project first off might not be so wise a move. If the bat wing is to turn out well then I need to know what I'm doing and give it the time it deserves. I like the look of unbleached muslin cotton. Nylon I will stay away from. Dacron sounds like a good choice and I am also wondering if cotton would be easier to work with. Longevity is not so much a concern when one is 72. The sail I have and am looking to replace is 64 years old so if I were to make both a lateen and a bat wing they should last me til my 136th birthday. I suspect I'll not only be done with sailing by then, but also done with everything else as well. Ha!
    SB

  12. #252
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    Hello SB,

    I will scan and post a couple of older lateen designs in a separate thread.

    Cotton is mostly obsolete for sails save for those made as period pieces. It IS easy enough to sew with a domestic machine; the biggest challenge is keeping the panel joints straight and true. It is fine for practice work, but some things don't translate to dacron.

    Dacron is MUCH nicer to sew as it arrives crisp and straight. Panel seams can be simple overlaps and most of the common cloths have seam allowance guides. Duckworks currently sells
    Challenge 3.8 Oz. Genoa for $8 per yard, 36 inches wide--or $8 for 9 sq ft.

    Unfortunately, I can't lay my hands on a fully developed plan for a 40-45 sq ft lateen in dacron, and the best dacron sails use broadseam in addition to edge round. Easy enough to design, I just don't have one available, and I don't have time to work one up right now. There IS a lateen guide in the appendix to the MAINSAILS booklet from Sailrite, but that is a more complicated sail than is necessary. You COULD use the plans designed for cotton and make nice looking sails that work but they might not be quite optimal.

    Bob

  13. #253
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    I'm once again going to try posting some photos of Sail Canoe #2. This time I'm using Google Chrome as the browser. The other times I was using Opera. Here are photos of the fifteen and a half foot square stern of unknown manufacture as it was when I bought it last fall for $200.00. If you can see the images please let me know and I'll post the other pictures of it's transformation into a sail canoe. Thanks. SB








  14. #254
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    I see them

    Sam

  15. #255
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    Thank you, Sam. Here are some more. Polishing away the old oxidation is somewhat tedious, but in my view is worth the effort. I used an orbital buffing machine and Mother's metal polish. I also made disposable pads for the buffer from old sweatshirt material, cutting out circles a bit larger than the machine and loosely stitched around the outer edge, then drew up the stitches tight and tied it off. The white paste turns black... cut the stitching and throw it away. Paper towels rubbed over the polished area removes the rest of the black from the canoe. Then do it again. And again. And...







    Assuming these also posted successfully, then we have the answer. To post photos through Google Photos I need to be using Google Chrome at the time. I can do that. I'll post some more now.
    SB

  16. #256
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  17. #257
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    And these final pictures were taken a week ago. In another week or two when the lake has warmed up a bit more I'll take her out for a first sail.
    SB












    And that's all there is. Spring is slow coming in northern Minnesota. There are still patches of snow in the forest (with new snow forecast tonight) and the lake feels like a refrigerator with the door wide open. Patience, old bear. While spring progresses and the canoe sits I am working again on Sail Canoe #1 which I sailed last summer and had just begun polishing. That one is the 17 foot Grumman double ender. I had wanted both canoes to be tweaked and ready for water by the time of the fishing opener which comes in two weeks. They'll be ready and so will I.
    SB

  18. #258

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    Hello SB,
    I hate to spoil your day, but the images of Post #256 and #257 are invisible to me.
    regards Bob

  19. #259
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    Same here...

  20. #260
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    Sigh... well, it's back to the drawing board. I'd like to know if there's something besides Google Photo and Photobucket that actually works. I long for Picasa...
    SB

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    I use flickr.com - not had any problems . . . . .yet!

    Sam

  22. #262
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    Thanks Sam, I downloaded Flickr and haven't yet figured out how to use it. Also am trying Imgbb and will try posting a photo. If anyone can see this I'll be amazed...

    I see it didn't work.
    SB

  23. #263
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    Hello to all...
    After some communication with Silverbear and Bob Cavenagh, I thought I'd post a video of some improvements to the Grumman gunter sail arrangement. Some time ago I modified the very basic gunter rig to be able to reef the sail and have more control of trim by eliminating the boom sleeve. Thus, the main is now loose footed and I can achieve far better tuning in light airs as well as safety in higher winds.

    Along with those improvements, I have recently completed the installation of lazy jacks, which also serve as a topping lift. The gunter rig is an evolution of the gaff rig, and shares it's short mast. With the gunter having a short mast, there is no real practical way to install a topping lift except to run it along side the sail. At the same time, the gunter can be a handful to wrestle when lowering the sail to stow - especially in windy conditions just prior to landing. So, by installing two lines for a topping lift, the result is a lazy jack arrangement.

    In this installation, I simplified the rig to only require a static line system with no blocks. Tensioning is achieved by simply sliding a taut line hitch knot to keep the boom in its aloft position while either reefing or lowering the sail. When under way, I just slide the knot down to the boom to slacken the lines so there is no printing on the lee side of the sail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po9C1IR5c80&t=11s
    Last edited by OutnBacker; 11th-June-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  24. #264
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    Thanks for sharing this. Along with setting up reef points this is on my list of must-do improvements to the Gunter rig this summer. So much to learn. I was not familiar with the taught line hitch knot so googled it and now I'm teaching myself this handy and useful knot. If boy scouts can learn this then so can I. I also did not know what dog ears were for attaching the lazy jack lines to the mast. These are just stainless steel rings, are they not? And they would be attached to the aluminum mast... with stainless steel eye straps, is that right? How are these lines attached to the boom... would a single dog ear suffice? I also plan to do away with the boom sleeve and leave the foot loose (and fancy free). All of these nautical terms are interesting, mate. Thank ye.
    SB

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    Hello SB,
    The taut line hitch is plenty strong for such light applications as this, but it's probably not a purely marine type of knot. I just use it because it works. Certain cheaper lines made with slippery materials might not hold as well. My lines are just nylon poly stuff you might keep in your camp kit. it seems grabby enough to hold friction.

    Dog ears are a term I have heard all my life to describe the mast tang fittings at the top end of the shrouds on a standing rigged mast, the bottom end terminating at the turnbuckles. They look like dog ears and hang down with a hole for the upper end of the shroud to be attached with a cable thimble or something. It's just a strip of metal bent at an angle to sort of match the angle of the shrouds.

    Sorry to confuse you because I did report that I was tying the jacklines off at the mast with a pad eye. That no longer applies and I have switched to the dog ears as they help to keep the lines separated better on either side of the sail. Plus, I already had them installed in planning for shrouds, which may be the next thing I do. I'll send a pic in your e-mail.

    John

  26. #266
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    I confuse easily. Thank you for the clarification.
    SB

  27. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OutnBacker View Post
    Hello SB,
    The taut line hitch is plenty strong for such light applications as this, but it's probably not a purely marine type of knot. I just use it because it works. Certain cheaper lines made with slippery materials might not hold as well. My lines are just nylon poly stuff you might keep in your camp kit. it seems grabby enough to hold friction.

    Dog ears are a term I have heard all my life to describe the mast tang fittings at the top end of the shrouds on a standing rigged mast, the bottom end terminating at the turnbuckles. They look like dog ears and hang down with a hole for the upper end of the shroud to be attached with a cable thimble or something. It's just a strip of metal bent at an angle to sort of match the angle of the shrouds.

    Sorry to confuse you because I did report that I was tying the jacklines off at the mast with a pad eye. That no longer applies and I have switched to the dog ears as they help to keep the lines separated better on either side of the sail. Plus, I already had them installed in planning for shrouds, which may be the next thing I do. I'll send a pic in your e-mail.

    John

    I noticed you've started running your Gunter rig loose footed, but I haven't been able to find any information as to why or the pros or cons on this particular rig. I'd appreciate any insight!


    I've been working setting up my own g-17 with the gunter rig, and after finally getting it out on the water I really have to agree that this thing really needs a set a reef in it. I've never done such a thing before, how much dacron (which weight??) do you recommend for the project?

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by J AndHisCanoe View Post
    I noticed you've started running your Gunter rig loose footed, but I haven't been able to find any information as to why or the pros or cons on this particular rig. I'd appreciate any insight!


    I've been working setting up my own g-17 with the gunter rig, and after finally getting it out on the water I really have to agree that this thing really needs a set a reef in it. I've never done such a thing before, how much dacron (which weight??) do you recommend for the project?
    Assuming here that you already are familiar with a sliding gunter setup, because you'll need to be in order to get the reef to work smartly, the gunter being an evolutionary form off the old gaff rig. It shares some aspects of spar management. You'll also benefit from the installation of the topping lift system discussed above to keep the boom static as you lower the yard when reefing.

    As to what weight of material? I haven't a clue. I just bought a roll of dacron sticky tape, 3" wide, and glued them on each side of the sail. Two patches thickness per side. Then, punch and grommet. That's pretty much it. For the corners, I just ran a bunch of tape strips in a triangle pattern several layers thick, then grommets again. No issues at all. It's not pretty but it seems plenty strong, and it has been sorely tested many times. The reef line has to set lower than the corner grommets to avoid stressing the grommets in the field, so you might read up on that. A couple inches is what I did. The grommets in the field should not pull the sail body tight. Just the corners grommets do that.

    There is a very knowledgeable group here and I'm sure they can offer technicals. Fellow named Bob Cavenagh monitors this thread and he has a lot of info on all things Grumman.

    As to mod'ing the sail for loose footed sailing, I can only point to generic information on sail trim in various wind conditions. Obviously, some of that has to do with very light airs and how to capture maximum draft. Bagging the sail helps a lot. It is definitely something I recommend - especially in a small boat. With the large area of the Gunter, you can really gain performance when the wind is under 5mph. Not a thrill ride, but it beats plugging along, waiting for something to happen. In many cases, I can double my speed by adjusting the foot tension. That means the difference between 1.5 and perhaps 2.5 or 3 mph. Conversely, in higher winds, tensioning the foot flattens the bottom of the sail and reduces the pressure on the fabric. I'm not sure I understand the science, but I believe, perhaps wrongly, that bagging the sail for more curvature speeds up the air across the surface when the wind is light, yielding more boat speed when you need it. Flattening the sail reduces the wind speed and "lift" so the sail does not "hold" as much pressure when the wind is stronger. I hope someone will come along a and correct me if this is wrong.

    Somewhere in this discussion is a description of how I folded the boom sock over and sewed it down to form the foot. A boom sock does not allow much adjustment, so I eliminated it. Adjusting the foot is done in the typical way by simply running a line from the clew grommet back to the boom end, through a small block, then fwd along the boom to a jam cleat.

    Getting top performance from one of these Grumman gunter rigs is possible and not expensive. Most of my hardware is typical non marine stuff, and it works well. While I'm not a huge fan of the gunter because it requires more handling, it's what I've got. So, I just work with it. In fact I have two. I do not recommend the gunter for a canoe that is not stabilized, thus I run a trimaran setup. My opinion is that the 65ft gunter is too much sail for a canoe in anything but the lightest conditions. Otherwise, it's real twitch fest. With outriggers, it's a Porsche.

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by J AndHisCanoe View Post
    I noticed you've started running your Gunter rig loose footed, but I haven't been able to find any information as to why or the pros or cons on this particular rig. I'd appreciate any insight!


    I've been working setting up my own g-17 with the gunter rig, and after finally getting it out on the water I really have to agree that this thing really needs a set a reef in it. I've never done such a thing before, how much dacron (which weight??) do you recommend for the project?

    Outnbacker gave a good answer, so just a detail: Most early Grumman gunter sails had a sleeved foot. Relatively late in the game they removed the sleeve and set the sail up loose-footed. They did place a single grommet in the middle of the foot, which I beleive was for a loose bit of line to help control the sail while hoisting and lowering; it can also limit (VERY crudely) the amount of belly in the foot area, but that seems like a bad idea.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cavenagh View Post
    Outnbacker gave a good answer, so just a detail: Most early Grumman gunter sails had a sleeved foot. Relatively late in the game they removed the sleeve and set the sail up loose-footed. They did place a single grommet in the middle of the foot, which I beleive was for a loose bit of line to help control the sail while hoisting and lowering; it can also limit (VERY crudely) the amount of belly in the foot area, but that seems like a bad idea.

