Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Appointment of Martin Salter to the Board of the Angling Trust

  1. #1

    Default Appointment of Martin Salter to the Board of the Angling Trust

    I've just been banned from the 'Fishing Magic' forum for criticising the record of Martin Salter, and his recent appointment to the board of the Angling Trust. I also referred to the Angling Trusts current policy towards navigation rights as fascism which didn't go down too well either. Originally the ban was for 1 month. However I have since posted critical statements about these moderating standards on other rival angling forums, and so the ban has now been extended indefinitely (zeig heil mein furer).

    I've been back over everything that I've written, and I really can't see that I've posted anything which warrants a banning, or which I would wish to retract.

    Sure, I've given Mark Lloyd and Martin Salter a bit of stick. But they're public figures. They can take it, and I really can't see that I've said anything worse than gets hurled across the floor of the House of Commons every day.

    Indeed, in the build up to the banning, Martin Salter actually came on the forum and challenged me to a public debate, which I accepted. In fairness to him, that would probably have diffused it. Unfortunately, as soon as I accepted his challenge, I was banned from the forum so I've now got no way of contacting him (what a let off!).

    So my questions to the forum are :

    1. Canoe England members have access to an exclusive forum. I'm not a member of Canoe England, so I can't get on, but generally, have they experienced many problems from disgruntled members? Have they ever had to ban someone over the issue of navigation rights? I ask this because as many will already know, the Angling Trust recently took their forum down due to an abundance of hostile posts.

    2. Could there be any merit in opening up Canoe Englands forum to non members as well? I'm sure it would involve a bit of hassle, but if one side could do it successfully, and moderate it properly, and the other side is unable to do it, then that's kinda difficult for the politicians to ignore.

    3. This site is probably the nearest comparable on the canoe side to the Fishing Magic forum, ie., open access, free membership etc. When was the last time you had to ban a disgruntled individual from this forum because of the access rights issue? I seem to recall a few problems with some guy called 'fishguard' a few years ago, but did you actually end up having to ban him?

    Looking forward to receiving the views of the forum ......

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    Without having bothered to enjoy the entertainment of the Fishing Magic forum, are you really that concerned about washed up Martin Salter? Having left the sinking Labour ship in Reading prior to the last election, he was recently transported home after an unsuccessful attempt to stick his nose into matters down under. If you'd like a sample of Martin Salter's semi-literate response to the issue of shared waterways read post #34 here (where I was kind in my transcription): http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...-Autumn-Paddle

    Do you really think he's such a stunning ambassador for fishing interests?...



    I think he's a bit tired...


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    706

    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Sobranie, Have you got link to your 'offending' posts on fishingmagic, it sounds an interesting exchange of views ?

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
    Sobranie, Have you got link to your 'offending' posts on fishingmagic, it sounds an interesting exchange of views ?
    This link is copied from a copy which I can't use any more : http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/f...ture-comments/ You might be able to, I can't get on the site to veryfy it one way or the other. I suppose I could log on with a different email address, but I really can't be bothered.

    From the angling side, I've taken the debate to this place : http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/M...-t3928050.html

    I'm posting on this forum under a pseudonim, sobranie. But on those forums I was posting under my real name, Andy Youngs. I've got nothing to hide.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    I slipped and read this:
    Originally Posted by martinsalter
    Andy...we really should have a chat, just you and me if you like or a debate in front of a few hundred anglers...if you've got the balls that is ?

    Cheers
    Martin

    Take him up on it with the proviso that it will be recorded and he will have to produce documentary evidence for everything that comes out of his mouth.

    I thought little enough of him from his previous diatribes, but from the above quote, he really does come across as a rather distasteful person.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Without having bothered to enjoy the entertainment of the Fishing Magic forum, are you really that concerned about washed up Martin Salter?
    I wasn't, until the Angling Trust appointed him as a director.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Having left the sinking Labour ship in Reading prior to the last election, he was recently transported home after an unsuccessful attempt to stick his nose into matters down under
    It was explained to me as an 18 month fact-finding mission. Perhaps it could be more accurately described as "18 months sitting on my arse on Bondi Beach, sipping pink gin, and pontificating to the locals about the importance of fisheries management". I can't believe they put up with him for that long. There was a time that you needed a criminal record to get into Australia. Now it seems you need one to get out of Australia and back into the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Do you really think he's such a stunning ambassador for fishing interests?...
    No. He did for angling what Hitler did for world peace.

    Just for the record though, I think the photos are a bit harsh. I've also smoked a fag, drank a G & T, and fallen asleep in a meeting before. But I don't think I've ever managed to divide a nation llike he has .... In any event, he was stupid enough to challenge me to a "public debate in front of 200 anglers". What I don't think he realised, is that if there is a public debate, then in addition to the 200 anglers present, there are also likely to be 200 canoeists, and 200 representatives of the Recreational Sea Anglers.
    Last edited by sobranie; 26th-December-2011 at 11:20 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Take him up on it with the proviso that it will be recorded and he will have to produce documentary evidence for everything that comes out of his mouth
    Yeah, I think I've got that angle covered John. The difficulty is getting him to sit down in front of a microphone. Once cornered, people tend to become elusive ....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Braintree, Essex
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Most entertaining read, only up to page 6 of 16, will have to read the rest later. So far I cannot see a reason why you could have been banned. All you did was voice your opinion, seems they banned you for being a canoeist

    My favourite quote from Stupid people, what makes him stupid is he obviously knows nothing about the condition

    Sadly for My Youngs, and I take in the possibility that he may suffer from Aspergers syndrome
    Linky for others as sobranie can't do it
    SF Peterborough 14'
    weighs 7 Stone! 44.5kg
    Bell Yellowstone (so light)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    706

    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Sobrannie,


    Have you noticed that when there is a kernel of truth, you rail against it more ferociously ?

    They did not seem to mind you saying that this bloke is a w###### [is that how you spell it ?].

    But, when you said that the Anglers Truss is a nest of FASCISTS, that was it, 'steady on old chap'

    Monicels were falling into G & Ts across the home Counties, dogs were kicked off sofas, and servants

    abused more than normal, Keep it up.

  10. #10

    Default

    I know what you mean Hyperion.

    It is abundantly obvious to me that the f******t word is definitely more potent than the w******r word. That's why I try not to use either of those terms, except under extreme provokation.

    With the editors permission, I'll continue to present my views as clearly as possible.

  11. #11

    Default

    For the record, this is the extent of the exchange to date :

    Sobranie : "You challenged me to a public debate in front of several hundred anglers. You still interested?"

    Martin Salter : "Absolutely. I sent you a personal message but got no reply. How about at the Angling Trust AGM in June? Cheers, Martin

    Sobranie : "Thanks for the message Martin. Unfortunately got banned from the FM forum, so was unable to pick your message up. My suggestion would be discussion in front of a public audience. Perhaps 35% Canoe England, 35% Angling Trust, 10% Recreational Sea Anglers, 20% public. How does that sound? Rather not have TV camera's present, I find it un-nerving. But if you insist we could talk about it. And no, I don't think the Angling Trust AGM is a very sensible venue for that type of discussion."

    RESPONSE AWAITED

    I'll keep you posted
    Last edited by sobranie; 31st-December-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    459

    Default

    It should be filmed. It also needs a moderator who is neither an angler, canoeist, or wild swimmer. Otherwise I can absolutely guarantee that it will degenerate into a shouting match.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    706

    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    It should be filmed. It also needs a moderator who is neither an angler, canoeist, or wild swimmer. Otherwise I can absolutely guarantee that it will degenerate into a shouting match.

    I agree with SimonMW, if this is to have any worth, it needs to chaired by an impartial person, certainly not at the

    Anglers Truss AGM, to many fascists !, and some form of record made, preferably on film.

  14. #14

    Default

    I know. I agree with both of you. There also needs to be a debating panel comprising 4 representatives, Canoe England (??), Angling Trust (Salter), Recreational Sea Anglers (??) and Independent (me).

    Plus a chairman of course. My dreamteam choice would be Jeremey Paxman. Sure, he's an angler, but I would trust him to discharge that function properly. I doubt if it's gonna happen ... he's a very busy man.

    In any event, I still haven't heard back from Salter (no surprises there then).

    Happy New Year everyone.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    459

    Default

    The other thing is, what would the debate outcome be? Ie, would the debate minutes be submitted or be considered by anyone of importance?

    I also think that to be of any useful constructive nature the whole debate should revolve around coming to some sort of understanding and reasoning. For example a case should be made at the beginning. Such as the canoeing and recreational side (hopefully wild swimmers and other recreational users being represented too) should make a statement at the beginning. For example "We would like to demonstrate through worldwide empirical evidence, and sound reasoning, why rivers should be open for navigational and recreational use. We are not interested in finger pointing over issues such as who leaves the most litter etc. We simply want to demonstrate through evidence based, and moral reasoning, why the current situation is unacceptable, and why the demands of voluntary access agreements do not work." The angling/landowning side would also make an opening statement of their own.

    Just off the top of my head. I believe also that each reasoned case should initially be made by speakers who cannot be interrupted. Then to further reduce the risk of the debate falling into a "He says, she says" mess, it might be worth following this with a format of one side being able to ask questions of the other, turn by turn. So somebody from the canoeing side could ask Mr Salter directly, for an example of one question, whether he can see the parallel of asking a canoeist to pay a license being the same as asking a Rambler or country walker to pay a walking license because Grouse hunters also have to pay a hunting license to be on the same land, and whether he thinks that in light of his comments whether he would think that to be reasonable?

    If each party could ask direct questions of the other, with a zero tolerance to hecklers, they would be forced to confront specific issues directly with nowhere to run. It would also be civilised and not degenerate. Relevant media journalists could also be invited to watch the proceedings.
    Last edited by SimonMW; 31st-December-2011 at 06:18 PM.

  16. #16

    Default

    Last edited by sobranie; 31st-December-2011 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Spot on SimonMW, if it's done it must be done properly otherwise it's a waste of a valuable opportunity to put forward our case, and a waste of the considerable effort put in by many forum members that has got us this far.


    Paul
    Just goin with the flow

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •