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Thread: Whos used/using the Solway dory expedition sailing rig

  1. #1
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    Default Whos used/using the Solway dory expedition sailing rig

    As the title suggests I'm looking for feed back on this rig, I quite like the simplicity of it, however it seems to make it work upwind you need to buy/make some accessories, the clip against the pivoting leeboard is a no brainer for me, an extra 20 well spent. The rudder is another matter, have people successfully used their paddle to steer with, or is a fixed rudder a better prospect ?

    Their side buoyancy bags, I must admit after seeing their video, especially if your thinking the west coast of Scotland, I'm thinking 2 of these may be a very sensible idea, I'd really like to hear other peoples experiences tho.

    Or did you go for their bigger rigs, the Bermudan looks like a really fun and fast rig, but its a lot of cash.

    I'd appreciate any comments.

    Cheers

    Stephen, Oh I have a MR Reflection 15.

  2. #2
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    The Open Canoe Sailing Club hasn't yet published the 2010 calendar... but the draft I've got does mention locations not so far from you: might be best to meet up with them all and see the various rigs in action!

    We've got the bermudan rig... but haven't had it out on the water yet: work to do... and no suitable sailing weather for our 5 year old since we made the purchase! We've also got the side airbags... but same story: reports to follow!!!

    FWIW, I've had a lot of very productive chats with Dave Stubbs and Dave Poskitt and have been most impressed: they've always come across as fellow enthusiasts who want to be helpful rather than as sales folk!

  3. #3
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    I'd love to see the leeboard when you get it Stephen, sounds an interesting design....
    Cheers,

    Alan


  4. #4
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    I considered the expedition rig but decided to go for the ballanced lug instead mainly because it gave better sailing performance. On Dave Stubbs advice I went for the rudder option. I would think if you are sailing down wind your paddle would give all the control you need but can imagine it would make sailing close hauled far more of a challenge especially if the wind is fairly strong.

    I've just got regular bow/stern air bags but the side bags are probably a good investment.

    This was our sailing trip. http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...es-on-Coniston

  5. #5
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    Hi

    I can only comment on their bermudan rig as that is what I use. I've used this on several day-long sails (some on fast tidal waters) and what I like about it is it's performance to windward. I'd be very disapointed if I couldn't make my way efficiently up-wind when i wanted to.

    Also very important (if you get onto open water) is the ability to reef quickly. The bermudan lends itself to this very well and still gives a reasonable performance when reefed.

    On the whole it's dead simple and efficient

    Regards

    Steve

  6. #6
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    Personally I've found steering with a bent shaft paddle to be far easier than with a standard straight paddle. The reason for this is because you can maintain a neutral course with it with your hands in a more natural position.

    If you're considering steering with a paddle, it would be well worth borrowing one with a bent shaft to try, just to see how you get on.
    The Canoeist's prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to walk the portages I must, The courage to run the rapids I can, And the wisdom to know the difference".

    John Muir Trust - Wild Places for Nature & People.

  7. #7

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    I have been wondering about a simple reaching and downwind rig for my solo canoe. Rather than needing a separate mast, it would use the two halves of a pole set up as a tripod about 4' back from the bows. Lines to the bows and gunnel would brace it.

    Then using a free software program from SailCut I could design a small asymmetric spinnaker. Cost very little to make and easy to sew on a standard machine. Sail cloth is too difficult to sew on most machines.



    Cutting it fairly flat would allow it to be used quite high on the wind. I figure if beating is required paddling would be quicker. The spinnaker would pack up very small about the size of a bag of sugar.

    Thanks for the tip about steering with a bent shaft type paddle, posted above.

    This keeps the canoe as a pure canoe which can also sail. Just the pole to carry and a very small bag with the sail in it.

    Fitting a small lug, or an Opi rig plus dagger board, rudder, long tiller, plus rudder makes the canoe a sailing canoe. When not sailing the gear fills the boat. The idea above is to keep the canoe as a 100% canoe when not sailing but be able to sail when the fancy takes you.

    Anybody already done this?

    BrianP
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 11th-March-2010 at 08:16 AM.

  8. #8

    Default loch ossian

    hi all sorry to jump in here i am not a paddler,although reading some of the post seems i might be missing out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my interest is in snow ghillie does he still use this site he used to live beside loch ossian as did myself from 1948 1968 there aint many people who have lived there and it would be good to hear from him or any one else once again apologies for the hijack regards

  9. #9

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    I've sailed a lot with a Solway Dory Bermudan, and a little with a Solway Dory Expedition Rig.

    The original Expedition Rig evolved out of a discussion I had with Dave Stubbs about my plans to do my 5* assessment. The priority in the design was that the rig needed to pack into a 6' long bag so that it could be stowed when paddling down rivers. The resulting Expedition Rig offers much better performance than any other "paddlers rig" I am aware of, but is a long way short of a Bermudan rig, particularly upwind.

    The Bermudan rig is simply superb, when combined with a rudder and pivoting leeboard it turns your canoe into a proper sailing boat.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post

    Anybody already done this?

    BrianP
    Yes, I used a small prototype assymetric spinnaked made up specifically for a canoe.

    It was very poor and never made it into production. Assymetric spinnakers don't set well when running straight down wind, and canoes don't go fast enough for it to be a viable option to tack down wind in the way that a 49er sailing dinghy does.

    Symetrical spinnakers are a better option, but limit you to sailing fairly close to straight down wind.

    I think you make a very valid point about it being faster to paddle when travelling directly up wind. I have beaten paddlers when tacking to windward in a sailing canoe, but only in a sailing canoe with a bermudan rig, pivoting lee board and rudder.

  11. #11
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    I think we have seen the essential decision already highlighted in this thread. What is the intended usage?

    If you want really good sailing performance then you cannot beat one of the purpose designed rigs, such as the Solway Dory Bermudan rig with lee board and rudder. I had one fitted by John Bull many years ago to my Reflection 15 and it converted the boat into a true sailing vessel, but as already has been said, when NOT sailing, there is a lot of gear to stow AND you need to have some sailing ability as well!

    Oceanic, I think we met some time ago and we discussed your expedition rig, I was highly impressed, particularly with its relatively small pack size, while maintaining efficiency, so if looking to keep a canoe a canoe, but with still good sailing ability, then this would be of preference maybe?

    However, there is the third option involving the lesser options of Downwind sailing kits as made by Blutack and also Endless River, these also give quite good down wind performance, are simple to carry and rig and quick to break down and stow.

    For me, I am not a dedicated canoe sailor, the purpose of the canoe is to use it in all its variations, which includes, portaging, wading, lining/tracking, paddling,polling/snubbing and where possible, sailing, so I opted for the smaller more improvised of rigs.

    If however I wanted better sailing ability, without incurring to much additional kit, I would chose the expedition rig.

    that being said, it is very good advice to go to an OCSG meet and look at all their varieties!

    Happy Sailing!

    (From a very non paddling/sailing Jordan!)

    Alan L.

  12. #12

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    Todd Bradshaw's book "Canoe Rig: The Essence and the Art is a wonderful resource for adding a rig to a canoe.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canoe-Rig-Es.../dp/0937822574

    On page 51 he illustrates a handy asymetric spinnaker which could be set on a half a canoe pole and would make a handy rig with little intrusion when stored.

    I wrote to Todd about making such a sail and his reply was interesting. He said he actually saw a rig sailing which he thinks would be better. He saw one in action I was standing on the shore of Lake Superior on a windy, cold day and I watched a couple make a two-mile, island-to-mainland crossing in a Klepper kayak under sail. Hecouldn't believe anyone was out sailing a kayak in those conditions and was amazed at how much control they seemed to have.

    The rig is a Balogh Twins, a smaller version of the downwind Tradewind rigs used by Yachtsmen.

    http://www.baloghsaildesigns.com/twins.html

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 27th-March-2010 at 06:28 AM.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the replies guys, I was out with a bunch of guys at Loch Lomond at the weekend, Josh was there with his clinker build McGregor, the more I see it the more I want to build one.

    I'll be booking a RYA course at Port Edgar (Forth bridge), probably when the Forth is a bit warmer tho seems there's a bit of this involved.
    I've started looking at other ways to get started to see if I like it, DIY and second hand dinghy gear, and I believe the OSCG are up at Loch Lomond fairly soon.

    Cheers

    Stephen

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gailainne View Post
    I believe the OSCG are up at Loch Lomond fairly soon.
    Full events calendar now published: see http://homepages.rya-online.net/ocsg...ent_events.htm

    30 May - 4 June - Loch Leven
    27 - 31 Aug - Loch Lomond
    Hoping to make one or both: just a tad concerned about the for the latter date

    ps. Was it you that Shewie spotted? See: http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...mond-yesterday

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregandGinaS View Post
    ps. Was it you that Shewie spotted? See: http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...mond-yesterday
    Nope it was me taking the photos beside him, very impressive I must say, I'll download a couple and post them on his thread.

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