Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 60 of 76

Thread: posting on angling forums?????

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,089

    Default posting on angling forums?????

    (I'm just thinking out loud here rather than suggesting this is a good idea) but it just struck me as to whether it would be a good/bad idea to post some of our thoughts on angling forums. Just to let them know we mean business and so they can get used to the idea that canoes and canoeists aren't going to go away. Angling clubs and other angling related bodies seem on the whole reluctant to meet in person with anyone they feel may be a threat to their sole claim on the rivers. It may be the only way to have some meaningful dialogue with 'day to day' anglers rather than the Landowner/angler who's view can be a tad one sided This like any forum is free to view by anyone so angling folk are seeing the frustration we all feel, building in the form of the various campaigns running at the moment.
    Just a thought,
    Paul.
    Last edited by paulsmith; 8th-March-2011 at 08:38 PM. Reason: spellcheck

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Good idea Paul, you're nominated, there's loads of them

    I "launched" my canoe in my local fishing lake so that's rather cool!

    I made my canoe with the intension of fishing from it too, angling seasons permitting, so I have a foot in both camps so to speak, but why I need two licences to use the same bit of water I'll never know.

    One thing I learned very quickly is this, another Angler will not give you any help, tips or advice about catching fish, tackle set-up, baits etc so why would they even bother to listen to a canoeist?

    Anglers hate Canoeists
    Canoeists hate Anglers
    Anglers AND Canoeists hate Kayakers

    Why can't all just get along on the water.

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    westyorks
    Posts
    574

    Default

    when I go on the canal i never have a problem with anglers and get lots of tackle out of tress.
    But on the river that's a different thing
    work that out ?

    mick

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,089

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post

    Why can't all just get along on the water.

    Vik
    Many yonks ago we used to camp at Rudyard lake in Staffs. In the mornings we would fish and curse the dinghies tacking too close to the bank. In the afternoon we would sail and tack as close to the anglers as possible. In a strange way it felt like we were getting our own back
    Paul.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,089

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mickcave View Post
    when I go on the canal i never have a problem with anglers and get lots of tackle out of tress.
    But on the river that's a different thing
    work that out ?

    mick
    I thing anglers on canals just know other water users to be around. They have also realised that a large boat passing with a prop stirs up the bottom and attracts fish rather than scaring them away. But I do get the impression they really feel the canals were built for the benefit of anglers rather than boats.
    Paul.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    Many yonks ago we used to camp at Rudyard lake in Staffs. In the mornings we would fish and curse the dinghies tacking too close to the bank. In the afternoon we would sail and tack as close to the anglers as possible. In a strange way it felt like we were getting our own back
    Paul.
    Ha, best of both then?

    Yep, it's a funny ol' World.....................usually

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Parkdale
    Posts
    97

    Default

    It may be the only way to have some meaningful dialogue with 'day to day' anglers rather than the Landowner/angler who's view can be a tad one sided
    I think you would need to craft your posts very carefully to avoid them appreaing provocative. The anglers will probably see the posts as trolling, no pun intended.

    In the past I've seen motorists posting on cycling forums and vica versa and I've never seen either party resolve any issues, but the posts become inflammatory very quickly.
    Last edited by thames; 8th-March-2011 at 11:41 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,794

    Default

    some fishing forums have a section for canoes as well.

    Sea Fishing Kayaks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Don't waste your 'breath'. I'm saying this as a canoeist who spends a lot of time angling; Even my angling 'friends' won't listen to me, so a stranger on a forum is likely just be be the spark for a flame war. Anyway send us the link !

    Wilf
    Bacon sarnie anyone ?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    Just wondering if alerting Anglers at this stage might lead to them posting negative comments on 38 Degrees?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by wilf_williams View Post
    Don't waste your 'breath'. I'm saying this as a canoeist who spends a lot of time angling; Even my angling 'friends' won't listen to me, so a stranger on a forum is likely just be be the spark for a flame war. Anyway send us the link !

    Wilf
    There must be loads of us on here that fish, and loads of anglers that canoe or even kayak if they really must?

    Can't SotP have a "breakaway" side forum and we can invite similar minded anglers to it by joining and posting on angling forums? Trolling? Not to savvy with the term.

    There are some combined forums"out there" but it might be a start to something great and wonderful?

    Get us all under "one forum roof" so to speak thus giving us all more power to try and sort this out?.............and why do I have to pay twice to use the same water?

    What do other countries do about this "problem"?

    But by far, the most serious question on here is "Bacon sarnie anyone ?" and my answer is definitely, YES PLEASE Wilf

    Vik

    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdew99 View Post
    Just wondering if alerting Anglers at this stage might lead to them posting negative comments on 38 Degrees?
    Not if we get there 1st in both ways.

    Start a campaign to share and at the same time invite them to the table to talk?

    "Angling is one of the most popular sports in the UK, with an estimated 3.3 million people participating in the sport on a regular basis."

    Most of us are paying to fish UK waters and on top of that pay club fees/day tickets to use the water too.

    How many canoeists and kayakers are there in the UK? What do we pay if indeed we all do? I can't find figures for that.

    Vik

    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Oxfordshire
    Posts
    2,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Most of us are paying to fish UK waters and on top of that pay club fees/day tickets to use the water too.

    How many canoeists and kayakers are there in the UK? What do we pay if indeed we all do? I can't find figures for that.
    Perhaps I'm missing something but aren't anglers paying for the privilege of sitting on someone's land and taking something from the water?

    Canoeists do neither but I'm sure they would not have a problem paying a launching fee if it meant crossing private land to get to the water if no public place was available.

    If I was a land owner I wouldn't object to either but I would like some reinbursement proportional to the amount of time the person spent on my property. A one off fee for launching or a pay per hour if staying.
    Bootstrap
    There's no such thing as inclement weather - you're just incorrectly dressed

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    How many canoeists and kayakers are there in the UK? What do we pay if indeed we all do? I can't find figures for that.
    The amount of money the EA spend on fisheries is more than they collect from rod licences so I am subsidising the pastime of angling through my exhorbitant taxes and still I get grief.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Anglers hate Canoeists
    Canoeists hate Anglers
    Anglers AND Canoeists hate Kayakers
    Even in jest, this is a travesty of the position. I certainly do not hate anglers although there is the occasional encounter which might upset me.

    I don't hate kayakers

    Just for information, I do dislike the sport of angling, it is unnecessary cruelty to innocent wildlife which should be banned by law. A bit like dog fighting, bear and bull baiting, cock fighting, hunting with hounds and common assault.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    The amount of money the EA spend on fisheries is more than they collect from rod licences so I am subsidising the pastime of angling through my exhorbitant taxes and still I get grief.
    Maths

    3.3 million UK anglers (if they all pay) x £25 (average) = £'sssssssssss per year.
    + bank side day ticket and also sometimes a club membership on top.

    We all pay taxes to things we dont like and also cant share either, but we still have to pay the, all the same.

    I don't have kids but I still subsidies those that do, by paying for schools for example.

    But see whats happening now? This thread only started @ 9:37 YESTERDAY and we're at it all ready...................This is doomed from the start!

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,969

    Default EA Expenditure

    Adrian
    Can you point at the published information which shows we are subsidising angling?

    This is a powerful argument...
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    How many canoeists and kayakers are there in the UK? What do we pay if indeed we all do? I can't find figures for that.

    Vik
    We pay taxws with subsidiuses the EA to a great amount. Fish Licences etc is only a tiny amout of the overs money they get.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Just for information, I do dislike the sport of angling, it is unnecessary cruelty to innocent wildlife which should be banned by law. A bit like dog fighting, bear and bull baiting, cock fighting, hunting with hounds and common assault.
    We all have an opinion on everything and we are all free to express it/them, it doesn't make them right though..................in my opinion

    Nice to see that I am "lumped" in with such good company, think I'll buy a bear, a dog, a bull, a cock, a horse and a hound on my way to the Post Office to renew, yet again my rod licence................Note to self, check the Post Office if I need to licence the animals above too!

    Better put by this;

    The thing about opinions is they are unique, and deeply personal. To know someone's opinions on issues is to know bits of the person's psyche. To tell someone their opinions are wrong, or stupid, is to tell them there is really something wrong with them, with who they are.
    Now, that's not to say that opinions can't be changed. Of course they can, politicians strive to change our opinions, as do advertisers, friends, and families. They each appeal to a specific part of our psyche.
    Usually it's that insecure part that tells us we aren't smart or rich or good-looking enough. We listen because we hope the person trying to change our opinion has the profound truth.
    And sometimes they do. Sometimes we learn something new, something redeeming, which nourishes our mind and broadens our horizons. Something that challenges our thoughts and forces us to grow.
    Sometimes all we learn is how the other person's mind works. The process of forming an opinion is as telling as the opinion itself.
    It is just one more of the many facets of humanity worth celebrating. Our differences are what make us individual, INCLUDING our opinions.
    The day we cease to respect the opinions of others is the day we cease to respect the individuality of that person.
    And when we fail to respect fellow humans as individuals, do we not lose a bit of our humanity?

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    We pay taxws with subsidiuses the EA to a great amount. Fish Licences etc is only a tiny amout of the overs money they get.
    Do we, and is it?

    Do you have numbers to support this claim?

    This "tiny" amount is 3.3 million x £ 25 = £82.5 million British pounds per YEAR

    Even if only half the anglers buy a licence it's still £41,000,000 per year!

    Not that tiny is it?

    What is the amount that canoeists and kayakers pay per year?

    I for one will be paying BOTH mine.......................just to fish the very same water!


    Vik


    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bob View Post
    Perhaps I'm missing something but aren't anglers paying for the privilege of sitting on someone's land and taking something from the water?
    Salmon and Trout take fish away and yes, pay on top for that ie licence fee and river/lake use fee.

    Coarse fishing, anglers return the fish to the water, again having paid a licence fee and river membership/day ticket.

    The licence is for owning and using the rods, the other is for using the water/s

    Vik
    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Having some difficulty obtaining information and the format seems to have been changed from previous years but for 2009-10, the report has a comment on page 12 re grant aid to make up deficits

    http://publications.environment-agen...10BSVK-e-e.pdf


    Current year for Wales is similar to how the figures were previously reported and shows high level of grant for 'fisheries' see page 33

    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...ts_2009_10.pdf

    I will dig a little deeper to see what else I can pick up. I am sure the position will not have changed significantly from the previous year.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Old news but still news

    http://blog.fitnessfootwear.com/grif...rbing-anglers/

    Griff Rhys Jones Promotes Canoeing and Disturbing Anglers
    On July 24, 2009, in Articles, Vibram five fingers, Watersports Shoes, by admin
    Griff Rhys Jones has declared open season on anglers as his canoeing series ‘River Journeys’ begins on BBC One.

    He has further risked offending anglers by saying “if a man gently paddling a canoe down a river is a disturbance, then long live that disturbance”.

    Naturally, these remarks have caused offense with the Anglers Association, but Jones has also expressed his belief that “the river isn’t there for a few, but for the many.”

    In the new BBC series, which sees Jones donning a pair of Vibram Five Fingers before rowing his canoe along the hidden waterwats of Great Britain aims to reveal the secrets of the British rivers while promoting the sport of canoeing.

    “I am a supporter of all angling associations and thoroughly respect the rights of fishermen to peacefully fish on riverbanks, but I am also a great supporter of canoeists and want to see as much access to the rivers of England and Wales as is readily available in Scotland and much of the rest of the world,” said Jones in defense of his earlier comments.

    River Journeys begins on BBC One from Sunday 26 July. A must see for Canoeing enthusiasts!
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Sir Ian Botham defends anglers after attack by Griff Rhys Jones 2009

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/591...hys-Jones.html

    By Simon Johnson 3:33PM BST 26 Jul 2009
    The former England all-rounder and keen angler said the comments showed Rhys Jones knows little about the countryside and the benefits of fishing for Britain's rivers.
    He predicted the remarks will lead to "an incident" between canoeists and anglers, and even that the latter could end up taking the presenter to court.
    Rhys Jones insisted his comments had been misinterpreted, but that he had no regrets about standing up to the fishing lobby.
    The controversy was triggered by an article in the BBC's Countryfile magazine, in which he complained that large stretches of river have been taken over by anglers at the expense of canoeists.
    The broadcaster, whose new series, Rivers, started on BBC1 on Sunday, argued that fishermen should be disturbed because the UK's waterways are not "there for a few, but for the many".
    RELATED ARTICLES
    Griff Rhys Jones angers anglers 22 Jul 2009
    However, an angry Sir Ian responded: "This man needs to stay in his little town and not come anywhere near rivers because he obviously doesn't have a clue about what's going on in the countryside.
    "I am shocked that a man who has made a programme for the BBC about rivers can come out with this sort of garbage. He seems not to appreciate all the good work anglers do for our rivers."
    The 53-year-old added: "I think his stupid remarks are pretty irresponsible and when there's an incident, and there will be an incident, because of him telling canoeists to disturb fishermen, then let it be on his hands and let the salmon fishermen sue him."
    Canoeists and boat owners have access to 41,000 of the 150,000 miles of British rivers, while landowners and private anglers own the banks and parts of the water along many waterways.
    In a spiky riposte, Rhys Jones stood by the comments, but said they had been published as a series of quotes instead of the "continuous piece" he had intended.
    "Dear me, Sir Ian, this is getting aggravating. I am beginning to think that fishermen seem to like pursuing red herrings," he said.
    "(I said) that I am strongly against canoeing in shallow rivers during spawning times. And that I want to travel down legally navigable rivers in peace without fishermen grumbling about it."
    Claiming that his call to disrupt anglers was a joke, he added: "On navigable rivers, you see, Sir Ian, canoeists have the right to disturb as many people as they want because they actually disturb nobody - geddit?"
    Although not an expert, he said had recently written a book on river systems and had a basic knowledge of the subject.
    Rhys Jones concluded: "I do believe that anglers should stop banning access to a natural resource. If that is arrogant, so be it."
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default I wonder what these guys would think of all this?

    I wonder what these guys would think of all this?



    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Monmouthshire
    Posts
    567

    Default

    The rod licence is an unfair tax and should be abolished. If it had been 37p it would have gone the way of the dog-licence because it is equally pointless.

    The work that the EA have to do on the rivers is required by law (eg responsibilities under EU regs on bio-diversity and water quality.) They would still need to do things to improve the quality of our rivers regardless of whether people fish. They also have an underlying responsibility to maintain the fisheries.

    Maybe they do some specific works for angling on top of their statutory responsibilities using the rod licence money, but I am not sure what they would be.

    1.4million rod licences were sold in 2008/2009, of which 400,000 ish were only day licences.

    The EA would love extend the unfair rod licence model to derive income from paddlers using rivers. I have heard there is already a proposal to charge hire companies £200 per boat on stretches of the Wye where there is a statutory right of navigation. How long before they try to extend this to recreational users?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hebrides
    Posts
    3,253

    Default

    I watched all the programmes that Griff R-J did and I think that anyone who saw the comment about disturbing fishermen as anything other than a cheeky bit of humour to make a point must have had a serious humour bypass.

    What followed was a lot of opportunistic journalists taking advantage to make a bit of controversy. In some of the interviews with the fishing lobby it was clearly evident that the spokespersons had not seen the programmes but were just presented with the "incriminating phrase" by the interviewer in a way that it implied "incitement to wilfully disturb fishermen" which it clearly wasn't.

    The media just like stirring things up and are not really interested in the real issues.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Robin Hoods Tree



    I was born 4 miles away from Robin Hoods Tree (debatable) and I am still paying taxes. So fighting the Big Bad Sheriff was, and is, a waste of time.

    Benjamin Franklin;
    Certainty? In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

    Lets all get on, experience everything life has to offer, and enjoy life while we are still young and able enough to do them!

    If "they" try to stop you, do it anyway!

    It's just like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog.


    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post

    I was born 4 miles away from Robin Hoods Tree (debatable) and I am still paying taxes. So fighting the Big Bad Sheriff was, and is, a waste of time.
    Is paying taxes such a bad thing? There are loads of services which people are currently hung up about being cut all of which need to be paid for somehow.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Having some difficulty obtaining information and the format seems to have been changed from previous years but for 2009-10, the report has a comment on page 12 re grant aid to make up deficits

    http://publications.environment-agen...10BSVK-e-e.pdf


    Current year for Wales is similar to how the figures were previously reported and shows high level of grant for 'fisheries' see page 33

    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...ts_2009_10.pdf

    I will dig a little deeper to see what else I can pick up. I am sure the position will not have changed significantly from the previous year.
    Found it, see pages 41-42 on the first document, deficit on fisheries operations £11.1 million against an income of £25.8 million. Fisheries are being subsidised by over 40%. Of course, as Shanclan says, some of this work is probably a statutory requirement but why is that?

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Do we, and is it?

    Do you have numbers to support this claim?

    This "tiny" amount is 3.3 million x £ 25 = £82.5 million British pounds per YEAR

    Even if only half the anglers buy a licence it's still £41,000,000 per year!

    Not that tiny is it?

    What is the amount that canoeists and kayakers pay per year?

    I for one will be paying BOTH mine.......................just to fish the very same water!
    If the EA only collect £25m there must be a lot of people fishing without a licence.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    If the EA only collect £25m there must be a lot of people fishing without a licence.
    And a lot of canoeists paddling without a licence too I dare say!

    But like I said before, I will pay twice just to use the same bit of water to canoe and fish along.

    ONLY £25,000,000?............at least it's something.

    How many canoeists/kayakers are there in the UK using rivers (you can't count "fisheries" as they are just that, a lake for anglers and not a river) and how much do they pay/raise for river use per year? They park at a riverside, launch from a riverbank.

    My fishing licence enables me to fish rivers but I never have and most don't either, I only use fisheries (lakes) that are obviously designed for anglers only, so should canoeists have the right to paddle there too?

    Cyclists don't pay to use the roads, is this the same because they don't have a motor?

    But again, if canoeists don't get on, how are we supposed to get anglers on our side and fight for this right to access?

    Vik

    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  33. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    That Paul Smith has something to answer to now
    Just look at what he's stirred up!

