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Thread: Canoe Sailing Advice

  1. #1
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    Default Canoe Sailing Advice

    Has anyone ever used or heard any reports of the Expedition Rig manufactured by Solway Dory. It looks like a fairly compact unit, but could it be rigged and de-rigged on the water? I'm looking for a small sail set-up that is easy to use but will also allow me to sail to windward with the addition of a leeboard. Making my own leeboard is certainly within my DIY scope but from reading previous reports posted on this site regarding the limitations of adapting or making your own sail I think I would rather spend the extra money on a professionally made sail that I know will work.
    Any advice would be most welcome.
    Dougie

  2. #2
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    I am also in the market for this sailing rig. I have not used one but spoke to 'the man' at the English Symposium and I think you can drop it on the water. (If not it is dangerous, but then so is night sailing in a storm. (Don't ask )

    It is very expensive compared to the Endless river one (which does work across the wind/up wind, but not so effectively).

    I modified my Endless River sail so that it could be dropped/raised on the water, and made a pole extension/pully to allow this happen smoothly. (For sale to part fund the Solway Dory extravagance!)

    Couple of other points just ocurred to me. The Solway Dory sail is very small. Nice in mucho windy conditions, but not much use in light winds. But then it is a tripping, rather than performance sail. And, talking of performance, it works better one way, but less so the other.
    Last edited by tenboats1; 18th-September-2006 at 11:00 AM.
    If it wasn't for the rain in our lives there would be no rivers. X 2

  3. #3

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    Hi Dougie,

    The Solway Dory Expedition Rig came into existence because I asked the chaps at Solway Dory to design a rig for me to use on my 5* assessment. The rig proved to be brilliant for that, and the comment of my assessor was 'very impressive, that's a 6* sailing performance'.

    As ten boats says, it is a relatively small rig though. In a force 3 you won't be able to go upwind faster than someone paddling, but with skill, you will be able to sail on a reach faster than someone paddling.

    I have beaten competent paddlers to windward in a force 4, but that was sailing a canoe with a rudder, lee board and a 4 square meter sail.

  4. #4

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    I just received a message from a f/m who had read the above post, it made me realise that my original post is perhaps a bit ambiguous...

    When I said that a 25ish square foot sail wouldn't get you to windward faster than someone paddling, I was taking into account the fact that the paddler will be travelling in a straight line, where as the sailor will be tacking, and therefore will have to sail a much longer series of zig zags to get to the same point.

    In terms of boat speed, I've never had my GPS out and checked, but I suspect that a good 25ish square foot sail would move you along at about 2.5 mph when sailing at 45 degrees to the wind in a force 3.

    Some more canoe sailing speed comparisons...

    A solo sailor in a canoe equipped with two lugsails (combined area 44 square feet) should sail to windward slightly faster than a Mirror dinghy with two people on board.

    A canoe with a single 44 square foot sail, should sail at about the same speed as a Topper dinghy.
    Last edited by Oceanic; 21st-September-2006 at 12:20 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Oceanic Feeling View Post

    A solo sailor in a canoe equipped with two lugsails (combined area 44 square feet) should sail to windward slightly faster than a Mirror dinghy with two people on board.

    A canoe with a single 44 square foot sail, should sail at about the same speed as a Topper dinghy.
    Thanks for that - really useful to compare with something I already know!

    Am I right then that a single sail should be nearly 8% faster (based on topper / mirror PY numbers) than having the same sail area split over two sails?

    If this is the case, has anyone tried using a jib and main instead of the ketch setup to improve rig efficiency? Personally I'm toying with the idea of an asymmetric spinnaker for downwind use, but that's another story .



    I think this one might be a bit big though!

    Blutack.
    The Canoeist's prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to walk the portages I must, The courage to run the rapids I can, And the wisdom to know the difference".

    John Muir Trust - Wild Places for Nature & People.

  6. #6
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    I've got a Sydney harbour 18' skiff asymetric kite you can have
    Obscured by Clouds

    Clipper Prospector 16

    http://lostcoast.blogspot.com

  7. #7
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    Don - I think that might be a bit big for me too. For more fun, why not put it on an 18 foot skiff? For those of you who haven't got a clue what we're talking about, the videos on this link are well worth checking out, particularly the foiling video!

    Blutack.
    The Canoeist's prayer: "Lord grant me the serenity to walk the portages I must, The courage to run the rapids I can, And the wisdom to know the difference".

    John Muir Trust - Wild Places for Nature & People.

  8. #8
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    Default Canoe Sailing Advice

    Hi,

    The Aiguille Alpine rig is approx 40-50% bigger than the Endless River version, and sails pretty well. I use a mast extension on the bottom of the pole approx 2'-2' 6'' long. It looks very big when used on my Guide, but it will plane quite easily, scares me anyway. I wish i had known about your lee boards for sale when i went past last week TB.

