Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 60 of 82

Thread: Brian's sailing canoe conversion

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default Brian's sailing canoe conversion

    I have been discussing this in the introductions thread but thought I should move it to it's rightful place.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default



    So That is the story in pics. I have just finished sewing up the sails. I managed to destroy my sewing machine by trying to load too thick a thread in it. So repairs to the sewing machine of about 70 pounds has so far been the biggest expense!

    Currently I am trying to work out how to proceed with the outriggers. I am using a developed plywood technique to do them. Single chine opened out really wide and then form the keel with thickened epoxy then draw the deck plan up with drawstrings. I am now thinking to make a deck template that I can slide the hulls into so I can work on the insides without the strings being in the way. Then I can install bulkheads and glass the inside with chopmat, then glue on wales and deck etc. I am torn between having the bulkheads protrude in some way to enable attachment to the beam or just attaching the beam to the gunwales like the SD ones. I am concerned about the tracking issues. Do the outriggers need to be adjustable in a directional fashion to ensure they track with the leeboard or is it not crucial?

    The sails I made after watching the sail making series on youtube. I just had to do quite a bit of fiddling to get the shape right. It is very easy to over do it. I put about 15mm of broadseaming into the sail at first but it looked more like a shopping bag than a sail. I ended up with about 8mm going down to nothing at the top panels and it is still quite extreme in shape but I think quite usable. It is pretty hard to keep it accurate on such a small sail. I am now needing to have eyes fitted somewhere like north sails... who will take me for all I am worth... or work out a way to sew eyes into the sail, or find a place that can sell me some eyes and the tools to fit them. You can find them in hardware stores but not stainless and they will rust in no time.

    I think I will probably end up making sails again based on my new found experience they should be better than the first attempt. The pic of the canoe with the sail is only a basic fitting to see how it all looked. Quite promising I think. Don't you?

    I made the boom from an old plastic oar lock and a piece of mahogany, but it seems like it is too heavily constructed. The canoe itself weighs about 2 tons so I need to keep weight down to a minimum. I will either get some aluminum pipe for the sprit and the boom or else I am thinking of using bamboo. The mast is an old cut down windsurfer mast. Really light and strong and stiff but the downside is it is very difficult to attach things to it. You cannot pop rivit into this stuff. It gust makes a nasty crunching noise and leaves you with the feeling that that just did not work so well....

    So in short... I need advice on the sail eyes and the next steps on the outriggers. If anyone has anything to offer, I am all ears...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    1,740

    Default

    Welcome to the sailing section Brian. I can't offer much in the way of technical advice as I just cheat and buy my bits from Solway Dory but I look forward to seeing your progress with the canoe. It's all looking good so far.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Exmouth, Devon, England
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    I miss Cape Town sometimes. Summer here in England is so short. sigh.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    Hi Can'toe

    Love your sail and outriggers!

    For sail design, have a look at this free sailcut prog.

    We use carpet tape to hold the panels in line while we sew them together. We are using the brass hammer in eyelets and havent had any fail yet...This is Little Idea making a sail for the dinghy he built.

    To finish your outriggers, how about cutting 4 pieces of 10 mm ply to make brackets you can fix tothe body of your outrigger, then just microfibre and tape in a flat lid. Here is the link to the last ones we made in my blog. You will have to use the next button on the bottom of the pages to get through the rest of the build. Its mixed with a Mirror Dinghy rebuild and something else.

    Im not saying these are the only way to make these things, or even the best way, only that htey might give you some Ideas.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Thanks No Idea... Your son should check out this guys collection of videos on sailmaking on you tube. Pretty good stuff! He is making a jib but you can apply the info to any sail with a few mods here and there..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgbI9iGAW14

    I enjoyed reading your blog. Very amusing

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    There has been some progress. I managed to make most of the rudder. Just need to figure out how to attach the brackets for the pintels to fit into.

    I also did a bit of experimenting with the canoe in the pool to see how much of a load it can handle. I had 150Kg of water in there and with the outriggers on I could still get in there and it felt pretty stable. Very stable with the outriggers on (old first attempt outriggers that is) with the outriggers off and the leeboard up it is a total mess. extremely precarious! Having the leeboard down makes a huge difference to the stability of a canoe! Amazing really. It is like a big roll movement brake.

    Still waiting for more ideas on how to progress with the outriggers. I have now made a deck template which holds the deck in a drawn up state without all the strings in the way. I am thinking of having 2 bulkheads, filleting them in and then glassing it all up on the inside then glueing on a 8mm ply deck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    My decks are 6mm.

    I laid a sheet of ply on the bench, put the rigger on upside down, drew round it, then drew another line 6 mm inside and cut to it.

    I varnished the insides and resin coated the edges of the lid.




    I pushed the lid in and microfibred it in.



    The wifes boyfriends one moved a little, so we glass taped around the top to make sure it wouldnt come out.

    His lid is drilled both ends for small rubber bungs so you can drain them if they take on any water.

    His mounting brackets are screwed and glued to the outsides of the sides of his outrigger. They are cut out of 10 mm ply.



    Both ours have one upright V shaped bulkhead in the middle so that we have two separate tanks, in case we prang them.


    Here is the arm attachments we used...





    Again...This is how we did ours. Others use different methods.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    328

    Default

    A good rule for amas / outrigger floats on sailing canoes is that they should either be large enough to effectively rule out the possibility of a capsize, or small enough to allow capsize recovery of a completely inverted boat. Anything in between risks not being able to self recover the boat after a capsize. Mine, made by Solway Dory, are the latter variety and have about 40 lbs of buoyancy. The 8 ft beam is swept up each side so the amas 'fly' about 2 1/2 ft above the water when the canoe is on an even keel. This means the canoe sails and paddles like a monohull, yet when the boat heels, righting moment comes from the 'form stability' of the hull added to the buoyancy of the amas. Other configurations are no doubt possible but the small ama / gullwinged beam set up has proven itself on several sailing canoe expeditions in sometimes rough / windy British coastal waters over the last few years.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    Mine is big enough that it 'shouldnt' tip over.

    However, my arms are simply strapped across the canoe, rather than bolted down.

    If I do manage to tip it over, I can push the outrigger up under the side of the canoe so I can right it again.



    I keep meaning to build two new arms that pivot so that when retracted, the arms will lie along the side of the canoe, making it 75 cm wide.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Some more progress... got the sails eyes installed today. Got it done at my factory neighbor who does printing of banners but he has a eyelet installer for the banners. They are brass but i figure they should be fine for the small sail. They where really cheap. Cost me 5 pounds for the lot.

    On the issue of not capsizing and the outriggers size etc etc. I think that I would like to not capsize if at all possible. I have a reasonable amount of sailing experience in finns and lasers and sailed optimists as a kid. I have not capsized my finn for ages. I just sheet out or head upwind if I get in trouble. But the canoe may be different!



    This is a pic of the canoe in the reservoir. Its got 75 liters of water in the bilges and another 75 in the containers so that's 150kg's. Then I could still get in there and perform some acrobatics with the outriggers on and the leeboard down. I tested it out and removed the outriggers by unlashing them and it was still ok with the leeboard down BUT when i raised the leeboard.... oh boy things got really out of hand with so much weight on board! I nearly capsized in the pool!

    So I thought that was a good experiment as it was 225kg onboard and it still floated and was very stable with the outriggers. Once I have the propper outriggers with lids on I will put it in again and see how easy it is to roll over with them in place.

    I figure on carrying about 160kg. Son Jude and I are in the region of 110kg then I figure on 25kg of fresh water and a further 20kg of food and camping gear. It's going to be interesting getting all the stuff on board with flotation and cooler box in place! I was thinking If I use foam and epoxy resin I could build cooler boxes into the boat and they could double as flotation. Also closing off the small decked areas at the end with foam and then filling the space with construction foam afterwards for end flotation. I also had another idea... just net the ends off and put something I can blow up in there like a car inner tube or something like that.

    While looking at the rig and contemplating the rudder (which I have now mostly built) I did have a weird idea of making the outriggers turn to control the direction of the boat rather than have a rudder. Has anybody ever done something like this? ama steering???

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    grange over sands, cumbria
    Posts
    930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Can'toe View Post
    While looking at the rig and contemplating the rudder (which I have now mostly built) I did have a weird idea of making the outriggers turn to control the direction of the boat rather than have a rudder. Has anybody ever done something like this? ama steering???
    Not seen anyone try this but i cannot imagine it would work. The rudder will though.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I wasn't thinking of trying.... just like a passing thought. It would be tough to even get the amas steering. This does actually remind me of something I wanted to ask... Is it necessary to have some amount of adjustment in the ama angle? Toe in or toe out kind of thing. My thinking is that they should be parallel to the direction of movement but I would not know...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    1,740

