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Thread: "You never change things by fighting the existing reality"

  1. #1
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    Default "You never change things by fighting the existing reality"

    "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
    To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
    Richard Buckminster Fuller"

    The new model is that Access to Rivers is the anglers' and landowners' problem, not ours.

    There is no practical way they can stop us paddling on our beautiful English rivers. We cause no damage, leave no trace and have no harmful effect on fishing... assuming we behave responsibly...

    We have no problem at all with them owning the river bank and fishing from it.

    The problem is theirs, not ours. They can solve it by combining with us to get the law changed to adopt the Scottish model or some mutually agreed variant. Otherwise they can rant from the river bank, put up dopey signs, or commit crimes. Every other country in the world would regard the actions of the minority of anglers who object, as selfish and absurd.

    The rest of us, canoeists, swimmers, anglers, can get on with peacefully sharing the river, whether or not the law is changed.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  2. #2
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    Hear, hear!
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  3. #3
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    Nobody's ever told me I'm not allowed. I'll just keep paddling.

    Great advice, especially appropriate for me at work so thank you.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    The new model is that Access to Rivers is the anglers' and landowners' problem, not ours.
    Access to Rivers is a problem. Access on Rivers is not a problem. IMO, an important distinction that is all too often confused.

  5. #5
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    We go where ever we want to go and on any river we please.
    Only ever had any bother on the river Wear. That was approx18 months to 2 years ago and still ongoing.
    I still paddle the River Wear from time to time.
    Access to the river never across private land usally from a public footpath.
    Having said that a fishing club still try it on by threating me with the Police.

    And still I am waiting for them..Maybe next time then......
    In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Duct tape fixes everything

  6. #6
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    They can call the police. The police will not come. They have no interest because no crime is being committed. You should call the police if you are threatened in any way - that is a crime. Stay calm, don't descend to their level and watch the anglers, self appointed bailiffs or land owners, scurry away as you dial 999. Report the incident here, and on the CE access web site.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  7. #7
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    Very good sound advice.
    In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Duct tape fixes everything

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Report the incident here, and on the CE access web site.
    and on the Access Map as an Incident Report here
    Keith

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  10. #10
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    Thanks for the link.

    Just read the canoeing and angling codes. Fine as far as they go, but how many people were aware of this consultation process, and how many anglers and canoeists have agreed or will agree to these codes once implemented?

    The problem is that in order to work agreements and codes have to be agreed by all.

  11. #11
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    It's interesting that the fishing code contains this
    Every angler fishing in England and Wales requires a rod licence to fish and permission from the owner of the stretch of river, lake, reservoir or canal. It is very important that you respect the rules of local clubs and any byelaws in force in the area.

    but the canoe code has no similar requirement.

    Sam


  12. #12
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    What a sensible thread! just carry on paddling, and if anyone complains, just smile and ignore them (and any threats, unless violence is threatened, then call the police).

    They'll go home angry, we'll go home happy!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tykey View Post
    They'll go home angry, ....
    In the long term it's not constructive to send them home angry. Some anglers will come to the river angry and, despite our best efforts, may go home in the same condition but I'd like to think we can increasingly send anglers home with a positive personal experience of canoeists as pleasant and co-operative people who wish to peacefully enjoy our pastime whilst minimising our impact on the environment and others.
    Keith

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by samB View Post
    It's interesting that the fishing code contains this
    Every angler fishing in England and Wales requires a rod licence to fish and permission from the owner of the stretch of river, lake, reservoir or canal. It is very important that you respect the rules of local clubs and any byelaws in force in the area.

    but the canoe code has no similar requirement.

    Sam

    Sam
    This is a red herring.

    Canoeing on a river leaves no trace or use any significant resources... if you access from a public place, there is absolutely no effect on any land owner or anyone else. Whose permission do you seek?

    Canoeists, like all citizens, are required to respect any byelaws in force. This does not require any special 'code'.

    The 'access restriction' issue is solely a problem for the minority of anglers and land owners who choose to behave in a selfish and irresponsible way.

    The BCU as the sport's governing body publishes a code of responsible environmental behaviour, see here
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Sam
    This is a red herring.

    Canoeing on a river leaves no trace or use any significant resources... if you access from a public place, there is absolutely no effect on any land owner or anyone else. Whose permission do you seek?

    Canoeists, like all citizens, are required to respect any byelaws in force. This does not require any special 'code'.

    The 'access restriction' issue is solely a problem for the minority of anglers and land owners who choose to behave in a selfish and irresponsible way.

    The BCU as the sport's governing body publishes a code of responsible environmental behaviour, see here
    Just the point I was making: By its ommision, The Countryside council for Wales is reinforcing the point that we don't need permission from the landowners!
    Sam

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