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Thread: e-Petitions ... rivers access?

  1. #1
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    Default e-Petitions ... rivers access?

    Heard on the radio today about the Hillsborough Football disaster being debated in parliament due to public interest as flagged via an e-petition.

    E-Petitions which have collected more than 100,000 signatures on the Government’s e-petitions website are sent to the House of Commons. The Office of the Leader of the House of Commons checks the petition against the terms and conditions for e-petitions and the rules of the House of Commons. Successful e-petitions are then sent to the Backbench Business Committee to be considered for debate.

    see ... http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...gh-documents-/

    here's where you set one up ... http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

    need lots of folks to sign up ... thoughts??
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

  2. #2
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    Just getting parliament to debate the issue is not the objective (we have had 10 Minute Rule Bills and Early Day Motions in the past). We need to convince our MPs and those that influence them of the justice of our case and the need to change the law as the ONLY effective way of achieving a fair and equitable solution. Until we get to a situation where we will win a debate in parliament there is no point provoking one.

    The Lib Dems got a referendum on electoral reform but their failure to win it took them away from their real objective.
    Keith

  3. #3
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    Hi Potty Paddler

    I suggested something like this a while ago (see http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for....-just-an-idea) and was amazed how negative some of the responses was overall. To be honest it was a bit sad to hear 'there is no point trying'. I have no idea why the BCU and Canoe England seem not to be able to focus support to get more than a couple of thousand people together. I would have thought that anything that tells the public what the actual situation in England is because I doubt most people on the street have any idea that only 4% of the total length of rivers can be accessed

    Anyway, if you get something together, I'd be happy to sign it and ensure friends (in and out of the UK) do so as well.

    All the best and keep on trying

  4. #4
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    Just a reminder about what happened yesterday, in simple terms you understand:

    More than 100,000 people petitioned for a referendum on getting out of Europe.
    Matter was debated in parliament
    Political parties issued a three line whip
    Proposal was defeated by a substantial majority
    Even so, if passed, it would not have been government policy and they need do nothing with it.

  5. #5
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    Hi Adrian

    thanks for the 'simple terms I understand' - not sure what I did to deserve that but hey this is an emotive subject and some people are almost strident about it. Just to be clear, I'm on your side mate.

    My point however is that 'anything that tells the public what the actual situation in England' has to be a positive move even if it isn't a magic bullet to cure everything immediately. As you say, yesterday came to nothing but there was a hell of a lot of coverage of that nothing on TV etc. People who are not involved in the canoe community are generally amazed when I tell them the actual situation and are also typically sympathetic. Surely that is better than them not even knowing.

    My original post and this one was aimed at positive things we as canoe enthusiasts could do to extend awareness of the problem.

  6. #6
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    There was an e-petition and it got 3000 to sign up and that was from all the members on here and UKrgb. There is a 38 degrees access campaign as well with minimum participants. (when you consider that the wild swimmers on there have outnumber the paddlers in voting I hope you will see how passionate people are to signing up for things).

    Everyone likes to moan about the situation but only a few do something about it and try to raise the issue and change the situation. Until more do things will be the same...

  7. #7
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    If you look at the e-petitions webpage you will see that there are already two petitions running on this subject - one has collected 10 votes and the other 7 despite having been running for over two months. This is not how the issue will be won.

    We need to build up comprehensive and irrefutable evidence that we already have a public right of navigation on all rivers that are physically capable of navigation. Rev'd Dr Douglas Caffyn has already come up with a great deal of very compelling evidence but I suspect there is still more to be found.

    We also need to build up clear evidence that the "No Canoes on Our Rivers" campaign does not represent the views (or interests) of most anglers who of course are reasonable people like most canoeists. Fortunately, the arguments that they put forward for preserving their monopolistic claims to our rivers do not stand up to independent scrutiny and often betray unreasoning prejudice ("large garish craft"!) or transparent dishonesty (Police Notices that do not come from the Police, Environment Agency and Nature England signs that are unauthorised and communicate sentiments that are readily contradicted by those organisations, and EA Bailiffs that are not EA Bailiffs!

    I understand your frustration but a fruitless charge on the guns like the Light Brigade will not swing the battle. For the moment we are still in the "preparation" stage. Build the case, seek out reasonable allies, win over the key influencers (write to your MP) one by one. Build and record the evidence of harassment and vandalism on the one hand and peaceful coexistence on the other using the Access Map (shameless plug!).

    This is not a sprint, it's a marathon! There is no point wishing the finishing post was closer until we can be sure we will cross it first!
    Keith

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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    'Half a league,.... half a league,.....half a league, on wards'

    My feelings are that we have a broad approach to addressing this issue, matched and linked to our skills and ability's.

    The MP,s know about us, as do the landowners, the fishing lobby and the Environment Agency.

    The general public is unaware of the 'facts'. this was illustrated to me only last weekend, an old friend told me that a few days before, he had been out for a walk with his children, in a wood, which the Wiltshire Avon flows though.

    They had a paddle [foot not canoe],the water was cold,but they were happy, when a water bailiff crept up on them, and very
    aggressively told them "there's no swimming here". This upset my pal, coupled with the bailiff creeping about in the under
    growth,letting them know he was keeping an eye on them, as they left the Scene.

    My mate had no idea that a small minority of the population is under the illusion that it controls 90+ % of the waterways in
    England and Wales, [as for Iraq, River Access would not be my first issue].

    We need to lead the charge, and keep working to get our message across to concerned agencies, and the general public,
    in as many way as we can, hopefully the BCU will follow us up.

  9. #9
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    "The MP,s know about us, as do the landowners, the fishing lobby and the Environment Agency. The general public is unaware of the 'facts'...."
    "My mate had no idea that a small minority of the population is under the illusion that it controls 90+ % of the waterways in
    England and Wales .... "
    All I was saying in the first place. I may be misguided but I believe that any action for change (for example a union strike, affermative action etc) ultimately succeeds or fails according to the amount of public support available to it. If it seems to be right and fair people can generally smell that is the case. I agree that we therefore need to use available mehcanisms to ....

    "get our message across to concerned agencies, and the general public, in as many ways as we can"
    "

    So we agree then .... but having written to a number of MPs, done the surveys and stuff, 38 Degrees, access map and BCU surveys as recommended, I am sad that our level of focus and unity appears to be demonstrated by ....


    "If you look at the e-petitions webpage you will see that there are already two petitions running on this subject - one has collected 10 votes and the other 7 despite having been running for over two months"
    For this fact, we can blame nobody but ourselves because the finshing guys are appear to be a hell of a lot more together than the canoe community on how to make a fuss about anything - witness the Avon paddle drama whipped up from nothing - maybe we should just paint all canoes black and only go out at night so there are no bright colours. I checked and it appears a fair number of fish are not colour blind so it's either black canoes or fish raybans. The future is bright

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL View Post
    Hi Adrian

    thanks for the 'simple terms I understand' - not sure what I did to deserve that
    Sorry Mark. That wasn't supposed to read 'in simple terms so that you can understand' more that I was simplifying the scenario without adding any embellishment. I am often surprised how difficult it is to convey an attitude if using only a few words.

  11. #11
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    Cool mate no problem.

  12. #12
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    As far as I am aware only 3 or 4 e petitions have passed the 100,000 signature threshold.

    Each has had the backing of a well organised group(s) or strong media coverage because of news worthy events.

    It would seem that a poorly worded and vague petition put up by the average Joe Bloggs that has no mass appeal and is not heavily promoted is not really going to achieve very much.

  13. #13
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    ultimately succeeds or fails according to the amount of public support available to it. If it seems to be right and fair people can generally smell that is the case. I agree that we therefore need to use available mehcanisms to ....
    Exactly. Writing to MP's etc is one thing, but anything that kicks up such a fuss that the general public gets to know about the situation is a good thing. As others have said, most non canoeists/fishermen/wild swimmers are completely unaware of the situation. If most of the population discovered that a minority of rich landowners think they control the rivers to the point where you can't even take a simple canoe down them I think that there would be uproar!

    Having the BCU try and lobby the Government will not help one iota unless the majority of the UK population are made clear of what the situation is.

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