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Thread: PakCanoe 165

  1. #1
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    Default PakCanoe 165

    Maker's Spec

    Max Width: 33” / 84cm
    Gunwale Width: 31” / 79cm
    Depth: 14” / 36cm
    Weight: 53lb / 24kg
    Length: 16.5’ / 505cm
    Capacity: 830lb / 375kg

    Maker's Write Up
    PakCanoe 165 is a smaller wilderness tripper. It works well for two moderate size paddlers and gear for 2 or 3 weeks. The 165 is narrower than the 170 and makes a nice expedition solo. Wider cross ribs can be installed for greater stability.
    Last edited by Canoe Guru; 8th-March-2007 at 08:41 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default pakcanoe 165

    i have one of these, can only recommend it.

    i've used it a lot on the canals amsterdam which is basically flat water, both solo and tandem and am very happy with it. it's a great boat, light and fast and easy to handle, very responsive. feels better with a bit of load though.
    it rides well on the smaller waves i've encountered here (both in windy conditions and from larger powered craft) and stays pretty dry.

    in both sturdiness and handling it has no disadvantage to solid boats - actually handles better than mass-produced solids i've tried. i haven't taken it to fast running/white water yet but wouldn't see a problem there.

    because of its light weight it needs decent trimming when soloing in the wind.

    it takes about 45-50 mins to put it together working alone. for two people it's about 30mins.

  3. #3
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    This is the canoe that we used on the 2007 Bloodvein trip and despite early reservations I am now totally sold on these boats.

    After building the boat I was amazed at how light and rigid it felt. Fully laden it still performed and tracked well on slow moving flat water. Initial stability is excellent and it munches up the miles with ease.

    On moving water it exceeded my expectations! Once one gets used to the way that it bends when it rises up and down waves you start to realise that this is what helps it stay so dry! Its light weight makes proper trim essential on white water but once you get it right eddy turns and ferries are a joy!

    The rubber on the bottom of the canoe is substantial and looks like it could withstand a lot of abrasion without concern. It is necessary to construct the boat with care, ensuring that all the clips are seated properly. We backed them up with removeable cable ties for our expedition but that shouldn't be required for everyday paddling.

    All in all I would reccomend Pakboats for anyone who wants to travel with a boat in cars, planes or ships.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by boiledbeef View Post
    hi
    do you have any close up pics of the framework etc.
    im interested in any boat that can be packed up small for transportation

    cheers
    bb
    Hello BB
    theres a blogg on this page by lowlander,if you serch the blogg section for his bloggs there are quite a few close ups of his boat.
    A word of warning they ain't cheap
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...ead.php?t=8097
    Regards Retro


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by boiledbeef View Post
    hi
    do you have any close up pics of the framework etc.
    im interested in any boat that can be packed up small for transportation

    cheers
    bb
    We used pakcanoes on the Bloodvein River this summer. Here's a few pics of the boats being assembled (which would be tricky with 1 person). In the top left pic the big black bag holds the boat to give you an idea of packed size:



    The trip blogg has a lot more general pics of the boats in action.
    'Of all the paths you choose in life, make sure some of them are wet'

  6. #6
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    Default thanks guys...

    hey those boats look like they can take some serious battering around
    they must be really well made...
    regards bb


  7. #7
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    i think i should sell my pictures to Pak, everyone seems to be using them

    Seriously though they were good boats for what we used them for on the bloodvein. They did us well and as long as your repair kit includes ductape and zip ties your sorted. Was definiatly interesting with how they rode up and over the water on the rapids, the certainly flexed as ed said and you can see what we mean in the 2 left hand pics of the boat on WW

    Stuart
    Despite all the racing thoughts on where and when your going somewhere or even why, its when you get there and step back and realise that for all that noise, even in your own head, its the peace and solitude we go out there for and is the most precious

    www.Paddleguide.org

  8. #8
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    good to see some interest in these tubs!
    if anyone needs some further pictures in addition to the ones shown here, let me know and i'll make some of the details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Here's a few pics of the boats being assembled (which would be tricky with 1 person).
    i admit it's tricky the first time you do it. but then it would be tricky for 2 people as well. once you get a bit more practice it's no problem. initially, for 1 person it'll take about 50mins. in my experience, with a bit more practice and in a hurry you can do it in about 40mins.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mroz View Post
    It’s exactly he thing that interested me some half year ago. Unfortunately, no one sell it in Czech Republic. Also the price is for me to high {I found on internet the 165 for some 1700Euro}. I would like to ask if somebody knows about these PakCanoe from second hand for reasonable price to let me know. Thanks.
    i got mine from these people (no connection). sent them an email listing the stuff i wanted, and asking them how much it would cost to have it shipped to the netherlands. the price they quoted was the best i could get anywhere, less than they show on their website, and included shipping.

    might be worth sending them an email.

    at the time i was also trying to look at used prices but couldn't find anything interesting. i suppose you'd have to be lucky...

  10. #10
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    I confess to being rather slow at putting together my 16 footer alone. It takes me about 2 hours, and after that I *require* a nap.

    Pringles

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    that's probably because it's the wrong colour boat

    Could be... . I bought a demo for a couple hundred (US) dollars under the regular price, and I came close to ordering "the blue one." The info said that they didn't make any production canoes in blue. I waited a wee bit too long, though, and someone else bought the blue one, so I had to go with red. I like red, so that was no problem. Do red boats take longer to put together? I have a red pakboat kayak, and I'm a little slow at putting it together, too... it takes me about 30 minutes. However, it takes about three hours if someone offers to "help" or supervises.

    Pringles

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowlander View Post
    Congratulations, red is the fastest colour of all. Both to put together, and to paddle

    Based on this fact, it shouldn't really take you 2hrs to put it together. Well the first time maybe, but after you figured things out it should get better. Unless you're more 'relaxed' than I am... or colour blind and the canoe really is green

    Do you have the assembly instructions that usually come with it?
    If red is the fastest, it's good I didn't get green. :-)

    I do have the instructions. I've even read them. The gunwale rods tend to get caught at the far end, so I push a bit, go straighten a bit, push a bit, go straighten a bit... . Then my other trouble area is putting the "braces" in. I'd like to grow some extra hands to facilitate pushing the brace in, while keeping the longitudinal rods in place and getting the whole thing to click together long enough to attach the rubber bands. Do those steps get easier the more you do it? I can't imagine that practice makes it easier to keep all those longitudinal rods under control. Sigh. I do enjoy the naps.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pringles View Post
    The gunwale rods tend to get caught at the far end, so I push a bit, go straighten a bit, push a bit, go straighten a bit... . Then my other trouble area is putting the "braces" in.
    the best thing with the gunwales is to have somebody help you. one of you pushes the rod while the other keeps the 'channel' straight and makes sure the rod doesn't pop out through the holes.
    but if you're alone, here's what i found works pretty well:
    first you push in the gunwale with the skin of the boat lying on it's bottom, until it's past the first hole or two.
    then, turn the skin so that that it's basically lying on the gunwale opposed to the one you're working on. the gunwale you're working on is now on top, with the holes that will hold the braces, pointing down. straighten out the gunwhale 'channel' as well as you can.
    from the end that you're pushing the rod in, pull it up a bit while gently pushing. pulling it up creates an arc so that the rod slides in along the top side of the 'channel', the one without the holes. this way you avoid getting it caught in the holes or pushing it through them.
    you'll still need to go back a few times to straighten a bit but this method should speed things up a bit.

