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Thread: The proposed application to government for management of the river wye by anglers

  1. #1
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    Default The proposed application to government for management of the river wye by anglers

    I have just found this in the minutes from Enviroment Agency, Wye Navigation Advisory Committee, minutes of the meeting held on 10 November 2010

    It is quite alarming that the Wye and Usk Foundation may take over responsibility for the Wye Navigation.

    231 THE PROPOSED APPLICATION TO GOVERNMENT FOR MANAGEMENT OF THE RIVER WYE BY ANGLERS

    231.1 Mr Gardiner proposed the agenda item after hearing/reading recent news items on the local radio and in the local press. Dr Marsh-Smith explained that Environment Agency is currently the regulator and provider of fishery services. The proposal is for the Wye and Usk Foundation to take over the management of the fisheries and wildlife as outlined in a letter sent to Defra. He explained that since 1 April 2010 there were now two operating regions (Midlands and Wales) for the Wye catchment which he asserted were adding to the problems. Dr Marsh-Smith referred to the River Tweed as a fine example of where the proposed approach is working. Mr Dereham clarified that local landowners were not involved with these proposals. Mr Darling added that he was a co-author of the letter, and he felt it was also an opportunity to take on the work that the limited number of bailiffs do.

    ACTION: Dr Marsh-Smith to provide the members with a copy of the letter sent to Defra.

    This must be stopped due to their extremely biased intentions.

    Doug.
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  2. #2
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    Sickening.

  3. #3
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    Juvanile delinkwit, vaguely faffing around with a pair of pliers. Du skal ikke tro at du er bedre end mig!

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    Well don't just leave it to the few of us to do. Everyone needs to make a noise and complain.

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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    What are BCU doing ? CE ,have they complained ? Poke them WAKE them up, this is one of the only places we have

    to call home, and we are quite happy to share it, but how long will it go on if these fascists get their greedy hands on the

    leavers of control , use all means to thwart them.

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    Just like quicky says lets get more people making a noise to the right people. The BCU, CE, ask them, the more that do it the better.

    We must keep the control the fishy folk have to a minimum before it is too late.

    So wake up every canoeist aswell as canoe organisations.

    It takes more than a few of us to get our plight noticed.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  7. #7
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    How about a protest on the wye.
    Im sure this will gain coverage.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  8. #8
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    I'll add to this,
    some on the water, and some at,

    Hereford
    Ross
    Monmouth
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  9. #9
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    Any group can apply to the government for management of a Navigation - but according to what a government Minister said regarding transfer of the Navigation Authority powers for the Itchen Navigation (the existing authority being non operational) ALL stakeholders have to be consulted on any proposal - so that would include paddlers when applied to the Wye Navigation.

    The BCU/CE must ensure it is involved in this, and if it is not then other paddler groups need to step in.

    Also any Navigation Authority has very specific powers regarding the regulations it can apply to control of the use of a navigation (Wisdom's law of Watercourses defines these, I'll get a list of what these are). Any restrictions exceeding these powers would be probably be unlawful.

    Brevan
    Brevan,
    The truth (about Rights of Navigation) is out there
    Romsey, Hampshire
    Twitter: BrevanM
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  10. #10
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    You mean as a group, songs of the paddle members could take control if they decided too?
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  11. #11
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    Default Wye and Usk foundation bid

    Perhaps the way round this is to call the Wye and Usk foundations bluff.
    The BCU (CE and CW) offer to make a joint bid with WAUF to manage the navigation.

    If WAUF refuse it will show to the EA that they are not suitable people to manage it, (due to an unwillingness to be inclusive)
    and if they accept it would give canoeing an equal position at the table.

  12. #12
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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Just in from a GREAT paddle on the lovely river Wye, Kiern Bridge to Monmouth,tree's pretty, fast water and

    polite fishermen.

    I had a chat about about the river navigation being taken over by this single interest group with a concerned party,

    Kenny, of Kenny's Taxi's Monmouth [tel 01600 775408], he make's a living running canoes and paddler's up the Wye,

    he had heard of this proposal, and his opinion was that it was a none starter, but I do not want to rely on this alone,

    even though I felt reassured. BCU and CE our best option.

  13. #13
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    from ukrgb
    Next meeting 10.00 am Wednesday 23 November at The Inn on the Wye, Kerne Bridge - so I am informed by the EA.
    Please get there if you can

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    from ukrgb

    Please get there if you can
    You must register with the Environment Agency to attend.

    See this link:

    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...ing/38195.aspx

    I cannot attend due to the distance from my home.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Canoe England has attended WyeNAC meetings on 10 November 2010 and 18 May 2011 when the Wye & Usk Foundation and other angling and fisheries interests have registered their interest for a role in managing the River Wye. At the November 2010 meeting Canoe England referred to a forthcoming DEFRA consultation on the future of the R Wye and other Agency navigations and the EA stated the government would make any decision.

    It was evident the angling sector had retained their interest at the 18 May 2011 meeting following the EA reporting the Government’s commitment to transfer the responsibilities for the Environment Agency navigations to a new waterways charity when: - it is affordable to do so; the charity becomes an established success and when the charity’s trustees accept the liabilities.

    Canoe England will be attending WyeNAC on 23 November when more may be known if the angling sector has maintained their interest for a management role of the Wye Navigation. No decision on the future of the EA navigations will be known before 2014. Canoe England would resist any management of the River Wye Navigation structured around a particular sector this would not follow the arrangements for the Canal & River Trust Partnerships that are being formed with independently selected chairs and a cross section of user interests. Canoe England is familiar with the new Partnerships, having a seat on each of the three already formed.

  16. #16
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    I have just sent this email to Kevin East and Chris Hawkesworth,

    Hi Kevin and Chris,


    What is the BCU, Canoe England and Canoe Wales, doing about the proposed takeover by the Wye and Usk Foundation of the Wye Navigation? A number of canoeists see this as a detrimental step. I am sure it would raise a lot of hackles amongst canoeists if they only new.

    The WUF organisation has shown its colours as a "get rid of canoeing" group. Although Dane Broomfield tends to believe the spin from WUF that they are looking for positive coexistence.

    Surely, a one interest party cannot be allowed to run a public water? Are the canoe organisations fighting against this?

    A suggestion from a member of Song of the Paddle was that the BCU, CE and CW all put forward a joint management scheme with WUF. It would be interesting to see the response from WUF!

    D.

    I will post any response.

    Doug
    Last edited by dougoutcanoe; 11th-November-2011 at 10:08 AM.
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Well done Doug, lets hope they had heard of this prior to your message ! and had planned accordingly.

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    Well done Doug, lets hope they had heard of this prior to your message ! and had planned accordingly.
    Quite probably since as I said they attendent the meeting in 2010...

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    Apologies if this has been referenced before, but I think it nicely demonstrates where WUF support is based and the true intentions of anglers on the Wye.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Apologies if this has been referenced before, but I think it nicely demonstrates where WUF support is based and the true intentions of anglers on the Wye.
    I've just read the letter linked in John's post. It is alarming and is yet another indication of the intent of Wye and Usk Foundation to take over the waterways for exclusive use of anglers. The paragraph about voting for committee members amounts to dictatorship. Vested interest would only exclude non fishing groups.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Default river wye management

    What is perhaps most interesting about the letter referred to is the distrust that the Gillies hold for the WUF, believing that they have failed to improve the fishery. As such I don't believe the Gillies will support the WUF bid. Not that they would support a BCU bid either.

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    I find it very interesting that as the river Wye has become 'cleaner', fish stocks [I think they only care about Trout or Salmon]

    have depleted. 20 years ago, the consensus of opinion as to the cause of this problem was the MINK.. Public enemy No 1.

    Closely followed by that very able fishing bird,the Cormorant. The numbers of both these critters has been reduced, mostly

    at the expense of the tax payers, however, the numbers of Salmon and Trout is still falling, any bets on how long it will be

    before the Otter is added to the list of unwanted guests, along with ourselves !

    If I ever think of a 'Gillie',[which is Very seldom], I have an image of a tweed covered outdoor servant, from another age,

    carrying fishing rods, wicker baskets, nets, packed lunch, etc, for them selves and a toff or two !

    Since the 'Gillie's' life revolves around making sure that the river environment is a suitable home for a few fish species,

    to live in and be caught, irrespective of the effect their actions have on other river flora and fauna, they are a single interest

    occupation, and should never be put forward as guardians of the wilds, they have a selfish agenda. It could be to much to

    hope that the Environment Minister will see it that way.

  23. #23
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    The Wye and Usk Foundation have already put the blame on otters, and cormorants (according to WUF cormorants eat 2 to 3kg of fish each and every day). They also include the Goosander which according to WUF was not on the Wye 30 years ago, and now eats 98% of salmon parr (juvenile salmon).

    These fishy folk are very good at shooting themselves in the foot, exaggerated claims on anything that may reduce their income and or their pleasure.

    Our friends the "Angling Trust" are starting to up the ANTI against cormorants. Do canoeists fit into the "all the other issues that affect YOUR fishing"?

    Quote from Angling Trust, cormorant watch, site:
    We need YOU to report cormorant sightings so that theGovernment cannot ignore their damage to our fish and fisheries.The Angling Trust fights poaching, pollution, predation,fish disease, bans on fishing, fish and tackle theft and
    all the other issues that affect YOUR fishing.




    Are they so dim? Predator to prey ratios follow a natural cycle of, increase in prey means an increase in predators until the prey population falls caused by increased predation. Then the predator population slumps. So, the cycle starts again. The fishy folk provide the increased population of prey!!!!! and so disrupt the natural cycle.

    Their own game of playing a fish, exhausts the animal to a state where if it is returned to the water without care to ensure that it can still swim it will sink and die. But who knows how many just sink and die later after the angler has tried to help the fish to resuscitate? This must surely damage fish populations.

    As long as the fishy folk have the mentality, that someone or something else is to blame, they will continue wanting to kill anything that eats fish (because birds and otter don't pay for their fishing). We of course annoy the fishy folk because they pay for the river but no, they pay for the right to catch fish!

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  24. #24

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    Paddlers may be a small group I fear. Are there other groups you can rope into the good work, for example wildfowl groups (Ducks Unlimited is influential here) and locals who use the river for swimming?

    The cause of game fish depletion may be lack of attention paid to the prey fish that they eat; that would be a good sign of poor management . . .
    Terry Haines

    Boats are like rabbits: you can have one or many, but not two - A. Onassis

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    Nature can look after itself if not interfered with. As Doug says, if they make efforts to increase the fish population, and the river ends up thriving with life, it only stands to reason that predatory species will be more prevalent as a result. How dare they survive by eating their natural prey!

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    I just watched the video above. Absolutely amazing! Sounded like some sort of weird neo Natzi/ethnic cleansing propaganda video! Funny though how the man from the Angling Trust can write to Mr Benyon and not be fobbed off with a photocopied reply. Indeed it must be the case then that Cormorants are such a problem that our entire democracy, our way of life, and those of our children are under threat from those dastardly birds who dare to keep themselves alive by eating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    according to WUF cormorants eat 2 to 3kg of fish each and every day). Doug
    I think this may be a bit of exageration as according to The Salmon and Trout Association they eat about 0.5kg per day. See Here

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    Which reminds me, can anyone think of another meaning for WUF? I can certainly think of a word to go with the letter F, and it isn't "Foundation".

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    Now then ....keep it clean
    Just goin with the flow

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    Some years ago the when the cormorants and goosanders hit the press as enemy number one and one(a) to the nations freshwater fish population, I heard a report on Radio 4.

    It seemed that a listener had put 2 and 2 together and came up with the figure of 5tonnes. This was based on a simple calculation with figures from the anglers stating how many tonnes of fish they were consuming and the RSPB's figures of how many breeding pairs were known to be in the UK.

    The listener asked for a licence to cull any cormorant or goosander that landed on her pond, she also wanted to know how she could go about borrowing a Chieftain Tank with 120mm gun to despatch any errant bird?

    Big Bird is not just a Sesame Street character.

    Cor blimey just imagine an angler with a gun . The headlines, "Well me lud, it looked like a cormorant to me!" They are dangerous enough with catapults

    Would it be too stupid to have the cormorant as our bird mascot, although the goosander is prettier?

    After all we already have Quentin the otter (soon to become fish enemy number 2) or do we take that spot?
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  31. #31

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    I do wonder how many fishermen are actually anti-cormarant? Or do most enjoy the sight of them disappearing under the water, wondering where they'll, come up, as I do? Surely one of the benefits of fishing is seeing nature up close?
    Paul.

    Canoeing is a series of brews seperated by stretches of water...

  32. #32
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    Cormarants, grebes, osprey, heron, dragonfly nymths, pike, zander. perch otter and many more all will take fish.
    As an angler I see the biggest problem as anglers and fisheries themselves.
    I dont believe in stocking fish into rivers and canals or natural stillwaters. puddle of mud fisheries yes.
    These people that stock thousands of fish are only interested in what return in the pocket they will get.
    I much prefer to fish a natural river, lake or pond where the stock levels are in balance, Its much more of a challange to catch.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  33. #33
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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Quote Originally Posted by halfwit View Post
    I do wonder how many fishermen are actually anti-cormarant? Or do most enjoy the sight of them disappearing under the water, wondering where they'll, come up, as I do? Surely one of the benefits of fishing is seeing nature up close?
    In my experience, fishermen/women are the same as the rest of us in the general population, some are very interested in the

    natural world in all its forms, others are only interested in catching as many large fish,[mostly Carp] from the multitude of

    lakes and ponds that have proliferated in the countryside over the past 20+ years as a sources of income for hard pressed

    farmers. The people who bar our ancient right of navigation and access to the rivers and waterways of Wales and England

    are in the main the game fishing fraternity.

    They regard all but their target fish as course, and anything that is a threat to Salmon, Trout and in some places Char, as

    vermin. To this end a bailiff will be expected to rid a beat of Chub,Pike,Perch,Herons and Cormorants or the truly beautiful

    Goosander. If they felt that they could get away with it, and they regarded them as a pest, they would have no qualms about

    killing Otters,Ospreys or Sea Eagles, their claim to be friends of nature is at best bogus.

  34. #34
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    Today I received a reply from DEFRA in response to my enquiry about the Wye and Usk Foundation taking over the responsibilty of the River Wye navigation.

    The email from DEFRA:

    Dear Mr M***,
    Wye and Usk Foundation.
    Thank you for your letter of 11 November about the Wye and Usk Foundation. I have been asked to reply.
    I can confirm that the Environment Agency (EA) is, and will remain, the Navigation Authority on the River Wye. For more information on access rights on the River Wye, you may wish to view the Environment Agency website at the following address:
    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/130927.aspx
    You can find details of the River Wye Navigation byelaws on this page, and for any further queries I recommend that you contact the EA directly via their website. You can also find contact details for the Wye Navigation Officer based at the EA at the following address:
    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/132228.aspx
    I hope this is helpful.
    Yours sincerely,
    James Sheffield
    Defra - Customer Contact Unit

    So how long will the river remain safe?

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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