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Thread: Lifting gear - for heavy boats

  1. #1

    Default Lifting gear - for heavy boats

    Any suggestions where I might try to find some help with getting my boat on and off the roof of my car on my own? I cannot physically lift it on my shoulders. And no, I don't want a different (lighter) boat.

    I'm beginning to look at a home-made system with Rollers - but don't really know quite how I'd attach them, because I have looked at commercial lifting racks - and they're well out of my price range.

    Anyone have any bright ideas?

    I've got a Prospector and a Volvo estate ......

    Many thanks

    Rosie D

  2. #2

    Default lifting gear

    Kari Tek do a rather nice bit of kit which allows ease of getting boats on and off roofs - it sounds as though you have looked at this in terms of cost.

    Kayak Carry Systems - KCS. They do a rangs of different trolleys etc. They have one which you use as a trolley then when at the car you attach it to the roof/boot (join) and can then lift one end of the canoe onto it and then push the rest up.

    Both systems still involve lifting but more concentrated and with advantages.

    Dave R

  3. #3

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    look around some of the dinghy sites, sailing clubs etc. The venerable Mirror Dinghy was described as cartoppable, which it was. If you had loads of help. Same with lazers. Some bright sparks came up with a system of angled ally tubes which slotted into the ends of the roofrack at one end, and the other end on the ground. Lean craft on tubes, find balance point, and slide up and onto rack. Or...... tie ropes to rack, along tube, under canoe leaning ready on the tubes and then over and back. pull ropes from other side of car and the 2:1 pulley you've just made will move canoe onto rack with ease.... of course padding etc is advised. and avoid corners and things that catch. some guys made a cradle to carry their lazer and then that was pulled up onto the rack.
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    I have to lift a boat onto a Zafira (a people carrier). It has roof rails along the edges, at eye level. With the roof bars (that go across) added it is high!

    The trick I use is as follows.

    First, it depends on having roof rails along the side of the vehicle and then having the roof bars on top of the rails, spaced wider than the boat width.

    I start with the boat inverted (upside down). For ease of description, it should be parallel to the car, about half a boat length from the car, with the bow (or stern) level with the mid point of the roof bars (so it sticks out to the front or back of the car)

    The hardest bit: lift the stern (the end sticking out) up onto one's shoulders (you should only have half the weight - the other end is still on the ground!!). If necessary use a couple of blocks near the lifting end seat to get the end off the ground so you can squat down for an easier lift.

    Now 'spin' the boat on its grounded end so that the bit on your shoulder rests on the roof rail (now you should see why it was half a boat length from the car - there should be just sufficient space for you to place the boat end on the roof rail). Slide the end of the boat until it lies between the two roof bars (so that it can't slip off sideways!)

    It should now be resting happily on the side of the car, not on any paintwork, etc.

    The only problems occur on smooth tarmac where the nose may skid along the ground. If this is going to be a problem, throw the painter(rope) under the car, and trap it in the opposite side car door (requires no knots!).

    You should now be able to lift the other end and slide the boat across the car so it rests on the rails balanced between the roof bars.

    Simple tipping/leverage lets you raise one corner onto a roof bar, then another, to spin the boat round to be fore-aft.

    Now clamp down to the roof bars & rails. (I tie the painter to the ends of the rails as they are good hard points.

    Philip
    [Again; the key to this manoeuvre is having roof rails with bars spaced wider than the boat width.]

  5. #5

    Default mmmm Pricey!

    Thanks Dave R
    re Kari Tek - I did hunt round on the web for this type of commmercial lifting gear. A bit(!) pricey for me really. I was hoping for something less than the cost of my boat!

    I've not heard of KCS - I'll hunt for them and take a peek.

    Thanks Don R - I did take a look at something like this on theweb - about £1500 (aaaggghhh!) but I've seen this in a sort of "Heath Robinson" fashion on one of my canoeing associates cars. I'll now have to think hard about who it was..... but thanks for jogging my memory.

    And Phil - it all depends on your roof bars and rails and I don't have them BUT I get the concept...... Heath Robinson is springing to mind again!

    Appreciate all your time and your suggestions .....it's still looking like a homemade option but I'll take all designs into account

    Rosie
    Last edited by RosieD-UK; 22nd-February-2006 at 09:26 PM.

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    Big Al has a simple system that allows him to slide his boat up two pieces of wood and on to the roof rack, I'll contact him and see if he has any photos,

    It's so simple I'm having problems describing it well
    JD
    He knows not where he's going, For the ocean will decide, It's not the destination, It's the glory of the ride

  7. #7
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    This feels like it's going to be a rubbish post, but here goes.

    I have the advantage of owing a 1992 405 estate, which means that I never really worry too much about how the boat goes on the car, I kinda lift one end onto the roofrack, and just kinda half push, half lift it from there. It's handy as the top of the estate door bears most of the weight, not me ...

    More usefully to you perhaps, what about a trailer ?

    I am seriously looking at a trailer as it'll be much less hassle to load, plus I can get a couple of boats on there (Gav mate, stop lurking and sign in !), which'll be great for shuttle trips, or multiday trips as we'll only need one car. I'm probably going to replace the 405 soon with something higher, and the trailer will be a definite at that stage.

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    Default Loading Bars

    I have a system I use to slide the boat up on to the roof. I'll get Bikemec to take a few pics of it in use this Sunday, and post them here for you to see.

  9. #9

    Default Trailer

    Thanks BikeMc and and Big Al. I'd appreciate a photo or two
    And Monkey Pork - My car is older than yours but as it's the only one I got.... I don't think the rest of the family would like me tooooo much if Iw as quite as cavalier with the paintwork as you make out
    However, a trailer is a real alternative, I guess.
    I'd like not to have the inconvenience of lock it or lose it in car parks though..... I'm well torn,
    but thanks Guys for all the suggestions
    Keep 'em coming

    Rosie

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    Default Loading Bars

    Here is my method for loading the boat onto the car. Where I live is quite windy so I developed this to make sure that I didn't drop the boat on the car when loading it by my self.

    Its just two lengths of 2x2" wood about 7ft long and attached to the roofrack with straps (old bike toeclip straps).

    You will have to work out how to attach it to your type of roofrack.



    Set the canoe onto its edge and lay it against the bars.


    Reach under and lift the lower gunnel.



    Slide the canoe up the bars onto the roof.


    *Beware*
    When the upper gunnel reaches the top of the bar, lift the lower gunnel up level before pushing it across the car. If you don't, the thwart will bash against the roof of the car and scrape the paintwork.


    Its even easier taking it off as gravity is on your side!!

    The Loading bars fit inside the car when I'm on the water.

    Hope this has been of some help.
    Alan.
    Last edited by Big Al.; 29th-November-2017 at 11:07 PM.

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    Excellent, that's a cracking looking idea, backed up by some very clear pictures!

    ... and it's dead simple to implement too.

    Thanks for this, I'd expect to see open boats being loaded like this all over the country from now onwards.

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    Default Pics

    Thanks must go to Bikemec for the pictures.

    Alan.

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    Superb. Great post. Just the sort of information sharing I hoped to see on the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al.
    *Beware*
    When the upper gunnel reaches the top of the bar, lift the lower gunnel up level before pushing it across the car. If you don't, the thwart will bash against the roof of the car and scrape the paintwork.
    I sense there is a painful story behind this piece of advice
    John

  14. #14

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    exactly what I was trying to describe. Are'nt photos wonderful!
    Obscured by Clouds

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    Great system Big Al. Can see myself copying this sometime soon (as long as you haven't patented it! ).
    Matto

    Ours was the marsh country, down by the river, within, as the river wound, twenty miles of the sea.


  16. #16

    Default Fantastic

    Thanks Alan
    Looks so simple even I could make one of these!

    B&Q at the weekend I think!

    Thanks again

    Rosie

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    Modify the poles & I'm sure you could use them for poling as well - or is that too stupid?

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    The guy that taught me how to lift a canoe was 6ft tall 240 lbs and he still had trouble. I am significantly smaller and had more trouble with his method. Then one day I met up with an older lady in her 70's at the lake and I showed her how to do the Canadian stroke and the box stroke. She was grateful and to make long story short she showed me how she picked up her canoe and portaged it. To get into our local lake, first you have to portage a kilometer from your car. This is quite a feat for a 70 year old woman solo but she does it all the time. I figured this was one piece of wisdom I couldn't do without because I hear everyone is going to get older.

    I wrote an article a while back about this tecnique.

    I heard that the definition of portaging is; "A chance to labor up a trail wearing a really large hat that weighs 60 pounds. Unless you own a Kevlar boat, in which case this is an opportunity to stroll merrily up a trail wearing a 30 pound hat while your fellow paddlers shoot you nasty looks ." In any case it isn't the best part of the sport, but it does separate the wimps and whiners. In truth the more portages you are forced to make the fewer undesirable people you are going to meet.The portage may not be fun but it is rewarding. My canoe weighs 80 pounds and I carry it solo all the time. I had the ground collapse under me once and I dropped two feet without loosing a grip or balance, but that event taught me how things can go wrong in an instant so it is advisable to have someone behind you when portaging. At the very least, have your signal whistle with you if you do separate from your partner. I also like to have good footwear on for a portage. Too many people like little water shoes and sandals on their feet when they canoe, and they may be comfortable but are entirely inappropriate for portaging. Lifting a canoe is also an art form of sorts. Most people have a hard time to lift a canoe by themselves. I have seen big large men that struggle with lighter canoes than mine, and even with little kayaks. Lifting a canoe is all about practice, coordination, balance, and a little bit of strength is handy, but you don't need much. I have a good side and a bad side, and it is even more difficult to do when it is windy, but once you master the simple technique it gets easier every time. Once you have your canoe up on your shoulders it is all about stamina. Stamina in this case is dependant upon lots of practice and a comfortable yoke. My old fiberglass canoe doesn't have a yoke so I have to tie the paddles in to make shoulder bars. I also wear a life jacket too when using this system, it makes things a little easier on the shoulders. Dropping the canoe is just a reverse of the lifting process done with control. If it is windy, I usually put my back to the wind to avoid dropping the canoe on myself in the event of a strong gust and a loss of control.

    To pick up a canoe, I always step up to the side with my strong arm to the back of the canoe, and my weaker arm to the front. This will be the best position for me to use my body strength to its best advantage, since my strong arm is now in position to do the lifting, and my weaker arm is in position for the balancing.

    With both hands I grab the yoke or gunwale closest to me and pull the canoe towards myself so the side comes up onto my knees where the waterline would be. This will almost always get you wet from the waist down. Just deal with it, you will dry out.

    Then with my strong arm I grab the closest gunwale and pull it right up to my waist and bend the knees slightly. With the weaker arm, I grab the middle of the yoke and lift leaning back slightly, rolling the canoe up. About half way up the roll, you can catch the far gunwale with your strong arm and pull the canoe onto your upper legs.

    Once balanced on your legs you can switch your grip. Let go of the yoke with the weak arm and grab the far gunwale. Let go of the far gunwale with the strong arm and switch your grip to the near gunwale. With your strong arm, push the canoe up by the inner gunwale, straightening the arm. Some people like to reach under and cradle the canoe with the arm for added stability, I cannot do that.

    With the right amount of pull from the weaker arm the canoe will roll onto your shoulders. It is not effortless but with practice it gets quite easy even if you are not a muscle man. After the yoke is balanced on your shoulders, assess your balance and footing, and point the front of the canoe towards any wind.


