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Thread: Assorted Observations

  1. #1
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    Default Assorted Observations

    Was out on a club paddle to a pub last night - first long paddle for a few weeks. 15 opens and numerous Kayaks. The pub couldn't cope with the unexpected arrival of about 60 persons by boat.

    My boat was slow - had trouble keeping up with the group. Either I'm not used to the haul, or I've bought a barge when I could do with a boat that is easier to paddle long distances. Only time will tell. Something to watch out for when I can afford a boat of choice.

    It was interesting to observe the difference between Kayaks and Canoes in terms of their effect on the water. We were with a lot of kayaks and they leave quite a choppy wake, something to do with the paddle action and the size and shape of the boat. Canoe wakes are much smoother, and our paddles tend to generate swirls in the water.

    Kayakers can capsize a canoe. A group of the Kayakers were chasing a friend of theirs in an Open but it wasn't until they managed to get either side of an open they were able to turn it over. The technique was one used to rescue an unconscious capsized Kayaker. One lifts and the other pushes down, so it only takes two of them. You have been warned!

    It takes ages to empty a swamped boat. I helped bail the righted boat. It takes a long time. I've been thinking of how to speed it up and think a siphon pump might automate the process, if it will work. I'll let you know when I've tried.

    Finally a summer evenings paddle is really relaxing - look forward to more.
    Brevan
    Brevan,
    The truth (about Rights of Navigation) is out there
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  2. #2
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    Big Boats need BIG bailers!
    If it wasn't for the rain in our lives there would be no rivers. X 2

  3. #3
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    I would have thought a charitable kayaker could have done an end over end emptying of the canoe. Only fair if they helped capsize it but as you say it does take a long time to empty.
    John

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenboats1
    Big Boats need BIG bailers!
    no. smaller and faster works better for me. though i do end up spraying everyone with water.
    Rogue

  5. #5
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    Default Emptying a canoe

    Three people in two opens had enough trouble lifting one end of the boat to help drain it. The Kayakers did offer help to be fair but I'm not sure how much help they could have given. I estimate my boat (at 16 foot or 4.9 Metres length) has a capacity of at least 300 litres (possibly more). That's 300+ kg of water when full which is a big lift. Once the other canoe was righted there was still a lot of water in it.

    My bailer is about 1.5 litre I reckon I need to supersize my bailer or get a more efficent means of emptying, hence my interest in a siphon pump.
    Brevan,
    The truth (about Rights of Navigation) is out there
    Romsey, Hampshire
    Twitter: BrevanM
    Follow my blog at http://riveraccessrights.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
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    I am sure others will explain this better but with the boat still upside down break the seal with the water and pull the end up over a canoe that is the right way up so you have a X shape with a right way up canoe on the water and a now empty upside down canoe over it. Turn the top canoe over and slide it back into the water empty.
    John

  7. #7
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    the curl has always worked better for me, just keep it slow and steady. Couldnt do it from a kayak tho!

  8. #8
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    I find it easier if the canoe being rescued is turned onto its side(no air lock to break) Also this highlights the need for air bags - bigger bags = less water.
    Phil

  9. #9
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    A couple of "friends" in kayaks thought tipping me from my charles river would be a laugh, to prevent it was easy,

    Pick one of the kayakers as they approach grab his BA by the shoulder with your other hand grab the release strap for his deck, don't pull it of just yet,

    Now lean on his boat, at this point the kayaker will usually change his mind,

    If he doesn't pop his deck,

    if he's still persistant, Jump!,(over his front deck) as you still have hold of his BA he's coming over, and with no deck on, no point in rolling,

    Ok so your in the water too, but your boat will probably be upright, and if you did nothing you'd still be wet.
    JD
    He knows not where he's going, For the ocean will decide, It's not the destination, It's the glory of the ride

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevan


    It takes ages to empty a swamped boat. I helped bail the righted boat. It takes a long time. I've been thinking of how to speed it up and think a siphon pump might automate the process, if it will work. I'll let you know when I've tried.

    Finally a summer evenings paddle is really relaxing - look forward to more.
    Brevan
    We have inherited a circa 1900 brass bilge pump that works something like a hand tire pump. Easier, but no faster. Good thing to keep an eye for in antique or junk shops. Not something you'd want on a canoe trip.
    The perfect canoe -
    Like a leaf on the water

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemec
    A couple of "friends" in kayaks thought tipping me from my charles river would be a laugh, to prevent it was easy.
    I recall a few years back with Geisha, chatting to some kayakers off one of the local beaches, when one of the kayakers found that he was very nearly rolled by a turning canoe, simply because of the size and volume difference in the boats. He was in close, and as the canoe turned, it just started to ride up over his hull.

    I'm especially careful around kayaks now, simply because we are so much bigger.

  12. #12
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    I should maybe have pointed out, what followed the above quote, was with two good friends, that I knew could look after themselves, (and they were trying to tip me in)

    Our boats are big, and to kayakers that aren't used to being around them can be quite frightening. And we can physically push a kayak over unintentionally.

    and it helps that people that know me, know I don't mind swimming (unless it's very cold) and if I say "if I go in, your coming with me" they either let go or get wet!

    I really should think before typing...
    JD
    He knows not where he's going, For the ocean will decide, It's not the destination, It's the glory of the ride

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemec
    I should maybe have pointed out, what followed the above quote, was with two good friends, that I knew could look after themselves, (and they were trying to tip me in)

    Our boats are big, and to kayakers that aren't used to being around them can be quite frightening. And we can physically push a kayak over unintentionally.

    and it helps that people that know me, know I don't mind swimming (unless it's very cold) and if I say "if I go in, your coming with me" they either let go or get wet!

    I really should think before typing...
    No worries, I think my post probably did you no favours tho' - I kinda guessed that they were mates of yours, and a bit of horseplay is great on the water (but only where it's safe of course)...

    I'd agree with the "one in - all in" thing, it's only fair after all !

    I think the bit about kayakers not being used to the size of our boats was what had happened on the occasion I mentioned.

    We were chatting to a party of kayakers on Sunday as we all got out on the same pontoon, and even their touring boats looked really scarily small now against our boats. We were out of the water by the time they got in, but the difference on land was quite stiking, in the water it would have been more so, especially as there were a couple of boats that looked to have quite low volumes.

    At least they found the super-tanker references amusing as I held them up trying to get off the pontoon ... whilst they just skipped past, with their boat just slung over their shoulder.

  14. #14
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    I get the "Tanker" label when we are out with the kayakers and have often thought of taking a set of air horns with me just for a laugh.

    But on a more serious note, the canoe comes in handy on whitewater river trips when our club has beginners in kayaks with us. It is so much easier to get ashore in an emergency from the canoe. I can set up a throw line from the bank in seconds, where the kayaking instructors would be struggling to find a place to land. Also some of the beginners find it comforting to hang on to the side of a larger craft that appears to be more stable than another kayak especially if they've just taken a swim.
    Big Al.

    Only when the last tree has died
    and the last river been poisoned
    and the last fish been caught
    will we realise we cannot eat money.
    ~Cree Indian Proverb

  15. #15
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    As a more drastic action you can haul a kayak right across the centre of your canoe - it acts as an outrigger and with the kayaker perched up high they are completely at your mercy. Watch your back with this one though!!!!!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre girard
    We have inherited a circa 1900 brass bilge pump that works something like a hand tire pump. Easier, but no faster. Good thing to keep an eye for in antique or junk shops. Not something you'd want on a canoe trip.

    'there is no better means of emptying a boat of water than a frightened man with a bucket'
    Obscured by Clouds

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemec
    and with no deck on, no point in rolling.
    Well, I was forced(honest) to paddle a 'yak this weekend at Holme Pierrepont, Nottingham . My deck came off but I still rolled and was able
    to paddle to safely full of water.

    Almost anything is better than swimming in the Trent .

    the whole thing was captured on video. I flipped over like it was my first day in a boat.

    Edit: safly again! i always get that wrong
    Last edited by Rogue; 6th-June-2006 at 06:39 PM.
    Rogue

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemec
    I really should think before typing...
    Stll holds true,

    I agree with the bit about the Trent, Did some rafting there about 12 years ago, sick for a week ( yes I jumped in)

    4 years ago I was lucky enough to put my back out at Teeside, so I couldn't paddle HPP the next day

    Do we get to see the vid? ducks for cover
    JD
    He knows not where he's going, For the ocean will decide, It's not the destination, It's the glory of the ride

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil
    I find it easier if the canoe being rescued is turned onto its side(no air lock to break) Also this highlights the need for air bags - bigger bags = less water.
    Phil
    Sometimes it's awkward to empty a boat on it's side. I break the airlock by pulling the bow (or stern) line over my gunnel & holding tight while tilting my boat towards the capsized boat. I keep holding tight (or wrap around the carry yoke), straighten my canoe and the air lock on the capsiazed canoe is broken with little effort.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alastair Seagroatt
    Sometimes it's awkward to empty a boat on it's side. I break the airlock by pulling the bow (or stern) line over my gunnel & holding tight while tilting my boat towards the capsized boat. I keep holding tight (or wrap around the carry yoke), straighten my canoe and the air lock on the capsiazed canoe is broken with little effort.
    As I recall (haven't had to do this for a while), we get the sunken canoe on its side, to break suction, and the bow (or stern) up on the gunwale of the unsunken upright canoe. We then give it a quarter turn so the open side is down and pull it across the gunwales of the upright canoe, draining the water. Give it a half turn, so it is upright, and slide it back in the water.
    The perfect canoe -
    Like a leaf on the water

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