    Default

    I think they'd need to be parallel to the direction of movement as you say.
    Interestingly one OCSG member forgot his outrigger spars at the Ullswater meet last summer. Being a resourceful chap he recycled some scrap wood that he liberated from a builders skip in a nearby village and manufactured some improvised spars from it so that he could sail. An accidental side effect of this was that his outriggers were canted in at the bottom and he reckoned that this reduced the amount of water splashing back off the outriggers into his canoe (which can be quite substantial in certain conditions).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    That is interesting Jurassic. I saw the solway dory outriggers the deck is a bit bigger than the hull. (my sailing boat terminology sucks. What would you call the slight overhang on the deck?) Does this deflect the splash down again, like a lot of dinghies have on their decks, or is it better to have nice rounded corners for the water to 'slide' around. That is actually the thing that worries me a bit about your plan No Idea. The brackets on the side of the outrigger will pick up a lot of spray, and not to mention resistance to forward movement if the outrigger is sunk really deep. I suspect mine are going to be flying in the morning and sunk really deep in the afternoon as the wind always picks up here in the afternoon in summer time. 25 knots is not uncommon. Sometimes we get 35 to 40 knots! even blown out for a good windsurfing session!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    1,740

    Default

    I suspect that the extension that you refer to is simply a side product of the manufacturing process (but I may be wrong, I'm sure Dave will confirm or deny this). It may well have a secondary effect of deflecting some spray downwards though.
    Interesting to hear about the wind strengths you experience, I've read about Langebaan in British windsurfing magazines (I'm a windsurfer as well), it sounds like a fantastic spot. I also used to sail (windsurf) regularly with a guy who had family in SA and spent a lot of time out there, he raved about the sailing conditions. Last I heard from him he'd moved to Cabo Verde though (lucky guy).

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    Tried them at 25k. Didnt have a problem with drag off the outrigger - the boat filled up as Ive only got 3" freeboard, which caused me some interesting handling though.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Thanks for all the responses! Yes Langebaan is a fantastic windsurfing spot. And there is a large group of sailors who frequent it. There is a spot called kraalbaai and the other day I was out there with the best freestyle sailors in the world. The world champion and British champion. They go up there for photoshoots as it is at the top of the lagoon and the water is warm and 3 foot deep forever! So they can look cool without wetsuits and the cameraman can stand on the sand. It is a truly awesome place. The main windsurfing spot is usually quite choppy (very choppy actually) mostly. I would not want to be out there in a open canoe in those conditions. But you do get calm days when I will brave the Langebaan in a canoe.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    grange over sands, cumbria
    Posts
    930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Can'toe View Post
    I saw the solway dory outriggers the deck is a bit bigger than the hull. (my sailing boat terminology sucks. What would you call the slight overhang on the deck?) Does this deflect the splash down again, like a lot of dinghies have on their decks, or is it better to have nice rounded corners for the water to 'slide' around.
    The overhang on the outrigger deck, is used to put the deck on the outrigger hull shell. It also serves as an overhang with which the outrigger can be bolted to the beam. It may well deflect spay a bit but that is not why it is there.
    We set our outriggers in line with the centre line of the canoe. ie. no toe in. Toe in may theoretically have some advantages when going upwind, in that it may give a bit of extra lift, but this will increase the drag. But the down side may be that when running, if you dip the outrigger in the water, it may push the bow across and make a broach more likely.(turns the canoe, which heels the canoe more, which turns the canoe, more etc until you are sideways to the wind and capsize). Toe out may reduce the drag of them going upwind as the canoe will be making leeway so the outrigger would be running more true, but again when running, and the canoe is running true, the outrigger wouldn't so again it would cause more drag and perhaps affect handling.
    In reality the outriggers seem to have no bad side effects as they are, so we prefer to keep it simple.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Well not much progress but the weather has now turned cold and wet. Not very inspiring for sailing and not ideal for playing around with epoxy. I did get some work done on the rigging. I got it up in a good blow the other day and it seemed like it will do the job nicely. I am really thinking to rather employ an aluminium mast and boom rather than the composite one I have now for the ease of mounting fittings to it. Alternatively I need to get hold of some old composite tent poles from a dome tent that I can use to make sleeves through the mast for tying rope through the mast. Ali would probably be a lot lighter which would be a nice advantage but I would then need to go and buy some and it only comes in 6 meter lengths of which I would need 3 different diameters for the mast boom and sprit, and that is going to probably cost a bit of cash and leave me with a lot of spare material! I do like the idea that the ali would give me the ability to easily make changes to the rigging which I can see is probably going to happen quite a bit as I start testing everything out. Hmm... decisions decisions....

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    in the depths of winter here now, but I need to get a move on as spring comes early in these parts.

    Considering taking a different tack on the outriggers again. This has been inspired by my recent purchase of a vacuum pump which I stumbled upon at a local junk store. The ability to suck would enable me to make nice layups of glass and resin. So plan is to use the deck jig as a flat surface around the perimeter of the sheer and do a nice fillet. then sand and spray to perfection with auto paint the outside and flange that I have created. then after this has been achieved I can do a gel coat and glass to create a mould. Then I can use the mould to create two identical outrigger bottoms that will be strong, stiff and waterproof. Once this has been achieved I can use the plug to create a deck and make a mould of that. Then I can simply glue the decks and hulls together on the flange. Similar to the way a laser dinghy is created. I will then have a nice outrigger that can be bolted to the mast thwart through the flange. I can't decide whether this would be more work than the current plywood plan. One advantage would be once I have made the moulds I would be able to remake outriggers for other canoes with ease.

    What do you all think of this idea?

    I am also trying to figure out the flotation. How do you determine how many litres of flotation are required to keep a canoe and its contents of a specific weight afloat? I guess what i need is to know how many kg's of mass are required to sink 1 liter of air? Google here I come.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Yes well that was a bit obvious... 1liter of air will support 1kg. Or am I wrong here. That means i need quite a bit of flotation. Going to need to travel light... Now next challenge.. how to weigh the canoe??

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    Bathroom scales.

    One end with the other propped to keep it level, then the other.

    Dont forget to weigh you, and all your gear too.

    Difficult bit is measuring the area inside the canoe to find out how much you need to seal off to keep it afloat.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I was going to include my gear and the rig and the weight of the outriggers, but was thinking of leaving myself and Jude out of the equation as we would be out of the canoe in the event of a capsize. Then we would bail to a certain extent from the side before re-boarding... or is this a bad idea??

    I am estimating the canoe, outriggers, gear, drinking water and rig to be about 100kg's. That's already a lot of flotation required! I guess the outriggers would be about 20 or 30 liters already. But if I add myself and Jude then that would be 200 liters needed. Gulp... Does this sound about average or am I way off?

    Sorry for the metric....

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Chatty bunch you lot!



    Been working on the plug for the hull mold. Looking good. Perhaps the next coat will be the last. Then I will lay up a nice thick chopmat on gel coat to form the mold.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    Your plug looks good! Sorry for lack of responses but many are away on their hols this time of year, so not online much if at all.
    Don't worry about the metric stuff - many of us are biligual!
    Rescue tactics that rely on bailing from outside the canoe are a little riskier than having integral buoyancy sufficient to re-enter without bailing - wave action in the tricky conditions that are likely to have contributed to the problem in the first place will threaten that limited freeboard.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poole Dorset UK
    Posts
    2,282
    Journal Entries
    738

    Default

    Sorry Can toe

    I missed your post.

    Depends on how cold the water is where you are and if it will give you hypothermia, or what risk you have of predators if you spend several minutes splashing about in the water. You also have to assume that having tipped it over once, you will do it again a few minutes later, and yu will need the strength and co ordination to get sorted again.

    I want enough buoyancy that the canoe will stay on the surface if completely swamped with me and all my gear in it, so I can paddle it to shore and deal with bailing there.

    I tested it for 30 minutes. It took on half a pint of water.

    I have paddled back several times with it like this with the waves hitting my chest.



    My problems are power boat and jetski wakes washing over the boat, waves breaking over the bow and side waves catching me unaware.

    Once flooded, I cant bail it with waves still coming over, and Ive only minutes in the cold water here, so making it to shore is my only option.

    I can get back on if I fall off. Ive tested and done it.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Hmm. Ok. Well it is cold here! The waters of the atlantic can be freezing cold like when you go in your ankles go numb. We will however be in the river the lower reaches of which are pretty cold, but further in it is warmer, and the upper reaches of Langebaan have warmer water. The wind chill can be quite intense. I always windsurf in a wetsuit and that is quite comfortable. So we will probably just have wetsuits. The idea of capsizing and then not being able to bail does not sound fun. I would try to avoid such treacherous conditions. I think the river itself is not so choppy even when the wind gets up, and it is pretty narrow so the canoe could always be dragged/paddled to the side in a swamped state.

    been thinking of looking into plastic barrels for flotation and dry storage combined. I could have 2x100 liter barrels. One aft of the rear seat and one just aft of the mast. I am going to go and see how big they are...

    Got a layer of white paint on the plug. Looking really good now. Just 2 little runs or slight sags. I did it in satin and want a perfect coat so the mould comes up satin as well. S I will need to flat it out again and see if I can apply a perfect satin sprayed coat tomorrow.

    Also got more fills or pours done on the mast. I did a pour in the middle where the sprit pulley will tie on. Not so much for strength but more to make it possible to drill a hole through which to pass the rope easily. I used a hole saw to create a slightly over sized plug and pushed it down to the right place using a stick. Then poured the thickened epoxy on top of that. So the mast is nearly done now. Just a bit of drilling and shaving and sanding and some paint here and there for effect.

    The sprit is a problem still. I had a piece of solid aluminum bar, but It is heavy 12mm stuff and I think it will be able to bend easily. I have been considering an old fishing rod of thicker dimensions for the sprit. Alternatively a piece of aluminum curtain rod. I think it is important that it floats for not losing it in the water somehow. Perhaps I can get a piece of ali pipe for the sprit and boom of the same dimensions. Say around 25mm or so? It will be a bit thick for the sprit but if it is light it will be fine...


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA, shores of Puget Sound
    Posts
    503

    Default

    Hello Can'toe,
    I've been following along here and admiring your work on the pontoons. They will undoubtably turn out nicely. You mention that you are thinking of certain options for your spar set. Personally, I would not go too thin on the mast. Trimarans put tremendous pressure on the mast, and on the mast partner/step arrangement. This is because they do not have a pronounced heeling moment to help spill the wind from the sail.

    If you are going with aluminum, I might suggest at least a 1-1/2inch (about 38 mm) diameter with a wall thickness of maybe 3 or 4mm. My rig has a 9ft mast of 2-1/4inch diameter supporting a 64sq ft gunter rig. In all, 13ft of sail above the gunnels. Alot of sail for a canoe, resulting in serious flexing at the mast.

    The boom of mahogany will do fine. It's ok to have a heavy boom, especially with a sprit rig. It'll help keep the sail flatter in the wind. Besides, what you show in your pic is hardly heavy at all. You have an old fiberglass canoe that looks like a Willits Brothers copy. Very traditional looking and probably over-built, yes? Don't worry about weight so much. Better heavy down low than up high - unless you plan on carrying that thing very far.

    I was studying your mast placement relative to your position of the leeboards. When you get the whole thing in the water, you may wish to be able to move the leeboards for and aft to find out where the balance point is on your boat. There is a sweet spot in every sailing boat that correponds to the distance between the sail CE and the keel fin - or in our world, the leeboards. If something breaks or goes wrong, you want the boat to turn into the wind on its own. If it turns lee and heads down wind, it may run away from you if you somehow are in the water.
    Last edited by OutnBacker; 25th-August-2012 at 03:24 AM.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Hi OutnBacker... The mast is basically sorted with the cut down windsurfer mast which now has the fills or 'pours' top bottom and centre where the sprit block will be lashed on. Its cool and strong and light. The reason for wanting to change over to ali for the boom is probably more out of laziness and perhaps a little of the aesthetic issue than anything else. I just see having to repaint the boom a little too often perhaps, and the ali will look slicker and more sorted, and possibly stronger too. Inch and a half would be great for the boom. I have an Optimist dinghy for the kids which has a marginally bigger sail than my canoe has. It has a very thin boom around 20mm and the sprit is made from the same stuff. In an Ideal world I need a 20mm sprit and 38mm boom. I'll check what is available before making any decisions. The mahogany boom will be fine for now if I just slap a bit of paint on there.

    The canoe is heavy as hell and completely over engineered. Perhaps a good thing although I would prefer a lighter craft, the really tough and rigidity of this canoe has made my life easier for mounting the leeboard and other stuff.

    On The leeboard placement. There is a longish block with a line of holes in it for adjustment. If that fails I can easily remount the block further forward or aft if needed.

    I figure I wil get the rig finished and the rudder and then go test it out and see if the stuff is placed correctly. Once it is all good I'll fill any unwanted holes and give it a lick of paint which it kind of needs anyway.







    work has been done on the rudder. A simple affair. It is just a side mounted blade on a rudder stock. Not too sure of the terminology. I routed a groove on one side for the pintels to be recessed so the blade can be snug against the stock and rotate up and down. The paint you see is primer that i bombed on there very thick to try and fill the grain. I will now sand fill and prime again and then sand again and then white topcoat.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA, shores of Puget Sound
    Posts
    503

    Default

    Can'toe,
    Sounds like you have things well in hand. Looking forward to seeing the continued progression. Just today I finished another set of pontoons. My canoeing buddy so enjoyed the kit I made for my boat that he wanted one for his. My neighbors think I'm mad...

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Well I got a aluminium boom and sprit in the form of curtain rods. Came already anodized. My rig looks super awesome now and can be deployed in a matter of seconds.

    Also getting close with the foils. As soon as the foils are done I am going to make a short temporary mast thwart and go and test out the rig. I have a 25 liter plastc bottle shoved in each end and an additional foam block under each seat for the testing phase.

    I have moved to a small town called Riebeek Kasteel and my buddy has a house with waterfront access to a fairly large farm dam. Ideal testing grounds to iron out the kinks...

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    1,740

    Default

    Looking good Can'toe, keep the updates coming.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    A bit more progress has been made. Rudder installed on Burmese teak side mounted blocks...




    lee board is also painted and now has a lever with a golf ball for a knob.



    The nut I made up from some scrap stainless and a stainless nut but it is a but small and hard to tighten it enough without hurting the fingers. I may have another go at that.

    Here is a pic of the rig all set up with the new aluminium spars. It is really quick to set up. About a minute or two and it is good to go. I had it rigged up in a fairly strong wind on the lawn and it seems like it is all working fine. Just need to sort out the sheets. A sheet from boom to hand may well be what I go for. Or perhaps a block on the boom at the end to the rear deck.. This was before I mounted the rudder so it is just leaning against the hull for effect. Also the jibs final position would be more down the fore deck giving it a less severe angle.



    The mast thwart is just a temporary arrangement while I get the outriggers sorted. Flotation is still an issue. I did a test with the 2 25L bottles in the ends and the foam under the seats and it floated but if I get into it while it is swamped it would be impossible to bail it from inside. I need to invest in some inflatable flotation of some sort. Tractor inner tube perhaps??

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Peterborough, England
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    It looks really good Brian.

    Your rudder and leeboard turned out well by the looks of it. I also like your rig together with the jib sail.
    It looks like it is in the right place in relation to the leeboard.

    I trust you will be fitting a mast foot also once you know where the mast thwart is going?

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    The foot is fitted Steamerpoint. The leeboard is adjustable forward and aft by way of several holes through its mounting bracket. If it comes down to it the bracket can also be moved. Once I have it in the water I'll get it all sailing in a straight line and then do the final finishing and painting etc

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Well I am pleased to report the maiden voyage has been done. I took the canoe home yesterday and this morning my son and I took it down to the small farm dam. Mild breeze blowing. Perhaps 3 to 6 knots but the dam is quite low compared to the windward slope covered in grape vines so the wind was very mild. I only rigged the mainsail.

    It sailed very well indeed. no real sign of any serious weather helm or anything. The rudder feels wonderfully light and the leeboard makes the whole canoe so nice and stable. I paddled upwind first just to be safe and even that was so much better than it was having the leeboard down a bit and the rudder than when it was just a directionless amorphous blob of a boat.

    I am also pleased to report it goes upwind fairly well and I had no problem getting back to the starting point on the upwind bank.

    problems: the tiller is not really stiff enough, or long enough, and it needs the tennis ball resistant slide thingy for using when paddling. The rudder lifting and lowering system is not working too well but the rudder does stay down fine. I just sailed it holding the boom with my hand which was a bit awkward so a cleat-able sheet is going to be an improvement. This will need to be small cleats and a fairly thin rope as the forces involved in gentle winds are not huge. Perhaps just a line from the boom through a block to a cleat?

    Sadly no pics as I left the camera behind. Just having some lunch now then I'll pop down again at about 3 and have another bash... with camera. The wind should have picked up by then
    Last edited by Can'toe; 13th-October-2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: typo

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Here are some pics.







    The main problems I am having are with the rudder kick up system. The elastic cord was supposed to hold it down. With the slight swelling of the wood with the moisture it became stiff and then when it kicks up it would not return on the elastic. Then I was trying to raise it and the little fairlead thingy popped off rendering the whole up down mechanism useless. If I loosen off the bolt a smidgen then it will swing up and down easily again. I am considering casting a plug of lead into the rudder to make it swing down. Then I just need a rope to raise it. Alternatively it can just stay down all the time but this will be a pain for portage. Hmm

    Otherwise I am really pleased with the performance. The leeboard works fine. It could have been a bit longer but it is cool. She sails upwind fine and I never have difficulty landing on the upwind bank. The seating is a bit lacking. Uncomfortable and in the wrong place for both crew and helm. I am considering cutting out the seats and installing long foam seats and glassing them in. This will help with flotation. The helm seat is a bit far back for balancing it when sailing single handed. The crew seat is too far forward.

    I really had no problem sailing without the outriggers but I will soldier on with them primarily so that the kids can learn to sail her without capsizing. There where one or two gusts which caught me out and we shipped a tiny bit of water but I stayed in the canoe on the seat all the time. Just shifting my weight from side to side was enough.

    I need to give her a name... Any Ideas?

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    Getting the rudder up and down mechanism right is often tricky - for the reasons you've already identified. Leaving a little extra space between the cheeks of the stock can be a good idea - for the wood to swell, or for the paint or varnish you might add later, or for some very thin plastic washers (cut from some old margerine tub or similar) which can help with the blade moving smoothly. Adding lead is not the solution I would go for - I would cure the fault, not the symptom!
    I've recently changed from a system using shockcord to pull the blade down, with just an uphaul - to a two line system, one for up, another for down. A bit more complex but dependable and doesn't let the blade get forced up when blasting downwind, which makes the helm heavy, putting more force on everything.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    And I'm no good at naming my own boat let alone other people's, sorry!

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Been doing quite a bit of sailing. Everything is holding up fine.

    Today I got the glass laid up on the plug for making the hull mold.


  42. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    AAARGH!!! The damn release ram wax stuff did not exactly do its job. I think it could be that I did all the ram waxing in the evening and laid it up in the morning. Should probably have put on a nice fresh coat of wax just before laying it all up. Alternatively there was some sort of reaction between the paint I used on the plug and the wax/resin.

    Anyhow... what should have been a simple task of popping the mold from the plug turned into 3 hours of painstaking chipping, scraping, sanding, fiberglass splinters and sore worn out hands... and a lot of cussing... but finally managed to get the plug separated (almost all of it) from the mold.

    I now have this.



    Sadly the inside surface of the mold now leaved a lot to be desired in terms of finish... quite a few nasty gouges and scratches and sanding marke as well as a couple of bubbles. I now need to fill in all the blemishes with thickened epoxy and flat sand them all out.

    I also think I made the bottom of the plug way too sharp so I think I will make a largish fillet at the bottom to round it over some more. It is damn hard getting down there to sand and this is where a large majority of the gouges are.

    The plug is also reduced to a pile of rubbish now so I have nothing on which to build the deck which poses a further problem.

    A real pita but what can I do but soldier on.

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    1,740

    Default

    Bad luck there Brian, it still looks pretty serviceable to my (very) untrained eyes though. It's great to watch your project progressing here, keep us updated on how you get on with the mold and making a deck.

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    grange over sands, cumbria
    Posts
    930

    Default

    Been there, done that, but dont give up. When that happened to us, we let it cure, waxed it up, and took another plug from inside it. It is easier to finish the outside of something rather than the inside.

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    I had thought of that Dave. The bummer is I spent a whole bunch of cash on the glass and resin for the mold. I am thinking to fill the really bad indentations and just cast the two hulls with blemishes and all. Then I'll just prime and paint them, filling in any scratches and imperfections in the process.

    I am really a bit pissed off that i did not try the canoe without the outriggers from the start. I probably would not have bothered at all as I find it pretty easy to sail even in a fairly stiff breeze. I have not even had to get up on the wale ever. The leeboard makes it really quite stable. Be nice for the kids though, and less experienced folks.

    I did a capsize test. Not good results. She does not sink but the inadequate flotation tends to move to one side and she lolls over to one side with that wale under water. Would be impossible to self rescue.. I need to build new seats and end flotation tanks in one thing from foam and glass them in. Some inspection ports and I have some dry storage...

  46. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,503

    Default

    Thanks for sharing. That is very well done. The kids will learn to sail without the outriggers.
    Dr. Joe
    Electric Hospital
    Coos Bay Or
    http://electrichospital.com

  47. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Thanks Dr. Joe

    Indeed they probably will if I could just drag them from the techno crap for an hour or two. I actually find the canoe incredibly easy to sail due to the small sail area.
    I would actually advise anyone with an unstable canoe to add a leeboard even for paddling. The canoe is just much much more stable.

    I have come so far with the outriggers that I may as well just soldier on

  48. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    grange over sands, cumbria
    Posts
    930

    Default

    The outriggers do help with capsize recovery and i think when you do get into trouble, this is probably the biggest consideration.

  49. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Can'toe View Post
    I had thought of that Dave. The bummer is I spent a whole bunch of cash on the glass and resin for the mold. I am thinking to fill the really bad indentations and just cast the two hulls with blemishes and all. Then I'll just prime and paint them, filling in any scratches and imperfections in the process.

    I am really a bit pissed off that i did not try the canoe without the outriggers from the start. I probably would not have bothered at all as I find it pretty easy to sail even in a fairly stiff breeze. I have not even had to get up on the wale ever. The leeboard makes it really quite stable. Be nice for the kids though, and less experienced folks.

    I did a capsize test. Not good results. She does not sink but the inadequate flotation tends to move to one side and she lolls over to one side with that wale under water. Would be impossible to self rescue.. I need to build new seats and end flotation tanks in one thing from foam and glass them in. Some inspection ports and I have some dry storage...
    Side buoyancy tanks will enable the canoe to be righted with less water inside. Granted you may well not need outriggers to prevent a capsize but this depends a lot on wind conditions and gusts. However, mini outriggers (of the size you are seeking to make) will will allow righting from inversion and a much more stable platform to climb back into the boat. I'm not evangelising about outriggers and sail without them myself, but when coastal canoe sailing I fit them, as much to enable self recovery as anything.

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    So now I am satisfied with the rig, I need to turn my attention to the buoyancy issue. I have been sailing it on the pond with nothing for buoyancy for the past few weeks. I just have a float and a long rope in the bows so if it does go down I can make a plan to drag it out again. pond is now only half as deep as it was as all the water gets slowly used up irrigating the vineyards.

    I made a new and improved mast thwart from a nice piece of reclaimed teak.

    I looked into buoyancy bags as used on the sailing dinghy's like the optimist but they are pretty dear!

    Then I thought what about inner tubes from a truck or tractor. I have now acquired a fairly substantial one for a couple of bucks from the tire repair shop nearby. Luckily being a fairly agricultural area used and unwanted inner tubes from trailers and tractors are fairly common. Looking at combine harvester sized inner tubes for the stern and aft bags. and a tractor tube for the center. Quite heavy but hey.. canoe weighs half a to already

    So now I am contemplating chopping out all the old seats... they are hopelessly uncomfortable and really in the wrong position for sailing. The wood is also pretty far gone from the sun. As for the yoke.. there is absolutely no way in hell I am ever going to lift this heavy canoe onto my back! So that can go!

    So once these are out the way, I can probably make up some laminated frames front and back to enable some inner tubes to be lashed in. then seats of polystyrene glassed over with glass and epoxy, and some more frames to lash in the large tractor inner tube in the center.

    Going down to fiddle around now, then will probably load her (yes still no name :/) onto the van and take her back to the workshop for another round of modifications, improvements and probably a bit of paint here and there.

    Cheers and Compliments of the season to all of you

  51. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    south Cumbria
    Posts
    1,195

    Default

    Sounds like good plans you have. Seasonal felicitations to you and yours, too!

  52. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Hmm.. well the tractor tube will take up most of the inside of the canoe... Going to need something a little smaller.

  53. #53
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Deepest darkest Wales
    Posts
    3,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Can'toe View Post
    AAARGH!!! .....
    I also think I made the bottom of the plug way too sharp so I think I will make a largish fillet at the bottom to round it over some more. It is damn hard getting down there to sand and this is where a large majority of the gouges are.
    .....
    You can make a serviceable fillet in a mould like that by using plasticine - then use PVA (poly vinyl alcohol) as the release agent.

    With a bit more money you can use specialist fillet wax..
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/prod...lling-wax.aspx
    This post may vanish at any moment.

  54. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Thanks for the advice Doug. I'll get back to the outriggers some time soon.

    Well.. i think the inner tube idea is probably not a good one. They don't really fit very nicely in there. I am now busy gathering polystyrene so I can blank off the ends and make seats and glass them in. This will also be better for storage of gear.

    Still plucking up the courage to hack out the old seats and yoke. I don't know why I feel any attachment to them. They are so uncomfortable. and the yoke is totally useless.

    There are no short cuts...

  55. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Got stuck into the flotation issue. I decided to just block up the ends and be done with it. Got lots of dry storage now and hopefully enough flotation.

    The cooler will go in the middle and also add to the flotation a bit. I will also use foam in the seats to add a more flotation.



    Looking a lot less likely to sink.





    Doing some fairing but ran out of resin and glass bubbles. I strengthened up the shoulders with a few more layers of glass.

    Looking forward to doing the capsize test... Just need to paint it first..
    Last edited by Can'toe; 25th-January-2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: double pic

  56. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Peterborough, England
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    Very professional job, well done.

  57. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cape Town South Africa
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Thanks Steamerpoint. It is pretty lumpy up close but I am not too concerned about it. I am also in search of a short piece of carbon or fiberglass tube to close off all the carry handle holes, whilst allowing a rope to pass through. Thinking a tent pole....

  58. #58

    Default

    Hi, I've been following your project with interest as I'm doing the same myself as a winter project, my sail rig is based on the Bermuda setup, I got the mast, sail, and a few cleats, pulleys, from local sailing club guys, I had to get the sail shortened and make the Thwart and mast foot, at the minute I'm making the out rigging floats from 4" waste pipe cut @ 45 and using Upvc Fascia board to seal the ends up, I've made mine 42" long but you can make them as long or short as you need them, looking at making a rudder system and the lee boards now...Photo is the near finished float, pipe was brown, first coat of primer rollered on

  59. #59

    Default float

    need 2 posts to get permission for photos

  60. #60

    Default


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •