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Thread: 2 sheet twisted build with pics

  1. #1
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    Default 2 sheet twisted build with pics

    Hi All,


    I finally got some pics together from my build. It is a two sheet twisted ply over a simple frame of solid spruce/fir/pine (whatever is available).

    You may have seen me post already on xhairs' build blog as we are doing the same canoe. The plans are from :

    http://www.sloejd-kbh.dk/tema/skibe/Kano_GB/Canoe.html

    however the link just disappeared in the last week. I happened to have make a Word Doc of the plans for reference so I have them; if anyone wants them I can e-mail them or make a post.

    The main centre rib, bow, stern and foresheets are cut from 22mm exterior ply. I used 3/4". I used PL Premium construction adhesive (similar to gorilla glue but in a caulking format and surfaces don't have to be wetted) for joints and clamped or screwed according to judgement.













    Here are the stems and centre rib and foresheets attached to inner keel.







    Here the four sections of 4mm ply attached to the inner keel and temporarily held in place with jigs and string.







    How the joints come together at the intersection of the centre rib and inner keel.





    built canoe in my temporary shelter with resin and glass.



    With paint.




    Working on the inner hull.

    I decided to take out all the screws that seemed reasonable and fill with resin filler before glassing over the joints. I since painted the inside and foresheets light grey and am leaving the gunnels natural with clear finish. I am building webbed seats of oak with tie down straps from the dollar store and brass furniture nails on the underside. I will add a centre thwart or yoke for ease of carrying even though the plans don't call for it. I will post the finished canoe pics in a couple of days.

    Initial build took 2 days with around $100 CDN. spent. For resin, glass and paint I am around another $100, so total is around $200. Canadian Tire had a summer sale on paddles for $16.00 (made in Canada)so I figured why not and bought one to get me out on the water. I will post those finished pics and let you know either way. Thanks for looking.
    Last edited by jamie7; 8th-July-2009 at 04:17 PM. Reason: pic problems
    The more I learn the less I know

  2. #2
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    Default

    awesome mate...

    it's good to see another one built... i was begining to wonder why i seemed to be the only one to use this design...

    you seem to have followed the plans to the letter with the string and the wooden 'c clamps' when pulling up the ply... did you have any problems here and also where the ply joined along the center rib...?

    my boat now has two fixed seats, but i'm not going to put in a yoke to carry it... as it is it's nice and light and it will only get in the way...


    i'd like to see a few pictures of it on the water when your done... and a review of how it handles and it's general stability... i've only been out in 16' plastic hire boats so have wondered about its smoother shape... and the fact that there seems to be less of a flat bottom than in the ones i've paddled...


    glad to see you found my blog a help rather than a hinderance...


    enjoy...
    Xhairs...

  3. #3
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    Default

    Hi Xhairs,


    The centre rib area seemed easy compared to the inner keel near the end. There, as I brought up the ply I was afraid of the screws splitting out the inner keel. That it didn't crack was very lucky. I added an outer keel strip because I have a feeling this one is going to weave on the water. I've tried about every kind and size of canoe and I like the wood ones the best - they are very light and manoueverable as they ride high in the water. I've done a fair bit of extended portaging in Algonquin Park (Ontario) with 70lb packs and a canoe so I'm adding a centre thwart because I don't know how I could portage alone comfortably without one. If I tie a strap around it I can support the weight of the canoe on my head and just balance with the arms.

    I'm with you on the design - nice curved hull and no plank lines. Can't wait to get out on the water and get back to you.

    Best
    The more I learn the less I know

  4. #4
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    South Lakes
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    Default

    Nice build. Hope it's goo to paddle too.

    TGB
    May the gentleness of morning, greet your silent passage through endless waters...

    May all your winds be gentle. And for ww - May it rain the night before.

  5. #5
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    Default hope it floats

    Thanks TGB, that makes two of us!



    Best
    The more I learn the less I know

  6. #6
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    Default

    I built a canoe on similar lines in 86 but it was more for racing. It was 21 ft long and fairly rounded hull which made it very tippy but very fast. The corners where the sheets meet are difficult to fare into a good shape. Mine met about 2/3 back which helped it to look like a racing canoe.I also built the front with one sheet so I did'nt have to join it along the keel.and the same at the stern. I used a 6 inch wide strip of pyl to join the two halves with clinched copper nails.
    You have done a great job there I hope it paddles a well as it looks

  7. #7
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    Default cruben's canoe

    Hi Cruben,


    Thanks for kudos. Your canoe from 86 sounds cool. Was it symetrical? For that front third do you mean you bent one sheet all the way around the hull from gunnel to gunnel? That sounds like a good challenge. And 21 feet? Nice! I think I'd like to do a canvas on wood frame next and when I can afford it or the price of cedar goes down I want to try a stripper. Good to hear from you.


    Best
    Last edited by jamie7; 10th-July-2009 at 03:39 PM.
    The more I learn the less I know

  8. #8
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    Default

    Hi Jamie7
    Sorry I don't have any pictures, but I did bend one sheet right round from one gunnel to the other. The front was 10 foot long with another 4 added to take it to the widest point and I think I cut it back about 30 inches to allow it to flaten at the bow, inserting a wooden stem to attach it to for the first 24 inches only leaving the bow ply to ply. This gave a very fine and light bow A ply insert was added at gunnel level to deck it in for about 3 foot to add strength and act as buoyancy when it was sealed with a bulkhead and likewise at the stern,. the gunnels where only 1 inch qudraint inside and out . I used a few thawarts to hold the shape and as seat rests, though you could'nt sit in it or you would capsize It had to be paddled in full racing position ( one knee one foot in line)or sitting on the floor. While in the racing position as we tried it out for the first time my partner fell out of the front and the canoe righted its self while I held a paddle brace in the back, it was unbelivable but very funny.
    The construction did'nt need any major ribs or keel which helped to cut down on weight. Its amazing just how strong a bent sheet of ply is.
    I think you should go for the canvas next. My first kayak was a lath and canvas one then later I built kayaks in ply, Its a very cheap and sucessful method.
    But the stripper would be a work of art and something to treasure.You have to decide which one then go for it.
    good luck with your next project whatever it is
    cruben

  9. #9
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    Default

    That's really impressive and very clever, nice job

  10. #10
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    Jun 2009
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    Hamilton ON, Canada
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    Default thanks

    Hi Rapidboy,

    Thanks. It was a fast and easy build. I would recommend it to anyone interested. Two days to build and about a week glassing and finishing doesn't get much simpler than that. In the 16hrs between recoats of paint I had time to build seats and daydream about canoeing. I'm installing the seats and thwart today so I'll get some pics of her on the water posted in a day or so.

    Cheers
    The more I learn the less I know

  11. #11

    Default nearly there

    Hi Guys
    Well I'm nearly there too, just got the seats to make, glass the joints and paint her up. I should get most, if not all that done today, well the first coat at least. Debating over how to tackle the seats, hang them or go with how xhairs installed them. Guess I'll build them and then see.

    Best get busy.

  12. #12
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    north norfolk
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    Default

    looks like i'm slipping behind in my efforts...

    i PROMISE to try harder...

    it's just i'm having to do so much proper work at the moment i have no time for anything else... it seems that the organ stuff is coming in in spades and everyone wants it yesterday...


    anywho... i have decided to do the outside in a ploy and cloth with a pigment in the resin so i don't have to paint it... the inside will be just a poly undercoat like g4 and then a paint... it should work out a whole load cheaper and give me the extra strength i wanted...



    on a better note... the paddle i made feels great to use...

    we (the family) all went out again last weekend in a hire boat...

    although a little heavier than the ali and plastic one i was loaned for the trip, mine felt stronger and i could get better purchace in the water and more speed... i will need to wrap the shaft with a leather patch where it fouls on the gunwhales to protect it from scuffs, but other than that it's great...



    do i understand there are now two other twisted ply boats being made... we'll be needing our own section on the forum if this keeps up...
    Xhairs...

  13. #13
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    Jun 2009
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    Hamilton ON, Canada
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    Default Go Guys

    Hi xhairs and fitlike,

    You guys rock. One of us has to get on the water. I hung my seats on 6" bolts yesterday. That gives me 5" off the top of the gunnel with 1" to go up if need be. I also installed the centre thwart. She's ready for the water and go figure - I got a thunderstorm day here in Southern Ontario. I'll be out tomorrow and see what happens.

    xhairs, that's a good idea to pigment the resin as a coloured sealer. I glassed the inner keel and centre rib on mine - probably overkill but it's my first canoe builld. I also read on some posts that designers say that if you are only going to glass one side - make it the inside. I would have thought the opposite but I'm no physicist. I guess they're concerned over inward pressure on the hull. As you know the original plan says nylon cloth the joints and paint alkyd - pretty vague. I went alkyd gloss enamel and it seems strong and hard but I wont know till I go over some rocks. I have extra for the recoats I figure I will have to do each season. I might put something like a concrete sealer over the whole thing in time - see what happens.

    So with the three of us and the two plans I sent out recently via PM that make five of these things in production. On that danish site it sounds like they use this canoe for a school project build so there are probably a few more floating around denmark.

    Best and good luck
    The more I learn the less I know

  14. #14
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    Default

    do you notice any inward flexing of the hull if you press it towards the center from the outside...?

    i get upto 1/2" about 3' from each stem and slightly less nearer the central rib...

    this is my only concern with my build... with the strength at this point coming from the twist in the ply...

    i'm choosing to toughen up the outside of the wood with resin and cloth because this bit of the hull would be the first bit to hit into a submerged tree of rock and i'm not sure it could take the impact without damaging the timber...

    it's good to have someone else constructing this design so i can ask questions to another builder...

    i fitted my seats to blocks on the hull to help give support to this area of the hull, and went down to the keel line with a sturdy stick, to stop the small amount of 'oilcaning' (is this the right term for inward flexing of the hull) when i tried sitting on them...

    (i had taken my canoe ouside and it was sitting in 3'long thick grass when i tried... as it was the only thing i could think of that would help cushion the hull instead of putting it in the water)...


    all this talk of completion dates and trial outings is making me want to push on a get mine done now..


    just don't forget as many pictures as you can so i can see how she will sit in the water... i'm just hoping it's not going to be too tippy and will track ok with a single paddler...


    atvb...
    Xhairs...

  15. #15
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    Jun 2009
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    Default got her out on the water today

    Hi,

    I just got back from a nice paddle on the bay. Here are some pics:



    finished canoe



    on the water with my daughter (4yrs)



    more



    switching hands

    I don't notice flex in the hull since I glassed and painted. I've got 7 coats of resin and alkyd paint inside and out combined as well as glassed joints inside and out. While building I could feel the flex at the points you mention but now not so much. I may put some kind of slat floor(/deck?) in later but it seems fine.
    The ride: hides high in the water and fairly light, very responsive. I had to fine tune my stroke to get a straight line of travel. The centre of the hull is fairly flat so depending where you sit fore and aft you can change the trim and response. Overall I'm happy with it. It's been at least 15 years since I had the chance to use a wooden canoe and I remember that feeling of being high in the water and very responsive. That one was cedar strip. So for less that $200 CDN to build this one I am impressed. I'll have to get out for a few hours to really find out about the handling. This one sure feels better than plasitc or aluminium. Today I had my wife on shore with the cell phone taking pictures and we only had about 30min to spare. I am going camping from the 19-22 July in northern ontario to Bruce Peninsula National Park so I'll get a better feel then.

    Note: That area of the bay has a depth less than my height so don't get mad about the PFD I left in the car. Ha Ha. I always wear it, but it felt silly when I could stand up in the water.

    Get your pics up - I'm looking forward to seeing the other twisted plys on the water.


    Best
    The more I learn the less I know

  16. #16

    Default in the water

    Hi Guys
    Well she went into the water yesterday, sorry forgot the camera. I'll try and get some pics today or tomorrow. Small leak in the stern, but I'll sort that today, seems to track well, rides high so very sensitive to where you kneel. Off to the west coast next week (weather permitting) and up Loch Ness, that'll test her.

    Debating whether to add a keel strip for protection. Think it would be wise.

  17. #17
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    Default That was fast!

    Hey Fitlike,


    You are a "giterdun" kind of guy I see. Sorry to hear about the leak. Sucks especially if you already painted. Get some pics up of your trip.

    I added a outer keel strip. I had a feeling with the wide flat bottom I may need the help tracking. I know some people think that the strip doesn't help that but I put one on anyway. The downside is that it will hit rocks. I don't know if it is a big protection. Weigh the pros and cons. Good job finishing so fast. Post some details.


    Best
    The more I learn the less I know

  18. #18

    Default Fantastic

    Great canoe have just completed as Sf peterborough stitch and tape and onlyhad I seen a post like your last uear i know which i woudl have built!! I now wnat one just like your s and since I woudlloev to build one for my brother and his family thsi woudl getthem on the water thsi year if I am quick. One prpblem i do not havethe plans, any chance of a copy??
    thanks in anticipation.
    Ian

  19. #19
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    Default

    naughty naughty

  20. #20
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    Default plans

    Hi,

    the site with the free plans has changed the link. You can see the original link in my first post

    (http://www.sloejd-kbh.dk/tema/skibe/Kano_GB/Canoe.html.)

    I had made a copy of the plans on my hard drive for reference as a Word document. PM me your e-mail.

    Meanwhile if anyone can read Danish they can navigate the link and get those plans linked in the Public Domain Plans sticky again. I don't feel a conflict here because the plans were originally an open source to the public and can have no limitation on personal use. If you start a canoe building company and mass produce this canoe you had better get in contact with The Danish Teacher Training Centre for Sloyd, Craft, and Technology in Copenhagen. Otherwise I think they were meant to enjoy.

    Best


    Jamie
    The more I learn the less I know

  21. #21
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    Default

    jamie7, are you sure that the plans from the original link are on the new website? I'm asking because I've tried using Google Translate but can't find them if they are there.

    I have been able to find the first page of original link using this site,

    http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

    but it is just the page with some text but the images and drawings are missing and links in it do not work. I had the plans and web pages downloaded on my old computer but didn't bother when I got a new one thinking that it would always be there.

    Don't understand why when they upgraded their website that they didn't(?) include all the plans of the many interesting things they made at the School.

  22. #22
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    Default plans

    Hi Jokipea,



    I tried google translate already and couldn't find them. After yesterday's post I decided to send an e-mail to Benny Gaarde (I think he designed the canoe) at the sloyd school to see if he will but the link back up or if it is there and I missed it. I invited him to read our forum thread and see that the demand is there for guys who want to build the canoe for personal use. I am waiting to see what his reply will be. I think they use that canoe build as curriculum for one of their courses so I imagine the link will go back up as their new site is upgraded.
    The more I learn the less I know

  23. #23
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    Default Great build

    nice looking canoe, good job and thanks for sharing. .enjoy your paddling.

  24. #24
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    Default update on plans

    Hi folks,


    I got an e-mail back from the canoe's designer Benny Gaarde:



    "We are working on the server. A power failure just before the holiday period destroyed part of the server structure.
    The site will be back on the Web in mid-August. (after the summer holiday)
    I can’t find my name in your doc file.
    The canoe is my design - it is not public domain.
    It would be fair if my name appears in your doc file.

    Best regards

    Benny Gaarde"



    So that is good news. The plans will be back on their site sometime in August. I replied to Mr. Gaarde's e-mail and apologized for my oversite in leaving his name out of the .doc file I made and assured him it would be added right away. As long as we credit the plan properly it seems we are free to share the file for personal use until the website is working.


    Terry, thanks for the kudos.


    Best,



    Jamie
    The more I learn the less I know

  25. #25
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    Default

    Hi jamie7, thanks for reply. I thought about e-mailing Benny Gaarde as well so I hope your's is successful. Do you think more e-mails telling him how popular the plans are would help?

    Anyway thanks also for posting the pics of the build of your very nice looking canoe.

  26. #26
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    Smile Already good

    Hi Jokipea,


    As I wrote earlier, the link should be up by mid-August and we are OK to share the doc until then for personal use.

    Best
    The more I learn the less I know

  27. #27
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    Default

    Sorry jamie7, I wrote my reply above but did not check if there had been other replies whilst I was writing mine.

    It's good that the plans will be back. Thanks.

  28. #28

    Default your home built.

    Hey mate. really looks the part. i found this really interesting.Quite fancy doing this myself but looks like fair bit of skill needed. Well done!!

  29. #29
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    Jun 2009
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    Hamilton ON, Canada
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    Default not that hard to do.

    Hi Stazza,


    You could do it! It can't be any harder to build than the stitch and glue process. There are only two joints to glass and resin so it is likely less work than many of the other designs out there. Thanks for your comments.

    I just got back from camping in the Bruce Peninsula in Ontario (Canada). Went the length of Emmett Lake and across Cypres lake a few times. A few scratches in the paint from the rocks - she's finally broken in. I got some pics on my wife's camera I'll post soon.

    Bruce Peninsula National Park:
    http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/on/bruce/index_e.asp


    While paddling on Emmett lake I cast out for my little daughter Abigail and she was trolling while my wife and I paddled. After quite a while she said "daddy, I think I got a fish". Well I took the rod for her and took about 5 min to reel in the biggest Bass I've seen. Had to be over 8 lbs. , I actually snapped the cheap telescopic rod bringing it in. If I had have left it hooked we could have had a free ride around the lake. So now my daughter holds the family record for biggest Bass caught. We took a vote and let that big beauty swim happily away, but kept talking about it for the rest of the trip.



    Best
    Last edited by jamie7; 23rd-July-2009 at 04:53 AM.
    The more I learn the less I know

  30. Default

    Thanks for your PM Jamie. Really useful. Once my post count is up I'll PM you back. I started thinking I might knock one of these together this winter in my garage. Now I know it will have to become a labour of love I'll have to post all my work here for scrutiny!

  31. #31
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    Default Canoe Blueprints

    Hi Jamie7,

    After reading your thread my friend and I are planning on attempting to build this canoe. I know the plans for the build are currently unavailable for a couple of weeks or so and was wondering if you still had a word copy that you could send?

    Neither me nor my friend have any previous experience building Canoes and any advice you have on building this specific canoe would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks, Josh.

  32. #32
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    Default

    Hi everyone,

    Just been reading this post and I've checked the site for the link and the canoe is back on the site, I hope this works LINK You need to click THEME / IDEAS, Then under THEMES, Both Building

    .: Rich :.

  33. #33

    Default

    Doh! Checked out the site it doesn't appear to have a complete download option

  34. #34

    Default

    So I built some pdf's

  35. #35
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    Default

    You can usually save a site to your hard-disc, although how you do it will depend on your browser. If you do, you'll need to set it to download the "subpages" too, so that it all works properly.

    Although strictly speaking it might be a bit naughty, I suppose.

  36. #36

    Default

    Salut cette réalisation est vraiment belle ,je sais que le poste et très vieux mais quellequ'un aurait les plans , aucun lien fonctionne, merci

  37. #37
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    Default

    I tried looking for these plans online - the original domain, http://www.sloejd-kbh.dk/, has been seized by Danish Police ("The Danish State Prosecutor for Serious Economic and International Crime is presently conducting a criminal investigation that involves this domain name."). I looked on archive.org and have managed to find some of the plans and images from 2005, with Danish text. I note Jamie7 (above) has the plans as a Word doc, so if that is still available it will be better, but if not I will try to put what I have found into some kind of order and post it here (but it may take a few weeks).

  38. #38
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    Currently N. Somerset. Oftimes Quebec Province, Canada.
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    Default

    This is a very similar boat to my eyes. http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=RowBoats/glide_easy

    And the plans are available! It has the added advantage that you don't completely divide the panels.
    G

    'Adventure is relative. My adventure is another's commonplace.'

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