Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 60 of 75

Thread: Photos of recreational use of rivers before 1930

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default Photos of recreational use of rivers before 1930

    We are told there is no history of recreational use of our rivers which would support a right of navigation. I don't believe it. There must be many hundreds of examples of photos of such use.



    Fordingbridge Regatta on the river Avon, Hampshire



    The River Itchen at Tunbridge in Winchester in the 1870s (Winchester City Council Museums)

    There are many others. If you know of some, please post them here.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 08:55 PM.
    Keith

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default

    Keith

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,896

    Default

    Good thinking.

    Not quite hard evidence, but

    Figures boating before Salisbury Cathedral in the moonlight, painted by Albert Goodwin (1845-1932)

    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,038

    Default

    Although it has the best intentions, this thread could backfire on us if we can only come up with a handfull of photos. I'm not being negative but it implies that the evidence we claim to have is very thin on the ground. Just a thought. feel free to remove this post.
    Paul
    Just goin with the flow

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hebrides
    Posts
    3,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    Although it has the best intentions, this thread could backfire on us if we can only come up with a handfull of photos. I'm not being negative but it implies that the evidence we claim to have is very thin on the ground. Just a thought. feel free to remove this post.
    Paul
    When one considers the wider factors having one photo tells quite a lot.

    How many cameras were around prior to 1930? Very few and were generally owned by the wealthy.

    How many of those owning cameras were also canoeists or boaters? Even less.

    So what are the chances of finding hundreds of photos of people in canoes and boats on rivers in general let alone particular ones? Very slim.

    Most photos are taken for personal records so even if there were hundreds out there how easy would it be to find them? Extremely difficult.

    We've got three so far - that is pretty good.

  6. #6
    monkey_pork's Avatar
    monkey_pork is offline a wind age, a wolf age - before the world goes headlong Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    -
    Posts
    4,856

    Default

    EDIT:
    Quercus beat me to it whilst I was giving my mum a tip on cooking polenta!

    I had typed, (but not hit post reply whilst aforementioned "how to cook polenta" discussion took place): That's a fair point ... but playing Devils Advocate with that idea , is it not more the case that given the very limited penetration of camera's prior to about the 1960's, the fact that any pictures (of recreational water usage) exist prior to 1930, shows how much value the photographer felt the subject to have?


    It'd probably be worth including narrative sources to support prior use too, where there is good enough provenance.
    Last edited by monkey_pork; 9th-November-2011 at 04:22 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    There are thousands of images of boating on rivers pre 1930 on the net... just start googling
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    Boathouse, River Wey, 1911
    Keith

  9. #9
    monkey_pork's Avatar
    monkey_pork is offline a wind age, a wolf age - before the world goes headlong Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    -
    Posts
    4,856

    Default

    Anything here of use - instinct tells me maybe not tho' ...
    The Thames comes up a lot in searches online, Richmond and Windsor especially so.
    Last edited by monkey_pork; 9th-November-2011 at 04:34 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    Boating on the River Trent.



    Hazelford Ferry, Bleasby, River Trent



    People on the banks of the Trent near Barton.

    You're not trying hard enough!
    Last edited by KeithD; 9th-November-2011 at 05:04 PM.
    Keith

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Eton on the banks of the River Thames between Windsor and Slough
    Posts
    2,229

    Default

    I have sixty photos. They were used on lecture tours about the Canoe-Camping Club and its activities in the 1930s. The originals were glass slides, some of which were cracked, and some damaged so badly that only a portion of the slide can be used. I have no idea where they were taken.

    Here are a few examples:







    Fran



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

  13. #13

    Default

    Fran
    They are the most wonderful photographs... they should be published in a book... the archives of the canoe-camping club might have many such photographs of rivers all over the country...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    Kempsford Church (on the Thames upstream from Lechlade, 1791 Samuel Ireland.
    Keith

  15. #15

    Default Boating on the River [Avon?] Date c1895 (Hampshire County Council Archive)

    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 04:47 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Rowing on river, Bridge House, Fordingbridge Date c1895 (Hampshire County Council)

    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 05:02 PM.

