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Thread: Sweden 2007

  1. #1
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    Default Sweden 2007

    Hi all,

    I've been out of action for the last 6 weeks after having an op to remove football sized cyst from my abdomen ( ), so have had lots of time to think about trips next year while I'm not allowed to lift a shopping bag, let alone a canoe.

    I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a ~3week trip to Sweden? My vague idea was to hire a minibus and canoe trailer, get the ferry to Gothenburg (that takes about 24hrs), then while in the country canoe in a wild lake system with wild camping. By pre-arranging some rendevous points people could canoe alone/in small groups for a few days at a time before meeting back up again if people didn't want to travel in a large group the whole time, basically it would be a flexible approach.

    Obviously at this stage it's just a "see if anyone's interested" kind of thing. I was thinking about September 2007, as I don't believe this will be quick/easy to organise, and some people might want time to outfit their boat etc, and book time off work.

    Rough idea of cost for 3 weeks would be (per person, based on 12 people in a 17 seater bus towing a 6 canoe trailer, with a roof rack for a couple of extra canoes):
    Minibus hire £150
    Trailer hire £15
    Ferry £200(?)

    Plus:
    A few organised camp sites
    Petrol

    I reckon base cost would be maximum of £450 per person for 3 weeks. Sweden is expensive, but if we bring supplies from the UK that will mostly solve that problem, and wild camping is free!

    Let me know what you think, and if you're interested whether you have a pre-1997 driving license so could drive a minibus.

    Just a thought at the moment, as I said, but if enough people are seriously interested I am willing to organise it.

    Experience-wise, I had in mind doing one of the vast lake systems, so you wont need vast amounts of experience, but will need to be confident paddling open water. You might want to do a bit of wild camping first, and probably should have paddled your canoe fully loaded before we go. I'll probably do a shortish jaunt with wild camping in the UK in the summer, so could organise it to be a practice run for Sweden.

    Amelia

  2. #2

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    I was intending to go to Sweden next year. Perhaps I can meet the group somewhere.
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  3. #3
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    Default Sweden

    get off the ferry in Kristiansand-Norway. It saves about 8 hours on the ferry and is considerably cheaper. If your heading North from Gothenburg anyway it also puts you further North to start with.

    you may want to look at the end of August as the weather can turn pretty bad in September

    Sweden is nowhere near as pricey as it used to be since it joined the EU. Take Trangias as meths is cheap!

    Chris
    "All right" said Eeyore "We're going. Only don't blame me"

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I've been out of action for the last 6 weeks after having an op to remove football sized cyst from my abdomen ( ), so have had lots of time to think about trips next year while I'm not allowed to lift a shopping bag, let alone a canoe.
    Oh not good. Hope you get well soon. Remember to take it easy and don't try to do too much too soon.

    Glad to see that organising your last meet has not put you off
    John

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    Hi Amelia,

    Sorry to hear about your problems, I hope things go well.

    The Sweden trip sounds interesting and I do intend to do something special on the water next summer. Pop us down on your list as potentially interested - I can do the minibus driving as well if needed.

    Rob and laurence.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    Get Well soon Amelia

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    Amelia being poorly in the summer is no fun. I hope you make a speedy recovery.

    Based on my previous attempts to find a reasonable price for a ferry to Sweden I would suggest you need to treble the cost. I never came close to finding a price for under £400 and that was for a normal car no trailer.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne View Post
    Based on my previous attempts to find a reasonable price for a ferry to Sweden I would suggest you need to treble the cost. I never came close to finding a price for under £400 and that was for a normal car no trailer.
    Amelia's price was per person so £200 x 12 people = £2400 for the ferry.
    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiKelly View Post
    Amelia's price was per person so £200 x 12 people = £2400 for the ferry.
    I must learn to read properly.

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    That sounds like a fantastic idea Amelia, put me down as a potential subject to work, cost, wife etc It would be great. I can drive the mini bus too, not so sure about my ability in a canoe though
    Leone_blanco

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    did someone say august??
    must remember to tell my wife we will holiday where she likes at least until next august


    might start with european autumn sun followed by easter sun( both costly


    then i will see what happens





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    My in laws go to visit friends in Sweden regularly and they were told by DFDS ferry staff that DFDS are taking over the Newcastle to Stavanger/Haugesund/ Berdgen route currently run by Fjord Line and dropping the Newcastle to Kristiansand /Gothenburg route, although when this will happen I don't know.

    Presumably there is a good chance that another operator will take on the route.

    Talking to some Swedes a couple of months ago Ii was suprised to hear that they consider Britain to be much more expensive than Sweden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viking View Post
    My in laws go to visit friends in Sweden regularly and they were told by DFDS ferry staff that DFDS are taking over the Newcastle to Stavanger/Haugesund/ Berdgen route currently run by Fjord Line and dropping the Newcastle to Kristiansand /Gothenburg route, although when this will happen I don't know.
    That might explain why when I tried to look for prices for next year it said 'Service ends October 2006"....! I'd thought this meant it was a summer-only service

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    Default Sweden trip

    I'm very interested.
    Hopefully if its the first 3 weeks of August.
    I'm supposed to be at work for the last 2 weeks in August!
    (I could maybe do a deal for that third week!).
    Rob F

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    Default DFDS press release

    In fact further ferreting on the DFDS website reveals their announcement of the service closure on 15 October:
    http://www.dfds.co.uk/DSW/EN/Top_Nav...ses/060906.htm

    Ian

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    could be interested in this. By then I should be able to take some time off, since I've gained a lot of brownie points through missing so much this year . Not sure about 3 weeks though, they'll be having a fit at work [again] They get a bit ansty if I even take a fortnight.
    Obscured by Clouds

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    It's bad news taht they have stopped doing Kristiansand/Gotenburg and had scuppered my own plans for next year, just hope another company steps in. I think that one reason they went to Kristiansand was to take advantage of the fact that Norway is not in the EU and this has implications for duty free shopping.

    By the way if you do travel on a DFDS boat, try the "all you can eat buffet" . My best effort was five main courses and three deserts.

    Which for £15 was pretty good value, also the food was FANTASTIC

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    If I am not in the middle of the jungle.

    I am hoping to do a jungle survival course next year with a few other bushcraft instructors but it maybe hard to co ordinate. If not then count me in.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

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    Hope you get well soon Amelia.
    Could be very interested in this but would have to sound out the boss now as 3 weeks especially during peak holiday period could prove difficult.
    Also need to get my finger out re: my passport as it ran out years ago would also be able to share driving put me down as a possible please.
    Mike B...
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  20. #20
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    Thanksall I had a look at the ferry issue, and I think going from Newcastle to Stavanger then driving to Sweden would be the best option (Norway itself seems best suited to sea kayakers).

    Weather wise, July would seem to be the best balance of temperature and sunlight.

    Instead of faffing, I'm going to propose Sun 8th July - Sun 29th July 2007. Probably for at least some people the Sat 7th will be spent collecting the bus and trailer.

    I think the absolute minimum number of participants to make it work will be about 9, the ideal around 12.

    Potentials I have so far are:

    gwing
    LAS247
    Rob fielding
    Don Redondo
    Wayne
    Mike B
    me

    If you are interested, please go check with your boss/family etc whether it's a possibility, and have a think about whether you're really interested. The ferry is cheaper the earlier it's booked. At the moment it's £200 per person for 9 people, more people would push that price down. Minibuses range in size from 12-17 seats, but with canoes we're going to need spare seats for luggage inside.

    If you change from being just interested (ie. the list of people above) to being pretty certain you could come, let me know, and also tell me how many people/canoes will be in your party, and remind me whether you are able/willing to drive the bus.

  21. #21
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    Default sweden

    Hi amelia

    I am very interested in this trip, it sounds fantastic.

    Taking time off work is not a problem for me being self employed.

    One question...is anyone going solo or are people doubleing up as i was thinking of going solo myself or would that slow people down too much.

    I can share the driving ...so put me down as a yes to this trip please.


    get well soon.

    maynman

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    You may find the drive East from Stavanger is very slow. Norway has speed cameras and I seem to recall mostly single carriageway at 50mph.

    The Esburg route could be better. There are other companies that run out of the North of Denmark to Gothenburg or (I think Oslo).

    I know others have also done it by driving North from France.

    Just to put you off further, July is not good from the mosquito point of view and is also the busiest from the Swedish holidays point of view too.

    But please don't let this put you off. Have a geat time and come back withe lots of tales of adventure you can share.

    Chris
    "All right" said Eeyore "We're going. Only don't blame me"

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynman View Post
    Hi amelia

    I am very interested in this trip, it sounds fantastic.

    Taking time off work is not a problem for me being self employed.

    One question...is anyone going solo or are people doubleing up as i was thinking of going solo myself or would that slow people down too much.

    I can share the driving ...so put me down as a yes to this trip please.


    get well soon.

    maynman
    I'll be going solo if I can do the trip, I'm self centered.
    Leone_blanco

  24. #24
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    Oooh! hadn't read the first post properly, hadn't noticed it was 3 weeks, this does seem a bit long, not sure I can get so long off work in one go. Am starting a new job on Monday will have to case this out when I get my feet under the table.
    Leone_blanco

  25. #25
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    Something to whet the appetite... I've been looking at the Dalsland canal area



    The Dalsland Canal is really very little canal; it is more a system of big and small lakes, rivers and idyllic, meandering canal passages. The area stretches from Lake Vänern in the south, through Dalsland, into south-western Värmland and up to its northernmost point, the Östervallskog woods at the Norwegian border (map). Many consider the Dalsland Canal lake system one of Europe’s loveliest, with clean air, fresh water (which you can drink right from the lakes) and rich wildlife. Countless lakes and all sizes of waterways – perfect for canoeing – bays, islands, sounds. You’ll find your own route between islands and capes – your imagination is the only limit... Find a spot to camp for the night in the peace of undisturbed country. Perhaps you’ll hear the mournful call of the black-throated diver in the summer night, or maybe you’ll see a moose by the water’s edge. Depending on the weather, wind and distance you plan to travel that day, paddling can be a test of strength or simply relaxing. And perhaps because the area consists of so little canal and so much crystal-clear lake, canoe and kayak are the ideal way to travel. You may have to do some lifting in a week of canoeing, but you’ll never have to carry the canoe far.




    Some more thoughts... proposed itinerary

    With the change in ferry schedules etc I looked into what would happen if this was a 2 week trip, and if we can get at least 2 people to share the driving so we can do some long days to get there it could work based on the following itinerary:

    1
    Saturday
    Meet at pre-arranged place to transfer canoes to trailer and leave cars.
    Drive to campsite near Dover.
    2
    Sunday
    Take ferry Dover to Dunquerke. Standard return price with 12 passengers and 12m vehicle £350 return, cheaper if booked earlier. 1h45 crossing.
    Drive to campsite near Rostock in Germany, 540 miles.
    TOTAL: 1h45 ferry, 540 miles driving, £350 ferry, £216 petrol
    3
    Monday
    Take ferry from Rostock to Gedser. Estimated price £200 for 12 people and vehicle. 1h45 crossing.
    Drive Gedser to Malmo, over toll bridge. Cost approx £180 return, 130 miles.
    Drive to campsite such as vammervikenscamping.se, 290 miles.
    TOTAL: 1h45 ferry, 420 miles driving, £200 toll, £170 petrol
    4
    Tuesday
    Rest Day, sorting kit, etc.
    5
    Wednesday
    Canoeing/wild camping in Dalsland, 9 days
    6
    Thursday
    7
    Friday
    8
    Saturday
    9
    Sunday
    10
    Monday
    11
    Tuesday
    12
    Wednesday
    13
    Thursday
    14
    Friday
    Drive to Gedser, 420 miles.
    Camp near Gedser.
    15
    Saturday
    Ferry from Gedser to Rostock. 1h45 crossing.
    Drive Rostock to Dunquerke, 540 miles.
    Camp Dunquerke.
    16
    Sunday
    Ferry crossing to Dover from Dunquerke.
    Collect cars.


    Cost

    2 week 17 seater minibus £1200
    Dover – Dunquerke £ 350
    Rostock – Gedser £ 200
    Copenhagen – Malmo £ 180
    Petrol £ 900
    Canoe trailer £ 60
    TOTAL £2890

    Price per person (approx)
    8 people £ 360
    9 people £320
    10 people £290
    11 people £260
    12 people £240


    Would this be more practical for people? And what are people's thoughts dates-wise - July or August?

    Re. people in solo boats - that's definitely OK, I'll be going solo too. We can always split into pairs/smaller groups for sections if people find they're going at different paces.

    There's info on the Dalsland Canal here.
    Last edited by MagiKelly; 20th-September-2006 at 02:36 PM. Reason: fix font

  26. #26
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    I think your more likely to get takers for 2 weeks less stress getting time off work during the holiday season.

    I like the idea of Dover. much easier for us Southerners.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  27. #27
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    Two weeks would be easier than three for us as well - please add Laurence to the list as we would be doing this together, probably tandem although she will have a new solo to play with and may want to use that.

    We live close to Dover so there's no need to find a camp site here :-). Not that its unreasonable but I'm a bit surprised at the ferry cost to Dunkerque - we often travel there on Norfolk Line and the going rate, varying a bit with sailing times, is £70->95 return for a standard car and up to five passengers. I haven't tried a minibus and trailer though.

    The photos look enticing, but my preference would be to do some (gentle) river tripping rather than lakes and canals. Does the proposed area offer this or is it too flat?
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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    That seems to be a lot of driving over 2 days???

    Could you fly over and hire the canoes ?? would it be cheaper ???

    MickT
    Last edited by bothyman; 20th-September-2006 at 03:39 PM.
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  29. #29
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    The ferry cost is high because it's based on 12 passengers with a tall 5.5m minibus and 6.5m trailer.

    I'm still looking to try to find where to canoe - the Dalsland area was really just a suggestion. The river trips I've seen involve grade III water or multiple portages up to 8km, which is either too techy or too hard. I'm keeping looking though and am open to suggestions! Links to look at are:

    http://www.scandiatrail.com/Canoe%20Outpost%20UK.htm
    http://www.naturarvskompaniet.se/canoetrails.html
    http://www.kanotguiden.com/canoeing.htm

    It very much depends on what people want out the trip - In a lake system like Dalsland it's not moving water and has small channels and islands, but would offer greater flexibility for people breaking into smaller groups and doing different routes for various sections. Moving water would require the group to all move together, and would have to be very basic to meet the requirements of everyone.

    As said, I'm very open minded about it, so input is appreciated!

  30. #30
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    2 weeks certainly appeals more to me. The lakes sounds great as we should cater for a broad mix of people with perhaps the potential for WW if needed and available. You certainly seem to be putting a lot of work into this one Amelia, hope itall works out for you. I hope everyone appreciates the efforts Amelia is putting in and remember this, don't just say what you don't want to do but help with ideas and planning.
    Leone_blanco

  31. #31
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    I was in Sweden last year, lived in the forest for a week. Brilliant place.
    You can hire canoes over there for about £80 a week, they are 17ft alminium boats. If you buy a "Wildlife ticket" you can use the small lake side lodges (dog kennels) to camp in IIRC the cost is £2.50 a day.
    Food over there is on a par with here price wise, booze is dear. Fly to Oslo £120 return. Bus (number 6) from the airport to central bus station 40 minute drive £10. From there to Arjang (bus number 888) in Sweden 2 hour drive another £10. Canoe Center staff will pick you up from Arjang and take you to the center and the lake Vastra Silen.


    Don't sweat the small stuff.....


    Martin

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    Two weeks might be a bit of a problem - I can drive a mini-bus and have always intended to give Sweden a go, what are the possibilities of a two week trip?
    Jerry

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    Well, it looks like it will definitely be a 2 week trip now.

    Re. the flying option, although it involves a lot of driving I really wanted to have my own canoe with my own kit, and not have to worry about provisions etc in Sweden. What does everyone else think?

    Timing-wise, July is the traditional holiday month in Sweden, so would presumably be busy on the water.

    June could be an option. It's generally dryer and cooler than July and August, the chart below is for Stockholm:





    From this June could be good, and is also mid-summer. Mid-August is a big canoe marathon in Dalsland, so again this area could get quite busy, as it might in July.

    In Stockholm there's 11 hours of sun in June, 8 in August, so going in June would give an extra 3 hours of sun per day, which could be very helpful!.

    There's a site for canoeing in Dalsland here.

    I'm currently working on potential routes, so watch this space!

  34. #34
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    A potential route is below, from Gustavsfors to Dals-Ed, popping into Norway on the way. There's a bus route between the two which could be used for dropping the bus/trailer off at the finish, which could be done on the Tuesday, which would be used as a rest/sorting out day.

    Haven't measure it, but the graphic below includes a scale for 1 mile and 15 miles.

    Theres a site (not in English) of some sea kayakers who did almost the same route a few years back - there are numbered links at the bottom to photos, which would give you an idea. They did a slightly longer route, 150km. My preference would be to not aim for too much distance, leaving time and energy to explore side lakes, have a rest day etc as people decide.

    The advantage of the route is that it completely avoids major roads, and a one-way route might be a nice thing to aim for. Let me know what you think!


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I'm still looking to try to find where to canoe - the Dalsland area was really just a suggestion. The river trips I've seen involve grade III water or multiple portages up to 8km, which is either too techy or too hard. I'm keeping looking though and am open to suggestions! Links to look at are:

    http://www.scandiatrail.com/Canoe%20Outpost%20UK.htm
    http://www.naturarvskompaniet.se/canoetrails.html
    http://www.kanotguiden.com/canoeing.htm

    It very much depends on what people want out the trip - In a lake system like Dalsland it's not moving water and has small channels and islands, but would offer greater flexibility for people breaking into smaller groups and doing different routes for various sections. Moving water would require the group to all move together, and would have to be very basic to meet the requirements of everyone.

    As said, I'm very open minded about it, so input is appreciated!
    I'm absolutely amazed - there are so many options it seems unbelievable. I hopped onto http://www.kanotguiden.se/xesoktur/index.htm where there is a database where you can put in your trip criteria for wilderness/civilisation/mountains/lakes/rapids/portages etc and tried for a laught 'easy-medium' grade and 'lots of rapids' which brought up 63 'canoe trails' ranging from 18 to over 500 kilometers! The one that appealed the ,ost was Fulualen which was classified as 3 trips, 143km, Rivers, Forest-Open, Wild-Inhabited, grade 1.4,4 portages, longest portage 0.1 km.

    Of course this area may be completely impractical to get to, but go on have a play it's totally incredible what is available there. P.S. Don't forget to hit the English flag symbol on their site or you have to be rather good at Swedish.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


  36. #36
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    I couldn't find the tour you mentioned. I've looked on the site before, but haven't found anything of sufficient length with manageable portages (this is meant to be a holiday after all!) that we could get to without adding another 4 days of travelling on. But if you do find one let me know - note down the name, number, and what province it's in, which will make finding it again easier.

  37. #37
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    Your recommendation looks spot on Amelia, two weeks sounds a lot better for me any time would be suitable as we still have enough planning time to arrange holidays from work etc.
    Leone_blanco

  38. #38
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    In order to make sure I've got enough info off everyone to help plan this thing, if you're thinking about coming on the trip please FILL IN THIS FORM. This way I know I'll have all the info I need. One form per person, so if you're thinking of coming in a doubles pair, both paddlers need to submit a form.

    Thanks

  39. #39
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    Default Sweden 2007

    Hello all,

    My partner and I and our dogs will be canoeing the Dalsland area in the first three weeks of June. So if you guys decide to go around that time it will be nice to meet up for a few days, depending on your route.

    Fred.

  40. #40
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    We are also planning a trip to Sweden next June/July. We won't join in on the group though as well have all the kids stuff along with us to ( you should see the amount we take for three days ).
    Planning on a 3 week trip so keep us informed of plans and hopefully we'll see some or all of you there.
    'There is no wealth but life itself.'

  41. #41
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    Just wanted to bump this thread up, and also to say if you want to come please fill in the form (link in my last post a bit up this page) by the end of September so I have an idea of whether there are enough people seriously interested to make it feasible.

    Thanks

  42. #42
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    Whats the interest like so far?

    I'd like to thank you for your efforts to date.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

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    I've got a mate who's been doing some grade three rivers in his open boat in Sweden during the last two Summers. Last year, he hired a Float plane and he and his boat (and his missus') got dropped of in the middle of nowhere. I'll ask him for his itinerary. I know it's not what you intended but it'll be food for thought for somebody.

  44. #44
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    Question I'd be interested

    Hi Amelia

    Not sure if I can get a pass for that long so might consider joining you for a week? Also back to school in September so could manage mid to end of August maybe. Sounds like a great idea.

    Chris
    There is nothing—
    absolute nothing—half so much worth
    doing as simply messing about in boats.

  45. #45
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    So far 5 have filled in forms:

    climb_paddle_play (though potentially dates might not work out)
    ukrols
    maynman
    wayne
    gwing

    Really need a minimum of about 9 to make this work as a 1 vehicle and trailer trip, as that requires a minibus. A smaller vehicle (like a people carrier) would be difficult to fit everyone's kit for 2 weeks in to.

    I'm going to wait til the end of the month and see what replies have been had by then.

  46. #46

    Default

    For me the demand is notional and depends on cost. If when it is all worked out I can afford it, then can I sign up at a later date? Or is it preferable to register interest in the form without commitment.
    __________________
    Biddlesby
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    "What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
    "You ask a glass of water."

  47. #47
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    I suppose an alternative could be put forward if the Swedish venture does not come off - expense may be a barrier for some and also the time proposed for driving - always debilitating.
    Those who perhaps fancy less than 2 weeks and were looking for a cheaper alternative could consider a week in the Allier/Dordogne region in France where there is some great paddling - have a look at Pete Knowles guide 'White Water Massis Central' which is written with open boating in mind. I've been down there several times both canoeing and kayaking and late June is a good time to go. Its a cheaper alternative, good paddling although the multi day option is much reduced - there is over 100km of the Allier to be paddled for those wanting multi day trips.
    The other alternative id to fly to Sweden and hire boats etc?
    Anyway some thoughts - it would be great to get a summer trip in somewhere.
    Jerry

  48. #48
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    At this stage it looks like Sweden wont be happening - I have 6 people on the list, plus me, which isn't enough especially when you consider not everyone on the list will probably come.

    I think based on this level of interest I can say the trip wont be going ahead, which is a pity but I really didn't expect it to work, just thought I'd put the idea forward and see what happened I know people might think it's early stages to put this idea to bed, but if the interest isn't there at this stage I don't think it's suddenly going to appear, and I need to know whether I'll be away for 2 weeks or not this summer fairly soon so I can organise alternative hols.

    If people want a week long UK trip in the summer that would be an option that could be easy to organise, options would be (off the top of my head):

    Severn
    Wye
    Spey (bit short for a week)
    Caledonian Canal
    Highlands mixed canoe/hiking trip
    Knoydart
    Thames

    If people want a week long trip abroad, good luck to you, but I wont be organising it .

    In summary, the Sweden trip isn't happening, if you want a week long summer trip, start a new thread

  49. #49
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    Default

    Well all we can do is thank you for efforts, as usual your research and planning were very thorough. Which must have taken some time.

    And hopefully you'll have recovered soon and be back on the water to treat us with some more of your stunning photography.

    Roly.


  50. #50
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    i know it apears im to late but just to say i would DEFINITALY go on this trip if it (or something similar) were to go ahead. i was looking at £800 plus flughts for 1 weeks paddling in sweden with glenmore lodge.

    If anyone is still looking to go (albeit on a smaller and slightly more expsensive trip) i'd still be up for it

    Stuart

  51. #51
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    Hadn't really considered doing a small group trip... but maybe it could be done... The only way a trip would work with a small group would be:

    1) someone came forward with a car capable of towing that they were willing to insure 1 or 2 other drivers on for the duration of the trip

    2) people were happy to go on a trip with a small group (around 4 people unless someone had a people carrier...), which would probably work better if we all had a weekend or day meet somewhere before the trip set off

    3) people were willing to commit now and quickly decide on dates and pay their share of the ferry fare within the next couple of weeks before I put my deposit down for a course at glenmore lodge next summer

    Cost-wise, I've got no idea... if we guess car and trailer at £250 for the ferry, trailer hire £60, petrol £250, tolls £200, extra insurance £40 based on 4 people it would be £200 each. Which seems extremely cheap, so I'm sure I've done my sums wrong The thing that makes it much cheaper would be having a car not a minibus.

    So here it goes if there are any takers for a 2 week trip to Sweden in 2007 (date to be decided) with a very small group (about 4 people) please reply to this post and also include in the post whether you have a car that can tow that you would be willing to insure a couple of other drivers on, and how big that car is. Reply right now or forever hold your peace!

    (I can't believe I've started this thread back up again... !!!)

  52. #52
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    sign me up

    i would happily drive my car but its not capable of towing. I drove about for 3 months in europe earlier this year (including company site cars not just my own) so i'd drive overseas again no worries

    Stuart

  53. #53
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Hadn't really considered doing a small group trip... but maybe it could be done... The only way a trip would work with a small group would be:

    1) someone came forward with a car capable of towing that they were willing to insure 1 or 2 other drivers on for the duration of the trip

    2) people were happy to go on a trip with a small group (around 4 people unless someone had a people carrier...), which would probably work better if we all had a weekend or day meet somewhere before the trip set off

    3) people were willing to commit now and quickly decide on dates and pay their share of the ferry fare within the next couple of weeks before I put my deposit down for a course at glenmore lodge next summer

    Cost-wise, I've got no idea... if we guess car and trailer at £250 for the ferry, trailer hire £60, petrol £250, tolls £200, extra insurance £40 based on 4 people it would be £200 each. Which seems extremely cheap, so I'm sure I've done my sums wrong The thing that makes it much cheaper would be having a car not a minibus.

    So here it goes if there are any takers for a 2 week trip to Sweden in 2007 (date to be decided) with a very small group (about 4 people) please reply to this post and also include in the post whether you have a car that can tow that you would be willing to insure a couple of other drivers on, and how big that car is. Reply right now or forever hold your peace!

    (I can't believe I've started this thread back up again... !!!)
    Even better would be eight(ish) people and an extra car as that would both bring the costs down even further and give flexibility for shuttles etc. at the other end. I've a good car for this but it hasn't got a towbar fitted - could get two boats on the roof and four people inside but not all the kit as well.

    I'm O.K. with the new proposal and still interested. Make or break for me would be what the itinerary is in that I would want to aim for 50/50 river tripping rather than just lakes (that and Laurence's agreement but I think it would be more a question of trying to hold her back).

    Come to think of it, by your costings, we could make this viable with just three people, two boats, one car and no trailer assuming the ferry is a bit cheaper without the trailer. We could just about squeeze this in my car (Peugeot 406 Diesel estate) with iron discipline on how much we pack.

    Laurence and I make two, so aren't we already there ? I think we could be flexible on the mechanics:

    2 or 3 people = 1 car
    4 = 1 car + trailer
    5 - maybe not viable ?
    6 to 8 = 2 cars plus 1 trailer.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


  54. #54
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    Talking Interested

    Again I would be interested depending on dates
    There is nothing—
    absolute nothing—half so much worth
    doing as simply messing about in boats.

  55. #55
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    I'll put my thinking cap on and do a bit more searching for routes. There are plenty of v. nice river routes in the north of the country, but that would be a very long drive. I'll see if I can find some kind of compromise, which could be a drive, a couple of days canoeing, another drive, a week on a river, a drive back down, another short trip, then home. Watch this space.

    Please could everyone who is interested post to let me know whether you could take your car, and whether your car can take 1 or 2 canoes.

    Dates-wise, we'll thrash something out. Everyone who filled in a form, I'll send an email out to everyone because it will be easier to have a discussion by email.


  56. #56
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    I have driven the length of Sweden with my wife. great trip pure bliss. Although Sweden isn't as as expensive as the horror stories it is pricey for fuel. Also factor time. I dove for 8 hours a day for 6 days. the reach Abisko.

    Bushcraft Survival and First Aid Training.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayne View Post
    I have driven the length of Sweden with my wife. great trip pure bliss. Although Sweden isn't as as expensive as the horror stories it is pricey for fuel. Also factor time. I dove for 8 hours a day for 6 days. the reach Abisko.
    Ouch, that is a lot of driving. Would you have an idea of how long it might take to reach, say, Dalarna where there seems to be plenty of scope?
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


  58. #58
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    Calais to Falun (the capital of Dalarna) is about 1000 miles, plus a ferry trip to get from Germany to Sweden. It worries me that that's a long way to go for 2 weeks - in a minibus I thought it would be OK because you'd have a number of drivers in 1 vehicle. I'm not overly keen to organise a trip that involves that much driving with only a couple of drivers per vehicle on a 2 week trip, where there would be a pressure to do the driving as quickly as possible in order to get a decent amount of time canoeing.

    Anywhere south of Dalarna and there's lake trips, but no long river trips.

  59. #59
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    I'm going to once again (and finally this time) declare myself out of any Sweden trip as it's getting too complicated. A nice simple trip to France seems easier, so see the "Summer Possibilities for Paddling" thread for that.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I'm going to once again (and finally this time) declare myself out of any Sweden trip as it's getting too complicated. A nice simple trip to France seems easier, so see the "Summer Possibilities for Paddling" thread for that.
    Whereas I'm not against a trip to France at all I'm not giving up on the Sweden trip just yet. I haven't been able to obtain sufficient info from the net to know what all the options are and have sent of for canoing guides to the Scandinavian countries to see exactly what our options are.

    One possibility might be to go to Norway which should be an easy ferry trip with no driving but I need more info on what canoeing is actually available in the reasonable vicinity of the ferry ports - watch this space.
    Happy paddling ,
    Rob.


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