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Thread: Home Built Boat Rally at Barton Turf

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    Default Home Built Boat Rally at Barton Turf

    HBBR, the Home Built Boat Rally, is an interesting phenomena... but it works!

    Formed in 2006 by Alec Jordan, UK-HBBR is a loose collection of like-minded individuals with a common interest in building boats at home. The aim is to organise several meetings around the country where home boat builders can get together to have a chat, see each others boats, sail in other boats, and talk about the trials, tribulations and rewards of building your own boat.

    If you’ve built a boat, are planning to, or just want to come along to see what its all about, we’d love to see you.

    There is no membership fee, formal organisation, or red tape. If you have read this far consider yourself a member.
    Reading that last year, I asked about taking my sailing canoe along to the annual Barton Turf gathering at Whitsun.... and went on to have a great few days enjoying great company from what is arguably the best base on the Broads.



    For a feel of the event see our SongofthePaddle Blog from last year's event... and also the HBBR galleries:
    This year's event is coming up soon (over the usual Whitsun weekend: 28 -30 May). We're not going to make it as we should be on our way to Kringelfieber, but it would be great to hear that a few canoe sailing folk from here on SoTP will be making the trip.

    The HBBR forum thread is is the place for queries: see here.

    Ps. this is the same venue as will be used for the OCSG meet at the end of July.
    Last edited by GregandGinaS; 15th-May-2011 at 09:23 AM.

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    HBBR isn't restricted to sailing canoes:



    ...but amid the other vessels you'lll see sailing canoes:







    The only home built bits on our Jensen were the gunwales: didn't matter....



    A highly recommended weekend
    Last edited by GregandGinaS; 15th-May-2011 at 09:21 AM.

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    I would love to go but unfortunately it is the same time as our expedition on the Scottish west coast

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    I'll be visiting the Broads the week after (for a week pottering about on my Dad's boat). A shame as it looks like a really good event. We originally planned to be there for that weekend but decided it'd be too busy so made alternative plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
    I'll be visiting the Broads the week after (for a week pottering about on my Dad's boat). A shame as it looks like a really good event. We originally planned to be there for that weekend but decided it'd be too busy so made alternative plans.
    Put your canoe on your roof Chris and we'll arrange a mini Expedition Rig meet with Ian (IDC) & Greg if he's around.
    Obviously if it's windy, those of us that don't have modified rigs can watch you from the bank, but hey.

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    I was thinking that same thought ...

    I could probably take a free day somewhere in that first week in June, though I'm working at the following weekend. The big problem is I won't have a car. Now if I were to sort out a mast- and leeboard-thwart for my folding klepper it might be possible to arrive by rail, though it would be an interesting challenge getting the sail and spars on the train.

    Hmmm. I must get that sorted one of these days.
    Ian

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    Hi Ian,

    I was going to suggest that I pick you up and put your yellow canoe on the roof next to mine, but then realised that there isn't the space up there, but I could perhaps get a folding canoe on there somehow.

    I would pass Cambridge on my way to the Broads!

    How small could a folding canoe fold?

    The spars, mast and sail would fit inside the car next to mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamerpoint View Post
    Hi Ian,

    I was going to suggest that I pick you up and put your yellow canoe on the roof next to mine, but then realised that there isn't the space up there, but I could perhaps get a folding canoe on there somehow.

    I would pass Cambridge on my way to the Broads!

    How small could a folding canoe fold?

    The spars, mast and sail would fit inside the car next to mine.
    Now there's an interesting thought. And an incentive to try and get the folding boat kitted out for sailing for a particular deadline. Is Chris (Jurassic) up for a meet and which day would you want to try for?
    The folding boat would fit ok. It comes in two bags: a wide rucksack for the ribs and skin, and a tall bag for the long parts and paddles. I usually fit the long bag into my front passenger seat ('cos it needs the height of the footwell to fit in a Focus), and chuck the wide bag in the boot or back seat. But the long bag could also be strapped to the roof alongside a canoe as it is quite narrow.
    This photo gives you an idea of the size of the two bags:


    All the best,
    Ian

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    Ok - first up, transporting 2 canoes on one roof is not generally a problem.



    You basically strap one down... and strap the other under the straps on the first boat!

    That said... I can bring the Jensen with the Bermudan rig and the Flashfire with the Expedition rig if we're having a meet at a time that works for me.... so we can cope!

