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Thread: Anglers, What do they really think ?

  1. #1
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    Default Anglers, What do they really think ?

    I have been browsing an Angling forum to see what they think about canoeing.
    Some of these posts go back a while, some not.
    Mixed views, though canoeists are not welcomed many anglers are willing to tolerate us, if we have consideration for them.

    These are parts of some posts from one thread.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Those B£%#y Canoeists Again!
    Went off fishing my weir pool last night, longest day and so peaceful, what a way to celebrate the onset of summer…

    I was feeding the swim nicely with pellets and the odd boily and actually getting a few plucks, maybe from inquisitive roach or bleak too small to even contemplate swallowing a 16mm pellet.

    All of a sudden, bang, bang, bang, splosh!

    Down came a paddler who acknowledged my presence and gestured a ‘sorry’. Then he turned his fibre glass doorstop around and signalled to others, out of my sight, to follow through. Down came a total of maybe 10 kids all in little paddlers and all then paddled to a secure spot downstream of me, out of the way.

    I bided my time, bit my tongue and hoped they’d just go further off down river to continue their journey. Last one down was, what looked like, the boss of the group. He turned his paddler back to face the weir, right over my baits, and gestured for everyone to join him splashing around in my swim.

    At this point, I am ashamed to say, I lost it – big time!

    I asked him to move on as I had been fishing precisely there where his boat now stood. “We all have to share the river, you have to have some patience.” he cried.

    Now I thought patience is what I had when I saw them come over the weir. Sharing the river is what I was doing when I didn’t say anything whilst they all came through.

    But him going back to really screw up my fishing was too much to bear and to me, because he knew I was there, smacked of arrogance, ignorance, and of being a greedy pig.

    After further exchanges of views he said “We pay a national licence to use the rivers anywhere we like.” (isn’t this what ATr and other have been fighting against for some time now?)

    To which I replied, “I pay a rod licence of £28, far more than you pal plus I have to pay for a permit. Coming over the weir is not a navigable part of the river, use the navigation channel.”

    Just to further explain, Marlow weir is about 120 metres wide, one of the widest, if not the widest, on the Thames. I only wanted my 20 metres of it leaving him the other 100, but he was not satisfied with that, perhaps because my bit has a better plume of water. But does that excuse him ruining my evening’s fishing, not to mention my peace and quiet?

    I was ambivalent about canoeists for quite a while, if they had freedom to roam as they want, would they abuse it. Now I am dead set in my mind – YES, THEY DAMNED WELL WOULD!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Very inconsiderate of the canoeists
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Always take a catty and a box of maggots with you. Even if you aren't going to use them as bait.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just as I was going to suggest, a few pouch full’s into the swim may make them alter their course.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These might only have been paddlers or whatever they want to call them, fibre glass doorstops is my desription, but whatever, they do definitely disturb the fish.

    I think it was 2006 when I was in the same place in the afternoon, a boiling hot one again and the river was so slow it was almost going back up to Oxford. I'd got a nice shoal of 50 or so chub from 2 - 5 lbs feeding on pellets so confidently they actually swam through my shadow on the water (blowing a few theories apart). I still hadn't put any tackle in at this point and it was just nice seeing them feeding away and even predicting where I was going to throw the next few pellets.

    Then over came the paddlers. All those chub scattered as if a nuclear warning siren had gone off.

    I waited until the paddlers had gone on then started feeding again. First just one or two showed, but gradually after about an hour the rest showed up and were just starting to get confident again when - bump, bump, bump, splosh - down came another load of paddlers.

    Maybe I should get the EA to put the chains back across the river before the weir. I don't know who took them down in the first place. Any guesses?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    So the fish moved away to feed elsewhere but came back after an hour. sounds like they were really traumatised (NOT)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Do you have access to a supply of horse turds?
    If so then get the ground bait catapult out and....well you know what to do.
    As far as the piddlers are concerned it's 'ground bait'

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I hope this angler washes his hands before eating his butties.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Situations like this call for the 6 oz Arlesy BOMB! They dont call it a bomb for nothing A couple of well directed chucks from a beach caster should put them in their place.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For thise that dont know, this is a pear shaped metal weight, they can vary in size from very small to a few ounce. These could really injure someone or worse. A stupid comment if this anglers is being serious, hopefully not.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With my serious hat on, I have been annoyed when canoes come down the river and contemplated a catty of something in their direction. However I have been and met their members and told them how annoying they are. Surprisingly the first question they asked was where do you want us to pass you?
    Lets face canoeing it isn't going away, it's going to get more and more popular , surely some understanding of our chosen pastimes , and sensible discussion would benefit all users of our waterways.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well done to this angler, when I come near anglers on a canal, I always stop and ask where their hook bait is. I then avoid as much as I can.
    Also floats that I retrieve I give to young anglers, they are the future adult anglers.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I do not see how firing maggots at canoeists is presenting any kind of argument. Many people are seriously disgusted by maggots. It is simply revenge thinking that does nothing but provoke a worse reaction.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A reaction that will always see us the losers.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wasn't seriously suggesting that you catty maggots at them...it was a joke!
    Perhaps I should have inserted one of those smiley things?
    Technically it is a criminal offence known as Common Assault and I would never suggest to anyone that they break the Law.
    Silly of me to post really. How could I possibly turn the ruination of a chaps days fishing into a joke?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Correct, its also very petty and just causes more conflict.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You and I and anyone else has a right to voice their opinions about the issue, the more people do it the better.
    if your fishing on the river when the canoeists come by please assess the situation yourself in the terms of what disruption they are causing you.
    Some anglers are unsure or do not want confrontation, but please be polite but firm if they are intent on paddling through your swim. You may be fishing shallow swims. They may come close to your lines and the chance of that specimen fish may be gone.
    Explain that you are fishing and that your activity will be disrupted if they come past.
    There is no right of Navigation on the Dearne.
    However the EA will say that they cannot stop them canoeing , but crucially the EA will NOT police or control their behaviour, so its down to anglers to publicly voice their concerns.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Interesting,
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Don't worry JXXX, our new caring sharing and 'fair' P.M. who took part in the AT's support for angling farce, is also a ...
    canoeist.
    No worries there then
    Richard Benyon might mouth the words but remember who gives the jobs out, his boss and our canoe supporting P.M.
    For the best advice contact Simon Jackson at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An angler and a canoeist, I hope he doesnt sit on the fence and just helps to remove it.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Take a hatchett with you, strip b*!*!*k naked, wave the hatchett at them and scream my dead mother has told me to kill you all!
    works for me!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As long as he isnt fishing with maggots as well, could be ebarrassing.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On some sections of the Wear its not only inconsiderate canoeists we have to put up with but also fellow 'anglers'. Sea trout anglers to be precise, who think nothing of wading through your swim, very often just as the fish will have started to move onto your free offerings
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Conflict between coarse and game anglers, this is a new one to me.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You are all being too direct - start thinking outside the box.

    Now I reckon that Griff Reece Jones plonker (and he's helped cause a lot of this grief), looks the type to play a bit of tennis. Let's find which club he uses and when he's into a match a group of us start playing five a side on his court.
    "What are you doing?" He will ask.
    "Sharing an amenity" We would reply in unison.
    "But I pay to use this facility and its private" He would cry.
    "We pay to use our river and it is also private" Say we.
    Maybe, if this is repeated at enough golf courses, gyms etc frequented by canoeists we could get a message across.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Private hmmmmmmmm, Yea you would get a message across, that your being a selfish XXXXXXXXX.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think I have told this story before but last year I was hemp and taring for roach on the Colne when a large group of kids in those little stubby canoes started playing canoe football about 10yards upstream of me splashing and shouting, I was not happy but persevered. The bites kept coming regardless.
    When they had enough and paddled off upstream I was in peace again but I couldn't buy a bite...........

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe if they hire a canoeist for a day to paddle near them, they might catch more fish.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  2. #2
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    Both interesting and on the whole, worrying.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

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    Our message must be, that under conditions of access similar to Scotland, Anglers and Canoeists can get along just fine, as they do in Scotland. No politician will want to take sides in a conflict between two groups of his constituents.

    Highlighting instances of conflict does not help us get what we want.

    In fact, the vast majority of canoeists and anglers have no conflict and would be fully prepared to co-operate after the changes we want..

    I would much rather see stories about the thousands of encounters that happen every day between Anglers and Canoeists where there is no conflict and only co-operation.This not only supports our case, but is much closer to reality.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Ratty,which forum ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Our message must be, that under conditions of access similar to Scotland, Anglers and Canoeists can get along just fine, as they do in Scotland. No politician will want to take sides in a conflict between two groups of his constituents.

    Highlighting instances of conflict does not help us get what we want.

    In fact, the vast majority of canoeists and anglers have no conflict and would be fully prepared to co-operate after the changes we want..

    I would much rather see stories about the thousands of encounters that happen every day between Anglers and Canoeists where there is no conflict and only co-operation.This not only supports our case, but is much closer to reality.
    I totally agree with your way of thinking . There is no point in taking any notice of one or two people stirring the Sh#t on a fishing forum. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

    Most fishermen never bother us canoeists providing we are responsible and considerate river users.



    .
    Last edited by Mitch; 26th-March-2011 at 07:18 PM. Reason: spelling
    Mitch

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    Maybe not but it gives a realistic view and not an idealistic one

    Its an opinion and its allllllll mine.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    I totally agree with your way of thinking . There is no point of taking any notice of one or two people stirring the Sh#t on a fishing forum. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

    Most fishermen never bother us canoeists providing we are responsible and considerate river users.
    I have not stirring anything on an angling forum, so less of the accusations.

    I am an angler and I am a member of a couple of angling forums.

    Just for your info,

    I can type on an angling forum about canoing if I ever decide too.
    The same as I can type about angling on a canoing forum.

    I thought I still lived in the UK when I awoke this morning.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    I had a look at a Salmon & trout fishing forum which someone provided a link to on one of the other threads related to this and thought that most of them sounded quite reasonable and measured.

    There is certainly nothing to be gained by winding people up. Good sport if you like it, but not if you are trying to gain something.
    http://www.davidwperry.blogspot.co.uk/

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Our message must be, that under conditions of access similar to Scotland, Anglers and Canoeists can get along just fine, as they do in Scotland.
    And almost everywhere else in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    I would much rather see stories about the thousands of encounters that happen every day between Anglers and Canoeists where there is no conflict and only co-operation.This not only supports our case, but is much closer to reality.
    There are also all the hours and miles where paddlers don't see anglers and anglers don't see paddlers, and each is enjoying the same natural resource. This also doesn't get mentioned and should (use your blogs)

    Brevan
    Last edited by Brevan; 26th-March-2011 at 07:40 PM.
    Brevan,
    The truth (about Rights of Navigation) is out there
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    Ratty,
    You were one of the first people of the thirty who have so far written to their MP... hopefully many, many others will follow your example...

    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...le-Take-Action!
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    Just to further explain, Marlow weir is about 120 metres wide, one of the widest, if not the widest, on the Thames. I only wanted my 20 metres of it leaving him the other 100, but he was not satisfied with that, perhaps because my bit has a better plume of water.
    They always forget the Thames is a public navigation.

    As a member of the canoe club only 50 metres from Marlow I am able to confirm the chap is talking tosh. The 20 metre section he refers to is the only practical descent. The 'other 100mtres' is full of ironwork and the lock-keeper would be seriously upset if we shot through that.

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    Default Top 10 Angler thoughts

    When I saw the title I expected a little comic relief.


    1. I must catch a fish.
    2. They must be biting over there.
    3. If it wasn't so sunny I would have caught a fish by now.
    4. If it wasn't so stormy I would have caught a fish by now.
    5. If it wasn't so noisy I would have caught a fish by now.
    6. The big one is just about to bite my hook now.
    7. Why are those paddlers smiling and they are not even fishing.
    8. I must change my bait or lure as that is what the fish want now.
    9. No one is watching I can toss this rubbish in the water.
    10. The worst day fishing is better than the best day working.



    That's quite a first fish. (Caught from a canoe.)

    A solution I see is invite young fishing people in your canoe. They will never bank fish again.
    Dr. Joe
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    This is part of the point.
    How can any canoeist or swimmer ect compromise with fishermen and visa versa if neither understands each others needs. the same as this angler didn't understand that you sometimes have no choice but take the safe option.
    We all need to understand what each other think or things will never move on to a happy coexistence.
    I get the feeling that some anglers think that canoeist literally want to push them off the rivers. Also that the rivers will suddenly be as busy as the M6, but I don't think will be so.
    Anglers do mention the money side allot and I can see why this does wind them up. but this is secondary and will be sorted out one way or another in time.
    Mentioned allot also is that will land owners loose revenue. But if you take the river Wye anglers still sit happily fishing. and some landowners have set up campsites. I know I would pay for a corner of a field with a put in and a safe place to leave my car. doesn't have to be anything posh. As well I would probably pay for a days fishing if I was there a few days.
    I think I will start a new thread about put in fees, parking fees. (Ive just got curious as i normally pay on average £5 for a days fishing , dawn till dusk)
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    Dr Joe
    My Mrs usually comes coarse and sea fishing with me. I have tought her the basics and she can bait up, land fish the rest of the stuff.
    I have been fishing for yearssssss.
    She has been fishing for about 24 months.

    Loads of times she has caught more or bigger fish than me.

    I have come to the conclusion.

    Fish prefer perfume to aftershave.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    Ratty
    It would be very interesting to know how anglers and canoeists in Scotland got on before the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and how they get on now.... how were these issues resolved in Scotland? Hopefully this would allay any fears English and Welsh anglers might have...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Default In both camps

    I'm another in both camps as I fish, kayak & canoe ... though I've spent far more years watching a float and flicking a fly-line than I have floating on top of the water.

    I met a lovely gent on the Dove, he was sitting on the bank patiently waiting for Sundays Dove tour to pass in order to start fishing. If he didn't think the brilliant Burton Canoe Club organised (thanks Steve et al) 2 day tour would scare the fish ... nothing will. He was most relieved to hear that my son and I were almost the last to paddle through.

    Last Wednesday, 15miles down the Dee, little water in the river which made it interesting, our 2 canoes and 2 kayaks on the run ... we met no one else on the water and just the one fisherman ... he'd caught and released a grayling (out of season) and he was hoping for something a little different. Had a pleasant natter and onwards.

    To date I've never had a problem with fisherman, maybe because I am one, maybe because I've yet to meet the 'ornery specimens whilst I'm in my canoe or kayak.

    Float fishing on canals I used to like the narrow boats coming past ... they seemed to bring the fish with them, more often than not.

    It's the one world ... we should be able to co-exist fairly happily ... if we try.
    DCUK
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    Ah, PP, the gentle voice of reason... so refreshing...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Doug, Thats a good point. Especially as Scotland has always been seen as the top of the pile. Angers pay mega bucks to have a beat to themselves, the fish and maybe the occasional

    PP, The grayling has as yet been elusive to me. Maybe I should take a bottle of the mrs best perfume next time.
    Oh and that goose egg, was delicious. certainly set me up for the day.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

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    Maybe our Scots friends can enlighten us
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    England has about the same land mass as our Maritime Provinces. (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island) but also has 51 million people living there as opposed to our 1.8 million. It is just a bit more crowded so more chance for conflict.

    As a canoeist I can see the canoeists side. As an angler I guess I would see theirs. I get disappointed when a speed boat goes by without throttling down or a jet ski tries to sink me on purpose but I am reasonably tolerant. If I were less tolerant I may be downright mean to powerboaters or canoeists or anglers as the case may be.

    Talking to these people face to face usually results in the line; "the problem is not you personally... it is those other (insert group here) that ruin it for every one." If everyone would talk however, then soon everyone would realize that none are to blame and all must accept responsibility.
    Lloyd

    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...


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    Default Paddling fishing..

    as i do both and often at the same time in Scotland i will "weigh in"[pardon the pun] with my
    hapence worth.
    When considering paddling where i know anglers will have forked out big money on narrow river beats i paddle on the Sabbath day and give them peace to enjoy my sport as i enjoy my other sport the day they are forbidden to play.
    Simples innit?
    If the water is seriously wide enough to give bank anglers and waders space then i might go ahead but only after checking water levels are high enough to allow it.
    Common sense again is what is needed from both positions but sadly this seems to be a lost art,even on lochs where anglers are banking and i am cruising not far out i am in the habit of always heading out to a distance where they are then left their space and they invariably note this and appreciate it with an acknowledgement.
    There is absolutely no reason anglers and paddlers cannot get on but unreasonable behaviour from either group can and does lead to conflict.
    The fact is serious confrontations are rare but they are the ones to make the medias day and thus give those that do not understand the needs of both camps the idea
    that the bad blood is irreconcilable when nothing could be further from the truth.willie
    "Every action of our lives touches on
    some chord that will vibrate in eternity"

    Edwin Hubbel Chapin

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    I don't think its worth being too concerned about posts like this example on the angling forum. It's just one guy who felt his day was ruined by some canoeist paddling in an area where he was fishing.

    The reality is that if you search enough fishing forums you will find comments like this, but doesn't mean that it reflects the views of the majority. People tend to use forums as a place to air their grievances.

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    The reality is that if you search enough fishing forums you will find comments like this, but doesn't mean that it reflects the views of the majority. People tend to use forums as a place to air their grievances.
    as an example, The poor fisherfolk on there trying to stick up for other water users just get shot down as soon as they mention anything.


    http://www.salmonfishingforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=27774

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    Just read the thread on salmonfishingforum.
    How about inviting fisherfolk to discussions over here?
    Cheers, Pieface.

    "What's so special about the cheesemakers?"

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    It has been tried before with paddlers talking on fishing forums but usually just ends upon with a select few taking the tone of the conversation down to the level of the gutter.

    Even kayak fishermen get abuse for daring to go out in a canoe or kayak.

    Better to promote the healthy, environmental aspects of our own sport in a positive was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Joe View Post
    When I saw the title I expected a little comic relief.


    1. I must catch a fish.
    2. They must be biting over there.
    3. If it wasn't so sunny I would have caught a fish by now.
    4. If it wasn't so stormy I would have caught a fish by now.
    5. If it wasn't so noisy I would have caught a fish by now.
    6. The big one is just about to bite my hook now.
    7. Why are those paddlers smiling and they are not even fishing.
    8. I must change my bait or lure as that is what the fish want now.
    9. No one is watching I can toss this rubbish in the water.
    10. The worst day fishing is better than the best day working.



    A solution I see is invite young fishing people in your canoe. They will never bank fish again.
    Is this funny enough for you Dr Joe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    It has been tried before with paddlers talking on fishing forums but usually just ends upon with a select few taking the tone of the conversation down to the level of the gutter.
    That's why i suggest we do it here.
    Cheers, Pieface.

    "What's so special about the cheesemakers?"

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    Inviting anglers to post here on what they think, would adversely affect our campaign... it would prove nothing, and end up with all the usual suspects on both sides slagging each off.

    We know what anglers think. Just check out angling forums.

    If you want to help the access campaign, please write to your MP and vote on 38 Degrees, see here.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Is this funny enough for you Dr Joe?

    That about sums it up. LOL
    Dr. Joe
    Electric Hospital
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    I once saw an incident at a surf break next to a pier.

    A sea fisherman started to actually cast his lead weight at a chap surfing just under the lee side of the pier.

    The surfer shouted at him to stop.....he said I am an ex Marine so don't mess with me and cast another shot at him!

    The Surfer seriously lost it, paddled in, walked up to the pier with paddle in hand! Now the 'Ex Marine' has got a 3 inch paddle Mark on his forehead, after having a trip to the hospital!

    Both parties were VERY foolish..... The surfer is lucky that he did not get arrested for GBH! This is what happens though, if folk feel that they are in danger from other peoples actions!

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    Please can we remember that this is NOT fisherman v canoeists. Too much of the talk on access is about that.

    This is about responsible access for all river users to the waters we will then have to share.

    I don't think getting involved on each others forums is going to achieve anything positive, the loudest shouter will get the most attention & that helps nobody.

    As Doug says, lobby the admin bodies & the politicians.
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

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  32. #32
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    Hi Some anglers really think that canoeists are the scum of the earth and are not to be tolerated.

    I have started looking through angling and fisheries newsletters.

    I found this on "Ribble Fisheries Cosultative Ass." Newsletter No.13 March 2010.


    Water Related Recreation Activities Draft Strategy NW.

    Thank you to all the people who wrote in complaining about this very poor document. All the major fishery organisations from the Eden, Derwent, Lune and Ribble made their views known. Fishery representatives on the NW Regional, Ecology, Recreation Advisory Committee also made their views known and RFERAC was not in favour. RFCA Chairman met senior E.A. NW figures to express grave doubts as to the document and submitted a twelve page critique. We are delighted to say that the document has been withdrawn in its current format and will be rewritten. Let us hope that second time around it will be more factually accurate.
    If no one had objected that document would have become policy with grave implications for fisheries and encouragement to the unlawful activities of canoeists.
    We are still awaiting news from the Welsh Assembly and their deliberations on a similar document for Wales.

    With Fisheries people putting out propaganda like this what else can we expect?

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    As an Angler 1st and a Canoeist 2nd I don't know where I stand anymore.

    I just want to be able to enjoy both sports without bothering anyone and without anyone bothering me.

    Not to much to ask is it?

    It all makes me feel a little bit sadder every time I see all this "it's us against them" on here.

    Next year I am thinking of going "license free" on both sports and be a poacher and trespasser........well, I pay my taxes don't I?

    I can't be the only canoeing angler on this forum can I?

    .
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    As an Angler 1st and a Canoeist 2nd I don't know where I stand anymore.

    I just want to be able to enjoy both sports without bothering anyone and without anyone bothering me.

    Not to much to ask is it?

    It all makes me feel a little bit sadder every time I see all this "it's us against them" on here.

    Next year I am thinking of going "license free" on both sports and be a poacher and trespasser........well, I pay my taxes don't I?

    I can't be the only canoeing angler on this forum can I?

    .
    Snap ... though I'm not going licence free ... and I'd be very surprised if a fair proportion of SotP members aren't fellow anglers too.
    DCUK
    Can't ytpe or roopf read

  35. #35
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    Hi Eddie,

    There is a level of acceptance amongst canoeists that respects angler's legitimate activities but not at the exclusion of canoeing.

    I am sure that you accept both worlds. I have fished occasionally and rarely caught fish. but for the periods I have fished I enjoyed it. I do prefer to catch edible fish and now restrict myself to fishing at sea from a seakayak whilst expeditioning.

    The fishy fraternity in some parts clearly wish to criminalise canoeing.

    So, Eddie you will not be ostracised from the canoeing world but I worry about the fishy types and their intentions.

    May you catch enough and paddle freely.

    Doug
    When there's trouble on shore, there's peace on the wave,
    Afloat in the White Canoe.
    Alan Sullivan


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    Quote Originally Posted by dougoutcanoe View Post
    Hi Eddie,

    There is a level of acceptance amongst canoeists that respects angler's legitimate activities but not at the exclusion of canoeing.

    I am sure that you accept both worlds. I have fished occasionally and rarely caught fish. but for the periods I have fished I enjoyed it. I do prefer to catch edible fish and now restrict myself to fishing at sea from a seakayak whilst expeditioning.

    The fishy fraternity in some parts clearly wish to criminalise canoeing.

    So, Eddie you will not be ostracised from the canoeing world but I worry about the fishy types and their intentions.

    May you catch enough and paddle freely.

    Doug
    Hi Doug, I never said I caught any fish

    I am sure there are rouges on both sides of this and we'll never be able to stop it.

    The guy that owns the fishery down the road from me lets the Hinckley Canoe Club use one of his Carp lakes to practice on. He is also letting us have a lake to ourselves all day tomorrow to trim our canoes up in and camp overnight on one of his barge moorings, so I see the best side of angling too.

    On a more "serious note" I see you admit to paddling a kayak on here.........you're a very very very brave man

    I have never fished and paddled as yet but looking forward to that too.

    I'm not that worried about being ostracised from the canoeing world, I used to play Rugby League in an area full of Union players, or should thar be "Uon"?

    Vik

    .
    Last edited by Eddie Stalkperch; 21st-April-2011 at 08:06 PM. Reason: spilling lol
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    As an Angler 1st and a Canoeist 2nd I don't know where I stand anymore.

    I just want to be able to enjoy both sports without bothering anyone and without anyone bothering me.

    Not to much to ask is it?

    It all makes me feel a little bit sadder every time I see all this "it's us against them" on here.

    Next year I am thinking of going "license free" on both sports and be a poacher and trespasser........well, I pay my taxes don't I?

    I can't be the only canoeing angler on this forum can I?

    .

    As I said in another thread I have been an angler for just over 25 years and enjoy all kinds of fishing coarse, sea and game. I am also a keen paddler and level 2 coach.
    Whilst I won't be going license free the conflict does sadden and annoy me. I've never had any grief whilst fishing and having grown up fishing canals really don't have a problem with boats whilst I'm fishing. On several occasions whilst paddling I have abuse and agro and I don't know any other paddlers that haven't. I'm not person that likes conflict and it does really put me off. I do after all go out to relax and enjoy myself. If I feel like this as an experienced paddler what effect must it have on newcomers to the sport. There can't be many other pastimes that put up with what we have to.

  38. #38

    Default Just think sometimes.........

    This is a very interesting thread that is close to my heart. I am both an angler and a paddler, and yes I confess that when canoeing I (on very rare occasions) have been very annoyed by anglers, and when fishing have I (also on rare occasions) have been very annoyed by paddlers.

    The reason for this has nothing at all to do with the activity they were undertaking, but everything to do with their behaviour. I have every sympathy with the gentleman on the fishing forum, who whilst fishing below a weir waited for the boats to pass through, only then to find all the paddlers playing exactly where he was fishing. Really, do paddlers have to do that, if someone is already fishing there, isn't is just better to pass through quietly. If paddlers were already on the river and a fisherman arrived on the bank, the paddlers would be pretty annoyed if the angler started to throw bait at them/cast at them etc. That said, I have no sympathy at all with anglers who get annoyed and aggressive purely at a group of paddlers quietly floating by on the far side of the river.

    Always, Dr Joe's point No.9 (I think), accusing anglers of purposely littering water if woefully innaccurate for the vast majority (certainly in the UK), and massively unhelpful. Most anglers (just like paddlers) deeply care about the rivers and lakes they use, and will take litter home with them when they find it. Anyway, I have personally witnessed a paddler throwing a fag end into the Tyne on the Tyne tour (I fished it out and dropped it back in this boat - yes it was an open! - informing him that he must have dropped it by mistake).

    The fact of the matter is that most fisherman are perfectly decent people, and most paddlers are perfectly decent people. It is (as always) unfortunate that the less pleasant of more vocal minority are the ones who attract all the attention.

    This is isn't meant to be a 'have a go and paddlers' post, and I'm not a fisherman posing as a paddler to make a point (in fact I had a lovely day on the Washburn yesterday, albeit in a kayak). It's just that some paddlers (but I must say this site has some of the most balanced views) castigate all anglers as 'the enemy', when this really isn't the case.

    The access debate isn't paddlers vs fishing. Nothing will ever be solved without primary legislation, as all the relevant parties (landowners, Riparian owners, fishing rights holders, paddlign organisations etc etc) will rarely come to a voluntary agreement that everyone is happy with, so please don't lay all the blame at the door of one group, it really isn't that simple. THat said, we shouldn't 'give up'. Write to the PM, write to your MP, lobby people.

    But as a final thought, up here in Yorkshire, even a prominent and highly placed member of the BCU (allegedly - cover myself here) doesn't allow paddling on the bits of the river that he owns (you can fish it for a fee though!).

  39. #39

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    ALso, on a different note, if any of the guys who were just putting on the Washburn in an Old Town Pack just as I was leaving yesterday, how did you get on? You must have balls the size of..........

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by darbinotley View Post
    But as a final thought, up here in Yorkshire, even a prominent and highly placed member of the BCU (allegedly - cover myself here) doesn't allow paddling on the bits of the river that he owns (you can fish it for a fee though!).
    If this is true he/she should be named and shamed!! If you really want to cover yourself it should be
    doesn't allow paddling on the bits of the river that he allegedly owns
    Keith

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    Very nicely put darbinotley

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithD View Post
    If this is true he/she should be named and shamed!! If you really want to cover yourself it should be
    ~ How can someone own the water that my canoe sits in?
    ... It's miles away by sundown - probably mingling with 'mother ocean'
    'Land'-owners should content themselves with owning the riverbank. I don't need those bits (at least not their bits of those bits.)

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by green--arrow View Post
    ~ How can someone own the water that my canoe sits in?
    ... It's miles away by sundown - probably mingling with 'mother ocean'
    'Land'-owners should content themselves with owning the riverbank. I don't need those bits (at least not their bits of those bits.)

    Yes, fair enough. I wasn't trying to get into a debate about the technicalities of Riparian rights, just trying to illustatrate that the issue regarding access to water is often complex. The alleged high profile figure in the BCU is the alleged Riparian owner of a section of river where there are various "No canoes or boats" signs etc. I just thought that was an interesting aside.

  44. #44
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    I have never had a problem with anglers personally. I think its just the few anglers that visit the fishing forums who are angry, simply because their forums told them to be. Before I became a member here last year I never knew that this rift existed.

    Despite never encountering an angry angler, knowledge of the fishing forums view has meant that I am more considerate as I approach anglers to ensure their is no reason to cause concern. I think this is good enough, if an angler ever does get angry, let them, I'm hardly going to be sticking around anyway.
    - Alex

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    Just come back from a weeks paddling down the Wye. Despite being a 'highly regarded popular game angling river' we saw a total of 4 anglers in almost 90 miles of river. (plus one nr Ross who was clearly poaching) They were all friendly and smiley and chatted as we quietly passed by.
    Happy days
    Paul

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    Just come back from a weeks paddling down the Wye. Despite being a 'highly regarded popular game angling river' we saw a total of 4 anglers in almost 90 miles of river. (plus one nr Ross who was clearly poaching) They were all friendly and smiley and chatted as we quietly passed by.
    Happy days
    Paul
    You were lucky. I appreciate the good spirit that you are trying to promote Paul, but I'm afraid I'm a little more cynical than you. There are elements within angling circles that are bigotted and intolerant. And I speak as a life long angler. What's going on at the moment is basically fascism which I intend to fight to the best of my ability.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sobranie View Post
    You were lucky. I appreciate the good spirit that you are trying to promote Paul, but I'm afraid I'm a little more cynical than you. There are elements within angling circles that are bigotted and intolerant. And I speak as a life long angler. What's going on at the moment is basically fascism which I intend to fight to the best of my ability.
    I'd go along with this but there are bad attitudes on both sides. There are also great attitudes on both sides. Its been a good number of years since I have had a negative encounter with an angler. I'm sure luck has played a part in that but.......

    I make a point of collecting the occasional bit of river-rubbish as I go along. People can see that I'm cleaning up the river and look at me in a more favourable light. I hasten to add that there isn't too much rubbish around generally so it doesn't detract from having a nice paddle. Everyone's happy though.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sobranie View Post
    There are elements within angling circles that are bigotted and intolerant.
    As there are within canoeing circles.

  49. #49
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    This is not and never has been an angling v fishing argument. All water users are hinders by they right to navigate. Certian members of the angling community like to stir things up because that is all they can do. Unfortunately the bigger the argument they make the more press them get.

    It is like in Wales where some peopl say that the rivers are too small to allow paddlers and fishermen on? Well Norther Ireland have just made another two canoe trails and have all rivers open to the public so if it can work there it can work in the rivers and streams of England and Wales.

  50. #50
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    I wonder what the views are of the angling celebrities, like Alan Yates, John Wilson, Dave Harrel, Bob James, Jan Porter, Matt Hayes. Bob Nudd.
    I also wonder what are the angling press's views, do they have a view or do they just avoid the subject. Ihave found very little personally.
    It would be fantastic to get these people on board to help to keep things nice and calm.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
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  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I wonder what the views are of the angling celebrities, like Alan Yates, John Wilson, Dave Harrel, Bob James, Jan Porter, Matt Hayes. Bob Nudd.
    I also wonder what are the angling press's views, do they have a view or do they just avoid the subject. Ihave found very little personally.
    It would be fantastic to get these people on board to help to keep things nice and calm.
    I think you'll find NACA have got this thing stitched up pretty tightly. Their Vice-President runs the local Fisheries Action Plan Group, and the Wensum Valley Trust.

    John Wilson used to be their President, but they forced to him to resign over some minor misdemeanor over lead shot use. I'm not sure about the details, you would have to speak to John Wilson himself to get to the truth.

    But as I heard it, the most respected angler in the country was treated like dirt.

    I have no idea what the others make of it. I've had a 3 page email exchange with Mark Lloyd, Director of the Angling Trust, which ended in a brief message that "I'm too busy to deal with this".

    Which leaves us in a bit of quandary ...
    Last edited by sobranie; 4th-August-2011 at 10:46 PM.

  52. #52
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    Send the whiny wenches over here for the opening day of Trout season. Elbow to elbow is the main reason I never fish the first two weeks. If I fish at all, it is on tiny streams way up in the hills, that the elbow to elbow never bother with.

    A whole fleet of canoes drifting through make a LOT less noise than the mud stompers beating the water to death do.
    Last edited by MagiKelly; 5th-August-2011 at 08:09 PM.
    Canoeing and camping are both cheaper than therapy... and generally more productive.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sobranie View Post
    You were lucky. I appreciate the good spirit that you are trying to promote Paul, but I'm afraid I'm a little more cynical than you. There are elements within angling circles that are bigotted and intolerant. And I speak as a life long angler. What's going on at the moment is basically fascism which I intend to fight to the best of my ability.
    I understand why you're more than a little cynical having come across lots of evidence regarding the actions of a particular fishing organisation in your neck of the woods. However, fortunately most anglers are normal people & I would say you've been unlucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomorem6 View Post
    I make a point of collecting the occasional bit of river-rubbish as I go along. People can see that I'm cleaning up the river and look at me in a more favourable light. I hasten to add that there isn't too much rubbish around generally so it doesn't detract from having a nice paddle. Everyone's happy though.
    Totally agree, I've had slightly unhappy angler's turn into thankful slightly embarrassed anglers when they've seen me picking up rubbish clearly left by other anglers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus2 View Post
    As there are within canoeing circles.
    As in any shpere of life there are good uns & a minority of idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I wonder what the views are of the angling celebrities, like Alan Yates, John Wilson, Dave Harrel, Bob James, Jan Porter, Matt Hayes. Bob Nudd.
    I also wonder what are the angling press's views, do they have a view or do they just avoid the subject. Ihave found very little personally.
    It would be fantastic to get these people on board to help to keep things nice and calm.
    I know Matt Hayes and John Wilson through my work in the fishing industry. Both are nice, normal people who whilst not PRO-canoeing, respect the canoeists right to exist as long as they behave responsibility. Sadly, they would not be likely to actively support our access campaign, because some anglers would resent them for it.


    I've said it on here several times. Our access campaign is NOT a canoeists v anglers campaign. It is a campaign for ALL people to have the access to our rivers that we believe is their ancient right, be they paddlers, swimmers, walkers, anglers, boaters, pooh stick racers or whatever....
    Paddler,blogger,camper,pyromaniac: Blog: Wilderness is a State of Mind

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  54. #54
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    Thumbs up

    come to ireland, never met anyone but a friendly fisherman over here.

    pick up the odd caught/ lost float and give it to younger members as a gift. ask which way you want to pass, enquire how they are doing. If they think you are interested and thinking about them theres not a lot negative they can say is there?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by owengriffiths View Post
    enquire how they are doing
    Vous avez de la chance, monsieur?

    Vous avez votre diner?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Vous avez de la chance, monsieur?

    Vous avez votre diner?
    Is that how they speak in Ireland??

    Sam

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    The unfortunate reality is that anglers are much better organised and much more prepared to take action, to further their own interests, than canoeists.

    This is exemplified by the lack of action by our peak body, the BCU, through to lack of response by individual canoeists when invited to participate in various campaigning actions, like letter writing, protest paddling and so on.

    There are willing participants on this forum, but until many, many more take up the struggle, success is doubtful.
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  58. #58

    Default

    From the moniker you can probably guess that I have a foot/paddle in both camps, enjoying both obsessions equally and occasionally combining the two. Over here in N. Ireland there is plenty of space on waterways and a welcome for all who exhibit tolerance and respect for their fellow water users and for the environment we live and play in.

    I agree with one contributor who recommends helping young (and not so young) anglers out by helping retrieve fouled floats and tackle.


    Having said all that I am still striving hard to reach an enlightened state of tolerance for jetskiers.

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    The unfortunate reality is that anglers are much better organised and much more prepared to take action, to further their own interests, than canoeists.

    This is exemplified by the lack of action by our peak body, the BCU, through to lack of response by individual canoeists when invited to participate in various campaigning actions, like letter writing, protest paddling and so on.

    There are willing participants on this forum, but until many, many more take up the struggle, success is doubtful.
    But Doug, the hierachy of the BCU need to maintain cordial relations with the Government and the Angling Trust. They are going into meetings with these guys all the time, and I think it is perfectly understandable and correct that they should refrain from rocking the canoe too heavily.

    If the campaign is to be successful, then it must come from grass roots support. Individuals who are pissed off, and have decided to put their concerns into either writing or action. Solicitor canoests are obviously particularly valuable contributors to the cause.

    Anglers are no less disorganised than canoeists, and they have no less grass roots support.

    I suggest that independent citizens should start being awkward. That is my recommended solution to this problem.

  60. #60
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    Anglers have funding. Big funding; and canoeists do not. It is that simple. Justice is a commodity purchased by the highest bidder and always has been. After all they call it law school not justice school. Nowhere in the job description does it say that lawyers and judges dish out justice. They interpret law. Laws are made by those with funding. Those that interpret the law are supposed to generate income for their firm and judges have loyalties and obligations beyond the idealistic oaths of state.

    It is the same over here of course with the rich salmon fishermen but we have the navigable waterways act and since the canoe was also a vehicle of commerce, almost everything is considered navigable.
    Lloyd

    Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...


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