  17. #17

    Default River and boathouse, Burgate Date c1895 (Hampshire County Council)



    That will be the River Avon again.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 04:52 PM.

  18. #18

    Default The river Test near Kings Somborne [Tanner Pond?] Date Late 19th century-early 20th



    Another courtesy of the Hants County Council archive. I'm sure there must be similar public catalogues up & down the country.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 04:59 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    Although it has the best intentions, this thread could backfire on us if we can only come up with a handfull of photos. I'm not being negative but it implies that the evidence we claim to have is very thin on the ground. Just a thought. feel free to remove this post.
    Paul
    OK so I stand corrected I'll fetch me coat.
    Some cracking pics coming in, I'll do my best to contribute some.
    Paul
    Just goin with the flow

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Coventry (from Stoke on Trent)
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  21. #21

    Default



    Surrey, Camberley, Boating and Fishing in the 1890's



    Coracle Fisherman, Llangollen (1900's)

    Photo's located on www.oldukphotos.com

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nr Hampton Court, West London
    Posts
    2,538

    Default

    Coracle Fisherman. LLangollen. Knowing what is just below him, I assume he's a Div A paddler then?

    Impcanoe

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Eton on the banks of the River Thames between Windsor and Slough
    Posts
    2,229

    Default

    Anyone recognise this stretch of river?

    Fran



  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    4,648

    Default

    Considering the close correlation between UK and US rowing from 1860 to the present, I would be very surprised if a similar correlation did not apply to recreational canoeing. There was an explosion in such canoeing in the US in the late 1800s, but it was somewhat staunched by growth of automobile use.

    You seem to be making good progress in finding old photos and paintings. Another angle is to try to document the history of the "privatisation" and enslavement of rivers solely for angling purposes. It may be that paddlers have been slowly thrown off some rivers, perhaps by restrictions at put-ins and take-outs.

  26. #26

    Default



    OK, I admit it's in Ireland (and I won't go into the history & politics), but the British Royals are seen having a ride down the rapids.

  27. #27

    Default

    The OP refers to recreational use - I didn't think it made any different what kind of use it was. Use by the Romans has been quoted as evidence.

    The other point which has been suggested is to find evidence of old fords. These would give us a right of way to the water. There is considerable evidence of a right of way on the river, but it's well established that there's no general right of way across private land to get to the river.

  28. #28

    Default

    This is a picture of a swimming meet on the River Mole in Horley in 1884. I found this by contacting the local history society... probably a good source of images....

    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    The Francis Frith website might yield more historical images, e.g. http://www.francisfrith.com/newbury,...-c1965_N61136/ (look closely, keeping in mind that the K&A wasn't reopened until 1990).

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    ...and Flickr isn't all new photos (and includes images of older postcards), e.g. http://www.flickr.com/photos/alwyn_ladell/6036050484/

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    This is a view looking upstream from the Silk Mill at the bridge over the River Test at Winchester Street, Whitchurch.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-February-2015 at 05:27 PM.
    Keith

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    River Avon Warwickshire, 1910s



    "Swan hopping as photographed in 1886 - with the Superintendent of Police in the first boat.
    The party would row along the river, starting from Lucy's Mill as far up river as Tiddington, in search of swans."



    The Warwick boat house on the River Avon, Warwick. A boy is in a canoe type boat on the river. 1900s
    Last edited by KeithD; 19th-November-2011 at 06:00 PM.
    Keith

  33. #33

  34. #34

    Default

    Last edited by Jon Wood; 21st-November-2011 at 11:31 AM. Reason: add extra link

  35. #35
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    Appreciate that it's not pre-1930, but IMO it's important to show continuity of use, so scroll down here for pics of paddling on the Wensum in the early 1960's.

  36. #36

    Default

    There do not appear to be any pictures but in the Mildenhall, Wiltshire, parish magazine, The Parish Pump, there is a series of letters by the Rector's family, the Soames, to some of their relatives who have gone to South Africa in the 1880s. In one of these letters the Rector records having given a canoe to the villagers to paddle around on the River Kennet through Mildenhall. The Kennet is one of the most fiercely protected trout fishing rivers now but was obviously open for recreation in the 19th century.

  37. #37
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin2 View Post
    There do not appear to be any pictures but in the Mildenhall, Wiltshire, parish magazine, The Parish Pump, there is a series of letters by the Rector's family, the Soames, to some of their relatives who have gone to South Africa in the 1880s. In one of these letters the Rector records having given a canoe to the villagers to paddle around on the River Kennet through Mildenhall. The Kennet is one of the most fiercely protected trout fishing rivers now but was obviously open for recreation in the 19th century.
    Sorry, bit off the thread main theme but there is a token historical referrence...

    Edwin2, paddling on the upper reaches of the River Kennet is a fine tradition which occasionally continues to this day...

    Just south of the river from Mildenhall (or 'Minal' if you're local) is The Werg Hatchpool, on the very private Crown Estate fishery. Not sure if it's still there but a couple of years back there was an old kayak lying next to the fisherman's hut. Across the small lane that gets to this location is the field that was once the site of the Roman tax collecting town of CVNETIO... from which grain tax was once floated downstream on flat- bottomed boats to The Thames in such proliferation that they had to triple the ships carrying it on to the Legions in Germany. A little further downstream at Axford a local farmer has more recently complained that "Canoeists were an annoying problem" (D5, page 136 of 145), and still further downstream kayaks have also been spotted in Ramsbury, albeit not in action at the time.

    Selfish fisheries interests aside, one of the principal problems with canoeing and kayaking on the River Kennet at the moment is that on it's upper reaches it has currently run dry due to the near record drought ground water levels and continuing over abstraction e.g. should like this

    but which currently looks like this:

  38. #38

    Default

    Lived in Minal for over thirty years. Of course there is the rare canoeing on the Kennet to the displeasure of the fishing syndicates and the River Keeper. My evidence was that recreational use of the river was accepted in the 19th century by a major local establishment figure. The Kennet through Marlborough has been the scene of raft races in recent times although somehow riverine rights accrued to the Frees family and were later sold. Marlborough College had a slalem course on the river but they may have laid claim to do so because of owning neighbouring land.

    In other Boroughs along the river there is still free fishing in parts of Newbury and Reading to my personal knowledge likewise unhindered paddling, permits needed on the Kennet and Avon canal or BCU membership. Early guide books to the river suggested leaving the canal for the river at Newbury.

  39. #39

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    706

    Default P,f,l,o,p



    Eleanor Barnes, the song remains the same ! these pesky fish bother's, 'draining the atmosphere of joy' Which is a shame, but hopefully not for much longer.

    Great water colour of Longford Castle, with poetic description of of the shallows near by, and I love the photo of the Woman
    shooting the weir, looking like an extra from Downton Abbey.

    Good work Jon Woods.

  41. #41
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    The house in the second image looks like Avon Castle. It would appear that in the '20's boating was common here:


    Postcard franked in 1924.

  42. #42

    Default

    If you haven't opened the link to Barnes' book, there are many illustrations and photo plates.
    And I have also discovered that there is a modern reprint available.

  43. #43
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Basingstoke
    Posts
    353

    Default

    From the text of the book Jon discovered...
    I told the keeper we must see the beauty of his river ere our fleeting life be spent, and that we came on literary purpose, not for fish.

    In a prolonged debate, although devoid of superficial charm, I found beneath his pre-historic manner, some small store of gentleness.

    We exchanged cards—his name inscribed upon a label, mine placed in his hand with courteous message to My Lord.

    And seeing him reduced to indecision, I closed the interview with compliments, and paddled on before he should have time to reconsider trespassing or us, and from the distance, my Sabrina waved a debonair farewell.


    Looks like paddlers have long been adhering to a courtesy code in the face of initially obnoxious objection.

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,896

    Default

    What a remarkable find that Barnes' Book is! Fascinating reading, bizarre, to me at least, style of writing but exactly the right spirit of exploration.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    706

    Default P,f,l,o,p

    If only a wealthy well wisher could send a copy of 'As the River Flows, by Eleanor Barnes [1920], to the policy department

    of B C U, it would inform them, [as if they did not know], that the vast majority of canoeist are only interested quietly

    paddling down a water way, as opposed to striving for an award or medal for completing in the fastest time over a short

    course, we would at leased be reading from the same song sheet.

  46. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Freckleton, United Kingdom
    Posts
    174

    Default Plenty of old pictures on the web

    I can't find a date for this one;
    Rob,
    sat in front of a PC dreaming about paddling

  47. #47

    Default

    Don't know if this has been suggested but an analysis of the BCU "Guide to the Waterways of the British Isles", 1936 and subsequent editions might show
    a deterioration in access. Possibly the BCU have already done this but I am no longer a member having given up grudging inland waters for the tidal rivers, estuaries and inshore waters of Cornwall.

  48. #48

    Default

    I've just got my hands on a copy of "Rapid Rivers" by William Bliss (1st ed. 1935, so the scanned images may meet the pre-1930 criteria)
    Anyway, here's a couple of plates:




  49. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,520

    Default

    That's spelt wrong?

  50. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    That's spelt wrong?
    You mean Llanllwni?

    Bliss also spelled it "Llanwllwni" in the text. I'm sure it was fixed in later editions.

  51. #51
    monkey_pork's Avatar
    monkey_pork is offline a wind age, a wolf age - before the world goes headlong Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    -
    Posts
    4,856

    Default

    Robert Graves, writing about his time at Worlds End Cottage in Islip in the 1920's in his memoir 'Goodbye to all that' says:

    They had fields to play in [...]. The river was close and we could borrow a canoe.

    That borrowed canoe was evidently used too:

    Mary Lago's biography of Edward John Thompson ('India's Prisoner: A Biography of Edward John Thompson, 1886-1946') says:

    At once the entire Graves family [...] came to call, in a canoe.

    ... that said, the rivers thereabouts might not have any access issues of course.

  52. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Kidderminster, North Worcestershire
    Posts
    427

    Default

    Hi,
    There is a book called Canoeing by William G Luscombe and Louis J Bird, I have an 1948 edition, but the first edition was brought out in 1936. So thinking about how long it would take to write up the book and publish it we can safely say that there was recreational paddling before 1936.

    Oh also on page 27, they mention that 50 years ago Messrs. Salter Brothers of Oxford began making canadian canoes. Thats about 1880.

  53. #53
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eastern Canada
    Posts
    6,968
    Journal Entries
    18

    Default

    Last edited by Lloyd; 6th-April-2012 at 06:37 PM.
    Lloyd

    I never pay attention to anything by "experts". I calculate everything myself.
    Richard Feynman.

    www.senseaboutscience.org

  54. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    18,896

    Default

    That's excellent Lloyd, thanks. I love the pictures.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  55. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default



    from http://dolgellau.eu/ Published in 1794
    Keith

  56. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Keynsham near Bristol
    Posts
    3,742

    Default





    From Winchester Museum collection. Photos taken about 1875.
    Keith

  57. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

  58. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stone , Staffs
    Posts
    1,779

    Default

    Not sure of the year but Mr Cooper the Gentleman paddler has been around a long time


  59. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Stone , Staffs
    Posts
    1,779

    Default

    One from the Dee access FB page below Town bridge falls the old broken weir of today as it was in its glory


  60. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,520

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pipster3 View Post
    Not sure of the year but Mr Cooper the Gentleman paddler has been around a long time
    Ha, ha! Do you recognise the boat?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •