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Thread: Problem on the Wye.

  1. #1
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    Default Problem on the Wye.

    A few days into a trip down the River Wye from Hollybush Inn to Monmouth, I had an encounter with a particularly unpleasant character.

    The incident happened on the stretch from Hoarwithy to Ross on Wye, near the Hole-in-the-Wall.

    There may be a few knowing grunts from readers at this point.

    It was about 11.15am and it was necessary for me to stop for emergency reasons. I am an insulin dependant Diabetic and when I start to feel the effects of a hypoglycaemic attack, I need to stop and remedy the matter quickly.

    I knew we were in enemy territory, the bailiff on this stretch is notorious and I have had a previous encounter with him some years ago.

    My friend and I were paddling tandem and stopped on some exposed rocks where we tied up and I got my emergency supplies out. Treatment of a hypo is simple and only takes about 5 minutes to sort out. But if I delay treatment I may become uncoordinated and eventually become comatose (this stage can be reached in as little as 10 to 15 minutes). I know that it is possible to eat or drink high sugar content foods, while on the go but stopping seemed to make sense considering the rapid ahead.

    I did not feel that my friend was suitably skilled to cope with a heavily laden canoe solo and possibly an irrational paddler, through the rapids just downstream of our position.

    The bailiff was onto us quite quickly, he hailed us across the river saying that he was the Water Bailiff and we were on private property and must move on now!

    A Water Bailiff is an officer of the Law and will have an ID (Warrant) card issued by the Environment Agency.

    Because he declared he was the WB I asked to see his credentials. From across the river he showed, my friend and I, the front cover of the EA River Wye Guide. I said I could not see them properly and continued to eat my sugary food and wait for the symptoms to subside.

    His next move was to row across the river but he could not move water laden boat. So he then called for backup, I heard the words, "….come along and shift them…". Just as we were ready to move on this other character arrived on our side of the river. He said nothing but did take a photograph of us as we passed. I of course reciprocated.

    The bailiff hailed us over when we were afloat and tried to point out the folly of our ways, including reading from the aforementioned River Guide. I again asked to see his ID but this time was shown a tatty, type written postcard, which he waved about and kept at a distance so as not to be readable.

    I took a photograph of him during his reading, this of course upset him more. He tried to point out that it was illegal for me to take such a photo. I said that I am a professional photographer and I know my rights.

    He also said that he could confiscate our boat and equipment.

    Even pointing out the reason for our stop held no credence with him. He replied, "I am diabetic too, so don’t try that excuse on me"
    We left him ranting as we continued on our journey. He then drove his car along the riverbank with the passenger window open on our side and continued to glare and rant. He followed us for about one and a half miles until his track lead him away from the river.

    This ugly event left me in a shaken state and I was upset by it for several hours.

    When I got home, a few days later, I contacted the EA about this person’s behaviour and what should a Water Bailiff show for ID. The matter, is being investigated by them and this is an extract of an email I have received from the EA:

    We have been informed by the local area team that the individual concerned is a private bailiff.
    Our enforcement team will contact him regarding canoeists and the right to incidental landings.

    I also reported the matter to the police but they seemed to be uninterested. I did point out that the character was impersonating an officer of the Law but again no interest.

    Interestingly they had received a report from the bailiff about the incident. I wonder what he said?

    I will be writing to the Chief Constable of the area to report my dissatisfaction with the police response, in view of the bailiff’s impersonation of an officer of the Law and threatening behaviour. Also the poor level of knowledge the police have displayed, regarding the Right of Navigation.

    I will add more to this thread as further information is forthcoming.

    A sad incident that put a bad view forward of the River Access situation.

    Doug
     
     
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Default Increasingly disenchanted with some parts of the EA

    Post deleted for further consideration, but please note http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/f...e+registration
    Last edited by Chainsaw; 8th-October-2011 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Trimming

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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    Hi Dougoutcanoe, what a very unpleasant person, and such bad luck to meet them when you were feeling unwell.

    Sounds like you covered all the bases in making his bad behaviour known to the reliant agencies.

    Considering the number of canoes down that stretch, he is going to have a hard time, which serves him right !

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    I wonder what this fella would do if 50 plus canoes came to a stop on his beat.
    I can almost see him running around like mad man and not knowing who to rant at first.
    Poor chap needs to learn to relax a bit.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I wonder what this fella would do if 50 plus canoes came to a stop on his beat.
    I can almost see him running around like mad man and not knowing who to rant at first.
    Poor chap needs to learn to relax a bit.
    Yeah! He needs a hobby, canoeing maybe.

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    Hello Doug, how very unpleasant for you - such confrontations are always unsettling.
    'Life is Art, and not otherwise' C.S.Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    ...This ugly event left me in a shaken state and I was upset by it for several hours...
    I know what you mean by this - a confrontation like this can sully a whole trip. It takes a strange man to disregard the medical needs of another. I hope the EA take steps aginst this individual, but somehow I think they'll just accept his side of the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I wonder what this fella would do if 50 plus canoes came to a stop on his beat.
    I can almost see him running around like mad man and not knowing who to rant at first.
    Poor chap needs to learn to relax a bit.
    Poor is the word

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-GB View Post
    Yeah! He needs a hobby, canoeing maybe.
    Nah ... he needs to learn how to swim safely in the river ... useful skills for canoeists, kayakers and fishermen ... just in case they accidentally fall in ... or take that step too far in their waders.

    ... and I am a canoeist, kayaker and fisherman
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

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    I dont know much about Laws in the rest of the UK, but under Scottish Law it's an offence to Harrass, Accost, Cause a Breach of the Peace, place someone in a state of Fear and Alarm, Impersonate an Officer or Representative of the Law etc etc etc. Sounds as though this chappy thinks he's above the law. You dont say whether you phoned the police or went to the station, they tend to take you more seriously if you go up to the desk. I agree with Fredster, that an incident like that ruins the day, and the antagonists know it.
    Regards, WW

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    Some time ago, i was involved in the training of patrol dogs for water bailifs, to combat poaching. These dogs were trained to a very high standard, just be aware folks.

    Rob

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    I haven't met the guy myself, but he is notorious. Maybe take one of those Kenny Everett style big hand things with "Talk to the hand!" written on it to hold up to him if he appears again!

    I had thought in the past of going down to that part to practice but have always been put off by the tales of the pillock there.

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    Just a couple of points:-

    There is no law to stop you 'impersonating' most officials (I think the police and armed forces are an exception) UNLESS you also commit some illegal act, such as fraud, theft and so on.

    An 'officer of the law' is a police officer. A privately employed bailiff has exactly the same status in law as you and I. So the police won't/can't act UNLESS he commits some offence and that offence is worth their while pursuing.

    As I;m sure you know, a representitive of the land owner or whoever has the riparian rights has the right to ask you to leave or to use reasonable force to remove you from such land etc., etc., and at the moment thats where it ends........... until better access is obtained.
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

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    As I;m sure you know, a representitive of the land owner or whoever has the riparian rights has the right to ask you to leave or to use reasonable force to remove you from such land etc., etc., and at the moment thats where it ends........... until better access is obtained.
    Not so with the Wye as has been shown in other threads. Also, you can land in an emergency. I would say that taking medication else risk becoming comatose in charge of a canoe on a moving water river would trump any 'Riparian rights' in spite of the idiot who reckoned it was no excuse because he was a diabetic too (I doubt it very much otherwise he would understand all the issues fully). In other words, it was an emergency, and safety was at risk if he didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Perry View Post
    Just a couple of points:-

    There is no law to stop you 'impersonating' most officials (I think the police and armed forces are an exception) UNLESS you also commit some illegal act, such as fraud, theft and so on.

    An 'officer of the law' is a police officer. A privately employed bailiff has exactly the same status in law as you and I. So the police won't/can't act UNLESS he commits some offence and that offence is worth their while pursuing.

    As I;m sure you know, a representitive of the land owner or whoever has the riparian rights has the right to ask you to leave or to use reasonable force to remove you from such land etc., etc., and at the moment thats where it ends........... until better access is obtained.
    It is however (effectively) against the law to be such an arse. Especially given the medical mitigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Perry View Post
    Just a couple of points:-

    There is no law to stop you 'impersonating' most officials (I think the police and armed forces are an exception) UNLESS you also commit some illegal act, such as fraud, theft and so on.

    An 'officer of the law' is a police officer. A privately employed bailiff has exactly the same status in law as you and I. So the police won't/can't act UNLESS he commits some offence and that offence is worth their while pursuing.

    As I;m sure you know, a representitive of the land owner or whoever has the riparian rights has the right to ask you to leave or to use reasonable force to remove you from such land etc., etc., and at the moment thats where it ends........... until better access is obtained.



    The individual in question was claiming to be a Water Baliff which is a legal position, with powers of arrest, and so I would have thought he was impersonating an officer of the law. It seems he is in fact a private baliff which is an entirely different thing. I imagine the police's lack of interest was due to the lack of independant witnesses, the baliff had already contacted the police and presumably told them a completley different story so there is little they can do. If he is regularly a problem maybe someone could try and video him in action and then the police could take action. From there response the EA are obviously aware of him, but again there is little they can do.

    Barney

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    From our various meetings over the years, I've always viewed you as being a friendly and reasonable soul. It does not bode well, that on a river such as the Wye, an incident such as this has occurred. I am also somewhat dismayed by the lack of police interest in this.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

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    This is interesting
    What is Common Assault? Under Section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act the offence will be committed when a person either assaults another person or commits a battery.
    • A battery is classified as the application of unlawful force. This could be anything from a push or slap.
    • An assault is when the one person makes the other fear that immediate force will be used against them. This could be anything from shaking a fist or running a finger across a throat. No force needs to be applied in order for it to be an assault.
    I would imagine there is a law somewhere simular to the intent to cause endagerment that the U.S. has.
    Especially as when he challanged you he was working and not just a civilian.
    He also has no rite to say if you are well enough to carry on with your journey, even if he is a first aider (and diabetic himself) he can only advise you not to. The decision to carry on with your journey is yours.

    This man is eventually going to fall foul to the law, with his bullying tactics and even trying to make out that he has more power than he has.
    The bad news is that somebody is likely to be injured first.

    This man deserves more than a Jonsworth award.

    What is the law on videoing or photographing someone that wont like it, is it illegal? if it isnt what about putting it on youtube or simular?
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    What is the law on videoing or photographing someone that wont like it, is it illegal? if it isnt what about putting it on youtube or simular?
    Nothing illegal about taking video. Though how it is used could be challenged, for example for defamation of character etc depending on how it is presented. But there would be nothing illegal about taking the video and posting it up on YouTube etc.

    However I think there is a journalistic case for public interest in this instance. He clearly keeps on acting the way that he does because nobody has properly challenged him back yet.

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    A water bailiff has no more powers of arrest than you or I. I have arrested people twice for attempting to and actually in the act of theft. Any one in this country can do the same.

    I think I'll go off and impersonate Father Christmas later in the year too!!!
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGB View Post
    From our various meetings over the years, I've always viewed you as being a friendly and reasonable soul. It does not bode well, that on a river such as the Wye, an incident such as this has occurred. I am also somewhat dismayed by the lack of police interest in this.

    TGB
    Thanks TGB.

    Your opinion of me is not unusual.

    Peaceful, easy going, friendly but I don't tolerate fools.

    The foolish bailiff in question: Did try to impress upon me and my friend that he is a Water Bailiff (an officer of the Law). But failed to show his warrant. The EA have pointed out that he is not a Water Bailiff.

    I will pursue the matter with the police.

    Doug.
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Quote Originally Posted by David Perry View Post
    A water bailiff has no more powers of arrest than you or I. I have arrested people twice for attempting to and actually in the act of theft. Any one in this country can do the same.

    I think I'll go off and impersonate Father Christmas later in the year too!!!
    Father Christmas - no problem unless you misbehave yourself with youngsters!!

    But a Water Bailiff is an officer of the Law.

    I found this on the website for "All Police Jobs" -
    Water Bailiff/Fisheries Officer

    The primary duty of a water bailiff, or fisheries officer as they are also known, is to maintain lakes and rivers, and their stock of fish, for legitimate recreational use. In this the bailiff faces two challenges - ecological problems and breaches of the law.
    Within Scotland and Northern Ireland, water bailiffs perform a similar function to that carried out by gamekeepers on land. They must look out for poachers and other lawbreakers, and have powers of search and arrest similar to those of police officers. In England and Wales, these powers are available only to officers who have been appointed (granted a warrant) by the Environment Agency.

    I hope you can cope with this revelation.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    for future reference, wheres the Hollybush please?

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    The Hollybush is halfway between Glasbury and Hay on Wye. You'll need to pay a launch fee, and, ahem, have an open mind if you stay or drink there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I wonder what this fella would do if 50 plus canoes came to a stop on his beat.
    I can almost see him running around like mad man and not knowing who to rant at first.
    Poor chap needs to learn to relax a bit.
    I would like to see that!

    The stretch would, of course, make an excellent place to practice rescues of all kinds. Nice deep slow moving water.
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    The Hollybush Inn- have an open mind if you stay or drink there!
    Well said Simon
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Default Hollybush Inn - TV Appearance


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    I have received a reply from the Police Sergeant at Ross. he is going to look into the matter further.

    The email:
    NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED
    PC Wendy Powell has asked me to make contact with you following your recent email correspondence relating to a Gilly on the River Wye. Forgive yet another email, but I do not have a contact telephone number or address for you.
    I have read the emails and I am making my own enquiries into the legislation around this issue and will get back to you in due course once I have explored the concerns and points of law you have raised.
    My initial assessment is that the Gilly may have no legal, enforceable authority and I fear, whether he has or has not, it may be his attitude and delivery that has caused you more upset and concern. That said, I am no expert in this area of law and will look into it and update you as soon as I can. We can discuss where we go from there at that time.
    Please bear with me.
    Regards
    Rob Davies.
    Local Policing Sergeant 3113 Robin Davies
    Golden Valley and Ross-on-Wye

    I have supplied my address and telephone number. But I still don't have an incident number.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Default A very encouraging sign

    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    I have received a reply from the Police Sergeant at Ross. he is going to look into the matter further.

    The email:
    NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED


    PC Wendy Powell has asked me to make contact with you following your recent email correspondence relating to a Gilly on the River Wye. Forgive yet another email, but I do not have a contact telephone number or address for you.
    I have read the emails and I am making my own enquiries into the legislation around this issue and will get back to you in due course once I have explored the concerns and points of law you have raised.
    My initial assessment is that the Gilly may have no legal, enforceable authority and I fear, whether he has or has not, it may be his attitude and delivery that has caused you more upset and concern. That said, I am no expert in this area of law and will look into it and update you as soon as I can. We can discuss where we go from there at that time.
    Please bear with me.
    Regards
    Rob Davies.
    Local Policing Sergeant 3113 Robin Davies
    Golden Valley and Ross-on-Wye

    I have supplied my address and telephone number. But I still don't have an incident number.

    Doug
    Hello Doug
    That's a most encouraging sign and the boys in blue (oh, and girls of course) seem to be taking it seriously. This chap has a long history as we all know; the iGreens report in 2007 on the Hole in the Wall stretch mentions him getting 'very excited'! Hope something gets done this time and best of luck
    'Life is Art, and not otherwise' C.S.Lewis

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    I suggest that we nickname the Hole In The Wall guy "Blakey"! "I 'ate you, Butler"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    I suggest that we nickname the Hole In The Wall guy "Blakey"! "I 'ate you, Butler"
    "get that canoe out"

    Good work Doug, I suppose there is no crime number, because they are checking on the 'law' with regard to navigation of the Wye, that should keep them occupied.

    Am I fooling my self, is the wind of change blowing in our favour, far to early to say !

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    I have received a reply from the Police Sergeant at Ross. he is going to look into the matter further.

    The email:
    NOT PROTECTIVELY MARKED
    PC Wendy Powell has asked me to make contact with you following your recent email correspondence relating to a Gilly on the River Wye. Forgive yet another email, but I do not have a contact telephone number or address for you.
    I have read the emails and I am making my own enquiries into the legislation around this issue and will get back to you in due course once I have explored the concerns and points of law you have raised.
    My initial assessment is that the Gilly may have no legal, enforceable authority and I fear, whether he has or has not, it may be his attitude and delivery that has caused you more upset and concern. That said, I am no expert in this area of law and will look into it and update you as soon as I can. We can discuss where we go from there at that time.
    Please bear with me.
    Regards
    Rob Davies.
    Local Policing Sergeant 3113 Robin Davies
    You might like to point him in the direction of the relevant statute:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/51/section/36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    You might like to point him in the direction of the relevant statute:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/51/section/36
    Thanks Adrian,

    I have sent the link to Local Policing Sergeant 3113 Robin Davies.

    I hope it helps him come to a fair conclusion. It is only fair if it causes the gilly some grief. I'm not a vindictive person though!

    Not quite!

    Well only in special circumstances!

    Just a tiny bit.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    We don't need to cause him grief (however satisfying that may be). We do need to change his behaviour.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    We don't need to cause him grief (however satisfying that may be). We do need to change his behaviour.
    Sorry folks for my loss of control.

    Just got carried away by a lynch mob attitude.

    So sorry, Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Just looked at the link Adrian kindly posted and
    (2)The production by a water bailiff or a person appointed by the Minister of evidence of his appointment shall be a sufficient warrant for him exercising the powers conferred on him by this Act.
    What evidence of his (assumed) appointment is sufficient or correct? I suspect not the pamphlet he waved with menace and puffy cheeks.

    I had an idea, I know they are rare and dangerous to voice, how about inviting the Sergeant for a paddle to see first hand the situation? It's a win win idea, he gets a jolly out on a beautiful river in great company and gets an arrest of an impersonator of an officer of the law and you get the photo's to share here..after the conviction of course.

    Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob-GB View Post
    I had an idea, I know they are rare and dangerous to voice, how about inviting the Sergeant for a paddle to see first hand the situation? It's a win win idea, he gets a jolly out on a beautiful river in great company and gets an arrest of an impersonator of an officer of the law and you get the photo's to share here..after the conviction of course.
    Rob.
    I would say.
    Thats a perfect idea !!!!!
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  38. #38

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    We are seeing a sea-change because of the Internet and new technology.. These fools and bullies on the river banks of England are now under threat because we can record their behavior and publish it instantly. We can easily collect evidence of their bullying and of actual criminal behaviour, report them to the police, make them Youtube celebrities and thereby teach them some manners.

    By the same the token, everything we say on this website and do on the river is open to scrutiny. We have to be very careful how we express ourselves. Assume that every thing you post here will be read by someone who wants to show that canoeists are irresponsible, selfish freeloaders with no consideration for the environment or other river users.

    At the moment we seem to have the moral high ground, lets not lose it for the temporary thrill of putting someone down. We are in this for the long haul. The unique thing about the SOTP is that we have very high standards of behavior and respect for each other. I hope moderators will use their influence to keep these standards in place when we report conflict on the river. Just the facts! Doug exemplifies these standards in his report here.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Good to get a reply Doug, have you sent the police office the report from the Twfi officer. Different River and country I know but the law might be the same.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    Different River and country I know but the law might be the same.
    As I understand it the law WILL be the same. England and Wales shared a totally common set of laws until the Welsh Assembly came into being. They now have the ability to develop their own laws but in respect of this area of the law they have not yet done so.
    Keith

  41. #41
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    As I;m sure you know, a representitive of the land owner or whoever has the riparian rights has the right to ask you to leave or to use reasonable force to remove you from such land etc., etc., and at the moment thats where it ends........... until better access is obtained.
    As far as i'm aware there is still enshrined in uk law a right of egress on navigable rivers, which means you can get out where you damn well please in the event of an emergency (and i think first iad would constitute an emergency)

    such a shame i used to regularly paddle that stretch with PGL from Court Farm and never ever had a problem.

  42. #42
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    seems to me that a trip or trips should be arranged.
    say one trip starting every half hour and keeping equal distance from each other.
    let the 'bayliff' know about a pending canoe group.
    then compare notes after to see if he slowed down with exhaustion and a hoarse voice by the time the last group go past.
    he may even run himself into the ground or just blow a fuse.
    maybe the last group should suggest a blood pressure check!
    nature is m X-box

  43. #43
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    Of course that is part of his problem throughout the summer, with hundreds of canoes heading down stream at varying speeds.

    I have communicated with a canoe hire company that I have used from time to time and the proprietor told me that many of his clients complain about this gilly's obnoxious behaviour.

    I see no reason why a few more dawdling through the stretch he guards (like a pit bull terrier) would help him understand that we are not going away.

    I am still awaiting a response from the police. If it doesn't come soon I will be contacting the Chief Constable for an explanation.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  44. #44
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    I see no reason why a few more dawdling through the stretch he guards (like a pit bull terrier) would help him understand that we are not going away.
    Alternatively maybe somebody could introduce him to women? Maybe that is what is missing from his life (clearly!)

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    We are seeing a sea-change because of the Internet and new technology.. These fools and bullies on the river banks of England are now under threat because we can record their behavior and publish it instantly. We can easily collect evidence of their bullying and of actual criminal behaviour, report them to the police, make them Youtube celebrities and thereby teach them some manners.

    By the same the token, everything we say on this website and do on the river is open to scrutiny. We have to be very careful how we express ourselves. Assume that every thing you post here will be read by someone who wants to show that canoeists are irresponsible, selfish freeloaders with no consideration for the environment or other river users.

    At the moment we seem to have the moral high ground, lets not lose it for the temporary thrill of putting someone down. We are in this for the long haul. The unique thing about the SOTP is that we have very high standards of behavior and respect for each other. I hope moderators will use their influence to keep these standards in place when we report conflict on the river. Just the facts! Doug exemplifies these standards in his report here.
    Well said and absolutely spot on.

    The facts don't lie folks. Keep it objective.
    The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.

  46. #46
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    The police have taken statements from my friend and I.

    So starts another wait and see period.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  47. #47
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    If the gentleman / "bailiff" in question is a diabetic, and his blood pressure is a high as it seems it might me, I think he needs a dramatic life-style change urgently.
    PWC
    ___________________________________
    Know less, carry more - you're in a canoe !

  48. #48
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    Default P,f,l,o,p

    I had a nice paddle down the Wye yesterday, put in at Keane Bridge,got out at Redbrook,by the Boat Inn,

    [very old pub,log fire,river view],on the way down saw a few Cormorants,and about twenty pairs of Goosander,

    don't tell the anglers truss !

    Has the bloke who gave Doug the hassle been spotted again ?,I am thinking of doing a trip down from Glazbury

    over three days, with camping, if there is a chance of meeting him,I will bring a MEGA PHONE,its good to talk.

  49. #49
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    if there is a chance of meeting him,I will bring a MEGA PHONE,its good to talk.
    Oh yes, there is a VERY good chance of meeting him! He's practically a celebrity. He resides near the Hole in Wall section just before Ross.

  50. #50
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    Doug & Springer5,

    I totally agree with you!

    Hyperion

    That's all we do in this country, take a bloody Valium!. We sit down and let the powers that be, do what they want. Taxes, the price of fuel, we complain ( blockade a fuel depot) for a while and when the Government says "THIS IS NOT THE BRITISH WAY OF DOING THING" we say ok, take a Valium and forget about it.

    Access is a minor thing to the politicians. There are no politicians with conviction now-a-days, their just in it for the job and perks, to keep their landed friends happy (for support for re-election) and to tow the party line.

    The only way things happen in this country, is when the people take action and then it is just a few and they then get branded as activists.

    So, we have a choice, Paddle where and when i want! ....or....just keep taking the Valium!!!

    Has anyone ever raised an E Petition on the UK Government web site here? or sign this one here.
    Last edited by Simms; 3rd-March-2012 at 08:33 PM.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simms View Post
    Doug & Springer5,

    I totally agree with you!

    Hyperion

    That's all we do in this country, take a bloody Valium!. We sit down and let the powers that be, do what they want. Taxes, the price of fuel, we complain ( blockade a fuel depot) for a while and when the Government says "THIS IS NOT THE BRITISH WAY OF DOING THING" we say ok, take a Valium and forget about it.

    Access is a minor thing to the politicians. There are no politicians with conviction now-a-days, their just in it for the job and perks, to keep their landed friends happy (for support for re-election) and to tow the party line.

    The only way things happen in this country, is when the people take action and then it is just a few and they then get branded as activists.

    So, we have a choice, Paddle where and when i want! ....or....just keep taking the Valium!!!

    Has anyone ever raised an E Petition on the UK Government web site here? or sign this one here.
    We've had a petition or more but what do you get? Apathy from the majority of paddlers!

    Where do you get the valium? Not for me, can we force feed the tyrrant of the Hole-in-the-Wall?

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  52. #52
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    Well the time has come to write to the Chief Constable. The officer concerned seem too laid back for my liking.

    I'll report again when I get some action or inaction.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    Well the time has come to write to the Chief Constable. The officer concerned seem too laid back for my liking.
    Doug
    It is the Chief Constable's responsibility to ensure that all of his staff make timely and appropriate responses. If you're really dissatisfied you can go to the IPCC. Being a nice guy, I'm sure you'll give him the opportunity to assure you that your greivance is being properly addressed.

  54. #54
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    I have been advised to start my complaint with the Professional Standards HQ.

    Below is a copy of the police, my latest emails and the complaint
    :

    To Professional Standards HQ:

    I have waited patiently for the police to deal with this case but little if anything has happened regarding the perpetrator.


    A gilly on the River Wye near to the place called Hole-in-the-Wall, challenged my friend and I for stopping on the river bank in an emergency. I was suffering from the sudden onset of a hypoglycaemic attack (I am diabetic).

    The main part of the incident was the aggressive manner and threats that were used by this person against my friend and I.

    The gilly also declared that he was a water bailiff (an Environment Agency, warranted officer). He produced false and misleading documents when asked, but would not allow close inspection.

    This gilly is well known for his aggressive attitude towards canoeists. In order to avoid spoiling my canoeing I would not normally stop in "his area" but a medical emergency made this unavoidable.

    The police seem to have made no progress towards dealing with this person. They accepted his lies re. being a water bailiff and as far as I am aware they have not spoken to him with regards to his behaviour.

    The last email I have received from the police is totally unsympathetic and in a nutshell suggests that I forget about it. There is no mention of dealing with the gilly's bad behaviour.

    This gilly is as far as I am aware still on the river and will probably continue to menace people undertaking a legal and peaceful activity.

    Copy of last email:
    Mr M,

    PC Powell is off work at the moment and has asked me to reply to your E mail.

    The offence of impersonating a Constable is not made out as an Enviroment Agency Water Baliff is not a constable .

    The Police Act 1996 consolidated legislation relating to the police. Subsection 90(1) makes it an offence to impersonate a constable. It states:

    90(1) Any person who, with intent to deceive, impersonates a member of a police force or special constable, or makes any statement or does any act calculated falsely to suggest that he is such a member or constable, commits an offence .

    There is also an offence of impersonating designated / accredited person under Section 4 6Police Reform Act 2002, again an Enviroment Agency Water Baliff is not covered under this legislation.

    Please consider this matter finalised.

    D Boote PS 3236.




    From: Powell,Wendy
    Sent: 19 March 2012 13:59
    To: Boote,Dave
    Subject: FW: reference number; 493-S-011111



    Sgt,

    Can I discuss this with you so that you can look at making contact on my behalf.

    Thanks

    Wendy


    From: douglas.malpus@o2.co.uk [mailto:douglas.malpus@o2.co.uk]
    Sent: 14 March 2012 23:52
    To: Powell,Wendy
    Subject: Re: reference number; 493-S-011111


    Hi Wendy,

    What progress has been made regarding the incident ref no. 493-S-011111?

    I am disappointed about the slow progress in this case. The gilly in this case has been a menace, for a number of years, to canoeists peacefully and lawfully using the River Wye for their activity. Much of his aggression towards canoeists is at odds to the Act of Public Navigation for the River Wye. Navigators have the right to use the river banks. Canoeists cannot access or leave the river if it involves crossing private land without permission but when we are on the river we may use the banks for incidental stops.

    I am also disappointed that he has got away with telling lies about his status, notably impersonating an Environment Agency Water Bailiff. According to an earlier email from you, he said that he was employed by the EA and had reported the incident to them. Both parts of this statement are not true.
    Extract from your email of the 8th September 2011-
    I am the local Police Officer for the area and have spoken with the people concerned. The first man that you saw is employed by the Environment Agency as a water bailiff and gilly for the area. He has submitted a report to them detailing the incident.

    The situation of Paul F and his statement has not been resolved. He was told by the police officer that he saw that, "there was no point making a statement". This seems to be the stumbling block at the moment. Paul F is willing to make a statement.

    Please let me know what is happening or has the case been dropped without reference to the CPS.

    Doug M

    I will report on the reaction I get from this.
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


  55. #55
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    Thanks for the update Doug, I would think some one will meet you to take a statement about your complaint,in due course.

  56. #56

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    I had a similar experience a few years ago on the Wensum. Although I documented everything thoroughly at the time, I initially tried to rectify the situation through the Environment Agency, and didn't report it to the police until 10 months after the incident. As a result, any prosecutions were time barred. The complaint was verbal assault rather than impersonating a police officer. However my point is that if something like that happens, then it's important to make your initial complaint to the police within 6 months of the incident, otherwise you might forfeight your right to bring the hooligans to justice.
    Last edited by sobranie; 4th-April-2012 at 01:26 AM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simms View Post
    Doug & Springer5,

    I totally agree with you!

    Hyperion

    That's all we do in this country, take a bloody Valium!. We sit down and let the powers that be, do what they want. Taxes, the price of fuel, we complain ( blockade a fuel depot) for a while and when the Government says "THIS IS NOT THE BRITISH WAY OF DOING THING" we say ok, take a Valium and forget about it.

    Access is a minor thing to the politicians. There are no politicians with conviction now-a-days, their just in it for the job and perks, to keep their landed friends happy (for support for re-election) and to tow the party line.

    The only way things happen in this country, is when the people take action and then it is just a few and they then get branded as activists.

    So, we have a choice, Paddle where and when i want! ....or....just keep taking the Valium!!!

    Has anyone ever raised an E Petition on the UK Government web site here? or sign this one here.
    I don't take valium and I ain't from this country ! Equally, I don't do e-petitions or sign websites anymore as this is just as USELESS as taking valium.
    Still suggest a "paddle-by" of about 20 or more canoes and see if we can give this ass a little hint or two!
    Sounds like this guy is desperate for a swim to cool off a bit. I'll be down that way in early summer

    "Thinking means not knowing"




  58. #58
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    I'll be down that way over the Jubilee with about 100 paddlers
    Fran



  59. #59
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    Fancy letting me know when? Just in case it coincides with our dates for a mini hol down there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fran View Post
    I'll be down that way over the Jubilee with about 100 paddlers

    "Thinking means not knowing"




  60. #60
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    I'll be on the river mid-June with a large group of students.

    I hope he has time to notice that he hasn't stopped this paddler.

    All of you that go paddling the Wye, enjoy yourselves but don't go intending to aggravate this idiot!!!

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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