    Paul

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutack View Post
    Thanks for that - really useful to compare with something I already know!

    Am I right then that a single sail should be nearly 8% faster (based on topper / mirror PY numbers) than having the same sail area split over two sails?
    Yes, although obviously PY numbers are based on average conditions, in very windy conditions the difference between a ketch rig and a bermudan rig is less pronounced than in light winds.

    If this is the case, has anyone tried using a jib and main instead of the ketch setup to improve rig efficiency?
    Yes, infact we've been talking a lot recently about jibs as an alternative to mizzens in the Open Canoe Sailing Group. The main issue is that when the mast bends the luff tension of the jib is reduced, and this spoils the shape of the sail. Consequently most people have found jibs to actually be less efficient than mizzens. Dinghies solve the mast bend problem with shrouds, and consequently jibs on dinghies are very efficient sails. Unfortunately shrouds rely on a stiff hull, which is not the normal case with a plastic or Royalex hull. I have seen shrouds used very effectively on a wooden canoe, but they still represent an extra layer of complexity.



    I think this one might be a bit big though
    There's many a true word spoken in jest (as my old dad would have said). Canoe Sailing was quite a popular sport in Scotland at the end of the 19th Century, some impressive journeys were done at this time (eg Stornoway to Tobermory, Crinan to Portree). Unfortunately, in the early part of the 2oth Century, the main protaganists seemed to turn their backs on sailing/paddling expeditions and devote their time to international racing canoes. These racing boats developed into the IC10 in your picture.

    In order to keep canoe sailing closer to it's routes, and discourage the development of boats that are only suitable for racing, the Open Canoe Sailing Group has placed a limit of 44 square feet on the sails of it's racing canoes. The result of this is that the same boats that are used for racing are also suitable for multi day camping trips.

    Steve

  10. #10
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    Default Sailboatstogo experience

    Does anyone has experience with Sailboatstogo sailrig equipment. I am interested in such rig as this one does not need any drilling or mounting.
    http://sailboatstogo.com/catalog/pro...gory=CANOE_RIG
    Taal

  11. #11
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    Default update

    Since this thread started we have bought an Exped rig and used it quite a bit both on the sea and on big lochs.

    It is very easy to use, easy to drop on the water and small enough not to scare the pants off non sailors like us.
    It makes a nice lean to shelter for the dog when at camp.

    This is now the only rig we use, though I have considered making a lighter one to use with carbon poles for when I need to travel light. But I'm kind of sold on the performance of the Exped rig so might just carry the weight anyway.

    Expensive compared to the alternatives, but high quality and much higher performance. If you want even more 'sailing' there are better rigs of course, but for general journeying I've not seen better.

    TB
    If it wasn't for the rain in our lives there would be no rivers. X 2

  12. #12
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    Default wind paddles

    I like the look of the wind paddle sail, has anyone on the forum got one, or know anything about them.

  13. #13
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    They look good don't they. I plan to have a go at making one.
    Fran

    Photobucket stole my sig



  14. #14
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    I have a Solway Dory standard bermuda 44 sq. feet rig. It is very easy to set up (feed mast through hole in mast thwart into mast step - block of wood with hole in it stuck on to floor of canoe), to use, and to reef (partly roll up on mast) or fully roll up on mast (rather than dropping the sail). You can also lift the mast out of it's step and tie it on lying flat - a bit more difficult to do on the water, but very easy alongside the shore.

    The Solway Dory leeboard and rudder are also excellent - strong, effective, easy to raise and lower, and easy to take on and off. Sailing into wind is very effective - the kicking strap holds the boom down to keep a curve on the mast even in gentle winds, and this keeps the sail shape optimal. The leeboard prevents sideways drift, so that the boat sails forward and at 45 degrees to the wind. The boom is quite a bit above head height, so you don't get hit on the head if the sail suddenly jibes across.

    I don't have outriggers but I am building some sponsons from square gutter-downpipe which will position alongside the gunnels and should prevent capsizes, and give a seat to sit on out over the side to counteract heel.

    The full set cost nearly as much as the canoe, but it's worth every penny.

    Best Wishes

    Frank
    Last edited by Windblown; 14th-January-2009 at 09:28 PM. Reason: incipient dyslexia
    The impossible we do at once - miracles take a little longer!

  15. #15
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    Default Solway Dory rig

    To see my Solway Dory rig in action in challenging circumstances have a look at the Blog of the Open Canoe Sailing Group sail down Windermere in October:
    http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=13660

    Best Wishes

    Frank
    The impossible we do at once - miracles take a little longer!

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