    Bob
    Hi Bob,
    Yeah, that grommet in the middle of the foot is kind of superfluous, IMO. Although, it might be handy to have in the case of the ten foot long open foot on the gunter. I might see a sailor fastening a line around that point at times because even pulling with all my strength, the foot never gets as real tight. There's always about 4-5 inches of curvature. However, If my sail is drawn tight as can be, I can assure you that I'm making good time and quite happy.

  31. Default

    Thank you!

    I must have missed the part where you talked about the foot of the sail earlier, I thought I had read all of it (the missing photobucket images really are a pain in the ass, but I know that's not the fault of anyone here). Looks like I'm due to a re-read through.


    I don't have outriggers yet, but I'm very interested in replicating what OutnBacker's done (I've watched all the videos and seen all of the photos). If only I can get over my apprehension of fiberglass..... I've never worked with the stuff before, it seems a it expensive... but of everything I've seen out there it's probably the best option. It's certainly one of the best documented outrigger builds I've seen, thanks for that!


    Before this thing I never knew there was such a thing as too much wind to sail in. First time I tried to take it out, I couldn't even raise the sail without a gust (winds W 12mph, gusts SW 20mph) filling it out and tossing the boom out into a reach which would bind the gaff/upper-spar against the mast (they really do like to stick together) and then my halyard (apparently too small of a diameter) would fall out of the sheave and jam since it was being pulled at an angle. After having to take the mast down 3-4 times to resolve that I had to throw in the towel.... My second (and most recent) attempt I did managed to actually get it sailing which was pretty damn thrilling! But it was pretty hairy that day also with winds in excess of 15mph, we only dipped the gunnel once though - which was pretty "exciting..." I think the leeboard was too far back though, couldn't get the thing to tack across the wind.


    Every Time I'd start to come about with rudder hard over, the sail would come in flapping centered over the boat like it should but then instead of carrying across the wind we would just get blown back to where we started from, seemed like the bow never would could go all the way across the wind. Not sure if this was the result of my status as a novice helmsman.... or too much wind, or the leeboard position (of which I only have 1). The leeboard was on the windward side, but that shouldn't have mattered since we were sailing flat. I had the leeboard thwart (standard grumman) about 3 inches in front of the center thwart. My current thinking is to move it to 6-8 inches fore of the center thwart, and to start looking for something to shape into a second leeboard. The wind had been blowing us 5-10 degrees off of where we were pointing all day long. I had some limited success just going through the turn through it backwards (3 rights instead of a left, gibing?), but that was much harder to control - going straight down wind even briefly had us going crazy fast.


    I didn't think about using dacron tape, if its worked out well for you I guess I'll just go that route. I'd read Todd Bradshaw's book, and I have a copy of The Sailmaker's Apprentice both of which lead me to think that adding reefs required a bit more effort than that, but if it's worked for you I'll go the easy route for sure. It is a canoe not a yacht after all....


    I'd like to try running the sail loose footed my self, for now though I hardly need this thing to be more efficient and powerful....


    When I acquired my sail I noticed that it has 3 pockets where a batten might go, but maybe they are just reinforcements or for air pockets to form. If mine came with battens they are apparently long long gone though.
    Last edited by J AndHisCanoe; 30th-October-2017 at 04:27 PM.

  32. #272
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    My apologies. I have lost track of where that discussion took place. There is a lot of material here about my setup, it seems. I guess it just builds up over time.

    About your eecent experiences: I hope Bob is some where cloes by, as he has much to say about leeboard placement vis a vis Grumman gunter rigs. In my case, there is the forward outrigger strut that slightly blocks the ideal board position, so mine are a bit behind the Center of Effort of the gunter. If I were you, I'd slide the board fwd until the leading edge is 28" behind the mast. Mine are about 32" so I have to make sure to never slam the rudder hard over in a tacking turn. If I forget, the rudder will act as a drogue and basically slow the boat too much. Inertia is bled off and I will stall once in a while. A 45 degree rudder angle is just right for gliding through turns into the wind. I still can stall, but it's usually as a result of the jib not being crewed properly as it comes about.

    About the dacron patch tape. I have had a sewing machine since doing that, and now I sew most things the traditional way, but yes, the tape has held under some vicious conditions for going on three years now. Most especially at Baker Lake this past August. What a blow that day! If it werent for the O'riggers, I would have swamped for sure.

    Just to clarify on the Loose Footed subject: In releasing tension along the foot in light airs, you gain efficiency and speed. Tightening the foot in higher winds reduces efficiency, but lessens pressure on your sail by slowing down the velocity of the wind moving along its surface. Power is a different thing. With the gunter at 65 sq. ft. any sail trim will produce a lot of power. That's why I made the o'riggers; to able to use that power and not have to be concerned with taking a dunking.

    Working with fiberglass has a learning curve that is steeper for some than others. I you are generally a handy guy, the curve is not too bad. My prior knowledge was quite rudimentary, but I can make up a set of very presentable pontoons pretty fast now. Expense is relative to the quality of results. There is no current commercial product on the market that can match what I've done for the price and, dare I say, they look great, too. Epoxy is the most expensive part of the project. My new 10 footers cost me about $220 in goop and another $90 in glass cloth. It took a bolt 3 ft wide and 80ft long to make mine, which have a lot of multiple layers at the usual vulnerable areas. Three layers minimum, graduating up to ten layers. Still they only weigh 17lbs - well below the 20 I thought they would weigh.

    A tip on the reluctance of the boom jaws to slide up and down the mast easily: get rid of them. I use a strap of vinyl cut from a RubberMaid storage tub for the sliding jaw on the upper yard. Plenty tough and it slides better than aluminum on aluminum. I'll try to post a drawing of what it looks like....

  33. #273
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA, shores of Puget Sound
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    Sorry, no can do. Send me a PM and I'll give you my E-mail address. Much simpler.

  34. Default

    Will do!



    If I forget, the rudder will act as a drogue and basically slow the boat too much. Inertia is bled off and I will stall once in a while. A 45 degree rudder angle is just right for gliding through turns into the wind.
    Interesting, I hadn't really considered that turninging too hard would bleed off too much momentum- makes sense though. I was using the original pull-pull ropes, I imagine it is much easier to gauge the actual rudder position with a push/pull tiller. Yet another reason to move forward with that modification before I take it out again. I didn't have the ropes setup correctly either, I'd never seen how they are supposed to be rigged up and just left the ropes loose.

    I found an explanation recently over on woodenboats (forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?74131-Steering-Tiller-vs-Push-pull-vs-Rope)

    I'm a little tempted to try setting it up correctly, with the ropes pulled forward a bit It could be easier to see where things are and I could use one hand instead of alternating left and right (which was neigh impossible to pull off correctly). Originally I had repurposed the 2 block pulleys that came with the rudder ropes for other purposes on the rig, but I've bought a few more from sailrite.com -first place that didn't give me sticker shock on "marine" pulleys, better quality than hardware store basics too... Might be worth setting it up just once...


    Still, it seems almost everyone goes with a push pull stick tiller and I imagine there are good reasons for that. I have some light aluminum tubing I think I'll make use for the purpose (deconstructed crutch arm).
    Last edited by J AndHisCanoe; 31st-October-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  35. #275
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Eagles Nest Lakes, Ely, Northeastern Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    89

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    Good discussion going here. Anyone figured out how to post photos again? They sure help in clarifying things. Welcome to the forum, J.
    SB

  36. #276
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA, shores of Puget Sound
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverbear View Post
    Good discussion going here. Anyone figured out how to post photos again? They sure help in clarifying things. Welcome to the forum, J.
    SB

    Hey there, Walt. You have to post them on a photo hosting site, then copy them to this forum. But i haven't figured out how to do it without a forty line address to click on in order to open them. Just not smart, I guess.

  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OutnBacker View Post
    Hey there, Walt. You have to post them on a photo hosting site, then copy them to this forum. But i haven't figured out how to do it without a forty line address to click on in order to open them. Just not smart, I guess.

    If its like most other forums I've used in the past if you wrap the long link with tags it will make the image appear inline.

    Like this: [img]LONG_LINK[/img]

    Which is how I made this:

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sl...=w1707-h585-no

    Look like this:


  38. #278
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA, shores of Puget Sound
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Nice pic, but I have no idea what you're talking about. It's okay, though. I really don't spend that much time on this forum anymore. There is another that I use where I can just grab it off my computer and they come out just fine, in either thumbnail or full size form. I did have pictures here, but I think they all went the way of Photo#uckit.

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