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    It would be interesting to see a list of the benefits anglers would get if the Scotland access laws were adopted in England and Wales...

    Are there any?
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  35. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    What about a "Pay as you go" system.

    Like a parking meter, you pay from when you "put-in" or "cast out" to when you pack up?

    Should this be a "1st come 1st served" option too?

    Fair?

    Everyone happy with that?

    Revenue lost for when we don't use the rivers, lake, canals and countryside, we'd be in a right messed up state then!

    While I'm at it, can I have a rebate every time I don't watch the BBC too?

    I pay towards the Wildlife Trust, voluntarily, but I've not been to their sites yet so why bother paying????? Because it's not all about ME, it's all there for everyone, I just help a little with £5/month and because I care.

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  36. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    459

    Default

    What about a "Pay as you go" system.
    Pay who, and pay why? As mentioned we already pay a tax to the EA. Plus using a Canoe or kayak has no effect on the surrounding environment unlike fishing. A 'pay to use the rivers' system is totally nonsensical. Can you name me another country that does this? And if there is no other country that does this or feels a need to do this, why should we??

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stroud
    Posts
    849

    Default Back on topic?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    (I'm just thinking out loud here rather than suggesting this is a good idea) but it just struck me as to whether it would be a good/bad idea to post some of our thoughts on angling forums. Just to let them know we mean business and so they can get used to the idea that canoes and canoeists aren't going to go away. Angling clubs and other angling related bodies seem on the whole reluctant to meet in person with anyone they feel may be a threat to their sole claim on the rivers. It may be the only way to have some meaningful dialogue with 'day to day' anglers rather than the Landowner/angler who's view can be a tad one sided This like any forum is free to view by anyone so angling folk are seeing the frustration we all feel, building in the form of the various campaigns running at the moment.
    Just a thought,
    Paul.
    I did try once - I used a very transparent username - "Paddler" I think......

    They refused to let me join! They don't want to hear other people's views.... So I just ignore them on the rivers - don't want to offend!
    You don't stop playing because you get old - you get old because you stop playing.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stroud
    Posts
    849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Anglers hate Canoeists
    Canoeists hate Anglers
    Anglers AND Canoeists hate Kayakers

    Why can't all just get along on the water.

    Vik
    Luckily I suffer from a split personality - I only hate canoeists when they squash my kayak in the back of an eddy, and take delight in putting my canoe on the edge of the eddy avoiding the waiting kayaks.....

    Can I hate myself?
    You don't stop playing because you get old - you get old because you stop playing.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    fife
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch
    Anglers hate Canoeists
    Canoeists hate Anglers
    Anglers AND Canoeists hate Kayakers

    Why can't all just get along on the water.

    Vik
    so what your saying is that i should hate myself as i am all three of the above.
    Last edited by KeithD; 10th-March-2011 at 03:17 PM. Reason: fix quotes
    alan


    To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people just exist.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Devon
    Posts
    2,089

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    That Paul Smith has something to answer to now
    Just look at what he's stirred up!

    Vik
    I'll fetch me coat
    Paul

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Downriver from the Bywell bridge over the Tyne
    Posts
    3,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Cooper View Post
    Is paying taxes such a bad thing? There are loads of services which people are currently hung up about being cut all of which need to be paid for somehow.
    Taxes are too high now, just look at fuel and then compare that with the US or Aussie prices!!!! It sucks!!!

    "Pedal five hundred miles on a bicycle and you remain basically a bourgeois; paddle a hundred in a canoe and you are already a child of nature" - Pierre Trudeau

  42. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    Back to the original question. Posting on fishing forums is in my opinion a very very bad idea. It is simply trolling and generating a negative impression of canoeists (and this forum is we get a mention).

    Fishermen are not the enemy. Confusion over the law is the enemy We have nothing to discuss with fishermen they have nothing that we are seeking. We want the clarifying of the access lay and confirmation of our right to paddle any rivers in England and Wales. Fishermen cannot give us this and so are not part of the picture in any way.

    NB Fishermen, other genders are available
    Last edited by dougdew99; 10th-March-2011 at 06:35 AM.
    John

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Coventry (from Stoke on Trent)
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    I pay for a fishing licence
    I pay for a day ticket when I fish
    I pay for my Boat licence for British waterways
    These I pay for twice I pay for myself and my wife

    I would also pay for a licence for myself and my wife to canoe all rivers and I beleive it should be no more than the cost fishing licence or a reduction if you have both.
    I think a launch fee on rivers is unmanagable.

    Lakes are usally covered by a launch fee.
    Ratty (Russ)

    I know only that what is moral is you feel good after. What is immoral is what you feel bad after.
    Ernest Hemingway

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiKelly View Post
    Back to the original question. Posting on fishing forums is in my opinion a very very bad idea. It is simply trolling and generating a negative impression of canoeists (and this forum is we get a mention).

    Fishermen are not the enemy. Confusion over the law is the enemy We have nothing to discuss with fishermen they have nothing that we are seeking. We want the clarifying of the access lay and confirmation of our right to paddle any rivers in England and Wales. Fishermen cannot give us this and so are not part of the picture in any way.

    NB Fishermen, other genders are available
    John

    Thanks for setting this out so clearly, what you say makes perfect sense
    Doug Dew
    "The best is yet to come" My Father


  45. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Thanks for setting this out so clearly, what you say makes perfect sense
    It does and it doesn't. Remember that a lot of anglers are absolutely dead set against open access, and they have both a very loud voice in political circles as well as a lot of financial backing to attempt to scupper the cause.

  46. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Lochwinnoch, Scotland
    Posts
    17,244

    Default

    Yes many are dead against it but even if you convinced them all they still can't give us what we want. We need to convince the government and we need to do it above the objections from any group. If you can convince 1000 fishermen or one politician, pick the politician every time.
    John

  47. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Poitiers, France
    Posts
    77

    Default

    I read this thread with great interest.
    In France, I run times to times in a grumpy fisherman. Not that much, they are usually nice, and respond to my hello and waving.
    Yes I wave and say hello to everyone on the bank, even when I'm training hard (it helps me take my breath )
    Waters here are "free" but in the meantime banks are often private, and so the land underneath the waters.

    I reckon fishing fees are meant to restrain the ecological pressure.
    The main difference between a paddler and an angler is the ability to remove life from the water.
    That means a lot, doesn't it ?

  48. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer View Post
    so what your saying is that i should hate myself as i am all three of the above.
    Count me in for two of them
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  49. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW View Post
    Pay who, and pay why? As mentioned we already pay a tax to the EA. Plus using a Canoe or kayak has no effect on the surrounding environment unlike fishing. A 'pay to use the rivers' system is totally nonsensical. Can you name me another country that does this? And if there is no other country that does this or feels a need to do this, why should we??
    Pay like the anglers do to use the river.

    I would gladly pay £27 to use them. As an off side, anglers don't have rights to all rivers either, they have to be members of rather exclusive clubs sometimes.

    I don't want owt for free!


    To get anglers on our side why not help to get them free access too
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  50. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
    I pay for a fishing licence
    I pay for a day ticket when I fish
    I pay for my Boat licence for British waterways
    These I pay for twice I pay for myself and my wife

    I would also pay for a licence for myself and my wife to canoe all rivers and I beleive it should be no more than the cost fishing licence or a reduction if you have both.
    I think a launch fee on rivers is unmanagable.

    Lakes are usally covered by a launch fee.
    I'm with you on ALL the above Brother Ratty

    .
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  51. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bucks
    Posts
    6,902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
    Taxes are too high now, just look at fuel and then compare that with the US or Aussie prices!!!! It sucks!!!
    Of course taxes come from a variety of sources some will influence some people more than others. On the basis that we are having to deal with an enormous deficit by way of cuts in services, one might argue that taxes are, overall, not enough. It is not an argument I would support.

  52. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulsmith View Post
    I'll fetch me coat
    Paul

    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  53. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    Who pays what in angling and canoeing

    Angling and fisheries interests claim they solely contribute for the environmental upkeep of inland waters and that canoeists and other users do not. This is incorrect.

    Anglers are required by law in England and Wales to have a rod licence for angling that partly funds the Agency fisheries function to fulfil their powers and duties under the Environment Act 1995. The Agency is required to enforce the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act – to include overseeing and regulating the management of fisheries, promoting angling, stocking, welfare of fish stocks, control of alien species and river management regimes and the related practices of angling. There are two classes of rod licence:

    • Course and trout –
    • Salmon and Sea Trout

    The income from licence sales is supplemented by Grant in Aid to fully fund the Agency fisheries function.

    Funding to maintain and improve the water environment comes from a wide range of sources. Society as a whole significantly contributes directly and indirectly.

    Currently only 1.2 million licences are purchased each year ... this figure includes annual, weekly and day tickets etc

    Canoeing cannot be equated with angling (the taking of fish) when canoeists do not need the requirements of anglers. The mechanisms and arrangements for angling required by the law and negotiated by anglers are not transferable to other recreation.

    For the taking of fish In England and Wales, freshwater anglers are required by law to have a Rod Licence issued by the Environment Agency. Approximately 1.2 million rod licences for course and trout fishing are sold per annum. In part, Rod Licence income funds the Environment Agency Fisheries function that has a statutory obligation to protect and replenish fish stocks by policing the activities of anglers and fisheries owners, and generally enhance fisheries.