    with the braces, the first two (i.e. the middle ones) are the hardest to get in because they create the initial tension in the hull.
    i usually first make sure that the middle part sits on the keel and the other longitudinal rods are fairly well aligned with the braces. these might slip out again but don't worry, they can be pushed into place at a later stage as long as they're not too far off.
    then i put the clips against the gunwhale rod with the brace at an angle. kneeling in the boat, i use my knees to hold the bottom part of the brace from slipping away, and my hands to push it further into the vertical position. as you progress, you can actually feel the tension of the hull building up against your knees. it might be necessary to do this in a few steps, moving the brace with your hands - moving your knees up to hold this position - then hands again.
    once the brace is fully vertical, you might need to gently push down on the gunwhale to make it click into place.
    while you're holding the brace quite firmly with your knees, it can happen that at the top end, the clip slips away from the hole through which it attaches to the gunwhale. if that's the case just re-align it with your hands while the brace rests agains your knees. once the brace is a bit more vertical you can also click it in already which will prevent it from slipping off again.

    i hope this makes sense. it's a bit of a lengthy description but please don't be scared, once you do it it actually makes sense and is pretty straightforward. it's much harder to describe than to do

    also, things will get better over time. not just because you gain more experience or routine, but also all the bits and pieces get more used to each other, and fall more easily into place once they've been assembled a few times.

    let me know how you're getting on next time!

  14. #14
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    I probably wouldn't drag it anywhere, but it's relatively light, so I don't need to. I got interested in it about 5 years ago, when an outfitter had a square of the fabric sitting on his counter. He said that he'd had it there for 6 months, and asked anybody and everybody to try to tear it, or poke a hole in it. Granted, the force you can get on a piece of fabric in a store isn't the same as the force of something being hurled down a raging river, but the man said that the only way people had been able to do more than rough up the colored surface was to to use a knife. I haven't had any problems with my kayak, but then then, it's light enough that I can' pick it up instead of drag it. (I have a 16 foot Pakboat canoe, too, but I haven't used it much--yet.)

    Pringles

  15. #15
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    i have to agree with pringles. when it's not or just lightly loaded i would drag it a short distance over hard ground (to drop it in the water for example) but nothing more. dragging over (wet) grass goes a lot smoother, of course.

    i've never done it coz it didn't seem like a good idea to me but when it's loaded and you're dragging it around i think the main problem is not abrasion but the stress you put on the frame due to the combination of the weight of your packs and the pull force that's inevitably applied to a small segment of the frame only. in other words, i think you'd end up with bent poles sooner than with a damaged canoe skin.

    so: unloaded it, pick it up, carry it... which is very easy due to the low weight.

  16. #16
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    I have used Pakboats on several expeditions in the NWT of Canada and more recently on the bloodvein river in Manitoba.

    They are remarkably robust with excellent abrasion resistance, even when being dragged over the harsh granite of the pre-cambrian shield.

    Any boat will succumb to a puncture if enough pressure is excerted over a small surface area and care should be taken in all canoes. I once loaned a plastic boat to a friend who brought it back holed after running a weir with exposed metalwork.

    In fact, I am so impressed by Pakboats that I am just starting to import them into the UK.

    I will have a couple of demo boats in the near future and will be happy to let SoTP members paddle them.

  17. #17
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    We are able to import the full range of Pakboats and are just about to order a range of demo boats (including a Puffin) so that we can get them out and about.

    PM me if you are interested in trying one out.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by helixpteron View Post
    I am interested in the Pakboat Puffin Sport, which has an astonishingly low weight of 17lbs, and as I have serious injuries to my back, hip, knee and foot, this may be the only craft of its type which I may be able to transport, assemble and use.

    The weight is just one of the advantages, the design, quality of materials and construction, a good independent review, owners testimonials, established company and model history are quite compelling

    Would you be importing this model or the recently introduced Arrow models?

    I have not paddled a Puffin but I have paddled the Pak in Canada. I was very impressed with their build quality and handling. So much so that I am purchasing an Expedition 14 for myself and am looking to purchase several for my comapny.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  19. #19
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    I've been gradually getting round to reviewing kit that I've used, and today it's the turn of Pakboats.

    I used PakBoats for 8 days on the Bloodvein, a fly-in trip. We used 17ft boats, for the vast majority tandem with loaded boats. Here’s a summary of how I found them.

    The Good Bits

    It’s a canoe in a bag! Let’s face it, as a canoe this boat has some major disadvantages over a hard shell canoe. But you can get it places you wouldn’t otherwise be able to paddle, or paddle affordably. And apparently airlines often carry them free as “Sporting Equipment”. In the right circumstances that will balance out any of the disadvantages of these boats.

    Abrasion resistance: The canoe skin seemed surprisingly resilient. You wouldn’t want to drop it on a sharp stick, but they stood up very well to running over rocks in the river, and being pulled up bank sides. You do need to treat them carefully, but you don’t need to be constantly scared of breaking them.

    Flexible outfitting: You can choose where to put seats, and you can also get accessories such as clamp in portage yokes.

    The Not So Good Bits

    Frame strength: The clips that hold the frame together are not massively strong, leading to the boats occasionally disassembling themselves down rapids, which was rather off putting. You will need to take a good size packet of cable ties.

    Flex: Because they aren’t rigid these boats flex when you paddle them. This can be rather off putting (and can lead to strange situations where one end of the boat capsizes and the other doesn’t… just make sure your bow paddler notices you’ve gone if this happens ). I wouldn’t want to play in one of these boats in the same way as I do in my normal canoe, but then again that isn’t what they are designed for. They feel weird, they don’t paddle like hard shell boats, but they paddle very capably.

    Assembly: These boats do take a while to set up, and it is a much easier job with two people. This would be a major pain for short trips, but insignificant for longer trips.

    Bulk: Disassembled the boats are fairly hefty, comparible to carrying a large rucksack. Mind you I don't think it would be possible to making a folding canoe any smaller and still keep it strong. You would need to factor this into any travel arrangements, as it would be difficult to manage the boat and all your stuff if you were using a lot of public transport. In the airport, into a taxi, into a train, etc would all be manageable if you planned your packing well. I should imagine a folding luggage trolley would make life a lot easier if your travel involved lots of transport changes.

    Knees: These boats can hurt your knees in two ways. First because you may find yourself kneeling on the aluminium struts, particularly the bow paddler. Take a kneeling mat, and use the boat’s bag as extra paddling. Also a risk you might not think of is if you hit any rocks under your knees it will be your knees that absorb the impact rather than the shell of the boat. This can be very painful and could be a major problem if you were in the wilds. It’s a risk to be aware of, though not one that would stop me using the boat. Again, a thick kneeling mat would probably help.


    Conclusion

    Let’s be realistic. If I was beside a river or was planning a trip and had a choice of a pakboat or a hardshell canoe I would choose the hard shell. These boats are capable, but they are not the same as paddling a normal canoe. As a craft for day trips and short trips in the UK I definitely wouldn’t recommend them unless you have no other option because of storage constraints. As a boat for expeditions in “normal” canoeing country I’d rather hire a hard shell canoe from an outfitter when I got out there.

    However, as a boat for expeditions in more unusual areas these boats are just the ticket. I have no need for one now, but in a year or two I could see myself looking at these boats for fly-in trips to locations without outfitters. There are loads of countries that have canoeing potential but no open canoe outfitting infrastructure, which is actually their appeal as paddling destinations – Russia, Mongolia, India, Africa etc. These boats suddenly open up a whole new world to paddlers.
    'Of all the paths you choose in life, make sure some of them are wet'

  20. #20
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    Thank you for your thoughts on the Pak Boat Ameila.

    I have had the pleasure to paddle them not only on the Bloodvein but in the UK and Finland.

    Could you clarify

    t’s a canoe in a bag! Let’s face it, as a canoe this boat has some major disadvantages over a hard shell canoe. But you can get it places you wouldn’t otherwise be able to paddle, or paddle affordably. And apparently airlines often carry them free as “Sporting Equipment”. In the right circumstances that will balance out any of the disadvantages of these boats.
    I am unsure why a hardshell canoe is inherently superior. I found on our recent trip to Finland that the Pakboat out performed the Old Town Discovery. It was faster on the flat water. The seating position is far more adjustable so I was able to achieve a much for comfortable paddling position.

    On moving water the Pakboat although loaded for more group kit was easier to turn especially from the bow than the Discovery. All of the group commented on how easy it was to control on moving water. I was able to surf the 17ft Pak easily solo.

    To be fair I also surfed the disco both kneeling and standing. It took much more effort to maintain bow angle in the plastic canoe.

    For expeditions I have found the Pak frame to be perfect to secure various items of kit. No need for lacing.

    I agree that the bow paddler requires a little more padding when kneeling than in the hardshell. I have badly damaged knees. Too many years of Ninjutsu and carrying heavy loads. I found that with a foam pad it was easy enough to knee during the longer rapids.

    Any force from rocks is transferred through the soft skin to one's knees. I found this was the incentive I needed to paddle moving water smarter.
    Less speed and with greater control to avoid ramming into rocks. The low to medium levels on the river made for some fun route finding.

    This is especially important on expedition regardless of boat manufacture. A damaged boat can be life threatening in real wilderness.

    I found it easy to portage the 17ft Pak when assembled. It comes with a carry yolk although I found it easy enough to carry on my shoulders.

    Even with a badly damaged shoulder and neck.
    The wet Pak boat takes a little bit of effort to disassemble especially the gunwhales. However now I have got the knack this is much easier.

    The Pak boat bag is made of pretty strong canvas. It's good to see Pakboats have not cut corners with the quality of the bag. It seems airport proof. The bag is generous enough to accommodate the canoe and spares with room to spare.

    I found carrying a damp canoe a tad awkward. After all I am not the tallest paddler ever. Yet it was manageable. I carried it around parts of Oulu. How many 17ft canoes can you leave in a left luggage locker?

    To conclude whilst I agree with Ameila that there are some things to consider when deciding to part with your hard earn't cash. I would certainly recommend a Pakboat to anyone.

    I am fortunate enough to own several canoes and kayaks. It seemed completely natural to add a Pakboat to my fleet for travelling. Just consider that to hire a canoe in country can cost over £150 for six days where transporting your Pakboat is almost free. My reason for paddling is to be able to reach remote wilderness.

    If I had to choose one canoe to meet the majority of my paddling needs then I would have to choose the Pak.

    I am happy to paddle grade 2 -3 in it. It handles flat water easily tracking well etc. You can purchase a spray deck for open water. I do a lot of sea paddling in my open canoe. I live 5 minutes from the sea.

    I think its a great all rounder and it can be easily repaired with simple tools and spares are readily available.

    I have tried to break one and so far have failed.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  21. #21
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    Could you clarify
    I think the review quite clearly explains what I see as the disadvantages. If you have any specific issues with anything I've said please ask.
    'Of all the paths you choose in life, make sure some of them are wet'

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Frame strength: The clips that hold the frame together are not massively strong, leading to the boats occasionally disassembling themselves down rapids, which was rather off putting. You will need to take a good size packet of cable ties.
    I preinstalled the cable ties and reuse them – very easy to do and gone is the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Flex: Because they aren’t rigid these boats flex when you paddle them. This can be rather off putting (and can lead to strange situations where one end of the boat capsizes and the other doesn’t… just make sure your bow paddler notices you’ve gone if this happens ). I wouldn’t want to play in one of these boats in the same way as I do in my normal canoe, but then again that isn’t what they are designed for. They feel weird, they don’t paddle like hard shell boats, but they paddle very capably.
    IMHO it is close to impossible to capsizes a PakCanoe – compared to a wenoah rendevouz my PakCanoe takes much less water – maybe a 10th of what the hard shell takes. I'm even using the PakCanoe for freestyle training – are you sure you tried the PakCanoe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Assembly: These boats do take a while to set up, and it is a much easier job with two people. This would be a major pain for short trips, but insignificant for longer trips.
    20 minutes if your are used to – but you can, if you like, put the PakCanoe (assembled) on the roof of your car – like you do with a hard shell – but with a folding canoe you have the option to put it in a bag… what is it you are asking for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Bulk: Disassembled the boats are fairly hefty, comparible to carrying a large rucksack. Mind you I don't think it would be possible to making a folding canoe any smaller and still keep it strong. You would need to factor this into any travel arrangements, as it would be difficult to manage the boat and all your stuff if you were using a lot of public transport. In the airport, into a taxi, into a train, etc would all be manageable if you planned your packing well. I should imagine a folding luggage trolley would make life a lot easier if your travel involved lots of transport changes.
    Did you try to use a taxi with a hard shell boat? You know an alternative with a smaller packing size? And yes, a trolley is very helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Bulk Knees: These boats can hurt your knees in two ways. First because you may find yourself kneeling on the aluminium struts, particularly the bow paddler. Take a kneeling mat, and use the boat’s bag as extra paddling. Also a risk you might not think of is if you hit any rocks under your knees it will be your knees that absorb the impact rather than the shell of the boat. This can be very painful and could be a major problem if you were in the wilds. It’s a risk to be aware of, though not one that would stop me using the boat. Again, a thick kneeling mat would probably help.
    True – but there are knee pads available or you use a mat – easy to solve – isn't it?

    cu

  23. #23
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    I just got back from paddling with a group and I used our demo 170. From emptying the bag to launch on my own was 33 minutes and 40 seconds! This is a personal best.

    It seems that the more I use it the easier it goes together. The gunnel rods are definitely much easier to push through as time goes by.


  24. #24
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    Default pak canoe seats

    i saw in amelia's image above that the canoe has one of those bench seats installed. does anyone have direct experience with both the bench seats, and the pedestal type seat?

    to see what i mean please have a look here, under 'pedestal' and 'pak canoe seat' you can find pictures of the two types.

    i'd be interested to know how the bench seat compares to the pedestal in terms of flexibility to install at different points along the length of the canoe and also hight-wise, and in terms of comfort for both sitting and kneeling position.

  25. #25
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    Lowlander.

    I have used the bench seats in Canada and Finland and have the pedestal seats on my solo 15 back in the UK.

    I really like the bench seats. There are very solidly constructed and give a firm point of contact with you and the canoe for moving water.

    The height is easily adjustable using the plastic retaining rings. I am unsure about seat position as I never needed to move them once they were installed.

    The bench seats are comparable to the seats I have in Dagger Reflection 15. Comfortable for long flat sections and responsive enough for the bouncy bits.

    I like the pedestal seats on the solo 15. I have 2 seats to use it tandem. They are comfortable enough but I think at some point I will invest in the bench seats. I have found the bench seats more secure on harder water.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  26. #26
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    thanks wayne. that's kind of what i was hoping to hear when i saw the pictures of the bench seat. i have now the pedestal seats that came with the canoe when i bought it. they're not bad but the bench seat looks like it may offer a firmer hold.

    re. moving them around: i meant installing them in different places, not moving them once you're on the water. i usually keep the pedestal seat in the lower position at all times so i think once i found the ideal height for the bench seat i wouldn't move it, either.

    i see that they make different bench seats for the bow and stern, respectively. have you tried if they would also fit in the middle, for solo use?
    are you restricted to certain positions when installing them in the canoe, like you are a bit with the pedestal considering that its bracket needs to fit the thwart you attach it to?

  27. #27

    Default hello, and some comments / questions on PakCanoe 165

    Hello all - nice to find a PakBoat forum here in UK. I bought a PakCanoe 165 a couple of years, as a canoe newbie, and have enjoyed it immensely for day / weekend camping trips in East Anglia - and am aiming for Scotland soon. A few comments after reading through this thread...

    1. Re-usable zip-ties: brilliant idea. After the supplied rubber bands have perished, I've found joints often "pop out", which can go un-noticed.

    2. Pedestal seats: while comfy enough, I've never found the attachment satisfactory. Despite careful strapping, seat legs have come loose several times, once puncturing the foam mat. I hate to think of them going right through the skin. I hadn't realised that bench-style seats are available from PakBoat. They look really nice - any UK stockists?

    3. Assembly: yes, vastly easier with two than one! And every time, I learn or work out some improvement. Also, vastly easier in warm weather, when the fabric coating is more pliable and stretchy. Assembling in a frosty morning is miserable...

    4. Assembly again: I've put different-coloured tape round the ends of some poles and at junctions: makes it much easier to pick the right piece.

    5. Transport: I bought the largest wheeled bag I could find, but this still doesn't fit everything in (although it makes quite a good passenger seat). I'd been been mentally devising some system for wheeled transport for the canoe in both its folded and assembled states - and have just been pleasantly surprised to find that it exists already! Does anyone have experience of the Eckla Foldy? (Search google for it: I'm not allowed to post links yet!) Again, any UK suppliers?

    6. Abrasion and repairs: any advise about what do do where the fabric has become scratched or scuffed? I'm worried about further damage in the same place. Just cover with duct tape? also, what best to carry in case of accidental punctures / holes / gashes?

    7. A scrap of old carpet: very useful as protection when pulling the canoe out over concrete moorings or when sliding it over a fence or gate!

    Cheers,
    Nick.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickmcw View Post
    5. Transport: I bought the largest wheeled bag I could find, but this still doesn't fit everything in (although it makes quite a good passenger seat). I'd been been mentally devising some system for wheeled transport for the canoe in both its folded and assembled states - and have just been pleasantly surprised to find that it exists already! Does anyone have experience of the Eckla Foldy? (Search google for it: I'm not allowed to post links yet!) Again, any UK suppliers?
    i use the bag that the canoe came in. once it falls apart beyond repair i think i'll just replace it with a similar size duffel bag. to this i attach a canoe trolley so i can roll it easily, and that can also be used on portages with the assembled canoe.
    the trolley i made myself from a sack trolley, like in this thread:
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...memade+trolley

    the eckla is lighter and folds up smaller. but the home made solution is much much cheaper, is virtually indestructible and carries a lot more weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickmcw View Post
    6. Abrasion and repairs: any advise about what do do where the fabric has become scratched or scuffed? I'm worried about further damage in the same place. Just cover with duct tape? also, what best to carry in case of accidental punctures / holes / gashes?
    don't use duct tape as it makes a permanent repair only harder. if you use duct tape you will need to carefully remove all residue from the tape's adhesive, before you can apply a permanent patch with vinyl adhesive.
    you can get a repair kit from pakboats that contains all the materials, the tough thick bottom part, the lighter skin fabric and the material used for the air tubes, as well as the vinyl adhesive. if you can't get your hands on such a kit you can buy the adhesive separately and look for suitable pvc fabric.
    once you have these items there is no need to use duct tape as applying a permanent patch literally takes only about a minute. the process is similar to patching a bicycle inner tube (but the same adhesive won't work on the skin of your pakcanoe!).

    on a longer trip it's good to have some duct tape, though, for repairs on the frame or other pieces of equipment (tent poles?) if required.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickmcw View Post
    7. A scrap of old carpet: very useful as protection when pulling the canoe out over concrete moorings or when sliding it over a fence or gate!
    i don't see a need for carrying this. the black skin covering the bottom of the packanoe is incredibly tough, abrasion won't be a problem if you handle the canoe like you should any hull. but if you drag a loaded canoe for longer stretches over concrete, or put it across a gate where the keel could bend under the weight of the gear then a carpet won't help you. i wouldn't treat any canoe this way. and if it's empty it's easy enough to lift it up

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    Thanks, Lowlander, for pointing out the thread on trolleys / transport - nice - and the advice on repairs. Cheers - Nick.

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    ... and here's a picture of my 'transport setup' with the bag on the trolley


  31. #31
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    Default pakcanoe and nautiraid folding canoes compared

    here's a comparison of the pakcanoe 165 with the nautiraid 520 that i published in the gear section:
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...k-observations

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