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Thread: What has changed since 2001?

  1. #1

    Default What has changed since 2001?

    The BCU says

    "The Government commissioned report "Water-Based Sport and Recreation – the facts" published in December 2001 established:
    • There are 68,310 kilometres of rivers in England and Wales
    • 2179 kilometres of these rivers have navigation rights.
    • There are over 66,000 kilometres of rivers with NO ACCESS
    • Less than 4% of the linear river resource in England and Wales has any public access or right of navigation"


    Does anyone know what extra access has been obtained since that report, which is now ten years old?

    What agreements, voluntary or otherwise have been obtained?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  2. #2
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    I would have thought that a phone call would be needed to one of the people that arrange access

    http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/acce...-arrangements/ lists 3 arrangements

    http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/acce...ation-service/ lists various links

    http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/acce...ss-volunteers/

    The BCU don't appear to have any info on their website that I could find.

    I did see a list of (i think) all access arrangements the other week when looking at membership info so I will see if I can relocate that info.
    --
    Andy

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    for Canoe England to have a policy on VAA
    See http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/news...england-review
    They must also have a list of all arrangements so I would suggest phoning them as otherwise they can not say they work or not...

    The above link says about the review "The Access Policy Group will report in the New Year."

    ...but I can't find it but think I have seen the report (?????).
    --
    Andy

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    Since the 2001 report, Brighton University were commissioned to carry out further studies, probably the most significant was this one into Voluntary Access Agreements:

    http://www.brighton.ac.uk/chelsea/ne...anoereport.pdf

    The executive summary is not shown here but was given to the government and was used as the basis for many of the responses you will be getting from MPs who cannot be bothered to read the whole report.

    Any critical reading will evidence the fact that Brighton started with a list of rivers against their own criteria, reduced this where they felt they were likely to be unsuccessful and then went on to be pretty much unsuccessful with the rest. The only real coup was the Mersey Canoe Trail which was local government sponsored so does not really fit the criteria. The Teme was a joke with a minute length achieved, the Wear was a reduction in previous accepted access and the Waveney always had access under an agreement with the BCU.

    So the real question is, what has been achieved since 2006? Paddlers have realised that VAAs are a nonsense, Caffyn has reinforced opinions regarding rights of access, the WCA dropped all VAAs, the BCU are soft pedalling on the issue despite a mockery on the Ure where the BCU were trying to impose sanctions on their own members using a river.

    Has there been more access ‘granted’ – probably almost definitely No.

    Has there been more access ‘enjoyed’ – probably Yes.

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    I've emailed my regional paddle sport chairman...although got an "I'm away" response.

    Thank's Adrian, that report was useful....stops me from looking around
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    Andy

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    Please explain: You have NO legal right to paddle on 95% of England rivers???
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyBR View Post
    Please explain: You have NO legal right to paddle on 95% of England rivers???
    Hi Tony,

    Can of worms and that wasn't an easy quick question to answer. Apologies but I can only show you the forum area which discusses the issue....

    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...ccess-Campaign
    --
    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by andylincs View Post
    Hi Tony,

    Can of worms and that wasn't an easy quick question to answer. Apologies but I can only show you the forum area which discusses the issue....

    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...ccess-Campaign

    Hi Andy,

    I´ve been following this weird (to me) question of river access in UK here at SOTP for many years, and that´s why this high percentage caught my attention, as I never tought it could be something like this....

    Not that I don´t want to understand details of the UK situation...well, ok, I don´t.....but the size of the problem got a new dimension for me now.

    If you´re saying that, to get to a river, you have to cross lands that are 95% private, than we are quite similar.... Guess that this happens all over the world. But if in England you have people privately owning 95% of the rivers (the flowing water!), then you are living in a crazy place for sure!!!

    Well, ok....next time I paddle in UK I´ll ask for local help on that subject.....or get arrested! Hope the prisons there are better than here!
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  9. #9

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    Hi Tony
    Some people think that 96% is too low and in fact 98% of canoeable English and Welsh rivers are disputed by land owners and anglers who believe, quite sincerely, that they have the right to stop canoeing on 'their' rivers. It is my belief that most paddlers act as if this is the case, although some do paddle on some of these waters, risking conflict, but almost certainly not legal consequences... because nobody believes that a crime is being committed,but only civil trespass, where damages have to be proven for a significant penalty to be incurred. There is some but not much legal precedence to support this. The whole situation is very confused. Unfortunately the Government bases it access policy on the belief that land owners do have the right to stop paddlers... so the actual legal position is somewhat irrelevant
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    No jurisprudence yet on that? What about "social interest" or "natural resources" laws? There must be a breach linking water to social benefits/use. As well as canoeing as a sport (social interest). Why don´t you form a group ($) and hire a lawyer to sue the State or an agressive known landowner over that matter to start a case law? There is the risk of loosing ground, of course, but that risk will be pre-calculated by your side lawyer... It´s a matter of collecting money among a group of paddlers and paying a case to run.... Can be fun!
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

  11. #11

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    Hi Tony
    Latest estimate is £500,000... it might have to be on a river by river basis, so maybe much more...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Hi Tony
    Latest estimate is £500,000... it might have to be on a river by river basis, so maybe much more...
    Well, I surely don´t know how the law system works there, but here you set the value of your cause and, if it´s a matter of social interest, there is not even need to set a value, as social aspects cannot be valued in advance, and the state cannot charge you for asking rights over public interest. There are also many ways to start "free" causes based on petitions signed by a X number of people involved in the case....

    I tought you could start a cause over one case of access denied, one stretch of a river.... Just to start acumulating jurisprudence over the matter. If you win one after another, then you have your needed case-law to advance in a larger scale.

    Sue an agressive land-owner for harassment.... see what happens!
    Tony BR
    www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br
    www.canoacanadense.com.br/english.htm
    Past 20 years teaching Biology!
    Next 20 building Canoes!!!

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