    This is not the definitive way to pick up a canoe, but some variation of this will work for you. Using simple physics, I routinely lift a canoe weighing almost half my own body weight. It's not rocket science but it is science. To place the canoe on the car I walk up to the side and tilt the canoe so the gunwale sits on the roof rack bars, some times leaning in, then with the outside arm press the outer gunwale up until my arm is straight. Next, once I am sure I have the weight supported; I step back and out from under the canoe so I can get both hands on the outer gunwale and slide the canoe into position on the roof rack. Removing it is just the reverse, pushing the gunwale up with both hands sliding it out to the edge of the bars, stepping under and letting the yoke rest on the shoulders before stepping away.

  19. #19
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    Whyayeman - spot on.

    I use the same method myself and I'm a lightweight(140lbs) and 5 foot 4 lifting a 58lb canoe.

    Once you've learnt the method it becomes a smooth and almost effortless lift, technique being everything.

    (Mind I was a gymnast 30 years ago and have the remnants of over developed shoulders.)

    Q

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    Default Lifting bars-Thanks Big Al!

    My Vista weighs in at 37kg's and does not have long strong gunwhales to hold onto like a canadaian canoe, nor does it have a yoke to carry. I can move it on my own very easily with a trolley, I can lift it on the car and take it off only if I can lean one end on the ground (preferably grass), so for daily car park use I'm really stuck. My wife is not that strong and she finds it very difficult to lift a kayak high enough to get on the car roof so...

    I saw Big Al's idea and made my own lifting bars. My roof rack slightly overhangs the sides of the car so I made a slight variation and wow it has transformed our time on the water! It is so easy to use. I made mine out of heavier wood as that's all that I had at the time but hey a huge big THANKYOU to BIG AL for the idea and the forum for facilitating it!

    Woodsmoke
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    Hey Woodsmoke, glad it was of use to you.
    I would be interested to see what other people have done to adapt the original design, as it might spark off a few more ideas for me.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
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    Default Big Al's idea -enhancements?

    I've just built myself the rails as described by Big Al (thank you very much!) and tested getting my boat on and off.

    I can manage it without much problem (As I'm a wuss, I'm glad we bought Royalex and not something heavier!)


    Something that I've been wondering about though, is has anyone put hinges in the rails, to allow them to be transported more easily?

    If you have tried it, can we have some info please?
    I'm reluctant to throw away 30minutes of not-very-hard work and 4 worth of wood on a stupid idea...


    Jay
    It was like that when I got here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordyosch View Post
    Something that I've been wondering about though, is has anyone put hinges in the rails, to allow them to be transported more easily?

    If you have tried it, can we have some info please?
    I'm reluctant to throw away 30minutes of not-very-hard work and 4 worth of wood on a stupid idea...


    Jay
    Sounds like a great idea, go for it and we can call it the "Mk2"
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyAyeMan View Post
    Snip......
    To pick up a canoe, I always step up to the side with my strong arm to the back of the canoe, and my weaker arm to the front. This will be the best position for me to use my body strength to its best advantage, since my strong arm is now in position to do the lifting, and my weaker arm is in position for the balancing.

    With both hands I grab the yoke or gunwale closest to me and pull the canoe towards myself so the side comes up onto my knees where the waterline would be. This will almost always get you wet from the waist down. Just deal with it, you will dry out.

    Then with my strong arm I grab the closest gunwale and pull it right up to my waist and bend the knees slightly. With the weaker arm, I grab the middle of the yoke and lift leaning back slightly, rolling the canoe up. About half way up the roll, you can catch the far gunwale with your strong arm and pull the canoe onto your upper legs.

    Once balanced on your legs you can switch your grip. Let go of the yoke with the weak arm and grab the far gunwale. Let go of the far gunwale with the strong arm and switch your grip to the near gunwale. With your strong arm, push the canoe up by the inner gunwale, straightening the arm. Some people like to reach under and cradle the canoe with the arm for added stability, I cannot do that.

    With the right amount of pull from the weaker arm the canoe will roll onto your shoulders. It is not effortless but with practice it gets quite easy even if you are not a muscle man. After the yoke is balanced on your shoulders, assess your balance and footing, and point the front of the canoe towards any wind.

    .
    Hi there:
    I've only worn 'the hat' the once as most of the time there are two of us and we're not carrying great distances so it's easier to use the handle each end but:

    I'm curious as to why you don't let one end of the boat rest on the ground as you turn it up and over. I did this with our SF prospector (no idea how much it weighs - it's plywood and just under 16ft long) and it was relatively easy to lift as:
    part of the weight was taken by the ground
    the end on the ground made the whole affair more stable whilst lifting.

  25. #25
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    I made myself a pair of Big Al's canoe roof rack rails a wee while ago and found them to do the job very well. Then I began to wonder If a more easily stored 'mark II' could be designed.

    So, I got out my circular saw and cut them in half (well, when I say half I mean I cut one in half and the other one a little 40/60 because I wasn't paying attention ). Anyway, after this wanton act of vandalism I fitted hinges to the undersides so they fold up to go in the car.

    I was concerned that they might break under load and drop my precious boat on the ground. So far they've done well. My boat is only 25kg and I do get it in the roof as quickly as possible, I'm not sure how long they'd last with a heavy boat though.

    They're still 'prototype' at the moment as I couldn't get the hinges I wanted. When I get some I'll fit a pair of 'side opening' hinges to each rail, this should transfer more of the load back to the wood itself and away from the hinges and improve strength.


    So far, so good and I'll let you know how version IIb goes.


    Jay

    (many thanks to Big Al for the original idea)
    It was like that when I got here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willpower View Post
    Hi there:

    I'm curious as to why you don't let one end of the boat rest on the ground as you turn it up and over... ...it was relatively easy to lift as:
    part of the weight was taken by the ground
    the end on the ground made the whole affair more stable whilst lifting.
    A friend; Tim does that.

    It grinds the hell out of the deck plates and you cannot always do it; sometimes getting out in the water at small, poor maintained portage trails.

    My way is not any harder either and less damaging to my canoe so I am waiting for the levitation machine as the next quantum leap in portaging.
    Lloyd

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    I use the same technique, bit of knee buckling as I'm nursing ligament damage from an old war (er well ok old skateboard) injury but it works for me. Sometimes struggle getting it high enough to rest on the Zafira after a tiring day but its usually achieved without incident.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyAyeMan View Post
    I am waiting for the levitation machine as the next quantum leap in portaging.
    I'd get one of them fitted, by waiting do you mean you have one on order??
    Last edited by Pl@inum; 5th-October-2007 at 08:04 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RosieD-UK View Post
    Any suggestions where I might try to find some help with getting my boat on and off the roof of my car on my own? I cannot physically lift it on my shoulders. And no, I don't want a different (lighter) boat.

    I'm beginning to look at a home-made system with Rollers - but don't really know quite how I'd attach them, because I have looked at commercial lifting racks - and they're well out of my price range.

    Anyone have any bright ideas?

    I've got a Prospector and a Volvo estate ......

    Many thanks

    Rosie D
    isaw a bloke lifting a boat ontohis car a while back no pics so i shall try to explain;
    1 the front of the boat was liftet to an extention piece which was on the front roof bar the extention had a bolt sticking up
    2 the canoe had a dod of wood in between the handle space with a large hole drilled in which was when lifted placed on the bolt on the extention bar (wish id taken pic then hope this makes sence)
    3 the boat was then lifted using the front of the boat as a pivet point and went on with what seemed ease
    4 all done in a matter of mins
    5backend secured then the front lifted of the bolt and secured, dod of wood removed and put in car and extention pushed back in under boat
    the extention bar looked as though it was a perminate fixture straight box with the underside cut away to enable the slid in to the lift position.

    sorry no pics but at the time kayaker no need to go futher than that i'm sure

  29. #29
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    This is the method I use which means you only have to lift one end at a time onto the back of the car.

    Firstly I made some bolts up with nuts & rubber tap washers which fit into holes drilled at the end of each corner of the roofrack just to make sure the canoe doesen't fall off the side when loading.



    The rubber tap washers at the top are allowed to spin if the boat runs along it. I loop a length of cord which goes through a piece of plastic pipe which in turn goes through a piece of pipe lagging stuff (see photo you'll know what I mean).



    This is for the canoe to rest on & slide up as I load & unload.


    This is probably the most important element so the cord must be the correct length to ensure no scratched paintwork etc .



    Next I made a wooden frame with an axle (wooden dowel) which fits over the end of the canoe and fixes with a bolt through the plastic end bit (what is that bit called )





    There's quite a bit of side play when it fixed but this (as it happens) helps when rolling the canoe over.



    I then use the wheels from my trolly which just slot onto the axle and fixed with the pins again which came with the trolly.



    The canoe is then rolled onto its side.



    And then upside down.



    It's then a simple task to lift the front up and place it on the foam roller at the back of the car.



    I then ease it on further from underneath before going to the back of the canoe to slid it all the way on.



    I remove the wheels whilst on the move (to expensive to lose ) but leave the frame & bolts attached. Getting off is then simply the reverse of putting on. Hope this may be of use to someone if only to generate ideas maybe.

  30. #30
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    Spot on and a very practical use for trolley wheels.
    If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
    Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau

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    Damned if I can find it now, but on one of the Kayak angling forums a fella was struggling to get a Sit on Top Kayak onto the roof rack on a LR Discovery. He got round it with an aluminium ladder - secured the yak to the ladder then lift one end on to the rear roorack rail go to the other end and lift n slide it on. Secure the lot and Bobs your aunties live in lover. The ladder even had small wheels at one end. And the ladder is something useful at home!
    Good luck!
    Paul
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    Just use a smaller car. If you can afford to put the fuel in a big one these days, this my be a worth while investment for you...

    Learning to pick up a canoe is always an option too if you are strong and healthy...
    Lloyd

    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...


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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneRanger View Post
    I remove the wheels whilst on the move (to expensive to lose ) .
    How do you do that while driving?

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    Default Testing Big Al's ramps

    Made myself a "Big Al Loading Ramp" on Friday evening, and then cut it in half and hinged it as per Lordyosch's idea.
    I had to screw a bit of 2"x2" to the underside of both rails to stiffen it for when it was propped against the roof rack, as I felt it flexed a little at the hinges.
    I also placed some between the lower section of each rail to ensure that they stayed parallel with each other.

    Anyway, tried it out this morning during a short canal trip, and it worked a treat.
    It folded neatly into the boot and was out and erected in under a minute.

    After a leisurely paddle, I set it up again ready for loading.
    I moved aside to let a car past, and watched with amazement as he drove slowly over the lower end of both rails!

    Fortunately, there was no real damage done, just a couple of bent screws.
    By now a crowd had gathered to watch, and I'm happy to report that it was lifted onto the roof withoout a hitch. I even got a small round of applause.

    If anyone else is thinking of building one of these, then give it a go. It has opened up the world of solo paddling to me, as previously I had always needed help car-topping my heavy canoe.

    Big Al, you de man!!
    Newbond

    'In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.'

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Bangor, Co Down.
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    I'm just glad to hear it works for you. If it means more people can get out paddling then it can't be bad.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seven miles from Loch Eck
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Just managed to portage solo with my discovery scout. (78 lbs) I have a small portage to the car from where I keep it, this is more difficult than getting it on and off the car. I couldnt get the yoke on my shoulders but walked with its base on my shoulders, limiting my field of vision, felt like an achievment getting to this stage. Next time I am aiming for a proper lift where I have more vision and have the yoke on my neck.

    Jamie

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Gloucester
    Posts
    2,767

    Default

    A bit of a late entry on this thread, but there we go!

    While I can load by open boat onto my car ok, I've got a 15ft SOT kayak that weighs over 30kgs and is an exceptionally awkward shape to handle. I was swopping the open on the car for the SOT earlier, and having been mulling Big Al's idea round in my head for a bit had a sudden realisation that my canoe poles might work.

    I have standard roof bars (a bit like these) which have long ago lost the end caps leaving the hollow bar exposed. The poles leant very neatly angled with the pole ends sitting into the hollow ends of the bars. I was then able to easily slide the SOT up the poles and onto the roof.

    OK, for a SOT loading system it suffers from the major flaw of using canoe poles, but if you use a canoe pole anyway it might work well with an open. Wouldn't try it with fibreglass poles though!
    'Of all the paths you choose in life, make sure some of them are wet'

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Bangor, Co Down.
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    I had thought of something like that at first, but couldn't find a way to attach the poles to the rack. I'm glad it works for you, maybe you could post a photo or two showing how the pole stays in place.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ulverston, Cumbria
    Posts
    524

    Default

    I've long been contemplating a new design for a trolley which would allow use as a portage device, loading device and storage device. I'm sure there must be a way to use it for all three. When I come up with the idea I'll let you know.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Rossendale, Lancs
    Posts
    594

    Default Go Go Big Al!

    "Big Al's Loading Rails" is sure to be a huge brand in years to come.

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Portstewart, Northern Ireland
    Posts
    529

    Default Try a trailer

    I have a Daxara 107 trailer from Indespension with a longer drawbar added (2.5 metres instead of 1 metre).

    http://www.indespension.co.uk/b2c/ap...OID=700&slnk=1

    This fits my 16' Erne Tourer canoe with the centre over the wheels.

    I have fitted two 2"x1" pine bars covered with pipe lagging foam on top of the metal frame, fixed with bolts through wooden blocks under the trailer rim. It is easy to wheel the trailer up close to the canoe, lift one end onto the trailer and then lift the canoe near the centre and slide it onto the trailer. My mast, sail and boom (from Solway Dory) also fit alongside.

    The trailer cruises smoothly at 65 mph, and I can wheel it by hand into my garage with the canoe on it. I store the canoe on the trailer (with the ties slackened off) so it is ready for take-off whenever I get the urge.

    I got the trailer new for 149.99 in a special offer in October, so it didn't even cost more than roofbars!

    There are more ways than one of skinning a cat ....

    Best Wishes

    Frank

  42. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Andrews
    Posts
    375

    Default

    Had an unforeseen problem when picking up my canoe from Stirling Canoes (no marks on canoe btw, no shoddy workmanship in the Ontario either) as the roofbars for my 406 were too narrow for the beam of the canoe at its widest - there's a sort of sloping moulding comes from the horizontal bar to the boltdown points - and the gunwales were too far apart to sit reliably on the horizontal sections.

    To help me out, Dave R provided some bits of 2 X 4 to effectively widen the bars, still using them - but with beefy zipties rather than gaffatape.

    But for getting the canoe on and off I minimise the lifting and putting down of the boat. So it's lifted from where it lives in the yard, which isn't at ground level so it's an easy lift comparatively speaking, and at the car it's a case of getting the LH side onto the car's RH side, then sort of "walking" the canoe over till it's astride the bars. I'm not inclined to do this in high winds in case the boat's blown away and makes dents in the bodywork.

    At the destination it's the same pattern, basically avoiding the lifting/putting down bit as much as possible. So it's off the car onto me, carry to water and down it goes. After use, it's the reverse.

    Blutack showed me to lift one end of the boat when still in the water, get under it, then walk to the middle lifting it higher as you go - much easier than an across-gunwales grab like I've seen suggested elsewhere.

    Thanks, BT.

    These methods let me handle the boat on my own, which is very liberating at my age (55)

    Ian
    That shall float upon the river,
    Like a yellow leaf in Autumn

  43. #43

    Default Im designing a system now!

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieD-UK View Post
    Thanks Dave R
    re Kari Tek - I did hunt round on the web for this type of commmercial lifting gear. A bit(!) pricey for me really. I was hoping for something less than the cost of my boat!

    I've not heard of KCS - I'll hunt for them and take a peek.

    Thanks Don R - I did take a look at something like this on theweb - about 1500 (aaaggghhh!) but I've seen this in a sort of "Heath Robinson" fashion on one of my canoeing associates cars. I'll now have to think hard about who it was..... but thanks for jogging my memory.

    And Phil - it all depends on your roof bars and rails and I don't have them BUT I get the concept...... Heath Robinson is springing to mind again!

    Appreciate all your time and your suggestions .....it's still looking like a homemade option but I'll take all designs into account

    Rosie

    well I am a A2 design studant making exacly this type of system, the device will use a telescopic ladder style device with friction locks on a sliding bar, very hard to explain. my point is that if you hold fire on buying one if you wait for a few weeks i would be happy to send you the terchnical designs (of you know how to use them) with all materials, the budjet is under 150 quid, i will however have a copywrite on it so you would be unable to sell them in the future. the main differnce from other models is that mine has click on wheels to drag the kaack over long distances, it has a locking device to make sure you dont hurt yourself and its telescopic.
    the only thing i ask in return is that you give me feedback on the designs that i can put in my port folio
    if you want to contact me about it plz email me
    christopher.cooper AT wycliffe .co.uk
    that goes for anyone who reads this and is not a business
    i look forward to eharing your responces


    christopher cooper
    Last edited by Amelia; 12th-September-2008 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Making email spam safe

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Shire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    158

    Default

    I know its been a while since this idea was created but i have just made one,


    The cable ties were temp as i was just checking it out first.


    I might cut them down and bolt a second piece on so they fold up.

  45. #45

    Default

    Hi all I am working on a similar rack myself with two rails but the other side of the rack has a round tube with a handle on like a well has, two lines go down to canoe then turn handle and canoe is pulled up rails on to roof rack. I have made all the parts but not tried I yet it should work. Cheers jay

  46. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    738

    Default

    Canoesailer...I have been trying to look at ratchet arrangements this weekend with a mind to this sort of thing....but the things I found were too big as industrial applications....look forward to seeing what you come up with

  47. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Bangor, Co Down.
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by canoesailer View Post
    Hi all I am working on a similar rack myself with two rails but the other side of the rack has a round tube with a handle on like a well has, two lines go down to canoe then turn handle and canoe is pulled up rails on to roof rack. I have made all the parts but not tried I yet it should work. Cheers jay
    I had often thought of a similar arrangement, but I had hoped to use a 12v pistol drill to drive the mechanism. I came to the conclusion that it would need some sort of gearing to transfer the load. I think I'd still have a go at it if I could just lay my hands on a small enough "worm gear" to put on the drive shaft.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  48. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bridgewater Canal, Cheshire
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    My system is purely manual for getting the sailing canoe on the roof. The towels are for scratch prevention.




  49. #49

    Default

    There is a rack on the market called the rhino rack ( cost more than the canoe) it can be found on utube, it uses 18v drill a worm drives a cog, Whitch turns the tube but a 7 or 8 inch handle will do instead . Cheers jay

  50. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Bangor, Co Down.
    Posts
    4,609

    Default

    I thought that the 12v drill could be powered by the car battery.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  51. #51

    Default

    As an alternative I use this stand. Its two pieces of ply, 20 mil if I recall, slotted together for each end. I can lift the canoe from the ground onto it, then turn the canoe over. From there I get under and can lift it on the yoke and onto the back rail, slide it on over and its done. The stand then pulls apart and slides in to the boot of the car. Its a heavy canoe and I'm not that strong or tall, I think the sculpted yoke makes a bit of a difference on my shoulders
    [IM

    G][/IMG


    ]
    "If you are not part of the solution, maybe you are part of the problem!"

    Recreational paddler & outdoor activity instructor

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