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Thread: Brian's sailing canoe conversion

  1. #61
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    Welcome to the addictive world of canoe sailing.

    Looks and sounds good so far.

    That's pretty much how most of us started, pottering around in the garage making bits.

    Your float idea sounds simple enough and looks really good. The amount of buoyancy in each float might be a little on the small side for a big sail in strongish winds, but better to have something. Do you plan to use a straight pole or plank across the gunwales or raise them up using a bent or bowed beam?

  2. #62

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    Hi, I took my ideas from different sail setups the reefing Bermuda sail was the obvious choice, the out rigging design from the "any canoe sail" setup, will be the choice, the rudder will be interesting as I thinking along the lines of a twin blade design that doubles as an extra leeboard. Check out the videos that have inspired me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0uhsg3U1c

  3. #63
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    Looks good Fra. It was my first notion but I decided yo go with the mold technique. But work on the outriggers has been abandoned for the more urgent task of flotation and paint and getting her back on the water.

    I Think I am going to call her 'Osprey'.. Probably a million other boats out there called osprey but who cares...

    I have the seats done and think I am over the worst of the glassing and sanding. I did a bit of fairing. Not perfect but good enough for jazz.







    The seats are just a sheet of isoboard (strong foam insulation board) Glued between the existing seat cross pieces.... with a single layer of heavy tri directional glass and epoxy over... The bottoms are not even glassed. They feel pretty tough and I have not added too much additional weight..

    Sprayed primer on all the fresh epoxy areas.

    I want to find some foamy like sheeting... like a yoga mat or or hiking mat or something to glue on the seats and back rests for some padding.

    Color will probably be light turquoise on the hull and the same grey inside again.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra View Post
    Hi, I took my ideas from different sail setups the reefing Bermuda sail was the obvious choice, the out rigging design from the "any canoe sail" setup, will be the choice, the rudder will be interesting as I thinking along the lines of a twin blade design that doubles as an extra leeboard. Check out the videos that have inspired me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0uhsg3U1c
    Trying to visualise what a twin blade rudder looks like and how it might act as a leeboard.

    The leeboard ideally wants to be around the centre of effort of the sail and fairly close to the centre of the canoe to prevent sideways slip through the water when on a reach or close hauled.

    If you are relying on the rudder to prevent side slip, I feel that this will be ineffective and the canoe will crab sideways with the rudder steering the stern downwind in an attempt to keep the bow straight or into wind.

    If you mean rudder blade design as in the long rudder paddle that clips to either side of the post, as shown in the video, I have never tried this setup, but it does seem to work in the video.

    Also in the video is the trailing twin blade leeboards. I can't see if these are adjustable, but in an ideal world you want to be in a position to angle the leeboard or leeboards under the water to trim the canoe while sailing, especially if you are using a reefable Bermudan sail, as the centre of pressure on the sail will move forward as you reef down and you will want to tilt the leeboard forward also. Trickier to do if you have two leeboards to worry about.

    I was initially drawn to the "Any Canoe Sail" setup also in that I didn't really fancy drilling holes into my new canoe. It was for this reason I developed my clip-on rudder setup, but actually decided to overcome my fear of drilling holes into my canoe for a better performance setup.

    Sailboats to go offer an instant sailing kit that will get most canoes onto the water with a degree of sailability. I am not a big fan of their mast foot which is just pressed down onto the floor of the canoe and held in place with friction! Their sail looks too big for the amount of force it could be asked to cope with. The mast looks very thin too.

    I quite like the idea of the outriggers that can be moved inboard for coming along side a river bank, but the outriggers themselves look much smaller than the Solway Dory outriggers I am using and I can easily submerge my outriggers if I'm not careful, so anything smaller would be worse. Then again, it depends on what conditions you plan to sail in and what level of sailing you are happy with. Pottering around a lake in fairly calm conditions on a hot summers day, then I am sure they will help if a gust tries to knock the canoe over.

    One tip that you might find useful though. I found that a 6-inch diameter cistern ball valve float can offer a great deal of buoyancy if mounted on a long enough pole outboard of the canoe. If you find that your outriggers sink too easily, why not try making the outrigger arms longer.

    Good luck with it and look forward to hearing how you progress.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Can'toe View Post
    Looks good Fra. It was my first notion but I decided yo go with the mold technique. But work on the outriggers has been abandoned for the more urgent task of flotation and paint and getting her back on the water.

    I Think I am going to call her 'Osprey'.. Probably a million other boats out there called osprey but who cares...

    I have the seats done and think I am over the worst of the glassing and sanding. I did a bit of fairing. Not perfect but good enough for jazz.

    The seats are just a sheet of isoboard (strong foam insulation board) Glued between the existing seat cross pieces.... with a single layer of heavy tri directional glass and epoxy over... The bottoms are not even glassed. They feel pretty tough and I have not added too much additional weight..

    Sprayed primer on all the fresh epoxy areas.

    I want to find some foamy like sheeting... like a yoga mat or or hiking mat or something to glue on the seats and back rests for some padding.

    Color will probably be light turquoise on the hull and the same grey inside again.
    Coming along nicely Can'toe.

    Yep Jeff and I also call our canoes "Osprey", it's a popular name alright!

    No only kidding, not named my canoe!

    It's going to look good when it's done. Keep the updates coming.

  6. #66
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    Today I cut up an old piece of fishing rod and filled in the original handle holes with two short pieces and some glass micro balloon thickened epoxy. I landed up with a smaller but still usable hole going through but there will be no water leaking in at the handles now. Then I sprayed a bit more primer around the gunwales and over all other exposed epoxy.

    Next thing is a topcoat on the deck and the interior, and then mount the inspection ports and I can take her out for a test run. See how well the flotation works..

    I have quite a bit of heavy glass and resin left over from the flotation and seats job, which I intend to use to take a mold of a small part of the hull to make a dolly. I have an old lawnmower from which I will harvest some wheels..

  7. #67

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    One tip that you might find useful though. I found that a 6-inch diameter cistern ball valve float can offer a great deal of buoyancy if mounted on a long enough pole outboard of the canoe.?

  8. #68
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    In Terms of getting back in again after a capsize Fra?

    I will be playing around with that shortly, as the buoyancy tanks are now completed and sealed. Also painted for the most part...

    We turned her over after the paint had got hardish on the inside. Tomorrow some sanding and filling on the hull and a coat of paint.




  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra View Post
    One tip that you might find useful though. I found that a 6-inch diameter cistern ball valve float can offer a great deal of buoyancy if mounted on a long enough pole outboard of the canoe.?
    See image and video.





    When making a device to aid re-entry, a tiny 6-inch diameter float on a long pole offered sufficient buoyancy to slow the roll rate long enough to climb back inside.

    My point was that if outriggers are deemed to be a little on the small side, simply make the beam longer as this has the effect of increasing their effective buoyancy. Essentially it's using the principle of levers & leverage.
    Last edited by Steamerpoint; 13th-February-2013 at 02:24 PM.

  10. #70
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    Oh Yes!!.. in the absence of outriggers that doodad would help a lot. Is it like an extension walking stick? I hope getting back in won't be too much of an issue. I am still pretty nimble. We shall see. The thing that bothers me more is can I get back in and still have enough free board to bail her out again?? This could be quite problematic in big choppy conditions...

    Hull has been sanded off and filled in my absence today. Hopefully I can put on some primer tomorrow...
    Last edited by Can'toe; 13th-February-2013 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Typo

  11. #71
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    The buoyancy tanks look great and will be enough to hold the canoe up when swamped after a capsize. My first canoe had large built in end tanks, but after a capsize practice it came up full to the gunwales with water. I later solved this problem with side buoyancy in the form of bags which emptied the canoe as it was righted as it supported it high when it was on its side. Check this out to see whether yours will be ok or not when it is finished.

  12. #72
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    New paintwork

    I took her back to the farm dam. Not the most pleasant experience as there is not too much water left in the dam. Also leaches have become prevalent. Apparently the come out at this time every year. Horrible. Then the rudder came un-clipped so clearly I need a better solution to that issue. I wanted to see if I could do a capsize recovery but the leach issue put me off.

    But the newly installed main sheet worked really well, so happy about that..

    I think I will take 'Osprey' down to my brothers place. He lives on a vlei which is nice and big, but not too big, for further testing...

  13. #73
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    Took the canoe out for an early 'summer' sail on the Langebaan lagoon. At a place called Kraalbaai. It is like Mediterranean idyllic bliss there. Crystal clear water and 3 foot deep forever. We where blessed with a wonderful sunny day at the beginning of august.

    The sailing did not however pan out so well... all because of rudder issues. The tiller extension fell over the side, jammed in the sand and broke in two. I also realized that the rudder is a right pain from a lowering and raising perspective. Almost impossible to use easily. I think I am just going to start again and build another one. Aluminium 1/4 inch thick blade with Burmese teak top bits... not sure what those are called. Cheeks I guess. I also need to arrange it so there is a tiller extension on both sides of the canoe. or possibly a cable arrangement. Not to sure at this stage. Otherwise the sail was great while it lasted.

    Later in the afternoon the wind died down and we had a great time paddling about the place. I also think that two single blade paddles will be much better for me than the double blade affair. The main issue with the double blade is its hard to stow it in the canoe neatly. It ends up sticking out and getting in the way a lot. And it makes you have to paddle in a specific way that is just uncomfortable in an open canoe as the hands tend to get repeatedly knocked on the gunwales. I can see some laminating and shaving of wood in my near future...
    Last edited by Can'toe; 7th-August-2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: typo

  14. #74
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    The word "vlei" might need translating for some. Made me smile though. Langebaan is a great place to play in the water. Memories from my former life - thanks for the reminders.

  15. #75
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    Indeed. Langebaan is awesome! a 'vlei' is a kind of inland wetland area that is a bit more open water. It is generally not too deep. There are plenty in the Cape Town low lying areas. A place we call the Cape Flats.

  16. #76
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    We used to waterski in Zeekoevlei. Happy memories.

    Strange name though, there were no manatees or hippos (that I was aware of). Plenty of Carp though.

  17. #77
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    Here we have my new rudder setup. After failing to work out how to make the old one stay on and the breaking of the tiller and indeed the difficulty in setting up a decent mechanism for raising the rudder, I decided to to just make a new one. I did make use of the old foil though. I made the whole thing from recycled stainless steel from my old well point pump housing and some reclaimed burmese teak from a piece of an old door.



    The tiller is an old fishing rod. Just need to repaint the hull at the back from where I fixed up the other rudder holes.

    I am excited to test out the new rudder. It feels like it will be vastly better and it won't fall off. I will also use a piece of elastic chord to ensure that the tiller cannot fall over the side again and get broken.

  18. #78
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    Took her out on the water for test of the new rudder setup. Everything worked very nicely indeed.... much better.... except for the wind..... that was very iffy. The one thing I will change in due course is the tiller extension. The old fishing rod is about 8 inches too short. Going to go in search of an nice sized aluminium rod. I need to make it easy to detach from the rudder. It is very awkward to ship the rudder with the long tiller on it. Also I saw that tennis ball arrangement on here somewhere and was thinking that would be nice for the time when I actually do some voyaging. In light airs it would be nice to set up and fix the tiller on a particular bearing then take to the paddle for assistance. Paddle sailing I guess?

  19. #79
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    We use this type of flexible tiller joint.

    http://www.pinbax.com/index.asp?sele...c=61&cct=5&sc=

  20. #80
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    That looks like a nice system Dave. Does it clip on and off?

  21. #81
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    Yes, you slide the two parts together and then clip the cover on to secure it. It is made from rubber and is very flexible, but also very strong. We have had some in use for many years and show no sign of breaking.

  22. #82
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    Thanks Dave. I will order one for xmas.

    I overcame the short tiller issue by making it a Burmese teak extension handle. Still to be tested. Perhaps on Sunday I will go down for a sail.

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