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Thread: Self rescue!

  1. #1
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    Default Self rescue!

    I just tripped over this video on YouTube. Seems a bit over the top with specific bits of kit but might inspire some people to think about what they would do.


  2. #2
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    What a faff!!!

    Would be interesting to see him mess around with all those bits when he's 1. not standing on the bottom! 2. when it's blowing a hooley and that's how he ended up in the water to start with...

    He hasn't heard of the 'KISS' principle then...

    I think this is definately one of those 'don't try this at home folks' things don't you?

  3. #3
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    Seeing all these videos on You tube of people trying to do self rescue and not making a very good job of it is really worrying. It is incredible that plastic open canoes have been around since the seventies? and that people still need to invent this themselves. Sailing canoes, like all sailing boats have to conform to the RCD, and to sell such a craft the manufacturer has to show that the boat can be self rescued and explain to the customer in a manual how to do do this. This includes having sufficient buoyancy to allow the sailor to re-enter the craft, and still have enough freeboard to be able to bail it dry. Canoe sailors have known since the 1990s that you need plenty of fixed buoyancy, including side buoyancy, in the canoe to allow self rescue and yet many canoeists still believe that buoyancy is an inconvenience that you can do without. Even end buoyancy which is becoming accepted by many paddlers is still not necessarily sufficient as the canoe generally comes up with too much water in to make bailing easy or even possible when you have re-entered.
    I think that it is long overdue for the canoeing industry to sort this problem, but in the meantime we can start promoting good practice and spread the word on how this can be done.

  4. #4
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    Good grief ... I take it the water there is warm. I'm lucky ... I know that I can grab hold of my canoe and pull myself back in ... I've tried it a number of times and for me it works ... but dependent on your canoe and your size, weight, C of G, strength etc it might not work for you and you need to look at other options.
    I've a friend who hitches a loop around a thwart as a stirrup and can get in that way ... I tried doing something similar and I made a stirrup to use at the rear end ... I can't get either to work for me.
    I liked the waterbag weight and pole to stabilize the canoe ... but I'd have thought that the opposite extreme - a pole and a float would have been far, far better ... get in the same side as the pole/float and use the pole to help if necessary ... once you are in the pole/float still works as a stabiliser and being in the boat is probably the best/fastest place to bail from.
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

  5. #5
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    At least that guy has a strategy that he's tried (which is more than can be said for a lot of people on SOTP afaik). It does look unrealistic though in terms of the lack of freeboard when the canoe's full of water. He's bailing that out in flat calm conditions, any waves at all would be refilling the canoe faster than he could bail it out. It's a good illustration of just how much water ends up in a capsized canoe (it shocks me everytime I try a recovery just how much bailing I have to do even with end and side airbags fitted).

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    Yes what a faf, his bailer worked a suppose but..on a windy day with a bit of chop..and out of your depth..mmm.. I did a controlled risk assessment on self rescue with my Ranger 16'. Off a fast shelving beach, canoe tethered to my mate on shore..I could not lift inverted boat high enough to clear the water on one end with a view to flipping it over, without standing on the bottom. So my option when solo at sea..swim and forget the boat! One of the clips suggested by YouTube after was Alena Playing Pool.. much more entertaining

    But yes Wind or Paddle..thanks, we should all consider "what would you do" !
    Last edited by Teign Beaver; 21st-November-2011 at 08:31 AM. Reason: add thanks

  7. #7
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    Agreed that all looks like a bit of a faff.

    Next time I go out I'll post a vid on here of me using stirrup to right canoe and re-enter it. It surprises me when people say they've had limited success with stirrups as when I tried it out the canoe flipped upright quick-sharp and I was back in in a jiffy. The beauty of it is if you get the length of rope correct you actually step up out of the water as you pull sail upwards so there's less of an effort required to push yourself into canoe. Each to their own of course but for me its an ideal self recovery technique.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredster View Post
    Agreed that all looks like a bit of a faff.

    Next time I go out I'll post a vid on here of me using stirrup to right canoe and re-enter it. It surprises me when people say they've had limited success with stirrups as when I tried it out the canoe flipped upright quick-sharp and I was back in in a jiffy. The beauty of it is if you get the length of rope correct you actually step up out of the water as you pull sail upwards so there's less of an effort required to push yourself into canoe. Each to their own of course but for me its an ideal self recovery technique.
    From what you seem to be saying, Fredster, you are using a stirrup to both right the canoe and get back in - all at the same time? If that is right then you will be putting a significant pull down on to the canoe as it is righted? For me this will result in far more water being scooped into the boat than if I just right the boat with no weight on it, then get back in. The stirrup method for getting back in results in my foot going under the boat with no real advantage, for me at least.

  9. #9
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    There are a lot of variables in the self rescue equation not least being the particular canoe that you're trying to recover. My canoe has relatively low freeboard so it's quite easy to re-enter, something like a Prospector has much more freeboard and is consequently much more difficult. Another thing is the age/agility/fitness of the victim.
    I think self rescue is something any sensible person should try and if they can't achieve it with their current set up, look at changing that set up using whatever modifications it takes. Addding more bouyancy helps, the stirrup method seems to work for some and not others, Dave S advocates a bucket over the far side as a counterbalance to aid re-entry and I'm quite a fan of using a paddle float (which is a bit of a faff but makes re-entry childs play and gives added stability once back in the canoe while you bail it out). The bottom line is that I know that I can get back in my canoe unaided (without using a paddle float) with enough freeboard to make paddling the canoe swamped possible (if tricky) and allow me to bail it effectively if I can't paddle back to shore. I only know this as I've tried it and changed my technique to make it easier. That being said it's still something I'd avoid doing wherever possible as it takes ages to bail so maybe bigger end airbags would be a good idea for me to displace even more water and leave me less to bail (or maybe I'll just side step the issue and buy a new canoe with built in bouyancy ).

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    Another thing is the age/agility/fitness of the victim.
    I think you missed out shape of victim! AKA PQ which is short for Pie Quotient. Personal tumblehome is another term - ask Ray Goodwin!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    From what you seem to be saying, Fredster, you are using a stirrup to both right the canoe and get back in - all at the same time? If that is right then you will be putting a significant pull down on to the canoe as it is righted? For me this will result in far more water being scooped into the boat than if I just right the boat with no weight on it, then get back in...
    Indeed, there is some extra bailing to be done - I've countered that by significantly increasing the size of my bailer! I carry the usual one made from a 5 litre oil container AND a 25 litre one made from a larger container. After my first capsize I soon found half the challenge to be removing at least a couple of hundred litres of briny after climbing back in. With my big baler, its paddle/sail-able after 10 big scoops, no more than 30 seconds to do that. In addition to that i have a great deal of buoyancy: front/aft bags, side bags, two barrels strapped in and both underseat areas filled with buoyant material.

    This is all part of my learner status. Hopefully by the time I get to meet some of you 'north of Watford' canoe sailors next year at OCSG meets I'll be less reliant on such stuff.

  12. #12
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    Tut tut Keith

    I rather resemble that remark

    Ray
    www.RayGoodwin.com

    Paddling a Venture Prospector (in CoreLite X) using Downcreek Paddles

  13. #13
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    My high PQ is not good for getting back in but it does help in preventing the capsize. I have happilly sailed upwind in a force 5 just perched on the gunwale whilst Oceanic was hanging out horizontally trying to do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    My high PQ is not good for getting back in but it does help in preventing the capsize. I have happilly sailed upwind in a force 5 just perched on the gunwale whilst Oceanic was hanging out horizontally trying to do the same.
    I think you're more highly evolved as a canoe sailor Dave while Oceanic has stifled his development by persisting with lightweight activities such as rock climbing. I intend to work hard on my own evolution over the festive period!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayGoodwin View Post
    Tut tut Keith

    I rather resemble that remark

    Ray
    I was remembering a discussion we had, probably 12 or 15 years ago. Others were involved, not just us - and as the last couple of posts have mentioned, it's not all bad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    I think you missed out shape of victim! AKA PQ which is short for Pie Quotient. Personal tumblehome is another term - ask Ray Goodwin!
    For those who haven't noticed: the Open Canoe Dining Group appears (despite protestations about "gastronomic excellence while on trips and expedition") to be dedicated to the purpose of evolving canoeists with a high PQ (and maximum personal tumblehome)

  17. #17
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    You really are short of things to do aren't you, Greg! - resurrecting old threads like this. Haven't you got some airbags to check or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    You really are short of things to do aren't you, Greg! - resurrecting old threads like this. Haven't you got some airbags to check or something?
    Keith - "Pie Quotient" and "Personal Tumblehome" are far too important as concepts to be allowed to fester in a dead thread

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