    Further funding for the Agency’s fisheries function is Grant in Aid (GIA) sourced from general taxation. GIA for fisheries totals £9 million and is totally dedicated to salmon and sea trout. This amounts to a 90% subsidy from taxpayers, as income from the sale of salmon rod licenses is £1.3 million at approx £60 per license i.e some 21,000 anglers. Salmon fisheries are invariably in private ownership and no other water based interest and related activity (angling in this case) is subsidised at 90% from the public purse. Access to salmon rivers by other users is invariably strongly resisted.

    The Rod Licence apart, anglers can chose not to pay and are able to fish free of charge at many locations to include the R Thames downstream of Staines to the estuary, plus numerous other places around the country. Many of these places are well known for their good quality, quantity of fish stocks and range of species. Some are used as venues for high profile fishing matches.

    Anglers can also chose to pay at other places for services to facilitate angling - stocking to make good the taking of fish; club bailiffs to police anglers and angling practices, protect fish stocks from poaching and predation; bank clearance; maintaining and creating swims, fishing platforms and other facilities to include toilets.

    Neither are canoeists in occupation, but in transit just as a walker is on a footpath alongside a river. Anglers pay as they are in what is best described as occupation of a specific bank for the duration of their activity, just as anyone else would do so, such as for a car park or campsite.

    Canoeists do pay like other boaters where there is a service provided such as on the Environment Agency navigations, British Waterways river navigations and canal system, Broads Authority and many other navigations. Where there are no services i.e. R Wye, R Severn - boaters do not pay.


    Thought the above might make some sense of the myths being put out

  54. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cleveland, UK
    Posts
    442

    Default

    Or to put it another way.

    "I'm already paying, via tax etc, I just want to use the facility I've helped fund.

  55. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    It just seems canoeists want free access to rivers and still expect anglers to do the same and keep paying?

    I am prepared to pay to both, yes even to fish from a canoe and pay for the same water twice. I just would like the access.

    Canoes launch from a bank side dont they?

    Canoeists visit the bank side with trowel in hand and leave a little "deposit" don't they?

    Canoeists brew up on the bank side too and eat there.

    Unfortunately in this World theres nothing free anymore

    What other countries do is of no concern in this "argument" at all, do you want ALL their laws here too?

    So, I will watch with interest but like "They" say.............."I'm out" Good luck with it though, Anglers and Canoeists will it seems always fight like Cat & Dog!

    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  56. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    stalkperch, you seem to once again miss the point. Please read the thread above. We do pay through our taxes to help the EA.

    It just seems canoeists want free access to rivers and still expect anglers to do the same and keep paying?
    Rod Licence income funds the Environment Agency Fisheries function that has a statutory obligation to protect and replenish fish stocks by policing the activities of anglers and fisheries owners, and generally enhance fisheries.

    There was a suggestions once from fishermen that they should not pay a rod licence. (I'm fine with that as it won't affect me, as I am not looking to catch fish) but eventually fish stocks will fail if rivers are overfished and not put back.

    Your entitled to your opinion but it is the one fisherfolk always use that we do not pay, Well sorry but yes I do pay. I pay for your hobby in taxes so how about some access to the rivers we already pay for!

  57. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicky View Post
    stalkperch, you seem to once again miss the point. Please read the thread above. We do pay through our taxes to help the EA.



    Rod Licence income funds the Environment Agency Fisheries function that has a statutory obligation to protect and replenish fish stocks by policing the activities of anglers and fisheries owners, and generally enhance fisheries.

    There was a suggestions once from fishermen that they should not pay a rod licence. (I'm fine with that as it won't affect me, as I am not looking to catch fish) but eventually fish stocks will fail if rivers are overfished and not put back.

    Your entitled to your opinion but it is the one fisherfolk always use that we do not pay, Well sorry but yes I do pay. I pay for your hobby in taxes so how about some access to the rivers we already pay for!
    There is NO NEED TO BE RUDE OR ATTEMPT TO BE INFLAMMATORY with your "stalkperch" intro! Perhaps you should post on the Anglers Forums with your eloquent views and opinions? it'll be a great help to this cause.

    YES PLEASE TO ACCESS FOR ALL, BUT NO THANKS TO A FREE FOR ALL

    Who is taking fish out?...........Migratory Salmon and Trout anglers yes
    Coarse Fish NO.............well yes "some people" do like to eat them but tend to be Poachers and "friends" from abroad, who may have that freedom over there, but NOT OVER HERE!...........Also it's been said on here that we should adopt their laws and rules here too.......NO THANKS, NOT FOR ME........YOU GO OVER THERE PLEASE.

