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Thread: Access map

  1. #241
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    Thank you Keith, I am always a bit slow with anything of a technological basis, it will be a while before I am at home in cyber space.

    You have done Stirling work in collating the information into a working tool, when its complete, it will be interesting to see how many river's and lakes are not open for navigation, by none powered craft. As against those which have a 'historic' [ie for the last 100 years] ban, which has fallen into disuse.

    As I have read, you say 'though adding information and experiences of the waterways,it will make a useful resource'.

    My bet is that the problems will come from water company's who own large bodies of water, and fly fishing interests, backed up by the rich and shameless

  2. #242
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    Having problems with the Output map or rivers list - both go to an Internal Server Error (google chrome and Int Expl).

    Input still loads (but doesn't show me what's already there so I can't add anything at present)

    Any thoughts folks?
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

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  3. #243
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    Been having the same problem here.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    Having problems with the Output map or rivers list - both go to an Internal Server Error (google chrome and Int Expl).

    Input still loads (but doesn't show me what's already there so I can't add anything at present)

    Any thoughts folks?
    Found the problem and it's now OK. Sorry for the problem.
    Keith

  5. #245
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    Default Access Map Now Ready

    The latest upgrade of the Access Map package is now complete and I’m pleased to announce a number of changes and new introductions.


    1. All background maps now default to a terrain map so that river courses are not obscured by or confused with the road network



    2. Rivers in Scotland have been added to provide a contrast with the situation in England and wales and hopefully a useful service to those north of the border who, whilst enjoying much greater access rights, nevertheless still experience access issues and spurious attempts to restrict access.


    3. The information on the maps now comes in three levels.
    a. The basic U.K. map and colour coded tracks of rivers.
    b. You can click on an individual river for more detail but the best route is to access details of an individual river from an alphabetical list of rivers/sections. This will highlight the selected river within the context of its catchment area with an “info box” indicating the selected river/ section. This contains a summary comment, a graph showing users feedback on the access situation and pins indicating reported incidents.


    c. There are also links to the detailed comments of users, the full details of incident reports with photos and video where available and input forms to enable further access comments and incident reports to be submitted.



    4. To speed up displaying of the maps, the UK maps are compiled off-line in advance.
    5. When you select a particular river from the list, it and the other rivers in the catchment are displayed in full colour. All other rivers are displayed in a subdued form so that, whilst they are still visible and accessible, attention is focused on your selected river within the context of its catchment.
    6. When submitting new rivers you can choose to use the password (for those that know it) which will immediately recompile the UK maps to include the data you have just added (causing an apparent delay in making your submission) or not use the password which will complete your submission much faster but not display the new data until your submission has been authorised and the UK map recompiled (usually overnight).


    I believe we have now achieved two of our key objectives;-
    1. The creation of the facility to record and access relevant information on access in a convenient form
    2. The entry of basic information on river locations/tracks and the generally accepted situation on your rights of access.


    The next objective is to populate the map with relevant information from users on how access actually works in practice, what the real situation actually is on the water, and document all incidents so that anyone interested can see the reality of the threats and intimidation that paddlers are subjected to in particular situations and the relative harmony experienced elsewhere.

    This is where YOU come in. Please enter an access rating for the rivers you paddle. Please document all incidents where your rights to responsible access are challenged in an inappropriate way with threats of (or actual) violence, vandalism or intimidation.
    Keith

  6. #246
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    Keith

    This is a tremendous piece of work, you and the contributors [along with your son] should be applauded.

    Tim

  7. #247
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    Yes, it's really coming on well. Well done.
    --
    Andy

  8. #248

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    Excellent work Keith! I'll get on with adding reports to the rivers I know well.

  9. #249
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    Absolutely amazing. Stellar work, Keith!

  10. #250
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    http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/f...hp?f=3&t=80073

    Oh well I tried to get them to help. Usual stuff, moan that nothing is done with a map then moan when it is...

    We'll get on with it.
    Last edited by Quicky; 22nd-July-2011 at 08:10 PM.

  11. #251
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    I can't understand a lot on that forum to be honest. Old sayings to do with forests and trees spring to mind.