    All kinda depends on timing for me: we're supposed to be in Germany from 27th May to 6th June

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    Okay, that's an option cheers Greg.

    Ian, the folding canoe will definitely fit in my car with my gear. It's an estate so we should be okay if you want to try to get it ready on time. If not, we try to get both canoes on the roof as Greg's suggestion. Worse case, we call Greg on route and asking him bring his flashfire & Jensen. We can still bring your Expedition rig with us whatever so it would still be an Expedition rig meet. :-)

    Just need to understand Chris's plans (Jurassic), dates and if he wants to travel 10-hours with a canoe on his roof!

    Is there anyone else nearby that might want to come, that I haven't thought of?

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    Ah guys, that's such a nice idea and I'd love to meet up but I'm not bringing the canoe down (it's just a holiday for myself and Mrs Jurassic in my dad's cabin cruiser/motorboat thing).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
    I'm not bringing the canoe down (it's just a holiday for myself and Mrs Jurassic in my dad's cabin cruiser/motorboat thing).
    The Jensen's here if you want to borrow it

    My availability starts 6th June...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    The Jensen's here if you want to borrow it

    My availability starts 6th June...
    That's very kind and generous of you Greg. I just don't know where we'll be and when (we usually just decide where we're going on a day to day basis when we're on the Broads). I'm also a little bit wary of getting too involved in "me stuff" as it's a holiday for Val too and she's absolutely brilliant at letting me do my own thing with canoe trips etc the rest of the time. Still if you guys were meeting up and I knew when and where I'd try to get there to say hello and maybe get some pictures and video of you in action.

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    Hi Chris,
    I guess the chances of all three of us down here getting to meet up with you in Scotland at the same time is difficult due to the distances involved, yet ironically you will be in our neighbourhood for a week and on the Broads, so it makes a lot sense us setting something up for when your in the area.

    Greg is around from the 7th, which I think means that you will be in Norfolk that week also, I'm only 90-mins up the road, self employed and can take time off when ever (With enough notice) and Ian is less than an hour from the Broads also.

    That said, your on holiday with your family and I know how important it is for some quality family time. Meeting up could complicate things slightly for you.

    Why not have a think about what might be the best day to meet up if you could predict something, we will check our schedules and if we could meet up then and you later can't make it, it's no big deal, we still get together and have a good time, but if you can join us, even better. Does that sound like an idea?

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    I can't speak for Chris, of course, but it sounds like a good idea to me.

    I'll be working over the weekend of the 3rd-5th (but Greg isn't free then) & again Wednesday and Thursday nights. So Monday, Tuesday and Friday would be days that might work best for me. (But I'm not seeking to veto other dates; I'd just have to look harder at timings so I could be back for various commitments--school run, work, etc.)

    Would be nice if it came together, but I completely understand the need to give time to one's spouse--so certainly no pressure from here.

    All the best,
    Ian

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    How are you getting along with the mast foot Ian?

    Chris hasn't mentioned anything more on the subject, so perhaps he wants to focus on spending time with family and we just do our own thing, which he can attend if he wants.

    I take it you have no car then? Appologies if you have explained this somewhere already and I have missed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamerpoint View Post
    How are you getting along with the mast foot Ian?

    Chris hasn't mentioned anything more on the subject, so perhaps he wants to focus on spending time with family and we just do our own thing, which he can attend if he wants.

    I take it you have no car then? Appologies if you have explained this somewhere already and I have missed it.
    Good timing on that question. I reglued the mast foot last Friday, this time moving it and the mast thwart to behind the rear seat so that I can sail the canoe backwards as it were. This is how I usually paddle the boat anyway and I'm hoping it will improve the handling. Dave Stubbs thought there was a lot of weather helm when he tried it at Rutland Water, and thought the extra distance between mast and leeboard thwart would do no harm.

    Today I took it out on the Reach and Burwell lodes to test it out. I'm fairly pleased with the results, having sailed quite a long way along the canal system and only occasionally out of control . The last few miles on the return was into the teeth of the wind so I also got a good paddling work out too. It would be good to try her on more open water--the Broads for example. More scope for playing and getting the hang of the effects of paddle steering, and hence deciding whether I've got the right balance between centre of effort and lateral resistance and so forth.

    Also it would be fun to sail in company. So if you and Greg would like to meet up, I should like to join you. My wife should be back by the 5th June, so if we are talking about the following week it will simply be a matter of my obtaining the car for the day (not always a simple matter for reasons to do with the school run, but hopefully doable).

    Where would be the best place to meet in the Broads for a bit of sailing, preferably not too hard to get to from Cambridge and Peterborough? And which day would suit you and Greg (and Chris, if he and his mrs would like to keep their options open--but I quite understand the importance of family holidays)?

    Cheers,
    Ian

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    Hi Ian, sounds like the rig is working better now.
    This is why I think the clip-on leeboard is better suited to someone steering with a paddle as apposed to using a rudder. The clip-on leeboard can be moved which allows you to fine tune the weather helm, whereas a pivoting leeboard doesn't. Depending on conditions and the type of tack your on, the position of the leeboard changes.

    Sticking a rudder into the water miles behind the rig and leeboard cancels out the need to fine tune the leeboard position.

    As for dates, I'm fairly easy as long as I have a little notice to sort out the work diary.
    Saturdays are going to be tricky for the next 3-weeks though, so a day in the week or a Sunday is best for me.

    I haven't modified my tiller yet. I was thinking of going for a push/ pull system, but worried about a learning curve when using it, but then I spotted a photo of a canoe with two push/pull tillers, one on each side and feel this might be the answer. Still a little nervous though because I would effectively lose momentary steering control when switching tiller, coupled with the switching of the leeboard during a tack.

    I am also toying with the idea of buying a second clip-on leeboard, so I have one over each side. The idea of a symetrical setup interests me. A pivoting leeboad on one side of the canoe will offer better performance on one tack from another as it appears to almost lift completely out of the water on one tack and be completely submerged on the other tack. I just can't work out how to keep them in place without putting a bungee cord or something between them under the canoe, but this would cause drag. I'll think of something.


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    You wouldn't be the first to consider something under the hull to hold the clip on leeboard

    If we can meet up with Chris and Val then I'd make a big effort to be free whenever suited them... but any weekday I'm going to have school-pickup at 3:00pm: I can do before and/or after that time! On Sat 11th June I could certainly do the afternoon and into the evening, and possibly the morning as well: any use?

    Venue: Barton Broad and Hickling are the obvious places to sail... though I've an idea sailing clubs might be busy on both on a Satuday afternoon! We could meet at Martham and sail around to Horsey... or head for somewhere smaller and quieter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    You wouldn't be the first to consider something under the hull to hold the clip on leeboard

    If we can meet up with Chris and Val then I'd make a big effort to be free whenever suited them... but any weekday I'm going to have school-pickup at 3:00pm: I can do before and/or after that time! On Sat 11th June I could certainly do the afternoon and into the evening, and possibly the morning as well: any use?

    Venue: Barton Broad and Hickling are the obvious places to sail... though I've an idea sailing clubs might be busy on both on a Satuday afternoon! We could meet at Martham and sail around to Horsey... or head for somewhere smaller and quieter!
    A weekday daytime would probably suit me better than a weekend: because I work every other weekend there is some understandable pressure to spend my non-working weekends with my family. I also like the fact that most places are less crowded during weekdays. Perhaps we could start early in order to get a full day in before Greg has to go at 3pm. That might be a sensible time for me to leave as well in order to be home with the family in the evening; it seems to be a little under 2 hours to get back to Cambridge (though it might be quicker on the way out if I get up early and travel before the traffic).

    That said, I could try to free up Saturday the 11th, if that suited others best. I might (or might not) be able to persuade my family they want to spend the day in Norfolk while I sail.

    Hoping it all comes together.
    Ian

    PS Chris, I do think I'll try a rudder at some point--one reason why I'm leaving open the possibility of moving the mast thwart back to the other position, as I think a rudder would shift the centre of lateral resistance back a bit--but I feel I ought to try and master the art of paddle sailing while I save. I'm also quite interested by the clip-on leeboard. Might have to try making one at some point.

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    I'm happy to aim at (say) 10:00am on a weekday, and some days I stand a chance of stretching the day beyond mid-afternoon: reasonable flexibility which day we go.... but if school things come up they take priority (school governor hat).

    Two obvious destinations:






    Chris and Val would be nearer Barton Broad, and I've never had any hassle parking and launching at Barton Turf.... but the Hickling, Horsey and Martham area is hard to beat, and Martham's also an easy launch spot

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    Sounds good, Greg. I'm guessing one route or t'other might be better depending on what direction the wind is forecast so should we make the decision closer to the date? (They both seem as easy to get to as one another from my point of view; I'll take your advice.)

    My wife has agreed I can have the car on the Tuesday, so if that is also good for Chris ...

    Ian

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    Can't do next Tuesday because work is already booked in the diary, but could do Tuesday the 7th and Tuesday the 14th.
    I'm easy with any location and any day accept Saturday's as these are our busiest days of the week.
    I would like to think I could lower the canoe into the water from somewhere easy, rather than over a concrete wall where damage to the canoe is a very real prospect. I don't even mind paying a sailing club some money for the ease of using their slipway or such like.

    The only thing that could get in the way for me are force 4+ winds. While I am capable of sailing in stronger winds, I don't enjoy it for long periods as I'm not as fit as I was and after an hour or so, I would be quite exhausted. There is also the extra risk of damaging the canoe & rig, especially as my mast foot is only glued in!!

    Let's pencil in a date and as we get close to it, we can see what the weather is likely to be and either go for it, or put it back slightly if it's going to be blowing a gale!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    I've never had any hassle parking and launching at Barton Turf.... but the Hickling, Horsey and Martham area is hard to beat, and Martham's also an easy launch spot
    Martham Staithe is, apparently, private and I have been accosted there a couple of times although never actually turned away. I am given to understand there is a public launch point further downstream with parking nearby. I think I see it on GoogleEarth by the boatyard.

    Actually, there is also a sign at Barton Turf which says 'no launching' but I have always assumed that related to 'launches' rather than launching small boats such as canoes; I have never had a problem.

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    Fundamentally, the 14th appeals more than the 7th... when I'll only just have got back, and will be on single-dad duties... but that's when Chris and Val are around: I'd much rather have a meet with all of us than just some of us!

    Launching on the broads is not generally a big problem. I'm pretty sure we can find somewhere convenient for either of the locations I've mentioned... but Adrian's caution is worth noting: might be easier to head to Horsey (National Trust carpark, possibly a slipway, but easy enough put-in).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    Launching on the broads is not generally a big problem. I'm pretty sure we can find somewhere convenient for either of the locations I've mentioned...
    I'm sure that's true. Have a great time.

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    If Chris could give us a steer on how probable a randevu is likely to be during his week down this way, it would be easier to pick a date, but at the moment I'll just go with the flow.

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    Okay guys I have approval in principal to meet up with you all if you meet up while we're down. My dads boat is only tiny so we can get to Horsey no problem (we both want to go back there, it was our favourite place when we were on the Broads last year) but Barton Broad or Hickling would be fine too. If you just make your plans I'll do my best to fit in with them. It'd be really nice to meet you all even if I don't have my canoe with me. I'll sit on the boat sipping beer/wine/tea and cheer you all on and take some pictures.

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    That's great news, Chris. To summarise then, are we saying 10am on Tuesday 7th? Location either Barton Broad or Martham Staithe to be confirmed once we've seen the weather report?

    Looking forward to seeing you all for a
    Ian

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    Sounds fine with me, I'll put the 7th in my diary to keep it free and the long range forecast sounds fine too. Overcast with 7 to 8-mph winds (F2) from the north and only a 15% risk of rain. Temperatures of a cool 15 degrees, but that's fine.

    http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=uk714day3;page=6;type=free;ct=216 00~Norwich;sess=

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    Default leeboards, rudders, tillers etc

    clip-on leeboard can be moved which allows you to fine tune the weather helm, whereas a pivoting leeboard doesn't. Depending on conditions and the type of tack your on, the position of the leeboard changes.

    Sticking a rudder into the water miles behind the rig and leeboard cancels out the need to fine tune the leeboard position
    At the risk of being off-topic...

    Chris - I'm going to have to disagree with you there! A pivoting leeboard does provide some range of changing the centre of lateral resistance - by angling it either way. And although the use of a rudder makes it easy to overcome either lee or weather helm you are much better off having things well set up to be balanced and efficient. For instance, I have just made a new leeboard bracket to enable it to be mounted a few inches further forward that will be more in balance for a wider range of situations such as when a bermudan rig is reefed, which moves the centre of effort forward.

    RE the type of tiller to use - you will adapt to a push-pull system quickly; in my opinion having one on each side of the boat is unnecessary.

    I have used twin leeboards but found that the extra hassle of raising one and lowering the other each time you tack was not worth it.

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    You are correct Keith of course, but a yacht with a fixed keel doesn't have the luxury of moving forward or aft when it reefs, nore do many of the sailing dinghies with push down centreboards. (As apposed to my Enterprise, which has a pivoting centreboard)
    In a perfect world, and sailing at the level you will undoubtably do, these things are important, but if you remember one of our first conversations on this site, it was about how important is it when the USA sailing rig has two leeboards very close to the mast. I'll put the image below again to remind you of it. I now know that the position of the leeboard is important, but a canoe will still sail if the leeboards are way out, not the few inches Ian is talking about.

    While I have acquired the ability to paddle steer (Before I got the rudder) I found it to be hugely important to move the leeboard along the gunwales to create a little weatherhelm and aid steering and my point to Ian was that if he went for a rudder, the importance of the precise position of the leeboard is less critical, but great if you can work out where the correct point should be. Also, while the Expedition rigs can be reefed, it is less convenient than say a Bermudan and will probably happen less often, so the changing position of the COE is less of an issue.

    I take your point about pulling the clip-on leeboard out of the water on each tack, but I believe I'm right in thinking that the clip-on leeboards are a fair bit shorter than the pivoting leeboards so as the canoe heels over in the wind, the leeboard on the windward side would lift out of the water to a large extent anyway. My only thoughts about leaving them in when the canoe is flat is the drag that they might cause especially if the angle of attack means that they are squeezing the canoe towards it's centreline. I figured that they would need to be positioned at the widest point of the canoe and then we are back to the COE position again.

    A pivoting leeboard must be less efficient on one tack because it lifts out of the water as the canoe heels compared with the opposite tack where it digs in and looking at it, I would say that the difference could be nearly as much as 100% efficiency differential.
    Look at where the water line is in the above photo (Indicated with a yellow arrow) and then imagine the water line coming up to the gunwales on the opposite tack. The full length of the blade would be submerged, whereas in the photo above, less than 12 inches (Assumed) is under the water line. Perhaps this is why I see photos of canoes with pivoting leeboards on both sides.



    in my opinion having one on each side of the boat is unnecessary.
    Your probably right here too Keith, and there is a fear of taking that step because I am sure it will be alien at first.
    This canoe has two push/ pull tillers and this made me think it might be the way to go.

    Last edited by Steamerpoint; 27th-May-2011 at 09:40 AM.

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    A leeboard on only one side is perfectly efficient if you sail the boat flat! If you can't you've got too much sail up or you're not leaning out enough.

    That canoe with 2 leeboards is not one that I would choose to use as any kind of role model. I would love the chance to sail rings round it...

    Howard's canoe with 2 tillers is a different matter however - it's just that very few others feel the need to use 2 and we get on fine with one, keeping it simple.

    At the end of the day you must make your own decisions - we are only trying to provide advice based on our experiences over the last 20 years, also informed from reading about sailing canoes thro history and speaking with others from around the world about them.

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    We have tried two leeboards and found that they have no real advantage and are only more fiddly. We have raced sailing canoes for many years where winning was important to a few of us, and if the single leeboard didn't work well it would have been dropped. I often sail the canoe well heeled over with the board half way out on the windward side and i cannot tell any difference in performance. In fact i believe it works a little better as on the other tack there is too much board in the water. The reason we sail with the board on the starboard side is that we copied the convention from the American ACA and i believe they said it was quicker that way when you are on the starboard tack for race starts where being on starboard has an advantage because of right of way. I have to admit that i think this is best too.

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    A leeboard on only one side is perfectly efficient if you sail the boat flat! If you can't you've got too much sail up or you're not leaning out enough.

    Good point Keith and actually the best way to sail when racing. Unfortunately as you know, it is difficult to prevent some leaning during a gust or squall.

    Dave your point about there being a little too much blade in the water when it is on the leeward side is a valid one and I think your right about setting yourself on a starboard tack to cross the start line is a great reason why it is best on the starboard side. I had never considered that.

    I keep seeing sailing canoes with two leeboards, even the non-USA variety! See Below.
    For some reason people clearly think that there is some merit in having two leeboards, though I am willing to accept that there are also many sailing canoes with only one.

    Would you therefore say that I would be better off trading up to a pivoting leeboard, rather than buy another clip-on leeboard and devise a method of having one sat over each side?








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    Single pivoting leeboards have several advantages. No intervention needed when tacking, aids lateral stability in bumpy conditions, provides directional stability downwind, provides a lever during capsize recovery, may help hold the boat head to wind if canted forward lots - depending on rig etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamerpoint View Post
    Good point Keith and actually the best way to sail when racing. Unfortunately as you know, it is difficult to prevent some leaning during a gust or squall.

    Dave your point about there being a little too much blade in the water when it is on the leeward side is a valid one and I think your right about setting yourself on a starboard tack to cross the start line is a great reason why it is best on the starboard side. I had never considered that.

    I keep seeing sailing canoes with two leeboards, even the non-USA variety! See Below.
    For some reason people clearly think that there is some merit in having two leeboards, though I am willing to accept that there are also many sailing canoes with only one.

    Would you therefore say that I would be better off trading up to a pivoting leeboard, rather than buy another clip-on leeboard and devise a method of having one sat over each side?







    I think all those photos have one thing in common though, non show boats that could be described as "state of the art" (although I'm sure they're all worthy craft). Progress is often achieved through innovation so maybe somebody will come up with a solution that works better than a single pivoting leeboard in future but I've become very much aware that SD and many experienced OCSG members have tried and discarded many of the ideas that us newbies have proposed on here. I'm not knocking a "fresh pair of eyes" but I for one am happy to tap into the established wisdom as to what works and what doesn't work so well.
    Stern mounted rudder and single pivoting leeboard for me then.
    I think we may have hijacked Greg's thread a bit here.........

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    As well expressed as ever (Jurassic!)

    I'll shut up now.... Hope you all have a great mini meet!

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    I think we may have hijacked Greg's thread a bit here.........
    I think we might have, lol.

    Okay, okay, I'll take the plunge and order a single side mounted push/ pull tiller and probably upgrade to a single pivoting leeboard. I won't cut up my rudder stock too much so if I can't get on with it, I can go back to what it is now.

    Dave, I have just left a message on the SD answerphone. Speak later perhaps.

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    LOL to highjacking the thread: not a concern - though as a final reminder to all... the HBBR meet is still going ahead, and remains a good opportunity to meet other boat-builders and canoe sailers!

    Re: Our meet - can we upgrade it to be an official OCSG "local meet"? That would make it the first in the region

    Re: Leeboards - I'm sold on fixed leeboards for sailing... but the weight penalty still grates for paddling and portaging. I don't see any major improvements coming in the former as that's been tried and tested extensively over the years... but now that the expedition rigs are taking off, we might still see some development work on "clip on" solutions.

    Ps. For the Flashfire I still like the idea (in principle) of a shorter "fixed" leeboard that might only work really well sailing flat or on the one tack... but which could be set up on either side for sailing along a coastline where one tack will predominate - lighter... and might avoid me taking as many swims

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    LOL to highjacking the thread: not a concern - though as a final reminder to all... the HBBR meet is still going ahead, and remains a good opportunity to meet other boat-builders and canoe sailers!

    Re: Our meet - can we upgrade it to be an official OCSG "local meet"? That would make it the first in the region

    Re: Leeboards - I'm sold on fixed leeboards for sailing... but the weight penalty still grates for paddling and portaging. I don't see any major improvements coming in the former as that's been tried and tested extensively over the years... but now that the expedition rigs are taking off, we might still see some development work on "clip on" solutions.

    Ps. For the Flashfire I still like the idea (in principle) of a shorter "fixed" leeboard that might only work really well sailing flat or on the one tack... but which could be set up on either side for sailing along a coastline where one tack will predominate - lighter... and might avoid me taking as many swims
    Greg, I like the idea of making it an OCSG meet (although it's a bit short notice for anyone else who may want to attend) .
    Reference the leeboard question, I screwed a piece of ash (a strip of ash offcut leftover from my mast thwart) onto the top of my clip on leeboard to give the lengths of bungee cord (that you suggested fitting) something positive to locate on. It works quite well, the board still moves about a bit when the pressure comes off but it doesn't float off and once you've hooked the bungee behind it after going about you can pretty much forget about the leeboard until you want to tack again. I'm going to try some heavier bungee cord next as I reckon that will have enough strength to render the leeboard pretty much motionless.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    LOL to highjacking the thread: not a concern - though as a final reminder to all... the HBBR meet is still going ahead, and remains a good opportunity to meet other boat-builders and canoe sailers!

    Re: Our meet - can we upgrade it to be an official OCSG "local meet"? That would make it the first in the region
    If you can meet the criteria for local meets as detailed on the website then why not?

    Dave S and I and a few others are off to brave the breezes of Scotland's west coast tomorrow for a week so responses will be delayed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    Dave S and I and a few others are off to brave the breezes of Scotland's west coast tomorrow for a week so responses will be delayed...
    I'll watch out for you going the other way on the M74/M6 (we're heading in the opposite direction) . I hope you all have a great trip, the weather has calmed down a bit since earlier this week. Have fun and take care.

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    Enjoy your various trips guys, hope the weather is kind, I checked the weather for the West coast this morning and they're still saying 30+ mph gusts all weekend.

    BTW that second last photo, is the guy that heavy or are the leeboards actually a hydrofoil? more than half the front end of the boat appears to be out of the water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by windorpaddle View Post
    If you can meet the criteria for local meets as detailed on the website then why not?
    Well, as the first (very reasonable) requirement is a 4-week notification period, and as I'm not even going to be here to think about it before now and the meet... I suggest we drop the idea of our meet having any OCSG status (and those implications): I'm sure we'd all be happy to see others though

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    At this late stage it is probably best to just advertise the event on the OCSG facebook page, if you are happy with the responsibility of looking after whoever might turn up. I hope you all manage to meet up with Jurassic; he is a great guy and forming friendships and sharing your experiences with him will benefit us all in progressing the cause of canoe sailing. Hope that you have better weather than we will be getting in Scotland

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    Right, myself and Mrs Jurassic are just about to leave so I'll probably not be on SOTP much (if at all) before our mini meet. If one of you nice chaps (Greg, Ian, Chris) would be good enough to drop me a text letting me know where and when we're to meet up that'd be very helpful. As much notice as you could manage would also help (so that I can make sure we're in roughly the right area and not at the other end of the Broads). We'll be cruising about living on the boat so could be anywhere and might miss you otherwise.
    Thanks and I look forwards to meeting you all soon.

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    Shall we aim to sail on Hickling Broad...

    The easy put in would be at The Pleasure Boat Inn: I've not got through to the landlord to confirm the parking and launching options... but as I recall, the last time we went there they just asked for a donation in the pot at the RNLI for launching - and I guess we could park elsewhere in the village if the pay and display option is extortionate!

    Maybe someone could confirm that the arrangement would be ok - Tel: 01692 598870.

    The alternatives might be a launch at Horsey Windpump or Martham Ferry: I'd be happy with either.

  49. #49
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    Hmm... Monday the 6th (Day before) the winds are 20 mph gusting up to 29mph (Force 6), which suggests that it might be quite blowy.

    If the wind dies down tomorrow, I will be drilling the mast foot into the bottom of the canoe for greater strength.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    Shall we aim to sail on Hickling Broad...

    The easy put in would be at The Pleasure Boat Inn: I've not got through to the landlord to confirm the parking and launching options... but as I recall, the last time we went there they just asked for a donation in the pot at the RNLI for launching - and I guess we could park elsewhere in the village if the pay and display option is extortionate!

    Maybe someone could confirm that the arrangement would be ok - Tel: 01692 598870.

    The alternatives might be a launch at Horsey Windpump or Martham Ferry: I'd be happy with either.
    Hi Guys,
    A word of caution with regards to launching at Hickling, don't be tempted to launch from the beach! The "No Launching" signs are there because of underwater rockage, there have been several bad holing incidences there in the past. If you launch from the parish staithe there is a small charge. Big free carpark in The Pleasure Boat and public toilets
    No slipway at Horsey, charge for parking (unless National Trust members) and I think a charge for launching. It can be very busy on the water there.
    Martham Staithe is a parish staithe and they are about to introduce permit only parking but, not yet!!
    Marthan Broad is closed to all watercraft! It is a nature reserve and has very strong protection, it is also very full of weed this time of year, all the way up to the surface!
    You can launch at any Broads Authority 24hr mooring but, car access is rare.

    Hope I haven't spoiled your plans! This whole access situation is a total pain for a perfect canoeing venue.
    Bob

    Of lofty towers we dream,
    And to their hieghts aspire.

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    Hi all,
    Back from Dorset (where I enjoyed paddling the Klepper on Poole harbour--wish I'd had my sail though) and catching up on this thread.

    The forecast looks fine for the 7th, with rather light winds (one might hope for stronger?) though may yet change.
    http://www.xcweather.co.uk/forecast/norwich

    I'm happy to sail wherever you advise, Greg, as I don't know the Broads. Hickling sounds good with a put-in at the Pleasure Boat Inn.

    Looking forward to it.
    Ian

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    Hi Ian, I am pleased to see things have changed for less stormy again. It changes like the weather!!! Oh I suppose that is the point. It's changed from 28mph gusts to 8mph gusts since yesterday so who knows what it will be like 7-days from now! BTW, I was using Great Yarmouth and guess it might be windier on the coast.

    Didn't drill the canoe bottom today. Not because I was scared or anything, but because it has been raining all day here and I don't have anywhere to do it inside, unless I empty half the garage, so I'll do it this week sometime.

    If your sorted for transport next week now, I think I'll go via Kings Lynn & Norwich, rather than Huntindon & Cambridge, but we'll swap mobile numbers nearer the time and check the day before that it's still on.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamerpoint View Post
    If your sorted for transport next week now, I think I'll go via Kings Lynn & Norwich, rather than Huntindon & Cambridge, but we'll swap mobile numbers nearer the time and check the day before that it's still on.
    Yes. I should have the car now. Plan sounds good to me. (And thanks again for the offer of the lift.)
    Looking forward to it.
    Ian
    (And yes, swapping numbers by PM is probably a good idea.)

  54. #54
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    As things are moving closer, can I suggest that we agree to meet up at the The Pleasure Boat Inn at 10:00am this Tuesday the 7th of June. I'm not worried about paying for some parking and if others are, we simply offload the canoes, leave someone to guard them, drive off to dump the cars somewhere and I give those drivers a lift back to the canoes and park up. The only fly in the ointment might be a maximum stay parking arangment or the difficulty of getting back to pay for added parking meter time. In which case, I abandon my car too and we take a taxi back to the canoes! We'll sort something out.

    I'll text/ call Chris (Jurasic) and let him know where we hope to be, so he can start making plans to head over there on his dads boat to join us.

    Greg, long shot, but is is worth you bringing a second canoe for Chris to play in also? I'll double check with Chris first that he can actually meet up with us and let you know before you start loading canoes onto roof bars etc. if you can accommodate him.
    Last edited by Steamerpoint; 4th-June-2011 at 10:59 PM.

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    Great. I'll be there. Weather looks good: http://www.xcweather.co.uk/forecast/hickling
    If I understood Bob's contribution the pub carpark is free--on the assumption, I assume, that one buys a drink or a meal.

    I may show up early, but if I do, I'll make sure I'm about at the Pleasure boat at 10am. Thanks for contacting Jurassic. Looking forward to seeing you all.
    Ian
    I'll PM you my number, Chris.

  56. #56
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    Cheers Ian.

    Okay, just had confirmation from Chris (Jurasic) that he is now heading over that way also to meet up with us there on Tuesday morning.

    As the winds are likely to be light'ish I would very much like to practice some paddling skills for an hour also and as Greg will be with us, perhaps he could show me/us a few paddle strokes.

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    Gathering my things together, loading the canoe and I'll be off--hopefully soon and before the rush hour gets going. Looking forward to seeing you all there.
    Cheers,
    Ian

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    I've put my pictures up in the blogg section here http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...734#post340734
    I'll edit the bit of video I got and add it when I have chance.

  59. #59

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    Hi GregandgeenaS

    Been reading barton turf blog, and was interested in the forward seat that is pictured in the canoe which is being paddled by the guy with the dark glasses on, he is kneeling with gunwale just above water. I have a narrow canoe and need to have any weight as low as possible, i wonder if you know where i can obtain one, or any information/ or site for them. Failing this do you know the guy who's seat it is. Any information would be appreciated. Regards Tony

  60. #60
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    If you want a well designed tandem canoe to paddle well as a solo, it's generally best to kneel in the chines with the canoe at a "standing heel" (so the onside gunwale close to the waterline).

    Seats and thwarts actually get in the way for Canadian-style paddling, but I've come across all sorts of approaches to taking the strain off the ankles. The Buddha bench in one solution, and all sorts of cushions / pedestals get used.

    Mark Maeir made up what looked like an overgrown tentpeg when we were at Kringelfiebler: the notch sat on the gunwale, and the other end rested on the floor of the canoe, somewhere near the keel line. with the canoe heeled to the rail, the "seat" was near enough horizontal.

    My boat's a dedicated solo canoe, so the seat's a standard, gunwale hung offering on short drops: nothing particularly special about it. I find a saddle also works well, though it restricts movement if you want to pitch the bow down for manouvering.

    Finding what's right for you may take some trial and error!

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