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Thread: Wenonah Argosy 14'6

  1. #1
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    Default Wenonah Argosy 14'6

    Maker's Spec






    Kevlar Ultra-light 32lb.
    Kevlar Flex-core 41lb.
    Royalex 45lb.
    *Weights published are for canoes with all standard equipment

    Maker's Write Up
    Our newest solo canoe, the Argosy, focuses on river touring. Designed by Dave Kruger, this agile new solo will feel right at home in rivers and streams. moderate bow rocker allows this nimble solo to predictably cross eddylines with confidence. Extra volume in the sides (a Kruger trademark) allows this canoe to be leaned predictably, further enhancing roughwater performance.

    The new 14'6" Argosy joins our larger solo, the Rendezvous – as well as the tandem Rogue and Cascade – as a down-sized, yet river friendly solo. Although it is the same length as our recreational solo the Vagabond, this canoe features more rocker (especially near the bow), more depth amidships, more bow flare and deeper ends to help keep the canoe dry in moderate whitewater. With slightly more rocker than many of our models, the Argosy excels in paddling through moving water, yet still glides through calm water effortlessly.
    Last edited by SunburyAndy; 3rd-January-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    If you search the forums here for 'Argosy' you will find quite a few trip reports and comments. I have lifted an earlier mini review of the Argosy I did from one of these where Matto (who has the Yellowstone Solo) and I (with the Argosy) tried out each others boats and made some comments.
    Matto:
    All in all it was a very pleasant sociable morning's paddle. Ed and Greg did a bit of poling, and there was much swapping of boats. Rob and I were particularly interested in each other's boats as on paper they are VERY similar. However on the water it must be said they feel very different. The Argosy seemed mmore responsive at the bow, whilst the Yellowstone seemed more responsive at the stern. I personally found I had trouble keeping the Argosy in a straight line, although that could be lack of familiarity. The Gunwales seemed higher also which should keep you drier in moving water. Bizarrely we both felt each others boats were more stable than our own. Not sure whether that says more about our paddling or our boats. We agreed that if you demo'd both boats it would be difficult to chose between them. They are definitley more different than they would appear to be, and I would guess most folks would just go with a gut feel for which they preferred. At the end of the day I think they're both good boats.

    Rob:
    Firstly why would you consider either of these boats? They are both sheerly indulgent specialised solos rather than versatile do everything boats. 14.5 foot or so, slender, lightweight (for Royalex) and aimed at both moderate white water and good speed between the rapids as well. A word of caution, if you look at the Wenonah web site you get the idea that the Argosy is a dedicated white water boat like the more highly rockered (and slower) Supernova but it isn't. Wenonah typically make fast high performance gentle water boats and its all a matter of perspective, this being the whitewater end of their range.

    Both boats are modern 'hot' designs asymetric in both hull shape and rocker - pretty identical at 14.5 feet with 2.25" rocker at the bow and 1.25 at the stern. Both designs are much the same length, weight and hull profile. That is narrow rounded hulls with tumblehome that react quickly and give good performance and at the price of minimal initial stability - beginners boats they are not and I got quite quickly when I was a bit careless.

    Design wise they are substantially similar with the exception of the bows. The Yellowstone has much fuller bows that should give more buoyancy over waves. The Argosy has a very sharp fine bow that looks as if it will bury easily but has flare above the waterline that deflects water well and surprisingly somehow rides up standing waves as well - I'm impressed. The Argosy provides more freeboard and as such should be a bit drier but more susceptable to windage. Both boats are very nicely put together and good quality.

    So the boats are much the same and do much the same job. Both are good boats and anyone after their sort of thing should be happy with either, so do they feel the same? No, definitely NOT. As soon as you paddle off in the Yellowstone it feels instantly more dependable, tracks much straighter and feels in general much more solid - moving the weight forward in the Argosy just doesn't recreate the same feeling. The Argosy is a much more 'flighty' afair feeling quite willful yet promising much if paddler and boat can learn to sing the same song. Subjective stuff aside the Argosy is a quicker boat on the flat, both paddle well, accelerate quickly and glide and easily at normal speed, pushing hard the Argosy is really quick for a rockered boat while the Yellowstone's fuller bow creates a distinct wave and slows between strokes.

    I agree with Matto regarding the steering, for the Yellowstone tracks more with stern steering strokes seemingly more effective, in tight turns the stern slides across nicely with the pivot point perhaps a liitle in front of the paddler. The Argosy responds much more quickly to bow steering strokes - yet it does feel sort of poised on a knife edge and ready to do its own thing at the drop of a hat!

    They are both great boats, do the same job, should feel much the same, but definitely don't.
    With Hindsight:
    Having had the Argosy for quite a few trips now I can say that I am absolutely delighted with it. It is light and quick to accelerate, nicely manoeverable and fast between the rapids. It isn't quite as fast as it feels as it is after all a 14'6" boat not some long thin lakes traveller but it keeps up quite comfortably with many 15 and 16' boats and is less effort to keep at a cruising speed than most. If you want a solo for moderate whitewater bits without sacrificing flatwater performance this may well be the boat for you.
    I'm about 85Kg and find the boat responds well for me. It is nice and maneoverable BUT when travelling quickly on flat water the behaviour changes and it seems to harden up and lock on track behaving as a boat with much longer waterline - I quite like this but it is a little unsettling to start with. Speculating a bit I think that this is because the pressure of water from the bow wave effectively extends the waterline forwards and there is a steeply sided bow at that point. Laurence is not much more than half my weight and she also likes the boat (too much!) and finds it highly manoeverable at all speeds. Because the boat is so slim you can effectively use cross deck strokes without having to change position and the sharp ends allow you to effectively adjust trim by just leaning backwards and forwards a bit from the kneeling position yet the pronounced flare keeps them dry.
    There is a very clever adjustable seat which allows you four positions for kneeling or sitting. I always kneel as the boat feels nicely connected and stable like this, sitting it really is a bit too wobbly for comfort. The seat is clever, comfortable and I can just get my size 14s in wellies under it in the winter in the higher position, that said it is a nuisance at times getting it back in position as this tends to be lost when carrying it around. It may eventually come out in favour of a pedestal and straps.
    Lastly it, despite the highish sides, handles very well in the wind. Strong headwinds require the usual careful paddling and a bit of bow trim to keep things under control but even the strongest beam winds are no problem. I have been paddling up river with strong side gusts causing me to drift sideways as fast as I was paddling yet the boat remained stable and stayed on course without requiring correction.
    Build quality is excellent although spartan. The vinyl/aluminium gunwhales are nicely made and solid. The Royalex seems incredibly soft and easily marked but I think this is due to it being a very new boat just out of the mould, it is a nice stiff hull helped by both the rounded hull shape and some strategically placed internal stiffening within the Royalex layers - in any event it doesn't oil can at all.
    One more - is it tippy??
    If you are used to a spec boat the Argosy will feel like a barge. If you are used to a tandem it will feel incredibly tippy and rocky at first. In actual fact all these little slim solos (Argosy,Yellowstone,Freedom,Supernova) seem to have a common thread in that they react much quicker. They do have good secondary stability and you can easily lean them to where the gunwhales go under but the problem is that if you are careless and off balance they tip quickly - even if the boat stays stable you may be in the water. Be prepared to get wet initially and you will grow to love it although I don't suggest it as a first boat if you have not been in a canoe before.
    Last edited by gwing; 1st-March-2007 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Fix font and added to comments.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


  3. #3
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    Having only previously paddled on flat/open water in my Ranger 16, I was looking for a lighter, more manouverable boat to start paddling on moving/whitewater, and a few people pointed me towards the Argosy. I demoed one recently for a few hours on the canal, then a weekend on the Barle, which was my first time on moving water.

    My impression of the Argosy is that it's a lovely lightweight boat that's very capable in the bumpy stuff. However, being narrow and round bottomed it's not stable. This makes it hard to get in and out of, and made me quite tentative with my strokes - I couldn't edge it, as I was just trying my best to keep it upright! After talking to some people with a lot more experience than me the conclusion seems to be that the Argosy is not a suitable boat for those with little/no moving water experience - one of the 15', more wide/flat bottomed models of canoe would be a more suitable choice, and I'll be buying something like a Prospector 15 instead. I also wouldn't fancy poling it!

    Other points I noted were:
    - the multi-angle seat seemed like a good idea, but with 5-10 canyoneers on my feet would get a bit trapped underneath when kneeling. I was always able to extract them when I capsized, but it wasn't a nice feeling! Might be better with less chunky shoes.
    - it's a nice looking boat
    - it marks easily, though that's probably common to all royalex boat
    - being able to carry it over one shoulder is brilliant!
    - the wooden carrying handles are a nice touch

    There is a thread with interesting photos and comments from another Argosy owner at http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...ead.php?t=3261.

    Some photos below. The red one was the one I borrowed, the green one is Gwing's on the Barle trip.




    From L to R - Gwing's Argosy, the Argosy I borrowed, a Yellowstone Solo








    Someone else's photo I borrowed from the Barle trip Blogg
    Last edited by Amelia; 9th-March-2007 at 12:22 PM.

  4. #4

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    Argosy:
    I have had mine for about 6 months now and I love it, this is my second canoe, my first was a pelican navigator which served me well and was a really good starter boat. The argosy took some time to choose, I deliberated over several solos, Bell Yellowstone, O/T Pack, Nova Craft Supernova, Wenonah Vagabond, and the Argosy. I settled on the Vagabond and ordered it, was waiting for delivery, but I kept coming back to the Argosy, on the Wenonah stats table it out performed the vagabond in every way and the main reason was that it had more capacity and was deeper as I weigh 16 stone.
    Pros:
    Light: can easily be carried on one shoulder,and lifted above the head by both the thwarts for car topping.

    Fast: you can cover a lot of miles with ease (i'm only comparing this to my pelican mind you).

    Comfort: The adjustable seat for kneeling or sitting is great with various postions for both, in the pic below its in the high kneel position, I use this or the lowest seating postion. Some people say its not a canoe for sitting but i find this fine although when kneeling it feels rock solid.

    Build: It seems a well put together boat, with quality materials apart from the royalex (we will get to that bit soon)

    Looks: Its a good looking canoe (my opinion anyway).

    Useage: Rivers, flatwater and fully loaded with camping gear it handles them all.

    Cons:
    Stability: At first it feels tippy but you soon get use to it and start to explore the limits I can now stand up in it on calm days and paddle sitting in quite large waves.

    Royalex: this dents for fun even inside its really soft you can mark it with you fingers if you press it hard enough. I think this is common on all Argosys and a lot of new Royalex boats though.

    Tracking: It will track straight into the wind and cross the wind okay, but get a following wind of any strength and know matter how you trim her stern heavy /stern light or neutral, you will find it hard to keep in a straight line.



    [IMG}http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u267/retro4848/lancastercanal1sept07001.jpg[/IMG]

    Heres a pic of mine fitted out with stainless steel p-clips and dome headed hex bolts through the gunnels for the air bags and gear loops. I picked the off white colour as I like it and it the sratches dont show up so much but you do have to keep it clean as it gets a tide mark round it after paddling.
    Hope this is of use.
    Regards Retro
    Last edited by MagiKelly; 28th-September-2007 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Fixing picture link (and also failing)


  5. #5

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    My girlfriend is thinking of buying an Argosy to replace her Prospector for ww and flat water paddling due to its size.

    One question we have is 'does any have any suggestions as to where you could fix a sailing thwart and mast foot for this boat?'

    Ray H

  6. #6

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    I have made a clamp on plate that fits to the front thwart with a couple of wing nuts. A mast step is glued permanently to the hull below.

    I think you'd have to be very brave to use a big sail though- unless you wanted to sit on the gunwales and weren't too worried about an occaisional swim!

    Chris
    "All right" said Eeyore "We're going. Only don't blame me"

    www.canoepaddler.me.uk

  7. #7
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    The Argosy and the YS are far different boats. The hulll shape is entirely different. There is far more to canoe design than width depth and rocker. Its a shame that canoe makers do not describe the hull at all. Kayaks are described with various graphs and stability curves.

    Argosy has its width down low. This means it passes the point of no return more quickly for the unwary than YS which has its fullness just before the shoulder tucks in for tumblehome.


    Neither YS or Argosy are WW boats so especially the Argosy with its pinched bow is apt to scoop water. Needs float bags. YS does better at shedding the wave trains.

  8. #8
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    Default Length

    Is it 15'6 or 14'6, any boats I find on the net are 14'6

  9. #9

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    14'6.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    Is it 15'6 or 14'6, any boats I find on the net are 14'6
    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    14'6.
    Must admit I thought it was a new boat when I saw 15'6. I have amended the original title to avoid future confusion.

  11. #11
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    Default Not 14'6" either

    Ya know, that 14'6" is just fiction. The waterline length is more like 13'10".

    The other 8 inches arent in the water and are bow and stern overhang. Just Once I would like to see a Length at Waterline spec from Wenonah.
    "Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing." WS-prophecy about internet postings.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post
    Ya know, that 14'6" is just fiction. The waterline length is more like 13'10".

    The other 8 inches arent in the water and are bow and stern overhang. Just Once I would like to see a Length at Waterline spec from Wenonah.
    Yup, but if you only had 14'6 of storage then the real length figure would count, no good saying it's 13'10" at the water when there 8inch sticking out of the garage and you cant shut the door.


  13. #13
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    Have just bought an argosy - and love it. It's a dream to get on and off the car solo, and enough fun to make a solo paddle special. Feels tippy at first - but actually is very stable when heeled and under way.A fast and responsive boat which offers a range of paddling options ( good for ageing knees!)..... from using the seat as a kneeling thwart ( good into the wind) to sitting on the seat with one leg tucked under (good for cruising) to kneeling right behind the rear thwart using a moveable saddle ( good for downwind, reduces need to J in calm conditions and good against a current).
    Goes best using an otter tail paddle.
    Have yet to see if it will take my expedition gear - I'll need to wait for a bit warmer weather first !

  14. #14

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    Just seen a second hand one on e bay... Should i put a bid in ? It looks a bit rough.

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    I've whinged a couple of times on SotP about Wenonah not offering the Argosy in Tuf-weave. Turns out you just have to ask:



    RRP $1259US; 44lbs/20kgs.

    Tracking is better than I expected, as is the secondary stability. It is quite trim sensitive. But a dry bag with a change of clothes, etc, tied to the rear thwart seems to balance it out pretty well. So far, so good...
    Last edited by sohojacques; 25th-February-2012 at 09:33 AM.

  16. #16
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    Yes I found that out and ordered one.....due 8th March
    Hopefully it won't chuck me out when I get it as I have yet to actually try one. My present canoe is a Prism....hopefully the Argosy not a lot more twitchy than that.
    I've ordered mine in Ivory and Tuffweave so I think it's the same as your one in the picture above.(although that does appear to have black gunwhales).
    I paid about the same amount but in UK pounds
    Wenoanah are still not listing the Tuffweave option in their catalogue......think that is a mistake on their part.
    Now all the gear but still no idea.

  17. #17

    Default Argosy

    [QUOTE=Woody123;385433]Yes I found that out and ordered one.....due 8th March
    Hopefully it won't chuck me out when I get it as I have yet to actually try one. My present canoe is a Prism....hopefully the Argosy not a lot more twitchy than that.
    I've ordered mine in Ivory and Tuffweave so I think it's the same as your one in the picture above.(although that does appear to have black gunwhales).
    I paid about the same amount but in UK pounds
    Wenoanah are still not listing the Tuffweave option in their catalogue......think that is a mistake on their part.[/QUOTEI brought my Argosy at least 3 months
    ago and not used it yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, Tomorrow is the big day ! Brought new in the end . Red with air bags fitted, from Nucleus watersports in Friton Essex. £ 1150.00. that was the best price I could get , and I shopped around .Going to take it to Stour river in the shallows at first, see what happens? This will be the smallest and lightest Canadian I've had .. Looking forward to it but also a little worried in case I don't like it after spending so much money. However, I did the research so should be brill ! I'll keep you posted . ttfn

  18. #18

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    I brought my Argosy at least 3 months
    ago and not used it yet!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, Tomorrow is the big day ! Brought new in the end . Red with air bags fitted, from Nucleus watersports in Friton Essex. £ 1150.00. that was the best price I could get , and I shopped around .Going to take it to Stour river in the shallows at first, see what happens? This will be the smallest and lightest Canadian I've had .. Looking forward to it but also a little worried in case I don't like it after spending so much money. However, I did the research so should be brill ! I'll keep you posted . ttfn

  19. #19
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    Was the £1150 for a Tuffweave layup? or was that Royalex.
    Now all the gear but still no idea.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody123 View Post
    Wenoanah are still not listing the Tuffweave option in their catalogue......think that is a mistake on their part.
    They used to but stopped listing it due to a lack of demand. A bit odd I think, as the Tuf-weave lay up equals good bang for your buck. It's hardly more expensive than the RX version, especially when you consider it comes with the footbrace as standard; a $45US option on the RX version and over half the difference in price. Wenonah rate the Tuf-weave construction as their most durable (whatever that translates too...) yet it only weighs 1lb more than the kevlar Flexcore version while costing $550US less.

    If you can handle the Prism I can't see why the Argosy would give you any real trouble Woody123. Just pay close attention to the trim. Without the dry bag on the rear thwart the bow digs in. But what works for me...

  21. #21

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    Dear friends of the forum,i'm going to buy an argosy in carbon ultralight(graphite),because i absolutely need of a lightest boat,to use only on the sea(i live in southeast of Italy...no lakes or rivers,only the sea).What do you think?Was i going the right choise?I'd buy happily a prism but it's too long for me..i haven't a garage so i have to place my canoe at home.So my only possiblities,are yaqui or canoki 400 wood gunnel or argosy.What do you think?What should i do?I'm desperate,please help me...
    About argosy i'me worried cause someone of you says that it is tippy,or that it cannot go straight not a bit too.Please answer me i'm very confused..

  22. #22
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    I don't really know what to say Samuel... I'd definitely pick the Argosy out of those 3 myself... Sure you don't want a kayak, or a decked canoe like Wenonah's Mini Canak?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    So my only possiblities,are yaqui or canoki 400 wood gunnel or argosy.
    The Argosy is perhaps a better sea-canoe than most, as is Solway Dory's UK built Little Egret. I'd prefer a Swift Osprey (available from Carinthian Canoe Base: just over the border from Italy, and run by a couple whose many languages include Italian). For other good options contact Jörg Wagner: what's right for you would depend on your size and how much you want to carry in the boat... but he's got some very seaworthy boats from Hemlock (Kestrel, Peregrine, SRT) and may still have others of interest in his store (his Bell Magic's may be too long, and I think he's out of Placid Boatworks Rapidfires... but his inventory is too extensive for me to recall all options).

  24. #24

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    Thank you very much to everybody, i'm forgiving another thing:i dislike kneeling,only sitting and a last question:if 2 canoes are very similar,same lenght,same width,same high,but 1 has a minimal rocker and the other a more accentuated rocker,wich is stabler?

  25. #25

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    Hi GregandGinaS,i bought Yaqui,in carbon and now i'm going to buy another canoe;I contacted Carinthian canoe base,for osprey...combi,what do you think?Many thanks

  26. #26
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    This is getting a little off topic for a discussion of the Wenonah Argosy... but the STANDARD Swift Osprey remains (to my mind) the most seaworthy canoe in that 14'-15' x 30" range. I would love one, and find the seating position to be excellent FOR ME.

    The Swift Osprey Combo is the same hull, but with a seat on the floor: OK if that's what you want...

  27. #27
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    On the question of rocker and stability, adding rocker does not *necessarily* add stability, but rocker does tend to promote stability. In a whitewater canoe, as the hull is tipped, rocker adds resistance to tipping. A rockered boat may "sit" more stably between wave crests.

    On lakes and the ocean, rocker will help stability only if the ends of the hull are sharp enough to take a proper "bite" in waves. If the ends of a boat are so rounded that they can't take such a bite, then rocker doesn't help much.

  28. #28
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    Wenonah Argosy - demo'd one recently.
    initial stability - what initial stability?
    secondary stability - what secondary stability?
    Perhaps that's a bit harsh and due to a lack of paddling skills but that's how I feel about it. I was almost too nervous to change from sitting to kneeling and back again?
    Tracked well though and didn't need much correction.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy View Post
    due to a lack of paddling skills

    You have it it in a nutshell there Landy, I have one and it's the first boat I reach for fast light responsive, use it on lake river and sea done many a trip in it as well, it's a canoe that grows with the paddler never fell out of mine in seven years. But you do have to grab it by the balls and let it know your the boss!


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    But you do have to grab it by the balls and let it know your the boss!
    A guy in our club got grabbed by the balls ( as you elegantly put it ) by an Argosy while reaching for his camera on sheltered flat water.
    He agrees on the "no initial or secundaire stability" issue.

    But then: I also saw him going for a swim while bending over to pick up his lunch bag on a quiet part of the Dourbie in a Swift Raven. ("hitting" a rock submerged only 5 centimeters in almost but not completely still water)

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    You have it it in a nutshell there Landy, I have one and it's the first boat I reach for fast light responsive, use it on lake river and sea done many a trip in it as well, it's a canoe that grows with the paddler never fell out of mine in seven years. But you do have to grab it by the balls and let it know your the boss!
    No its not ...the hull shape has a bit to do with the lack of secondary stability. You can grab its balls all you want but until you alter the hull shape with a large mallet and iron its for naught.

    Falling out and capsizing are not the same. I haven't fallen out of mine. I have capsized it. Try heeling it all the way to the rail and report back. Remember do not lean your own body..falling out not allowed.
    "Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing." WS-prophecy about internet postings.

  32. #32

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    So its not fast light and responsive? must just be me then. Capsize/ fall out that's just splitting words.


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    So its not fast light and responsive? must just be me then. Capsize/ fall out that's just splitting words.
    I tried capsizing my Wenonah Advantage, just to see where to "point of no return" would be (without putting my weight on the gunnel), but the result was that I went swimming and not a drop of water in the boat.

  34. #34

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    My osprey is unitll tis moment the opposite of digger . I have been sinking it a number of times to find it's point of no return. it fills up to the gunnels . but never seenit tunr over or that I have fallen out.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    I went swimming
    so is that the same as capsizing and falling out?


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro View Post
    So its not fast light and responsive? must just be me then. Capsize/ fall out that's just splitting words.
    Keep your head within the boundaries of the gunwales. No the Argosy is not fast. Its L/W ratio at the waterline is 5.9. Most fast solos run 6.5-7 for ratio. The higher the number the faster the boat tends to be. And its only 14 feet long at the waterline. If you have the Kevlar layup its light enough. Its relatively heavy in its RX version.

    The reason it SEEMS fast may be psychological..Depeds on what you have been paddling in the past.

    It is a bubble sided hull. Go look at it. Where is the bubble? Down low. Higher bubbles have more secondary stability. If you push the heel so the rail is touching the water, that wide spot low down has long ago passed below your center of mass and is now in the wrong place. This aids ejection.

    If you have been ejected by your smiling dry canoe, I will bet you a pint that your head got outside of the gunwale. Otherwise the sinking when the low point passes beneath you would be vertical.!

    Wanna play? Its actually fun doing comparative capsizes. Maybe not today. Brr.
    "Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing." WS-prophecy about internet postings.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post

    The reason it SEEMS fast may be psychological..Depeds on what you have been paddling in the past.

    .
    It also depends on what's avalible in the uk! Take a carbon kevlar prism for example yes its faster and its more stable due to the high ratio of width to lentgh but its also not as much fun to paddle straight lines arnt that excting!

    As for past paddling canoes have come and gone but the argosy always remains, I like it a lot and when its worn out, it will be replaced with another in maybe a better lay up.

    And I can self rescue in it, it has really small air bags much smaller than ones normally found in the uk, (but let's not go there ) for my sea paddling.


  38. #38

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    As it is a small hull the skin friction is pretty low so although it's top speed is not that high it accelerates easily to a nice paddling speed.

    2ndary Stability- not as good as the osprey or my wildfire but OK as long as you are aware of the limits. Fell out of mine a few times but my fault not the canoe. I also learned how to self-rescue and was able to pole it. Probably not a canoe for those large of girth though!
    "All right" said Eeyore "We're going. Only don't blame me"

    www.canoepaddler.me.uk

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Randall View Post
    As it is a small hull the skin friction is pretty low so although it's top speed is not that high it accelerates easily to a nice paddling speed.

    2ndary Stability- not as good as the osprey or my wildfire but OK as long as you are aware of the limits. Fell out of mine a few times but my fault not the canoe. I also learned how to self-rescue and was able to pole it. Probably not a canoe for those large of girth though!

    Most speedy canoes never are paddled to their full potential. John Winters (Osprey designer)wrote of a racer that wanted a very long very narrow boat for a specific race. It was designed and built. And the guy lost badly. Too much skin friction for his horsepower to drive to full speed.

    Little boats do better for acceleration. That's one reason people who do American FreeStyle want twelve to fourteen foot boats for the most part. Competitions are in a limited space and allow only for three or four acceleration strokes.
    "Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing." WS-prophecy about internet postings.

  40. #40
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    The Argosy is relatively light in RX, yellowcanoe, when compared with other RX solos. Comparing its weight to composite canoes that cost double or more of its rrp is a moot point.

    You just have to look at hull shape to know that an Osprey or Wildfire would be more well behaved heeled to the rail. But retro is right: to say that it has no secondary stability points to a deficiency with the paddler, not the boat. And while the bubble-side of the Argosy undeniably reduces its stability when gunwale-dipping, it also greatly facilitates bent shaft paddle access to the water when paddled seated. Everything is a compromise.
    Last edited by sohojacques; 2nd-November-2012 at 08:51 PM.

  41. #41

    Default Wenonah Argosy

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody123 View Post
    Was the £1150 for a Tuffweave layup? or was that Royalex.

    Royalex...Used the boat a lot since i last wrote a post .. Not impressed Tippy and very slow ! Still it floats so thats a result .

  42. #42
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    Tippy I can accept.....I have put a Kayak seat in mine and dropped it down to around 3" which has improved the tippyness dramatically..........and I can't kneel because of age and bad feet/knees...........slow?.....never tried a Royalex one....so I cannot comment....but it accelerates as fast as my Prism did from a standstill......obviously not as fast top speed but I don't feel there's a lot in it.......and with my giant double ender it really gets a move on.....maybe the royalex is a different beast......although Retro would be better to comment.
    Now all the gear but still no idea.

  43. #43

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    ​Liking the kayak seat idea ... May try that in my agtippy... oooops argosy


  44. #44
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    Hi everyone

    I am going to bump the thread with a question. I have decided to buy a solo boat this year. Been waiting a loooong time for this. I am looking at an Argosy or a Rendezvous - both royalex. I weigh around 90 kilos and anticipate using the boat mostly for flatwater, day trips and camping trips with some grade I-II whitewater. I have the skills and experience to cope with the stability issues. I like the Argosy for the weight as I'll be getting it on and off the car alone.

    But I have a nagging feeling ... should I go for the Rendezvous instead?

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Chris

    P.S.
    Earlier this year I asked about kevlar Prospectors. I haven't gone nuts, the solo boat comes first, a kevlar Prospector sometime later.
    Last edited by Umiariaq; 22nd-April-2013 at 10:42 PM.

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    I have a argosy on its way in Tuffweave. I have paddled one a fair bit as I got to borrow Toptec's for a few trips. It's a fantastic boat! There is a lot of difference between the RV and the Argosy... If your wanting a flat water/easy moving water solo boat then the Argosy wins hands down! However for river running upto g3 the RV has the edge do the the freeboard and fuller stems. For me i have OC1's for. Whitewater so the argosy was for my solo paddles on river/canals and lakes with kit for a day/weekend..
    Mat

    Love many, Trust few, Always paddle your own Canoe....

    www.UKhammocks.co.uk

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    Thanks Mat

    Your description of what you use your different boats for fits with what I have in mind. I think it'll have to be the Argosy.

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    Glad I've helped mate!
    Mat

    Love many, Trust few, Always paddle your own Canoe....

    www.UKhammocks.co.uk

  48. #48
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    No one has mentioned height.. much more important for a solo than weight. I don't think the Rendezvous has a skegged stern. They Argosy does for the intermediate paddler. The reach in the Rendezous is too much for me; I am short.
    "Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing." WS-prophecy about internet postings.

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    I'd agree that the Rendezvous is better for average to taller-than-average. As a tall, cab-forward paddler, I hope I am never saddled with a skegged stern boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwing View Post
    Be prepared to get wet initially and you will grow to love it although I don't suggest it as a first boat if you have not been in a canoe before.
    How true! The Argosy - yep, I finally got one - has a steep learning curve, for me anyway. But it sure is fun and thankfully light.




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    Just obtained an Argosy Rx. Put some airbags in and took it down the Lune from the Rawthey confluence to Devil's Bridge, at a medium level (0.9 on the EA gauge at Killington). I like it. No problems with stability, only splashes shipped, turns nicely with a bit of lean - I could decide to go for an eddy when 2 boat lengths away and hit it. I'm looking forward to getting more used it, and doing some camping trips.

  52. #52
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    I love my kevlar Argosy. Easy to car top, great on flat water, with plenty of room for gear when wild camping.
    Noah
    ....not for the feint hearted.

  53. #53
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    Had this week off, during which I demo'd an Argosy and a Wenonah Solo Plus. Actually, I demo'd the Argosy twice... and this is what I thought might help someone with less experience (like me) who might want to buy one. For context, I'm not an experienced paddler by any means - and my other boat is a nice big stable prospector.

    The first time I tried the Argosy, it was only for a few minutes, during which I sat, rather than kneeled, had an altercation with a fisherman and gave up, in a sulk, deciding it was unstable and not for me. I guess I was all too happy to accept the things I'd read - ie. that this was not a boat for the less experienced paddler.

    A few days later, having determined that I hadn't given it a chance and letting my ego get the better of me (surely I can't be that bad a paddler... and I can learn!), I borrowed the Argosy again. In a better frame of mind, I got straight into a kneeling position and off I went. What a difference!!! This time I found the Argosy perfectly stable (it was obviously me that was unstable first time around), easy to keep on track with minimal correction, easy to turn, and fast... in fact, quicker to get going and faster than the Solo Plus.

    I wonder if those who think it's unstable were sitting (possibly with the seat in it's highest position?), because it does feel a bit wobbly like that. But when kneeling I really wouldn't describe it as tippy at all. Someone also said it was a boat that demanded your undivided attention - maybe in WW (doesn't any boat?) - but I didn't get that impression either.

    I'd encourage anyone (not just an intermediate paddler) to try one, I found it really confidence inspiring. It's the nicest boat I've paddled, so I bought one!
    I'm at that difficult age... somewhere between birth and death.

  54. #54
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    Kneeling always improves stability, by lowering the centre of gravity.

    (I can't kneel for long myself, due to an old war wound, but I do occasionally when conditions get wild.)

    It's a steady job but he wants to be a paperback writer

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