  12. #252
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    Some of the comments entered so far...
    Between Chippenham and Staverton including Semington Brook,there is a great understanding between land owners and all other river users.
    Canoe Clubs avoid using the river during fishing matches and fishing clubs are aware when canoe events take place. Including joint river clean ups,litter picking & the removal of tree branches from within the river. Any problems from either side are fed back to the Club Commitees & have been dealt with to ensure the continued co operation at all levels. In short it all works well.
    Used to be an access agreement for some sections during the winter months. Unclear if this still exists, but river is now regularly paddled year-round when water permits with no hassle.
    Thanks for the reports, guys. One day it will be like this everywhere.
    Keith

  13. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW
    I can't understand a lot on that forum to be honest. Old sayings to do with forests and trees spring to mind.
    I think it's a combination of people being jaded with trying to get the government and/or various agencies to do something about the access situation and also being quite happy with the status quo. From an individual recreational paddler's perspective the access situation as it stands is actually the best it's ever been. Having entered a load of the comments about various rivers into the map, it's struck me that apart from a few rogue fishing clubs, the main access issues occur when we as paddlers annoy the landowners by using inappropriate access points across private land or by parking inconsiderately. I think that people may be worried that any legal change would only be detrimental to the current situation of de facto open access. Of course the main problem at the moment occurs with large club paddles or youth groups, where an unclear access situation is unacceptable from a legal/child protection standpoint.

    Personally, I just like contributing to anything that's a bit geeky and related to kayaking! Maybe this map will also reassure some of the doubters amongst the paddling community who are still afraid to get on a river with no formal access arrangement.

  14. #254
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    I've changed the colours used on the map. What was red is now purple. Red was causing confusion as some were interpreting it as indicating a "no go" area.

    Do the new colours work. Is there now less confusion (hopefully none)?
    Keith

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    I've changed the colours used on the map. What was red is now purple. Red was causing confusion as some were interpreting it as indicating a "no go" area.

    Do the new colours work. Is there now less confusion (hopefully none)?
    Personnally I prefered the red-green combination but I suppose it still tells the same story, just one point though.

    On the access map page there is no key that I can see, would it be worth having something at the top which identifies what each colour represents. I'm thinking about printing this out and attaching it with a letter but when I do this there is nothing to say what the colours mean.
    Bootstrap
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  16. #256
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    I was also going to mention the need for a key. I think the red colour was better. I know there was some discussion about whether it looked like it made rivers look like no go areas, but I think that to get the point across to the public that is exactly how it needs to appear. Otherwise it is a bit wishywashy and they'll wonder what all the fuss is about. It presents a confused argument along the lines of "We don't have access to 98% of our rivers, but don't worry it is okay to go on them anyway."

  17. #257

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    I think Red is best... plus a key to say what the colours mean. This map is probably the most significant piece of evidence produced in the last twenty years. It's effectiveness should not be reduced by any ambiguity.

    Keith have you heard anything from the BCU? Have they supplied a list of the VAA's they have negotiated? That would make very interesting reading.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  18. #258
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    Purple haze, purple rain, purple river's,

    Do you remember a few years back, when there was flooding in Europe, and all the factory's down the Rhine emptied their stored up toxic waist into the river, that
    turned that grand waterway a rainbow of colours, but it was purple by the time it reached the Low country's.

    Personally, I like the 'new look' purple disputed river map, my issue is that there is not allot more Green.

    Well done Keith, your good work sets out our problem as clearly as possible, it will be a good weapon in trying to get better access to our waterways.

    The rivers on the list were purple, if you clicked on them prior to looking at the map, what colour have you chosen to replace it ?

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
    ... my issue is that there is not allot more Green.
    The key point we can all agree on. In the big picture the map colours are fine tuning. The key issue for now is to get more data entered via the "add new access rating" links from a wider (and widening) number of contributors. If everyone that reads this does just one today then we will really start to make a difference and build a useful source of data.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bob View Post
    On the access map page there is no key that I can see, would it be worth having something at the top which identifies what each colour represents. I'm thinking about printing this out and attaching it with a letter but when I do this there is nothing to say what the colours mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99
    ..... plus a key to say what the colours mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW
    I was also going to mention the need for a key.
    Key added this morning. If you don't see it on any of the maps click on the refresh button.
    Keith

  21. #261

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    In my not humble opinion, the impact of the map is greatly reduced and diluted by the use of purple (the 'royal colour') and the description 'Disputed Rights'.

    I would prefer Red and 'No Accepted Right of Access'. If you asked Mr Benyon he would say you can't paddle on the purple rivers without negotiated agreement with the land owners. There is no 'dispute' in his mind.

    Of course I can't thank Keith and all the contributors enough for what we have done... such a pity to not follow through with a direct statement of the issue...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  22. #262
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    I'm continuing to find new rivers to add and information on historic use of rivers such as that researched by Douglas Caffyn.

    This afternoon I've added Waller's Haven near Hastings. Does anyone have any first hand experience of this river which would be tidal except for the sluice gates at the coast?


    Photo from Geograph under Creative Commons Licence.
    Keith

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    I'm continuing to find new rivers to add and information on historic use of rivers such as that researched by Douglas Caffyn.
    ...and you're doing a fantastic job. This is a really positive contribution to the wider access campaign.

    I was away and internet-less for most of August, but on return noticed that there didn't seem to be that many new rivers added. Are they all done (of course not) or have we all got complacent (or have all the easy, unobscured tree-less rivers been done - I have to admit that this factor slowed my input).

    It would be interesting if you could add a 'date created' tag to the rivers list, and even better if you could then sort by date, but, failing this, maybe you'd be kind enough to add a post (as above) called "River X now added to access map" every time someone maps a new waterway (adopting my best Del Boy accent) "pour encourager les autres"

    Cheers

    John

  24. #264
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    Yeah, Keith you're doing a fantastic job.

    I must admit to feeling guilty that my input has faded to nothing recently. Life got busy again after a very quiet spell, but I suspect there's truth that as the obvious rivers are done its a bit harder to find others & takes a lot of time. Last time I looked (think it was Notts area) I was struggling to add anything, but I KNOW we've not got near to finishing the job. It now needs a more thorough research approach, not just running down a wiki list & ticking them off. I'll try again as soon as I have a few minutes.

    The other thing that we need folk to do is to add reports to their local rivers. I've added the rivers I paddle, but obviously can't add reports on the many, many rivers I've never visited. Please, if you've paddled a river, even if nothing happened, add a report.

    Cheers

    Mal
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  25. #265
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    One thing I have noticed that needs adding are a couple of links when you visit a specific river page. A link to take you back to the index and a link to take you back to the list of rivers. Although if you start from the homepage the river or map opens in a new tab/window, if I send a link to someone that takes them directly to a specific river they have no way of being able to go to the homepage.

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    One thing I have noticed that needs adding are a couple of links when you visit a specific river page. A link to take you back to the index
    If you mean the homepage then clicking on the "Action for Access" logo at the top right will take you to the homepage.
    and a link to take you back to the list of rivers.
    I use the Back button
    Although if you start from the homepage the river or map opens in a new tab/window, if I send a link to someone that takes them directly to a specific river they have no way of being able to go to the homepage.
    clicking on the "Action for Access" logo at the top right will take you to the homepage.

    Does this deal with the issues?
    Keith

  27. #267
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    It does, but it isn't clear. I'm a computer savvy user and didn't realise that the logo took me back to the homepage until you told me. A simple text link as well would be much clearer. I think it is important because if I send a link to a specific river it might not be clear to the person I am sending it to that there is an entire map full of other rivers and a campaign/access page.

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    A simple text link as well would be much clearer.
    Fair point! I'll add it to the "to do" list.
    Keith

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    Fair point! I'll add it to the "to do" list.
    Now done!
    Keith

  30. #270
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    Well I've written to David Tredinnick MP for Hinckley and Bosworth, Ive mentioned the unclear or disputed access on all local rivers and used the Rover Dove as a perfect example of the unfair nature of "access agreements" with one weekend availability per year.


    Im fairly sure I know where he stands on this, but await his response ready to post up :-)

  31. #271
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    Default New "Links" page on the Access Map

    I have now created a links page on the Access Map.. It's designed to be update-able and if you find some information relevant to access to our rivers you can suggest adding it via this input form.

    What we need now is even more input on the harassment (or lack of it) that you experience while paddling. It's as important to be able to demonstrate where we can paddle in harmony with other river users and riparian landowners as it is to establish the nature and location of any incidents of harassment, vandalism etc. You can find links to input forms to do this by clicking on the river in question.

    I hope the new links page is useful to those looking for access information.
    Keith

  32. #272
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    On the Saturday the 14th of this month [January], I attended a regional access meeting at the Burrs Centre,outside Bury

    in Lancashire. The meeting was organised and attended, in the main, by people with a connection to Canoe England.

    Part of the morning was taken up with a focus on maps of the water ways of the UK.

    One of the group had a LARGE map, [4 ft X 4 ft]with the waterways marked on it. North England/Scotland on one side,

    the rest of England and Wales on the other side, he is hoping to sell it, looks good to me !

    Another issue that arose was a proposal for volunteers to help in providing information for an on-line access map,

    in a lull in the conversation, I pointed out that this already existed, on this forum,this was met with surprise.

    It is, as one of the other attendees said an example of information being available,but not accessed,for whatever reason.

  33. #273
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    I have been trying to look at the access map for ages, but I could never get it to display, it was just a blank area. Then I had a thought, I wonder what would happen if I tried another web explorer. Until now I have used Microsoft Internel Explorer, I tried Mozilla firefox and I can now see the mapping ok.

    Yes it is a useful web page.

  34. #274
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    Adrian the link you put on is very interesting lots of info thanks


    mick

  35. #275

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    I've been steering clear of forums for the last couple of years. The whole debate was getting rather too stressful for me. But after a break, I've re-energised myself, and just clicked onto the Rivers Access Campaign website and caught sight of the map. I think it's brilliant. Good work everyone. You have correctly interpreted the status of the rivers access on the Wensum, Yare, Waveney and Blythe. I can personally testify to each of the incidents reported on the Wensum.

    The Blythe is a curious one though. Caffyn suggests that statutory navigation rights exist all the way inland to Halesworth. This would certainly make sense by virtue of the fact that it's basically a man-made canal which facilitated the creation of Halesworth as a port. But it's very overgrown in its non-tidal reaches and is rarely tackled by either canoeists or anglers. It's a shame because for a relatively small effort it could be made into valuable resource for both, but hey-ho. My reason for making the point is that as soon as I posted a youtube video about paddling down the Blyth with some mates I was subjected to torrents abuse from so-called 'anglers', even though there are are are virtually no angling interests on the river. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRpc...1OW6uo&index=6. Makes me wonder whether this this form of internet abuse shouldn't be reported in the same way as say, being verbally abused on the riverbank.
    Last edited by sobranie; 12th-February-2017 at 10:01 PM.

  36. #276
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    It looks like most of the abuse was from one person. It's a shame but the best course is to treat all other river users with politeness and consideration and avoid such protracted negative exchanges. There can be no doubt that the Act of Parliament of 1757 created a statutory public right of navigation. The abandonment of the navigation in 1934 will have absolved the proprietors of the responsibility for maintaining navigation but I'd be very surprised if there was a specific clause to end the PRN.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by sobranie View Post
    I was subjected to torrents abuse from so-called 'anglers', even though there are are are virtually no angling interests on the river. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRpc...1OW6uo&index=6. Makes me wonder whether this this form of internet abuse shouldn't be reported in the same way as say, being verbally abused on the riverbank.
    These comments are 3 years old, why stir them up again now?
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  38. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudman View Post
    These comments are 3 years old, why stir them up again now?
    The comments originated while the map was was being compiled, but the access map itself is still relevant, and is still prominently displayed on Rivers Access Campaign website. As far as I'm aware, the dispute over canoe access hasn't moved forward one jot in the last 3 years. The map contains details of complaints reported to the BCU by me, and it therefore stands to reason that any of these incidents could flare up again at any moment. If you don't want people 'stiring things up' then you need to ask one of the mods to close the thread and remove the access map from public display. I don't want them to do that. I was comprehensively ignored at the time by the Environment Agency, the police, and my MP. This map, along with Caffyn's research, therefore constitute the only serious initiative to address my original concerns.

  39. #279
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    The UK Map doesn't seem to include Northern Ireland?

    Now I wish to God I'd joined those men when they were set ashore, but I chose a wild and a reckless life serving under Captain Moore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    The UK Map doesn't seem to include Northern Ireland?
    Ireland doesn't have a history of conflict between river users.
    Keith

  41. #281
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    Could put green rivers in then maybe, in the same way as shown for Scotland.

    What is the access situation there, out of interest?

    In Northern Ireland and in the Republic (presumably different legal situation in each?)

    Is it defined by laws?

    Does anybody know?

    Thanks.

    Now I wish to God I'd joined those men when they were set ashore, but I chose a wild and a reckless life serving under Captain Moore.

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  42. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crow View Post
    The UK Map doesn't seem to include Northern Ireland?
    That would seem to be a pretty sound reason for keeping the topic live, by giving the pot a stir from time to time

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