    I already pay:

    1 income tax
    2 National Insurance
    3 Rod licence
    4 Council tax
    5 Fuel Tax
    6 VAT
    7 Car tax
    8 Inheritance Tax
    9 Stamp Duty
    10 Insurance Premium Tax
    11 Airport Tax
    12 Capital Gains Tax
    13 TV licence
    14 Beer and Fags...........although a non smoker now
    ....and many, many more!...........but not always happily.

    WE ALL PAY TAXES, GEDDIT? you cant make a choice in the UK what you do and don't pay for, it's simply the Law HERE.

    Example: Before I became Canoeist I was paying for your Hobby in MY taxes. I pay towards the roads you drive on to get there, the car park you use, the repair to riverbanks you launch from etc, etc by the very same principals you use, but do I go on and on and on about it? No, I just accept that this is England (other UK Countries may have their own Law's?) and that they are the rules we have.

    Also, a point of fact for you, Anglers can't just set up and fish anywhere either even with a licence............NO, not fair but then there are other places we can fish. They can fish most tidal waters (River Thames inc) and most beaches too, licence FREE.............it's called "The Sea"

    Just one more question:

    Do You pay to advertise your T-Shirt Business link on here? I notice BOTH your signature links go to the same page of your business too...................If this is OK then, perhaps we all can advertise our businesses on here too? IT'LL HELP PAY OUR TAXES FOR SURE

    GREAT CARTOONS THOUGH!

    Last edited by Eddie Stalkperch; 11th-March-2011 at 10:11 AM.
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  58. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Stalkperch View Post
    Pay like the anglers do to use the river.

    I would gladly pay £27 to use them. As an off side, anglers don't have rights to all rivers either, they have to be members of rather exclusive clubs sometimes.

    I don't want owt for free!


    To get anglers on our side why not help to get them free access too
    Actually, I think that last point could be a smart move. (But I could be persuaded if anyone has any evidence either way that fish stocks and the environment absolutely require a rod tax to be sustainable.)

    I do already pay about £30 to the BCU for my license to navigate all those navigations. I know some canoeists don't, but I'm not keen on making it obligatory to pay for rivers that aren't maintained in some fashion. In fact I am far more interested in your suggestion that we should be campaigning for fishermen to get access for free. Is it not the case that the opposition to canoeists isn't anglers as a whole, but a few select clubs and landowners? Wouldn't some anglers (perhaps a lot?) support a campaign that offered to improve their access to rivers and streams?

    Anyway, keep the arguments coming; and remember that a few extremists apart there must be lots of anglers who can understand our position and they should be welcomed not attacked. It might seem amusing to talk of 'fish-botherers' but one isn't going to win any allies that way, and unless one is vegan it seems a little hypocritical.

    Let *everyone* enjoy their favoured sports responisbly without the government and bureaucracy and lawyers getting in the way.

    Ian

  59. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cuckney
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by idc View Post
    Let *everyone* enjoy their favoured sports responisbly without the government and bureaucracy and lawyers getting in the way.

    Ian
    Now this IS a Law worth fighting for!

    1 vote for Ian from me.

    Vik
    Click on my Mini-Me to visit my Blog


  60. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    717

    Default

    There is NO NEED TO BE RUDE OR ATTEMPT TO BE INFLAMMATORY with your "stalkperch" intro!
    Sorry I assumed that was your name as it is on the top of all your posts, I don't know you so don't know if it your name is different. I was not being rude or attempting to be inflammatory.

    My name is Andy, so there you go we can use that in future and we all know my name.

    We all pay taxes as adults (well hopefully) but we don't all get to use what we help to pay for. I pay for licence to paddle through the BCU but still only have access to certain places.

    The campaign is about fair access to rivers for all users in a responsible way. This will not lead to a free for all as is often used as an argument against us.

    I would be interested to here your thoughts on kayak fishing as well having coached a number of fishermen now they are also amazed at the reaction the sometime got when paddling on rivers with free open access (The old ditch known as the Mersey).

    One argument that kayaking disturbs fish does not hold up when report from places like the Tweed in Scotland show that fishing numbers have increased on rivers where people both fish, paddle, swim etc.
    It also does not hold up when you see the size of the things the kayak fishermen catch in there kayaks ande canoes.

    As for laws they are there to be changed so we will carry on campaigning....

    So, I will watch with interest but like "They" say.............."I'm out" Good luck with it though, Anglers and Canoeists will it seems always fight like Cat & Dog!
    Well good luck with your pastimes, I wish you well. I will carry on campaigning...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •