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Thread: Access map

  1. #1
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    Default Access map

    Updated at 27/10/2011 - The map has developed since the start in May. There are now the following key pages:-

    Homepage
    UK map
    List of all rivers from which you can get a local map by clicking on the target river
    Links page
    Input a new river

    There are other pages but they can be accessed from the key pages.
    There was a positive reaction to a number of suggestions that we create a map showing the limited extent of (generally accepted) access to our river network but no one has yet suggested how to do it.

    I don't know but to further the project I asked my technically literate son to create something cheap and cheerful to allow us to get this project underway. He's currently at university preparing for his final exams over the next month so I asked him to keep it basic and functional and not to spend much time on it until his exams are out of the way. He will be able to tidy up the software and add extra features in the future but for now this is what we have.

    An Output page with three levels of resolution. It defaults to low resolution but if you are going to zoom right in you will need to change it to high resolution first.

    An Input page.

    A list of all rivers already submitted

    Anyone can use the input page but unless you know the password your input will not show on the output page until it has been authorised. If you want to try to use it you are welcome. If you just want to use a fictional route to see how it works please use the river name "testing" (not "Test" to avoid confusion with the river of that name). I'll delete all "testing" routes at least daily.

    If you want to sign up to take responsibility for a river or region just PM me. There will be many questions that we will have to find answers to as we progress but if we start with the minimum of rules that's probably best. I suggest the following for now.
    • Don't enter tidal sections of any rivers.
    • Make separate entries for sections of rivers with (will be displayed in green)and without (will be displayed in red) access. Although not catered for yet add sections subject to access agreements as separate sections and enter them as disputed access for now (I'll edit them later)
    • Work from upstream to downstream. This will allow us to add and merge further upstream sections later if we need to.
    • It's best (but far from essential) if we input rivers that are known to us
    • If you want to make suggestions of features that can be added later feel free.
    • I suggest we use UK Rivers Guidebook as a starting point for identifying which rivers to add.
    • Since the objective is to show the extent of our river system that is denied to us adding details of the canal system is a low priority at this stage.
    If anyone has a better or more effective way of doing any of this please let me know quickly so that I don't waste any more time.
    Last edited by KeithD; 26th-October-2011 at 11:51 PM. Reason: updating
    Keith

  2. #2
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    Nice work. Will you/your son open source the code so others can see how it's done and contribute improvements/changes? I can recommend GitHub for this sort of project.

  3. #3
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    Yes I am sure he will. I don't want to ask any more of him until his exams are over but once they are we will look to implement improvements and extra features and welcome any suggestions for improvement or help in doing it. I know all we have now is a mechanism for collection the data of basic river routes but since I think this is where the biggest workload is I thought the sooner we started the better.
    Keith

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    Nice work,
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  5. #5

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    Hi

    I was contacted through my ebay account with this request;

    "Full Name: s........ c..........
    Country: United Kingdom
    Primary Telephone: 07....................
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Hi eddie- sorry to track you down this way!
    I saw your comments about access and would be interested in speaking some time because I'm going to write afeature for the Outdoor Swimming Society on 'spurious' no swimming signs.
    My email is s....................@fsmail.net. Would be great to talk if you've got time.
    Nice van by the way! "



    Their map is here http://www.outdoorswimmingsociety.co...p=swimming_map

    I have offered her the choice of posting on here and have given her the links to the access pages.

    I have got all her details and have asked if I can fwd them to here but as I have had no reply I won't until I do.

    Cheers for now

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  6. #6
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    I'd looked at their map but it shows locations rather than the routes of rivers and therefore was very different to what we needed.
    Keith

  7. #7
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    this looks quite straight forward. I've had a go. As a suggestion, I've included in the notes what license is needed for the two rivers (or bits of) that I've done. Will the notes show on the maps?
    Sam

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    Quote Originally Posted by samB View Post
    Will the notes show on the maps?
    Yes I intend the notes to show in a pop-up with links to relevent sites/ access agreements etc. We'll get the chance to edit/create/expand all that later.
    Keith

  9. #9
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    Whoever posted "Testing 2$$" it uploaded ok and I have authorised it to display (temporarily). I don't know where on the map its located so I can't see if it has displayed ok. Let me know if there is a problem.
    Keith

  10. #10

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    This is great, Keith...

    I can't work out how to use it... can you explain how to use the input page? I want to do the River Mole in surrey. I drew a line along the middle of the river... is that rigfht? I sent you something
    Last edited by dougdew99; 22nd-May-2011 at 09:38 PM.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    couldnt get it to work

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne View Post
    couldnt get it to work
    On the input page follow this procedure:
    • Select a nearby town and hit "Go"
    • Click and drag the map until you can see the start point (I find it best to switch to satellite view to get fine detail)
    • Zoom in until you are comfortable with the scale
    • Click on "start recording"
    • Click on a series of points along the course of the river.
    • If you make a mistake click on undo last click to delete the last point
    • When the route is complete enter the rivers name, your email, (don't worry about the password, I'll activate the input manually)
    • Enter any relevant notes
    • Scroll down and click on "Submit route"
    Keith

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    I've added the river Isla. There is access to all rivers in Scotland but not everyone knows the access points or the dates of fishing seasons. Seems very easy software to use, well done.

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    Default navigation/access map

    Looks good. Easy to use, except I miss read the instruction first time.

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    I misread them as well and didn't do it right, but now the map has disappeared so I cannot have another go.
    "Oh, Eeyore, you are wet!" said Piglet, feeling him.Eeyore shook himself, and asked somebody to explain to Piglet what happened when you had been inside a river for quite a long time.

  16. #16

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    Keith
    Once again thanks for this... this will be a very powerful tool for telling the access story.

    Thanks also to your son. When he has a bit of time, you might ask him to include the instructions on the input page...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  17. #17
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    If you are only able to complete part of a river (e.g the Mole from Sidlow to Brockham) you can complete the next section separately (making sure you start very close to where the previous map ended) and let me know that the two sections need joining together and I can do this manually. Alternatively the two separate sections will appear as one continuous line on the map anyhow.

    To speed up the time taken for your map to display, if you enter "access" as the password this will bypass the manual authorisation and allow your input to show straight away.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-May-2011 at 04:44 PM.
    Keith

  18. #18
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    Default Volunteers needed!

    Here's what we have achieved in 36 hours!



    http://www.canoedaysout.com/cgi-bin/grand_output.py

    What we need now are a few more volunteers to input their local river and we can fairly quickly achieve a meaningful result.

    Go here to create your input.
    Keith

  19. #19
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    Can I do Scotland This is a great idea Keith, just takes a little participation and it'd be even better!!
    Cheers,

    Alan


  20. #20

    Default River Mole Horley to Sidlow

    Keith
    I did this section too... did you get this?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  21. #21

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    Keith
    I wonder if people are tending to enter the Rivers where there is access. I guess you are more interested in Rivers where there is no access, ie. 96% of English rivers. When complete the map will be sea of red with the odd green exception....

    This is such a good idea!
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  22. #22
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    Keith
    I seem to be able to input ( I've gone through the motions and you show the cam/great ouse that i did on your 'what we have achieved' map) but if i try to check on http://www.canoedaysout.com/cgi-bin/grand_output.py ,I can't see them. Is this right or am I doing something daft?
    Sam

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    Quote Originally Posted by samB View Post
    ...... if i try to check on http://www.canoedaysout.com/cgi-bin/grand_output.py ,I can't see them.
    They are showing on my browser. Try refreshing the page.

    Thanks for your help with the project.
    Keith

  24. #24

    Default Great work Keith (& son)

    Guess I'm just surprised its never been done before. Living in N Ireland, we do have it a bit easier here for access.
    You might want to have a look at this site, http://www.canoeni.com/canoe-trails/
    May be useful for ideas, maybe not.

    Cheers,
    Eunan

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Keith
    I did this section too... did you get this?
    Yes Doug. I think it was my fault for not keeping up to date with "authorising" the input. Shouldn't be a problem any more if you use the "access" password.
    Keith

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    Can I do Scotland
    The original idea was to confine it to England and Wales where it's an issue. But since you are volunteering it might be more effective if, by way of contrast, we have Scotland as a sea of green and England and Wales as a sea of red.

    Not much benefit in terms of access though for all the Scottish input!
    Keith

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Keith
    I wonder if people are tending to enter the Rivers where there is access. I guess you are more interested in Rivers where there is no access, ie. 96% of English rivers.
    I guess most people are most familiar with where they can paddle
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    When complete the map will be sea of red with the odd green exception....
    I may have to reduce the thickness of the red lines so that you can still see the map underneath!
    Keith

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    Just curious (havn't had a play yet) Do we add the colours? And which colour for not legally allowed to paddle but no access problems?

    I'll have a bash at the local rivers tomorrow. Do you want all rivers, or only ones that you can get a canoe down?

    Joe
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe.ford View Post
    Do we add the colours?
    No. You tick the box "Is the right to paddle disputed?" Yes or No. The objective is to show that there is disputed access on 96% of rivers so unless we have an undisputed right to navigation (i.e a statutory navigation which no-one disputes) the answer is yes - even if in practice you have never been challenged! In time, I'll add a third colour (amber) for those parts of rivers that are subject to an access agreement (I'm hoping to get details from Canoe England). If you know that a part of a river is covered by such an agreement make a seperate input for it and mark it disputed for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by joe.ford View Post
    Do you want all rivers, or only ones that you can get a canoe down?
    In practical terms if you can get a canoe down it in relevant conditions I'd say it's a navigable river and should be included. If it's not physically capable of taking a canoe lets call it a stream and ignore it.
    Last edited by KeithD; 23rd-May-2011 at 09:11 PM.
    Keith

  30. #30
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    Ah, didn't read the later "access" password bit. Sorry Keith, you should now have a few bits to authorise when you get a mo!

    Wey Navigation - access.
    River Wey - natural sections of river (2 sections). No access
    North Wey - no access
    South Wey - no access
    Wey & Arun top section - no access
    River Thame - no access.

    Cheers

    M
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    Ah, didn't read the later "access" password bit.
    Well done Mal. All authorised and showing.
    Keith

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    Mal Gray will do the remaining sections of the River Wey and the Thame from Thame down to the Thames. Thanks Mal!
    Keith

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    I think this is a great idea, and hope it really gets used to its full potential.

    As far as having a measure of which rivers to include, we use the river width and depth as a rule of thumb in our quest to paddle all the rivers in Northern Ireland.

    If we can turn a 16ft canoe in it, and float it with a day's kit in it, its a "Paddleable" river.
    The depth is always dictated by how much rain there has been prior to paddling (or poling), but the width is fairly easy to use as a method to judge by.

    Hope this helps.
    Big Al.

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    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
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    The River Blackwater has been added (The one in Essex, between Bocking and Langford)

    Why is the line Purple?
    SF Peterborough 14'
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe.ford View Post
    Why is the line Purple?
    It's only purple when viewed immediately after inputting it - so you can see instantly that it has been added. If you view the overall map again it will be the normal colour.
    Keith

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    River Brett (Suffolk) Added, Semer to Stratford St Mary (Almost)



    Edit.............................

    River Stort Added, typed in wrong password. Oooops, Sorry Keith
    Last edited by joe.ford; 24th-May-2011 at 07:27 PM. Reason: adding county and river
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  37. #37
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    Default Please don't add tidal sections

    ..... if we start with the minimum of rules that's probably best. I suggest the following for now.
    • Don't enter tidal sections of any rivers.
    Please remember NOT to add tidal sections. It will only give the map a green margin and the objective is to show the extent of access to non tidal rivers
    Keith

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    Oh dear, I must have been bad. My river has turned Yellow

    Now remember everyone.

    Before you press the submit button, do make sure the correct box is selected.

    Don't do it like me. And turn a navigable river RED Got a little carried away there oops
    Last edited by joe.ford; 24th-May-2011 at 07:47 PM.
    SF Peterborough 14'
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe.ford View Post
    Oh dear, I must have been bad. My river has turned Yellow
    That'll have been me. I got Robert (my son) to give me a way of marking Access Agreements. The River Blackwater has an agreement for one party, of up to 50 people, on one day each year. Not worth the paper it is written on but at least it gives you something to start your Kelly Kettle with!!
    Keith

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    Can't see any lines on the map at all. Input some green and red lines, the first of which needed Keith's authorisation, the latter I used the password, but can't see anything but the map (or the satellite view).

    Also had the tedious problem with the google map displaying the message 'we don't have images at this level' each time map was scrolled (even though I know it does). Had to zoom in &/or out every time I wanted to move for the next series of clicks, which was very dull panning over 11 miles of waterway.

    Help?!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Can't see any lines on the map at all. Input some green and red lines, the first of which needed Keith's authorisation, the latter I used the password, but can't see anything but the map (or the satellite view).
    Are you looking at the input map? This shows nothing but your input. To see the result you need to look at the output map

    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Also had the tedious problem with the google map displaying the message 'we don't have images at this level' each time map was scrolled (even though I know it does). Had to zoom in &/or out every time I wanted to move for the next series of clicks, which was very dull panning over 11 miles of waterway
    Sorry but that sounds like a Google map problem - hopefully very temporary!
    Thanks for all your good work despite the frustrations.
    Keith

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    Clicked "Output map", still nowt. Running on Windows 7, newish laptop... is it just me? I'm quite good at 'discovering' system errors that no-one else has ever experienced

  43. #43
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    Default correcting errors

    This site will need an error correction system aka wiki.
    whoever submitted the Severn has made a mistake and followed the Vyrnwy from Crewgreen upstream.
    the Severn is only undisputed downstream from Pool quay near Welshpool

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nantcoly View Post
    This site will need an error correction system aka wiki.
    Is it OK now?
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Clicked "Output map", still nowt. Running on Windows 7, newish laptop... is it just me? I'm quite good at 'discovering' system errors that no-one else has ever experienced
    Which browser are you using? - Try Firefox or Google Chrome.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Saunders View Post
    Can't see any lines on the map at all.
    There seems to be a problem for users of Internet Explorer. Please be patient - I'll ask Robert to look at it when he has time.

    In the meantime it works OK with Firefox and Chrome.
    Keith

  47. #47

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    Hi Keith,

    This seems like an excellent idea and I'll happily contribute as much stuff as I can over the next few weeks from my knowledge of editing the UKRGB guides for Northern England (no problems viewing or editing for me so far!).

    However, I'm keen to know what the distinction between disputed and undisputed access actually is? At the moment I see you have the Usk down as undisputed. But, this has an access "agreement" on it imposed by the Wye and Usk foundation and not endorsed by CW. It has restricted dates and a spate level higher than most would want.

    I would suggest the only rivers which can be put down as undisputed would be the following:

    1. Rivers up to their tidal limits.
    2. Rivers with ancient rights of navigation (eg Wye up to Hay-on-Wye)
    3. Rivers covered by a BW license
    4. Rivers with access arangements conforming to the 365-day ideal. At the moment these are the Lakes Greta and Derwent, the Waveney, the Mersey and the Mole (Surrey).

    There are non-CE/CW endorsed agreements on a number of rivers such as the Dart, Lyn, Axe and Wye and Usk. There are also agreements where CE seem to endorse them despite not meeting their own standard. These include the Tyne system, parts of the Ure, the Eden (maybe), parts of the Lune, possibly the Upper Tees and various other Northern rivers where you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask.

    I'd suggest only using green (undisputed) for points 1-4 above, orange (an access agreement exists) for the others I've listed (and similar situations) but with as much info on the restrictions as possible and then red (disputed) for everything else.

    Anyway, excellent work and I'll crack on with getting some data fed in...

    Jim.
    Last edited by Jim Pullen; 25th-May-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  48. #48
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    I should have time to do a bit more today - Test & Itchen would seem to be useful ones to do, though I do not know these rivers very well & how far up they are practically navigable (I shall use a common sense approach with OS maps), they are most definitely disputed.

    Edit: I see someone has done the Itchen Navigation already. I'll just to the Test.
    Last edited by Mal Grey; 25th-May-2011 at 10:45 AM.
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  49. #49
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    Default Hmm..

    I'm thinking we may have an issue here by asking people to ideally input rivers known to them. I think this will soon mean that there are more greens than reds. Whilst I will paddle rivers without known access permission & can add these, the fact is there are probably many more rivers I barely even know about which might well be paddleable but nobody ever does, so if I were to add all my current paddling spots, they'd be 70% green.

    Certainly if we added canals & Navigations to the map, we would look very much as if there were loads of waterways with access, but without these added our case is easy to knock back.

    If we're to get all these disputed rivers on the map, its going to take a bit more research I guess. A lot can be done online, but if our intention is to highlight rivers that are physically navigable for canoes/kayaks (as opposed to too shallow/narrow etc), you can't always tell from maps/google earth.

    What we need is local knowledge of rivers which could be paddled to be shared. In my part of the world there are actually not many waterways full stop, & we'll soon have them covered off, but in other areas there are many more with at the very least unknown access that probably only a very few local folk paddle on. Its these guys we need to find, so please, if you have any time to put on the slightly more obscure waterways, do so. Its really easy.

    Maybe we need to break this down by county?
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

    Paddle Points - where to paddle

  50. #50

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    I've received a pm from Doug about the Mole, but unfortunately I can't reply due to having less than 3 posts. Here's what I tried to reply with:

    Hi Doug,

    Assuming I haven't got my wires crossed, then yes this was the Surrey Mole. Canoe England claim to have negotiated a 365-day agreement for it dating from 2006. It's listed on their site as being one of the few with a 365-day arrangement in their policy statement released last year. Having said this finding any more information about this on the CE/BCU site seems to be impossible (the other 365-day rivers seem to have pdfs up). Google seems to reveal an access officer/river adviser/whatever they're calling themselves now suggesting in posts on various forums from 2007 onwards that dates are restricted to the fishing closed season.

    Do you know any more? Is it possible that CEs information might be inaccurate? ;-)

    Cheers,
    Jim
    One more post and I'll be able to reply to pms!

    Mal: I have information on approximately 180 river sections in Northern England. Of these two will be green, about a dozen orange and the rest red. For Wales all 310 river sections described in Sladden's "welsh rivers" should be red apart from bits of the Wye and Severn (green) and other bits of the Wye and Usk (orange).

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    I'm thinking we may have an issue here by asking people to ideally input rivers known to them. I think this will soon mean that there are more greens than reds. Whilst I will paddle rivers without known access permission & can add these, the fact is there are probably many more rivers I barely even know about which might well be paddleable but nobody ever does, so if I were to add all my current paddling spots, they'd be 70% green.

    Certainly if we added canals & Navigations to the map, we would look very much as if there were loads of waterways with access, but without these added our case is easy to knock back.

    If we're to get all these disputed rivers on the map, its going to take a bit more research I guess. A lot can be done online, but if our intention is to highlight rivers that are physically navigable for canoes/kayaks (as opposed to too shallow/narrow etc), you can't always tell from maps/google earth.

    What we need is local knowledge of rivers which could be paddled to be shared. In my part of the world there are actually not many waterways full stop, & we'll soon have them covered off, but in other areas there are many more with at the very least unknown access that probably only a very few local folk paddle on. Its these guys we need to find, so please, if you have any time to put on the slightly more obscure waterways, do so. Its really easy.

    Maybe we need to break this down by county?
    This is probably something the regional CE access officers can help us with...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  52. #52

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    I'll follow up the River Mole with the local CE access officer
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Pullen View Post
    I
    Mal: I have information on approximately 180 river sections in Northern England. Of these two will be green, about a dozen orange and the rest red. For Wales all 310 river sections described in Sladden's "welsh rivers" should be red apart from bits of the Wye and Severn (green) and other bits of the Wye and Usk (orange).
    Excellent, exactly what we need. If I have a starter for ten on what the rivers are (say name, access status, sensible upstream limit location, downstream limit), I am happy to spend a bit of time each day tracing rivers. 180 would take ages on your own!
    Last edited by Mal Grey; 25th-May-2011 at 12:24 PM. Reason: splelnig
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

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  54. #54
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    We definately need to distinguis between thoise rivers with no or disputed acces (red) and those wehere it is not known.

    IF we follow the Brighton access report three should only be 4 main rives(and a few others) in green (well somebits of them) they entire rest should be red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Grey View Post
    I'm thinking we may have an issue here by asking people to ideally input rivers known to them. I think this will soon mean that there are more greens than reds.
    I keep having a look at the map and it does appear to be 50:50 at the moment.
    Perhaps we should make all the rivers red and then change the colour to green for those bits that are proven undisputed? Just a thought
    Bootstrap
    There's no such thing as inclement weather - you're just incorrectly dressed

  56. #56

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    If anyone has info about rivers but not time to trace them on the map, send me your info...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  57. #57

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    Well that's the entire Tees system added! I've put in all the becks which I know have been paddled, but left out the Tees above Cow Green and the Maize Beck which comes in below. Both of these would be theoretically possible in spate, but would require a ten mile walk in!

    Mal - look through the guides in the north east and north west sections of UKRGB. I'm responsible for editing these and I think most of the access info is up to date so feel free to add them. The only undisputed ones should be the Lakes Greta and Derwent, details of the 365-day access arrangement are here: http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/pdf/Canoe_Access_Agreement_Greta_Mid_Derwent.pdf

    Less ideal old-style access agreements would be for most of the Tyne system (see here but not clear exactly what becks are covered), the Ure (Black Robin Beck to Slenningford), the Crake, the Eden (Lazonby to Armathwaite), the Lune (Rigmaden Bridge & Kirkby Lonsdale), the lower Derwent (Bassenthwaite Lake to tidal limit).

    Hope this is useful!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Pullen View Post
    I would suggest the only rivers which can be put down as undisputed would be the following:

    1. Rivers up to their tidal limits.
    2. Rivers with ancient rights of navigation (eg Wye up to Hay-on-Wye)
    3. Rivers covered by a BW license
    4. Rivers with access arangements conforming to the 365-day ideal. At the moment these are the Lakes Greta and Derwent, the Waveney, the Mersey and the Mole (Surrey).
    Thanks for your support Jim. I'd only include 2 & 3 (plus navigations like the basingstoke canal and the River Wey operating under their own licencing arrangements) as undisputed. I don't want to include tidal rivers as this will just give the map a green margin without adding any meaningful information.

    I am able to edit "disputed access" to reflect access agreements and show the rivers as amber. The idea of access agreements that haven't been agreed makes my brain hurt but if you can add noes to explain where this occurs and what the limitations are, I will deal with it. Access agreement that meet the 365 days criteria are still access agreements (since they can be rescinded on a whim). If you input these as "disputed" but send me a note to explain there is an agreement, I'll change the colour to amber.

    Can you tell me more about the mole agreement? The Mole has been submitted as "disputed" with no mention of a 365 day agreement.

    Thanks for your help.
    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Pullen View Post

    Mal - look through the guides in the north east and north west sections of UKRGB. I'm responsible for editing these and I think most of the access info is up to date so feel free to add them. The only undisputed ones should be the Lakes Greta and Derwent, details of the 365-day access arrangement are here: http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/pdf/Canoe_Access_Agreement_Greta_Mid_Derwent.pdf


    [/FONT]
    Doesn't the Eden have some sort of half-assed agreement too? Mentioned on UKRGB, and sounds like its just not acceptable, so in my head would count as disputed? What do you reckon?

    From UKRGB: "The access is awful. You get on and don't stop paddling. Playing is forbidden by the agreement. Breaking out is seen as 'playing' and frowned upon, as is stopping and having a break for lunch (even though the place where you stop is popular with walkers etc). The fishermen on the whole aren't very happy either; that is not to say that they all are (some were pleasant the last time I paddled it) but others weren't. One in particular challenged our right to be on the river and threatened to report us to the landowners because while some people were getting on after lunch (it's a long trip) others warmed up, 200m upstream of the fisherman. Access has to be obtained in advance from Carlisle Canoes for a specific date and a specific number of people"
    Covering as many malmiles as possible before being distracted by the pub!

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  60. #60
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    Message too long 157,000 characters, please shorted to 30,000 characters!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_England

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